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Re: [indica-users] Water damage

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  • Rajiv
    Hi Dev, Sorry about that. Did you tried to start the car while stalled in the middle of deep water? How do they calculated engine life. I doubt if it is
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 1, 2007
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      Hi Dev,

      Sorry about that. Did you tried to start the car while stalled in the
      middle of deep water?

      How do they calculated engine life. I doubt if it is evaluated separately?.

      Cheers...
      Rajiv


      Dev Abhishek wrote:
      >
      > Folks,
      >
      > I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I was
      > driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached a
      > railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck traffic.
      > I did realise that there was some water collected on the carriageway,
      > but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.
      >
      > As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st gear
      > and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust clear
      > of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine through
      > the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.
      >
      > With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the car
      > to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and I was
      > able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.
      >
      > There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd kms, and
      > the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners, block,
      > piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition except for
      > rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will *not* pay for any
      > engine components - they claim the engine is close to end of life
      > anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine would have been
      > good for another 100K. I will take this up later with the insurance
      > ombudsman.
      >
      > The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of you
      > who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold air
      > intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level for a
      > person of average height). Water levels above that are bound to cause
      > engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.
      >
      > And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water in the
      > cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any attempt
      > to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause structural
      > damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).
      >
      > I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where the
      > air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level, never
      > had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing. Unfortunately,
      > that didn't work for the Indica.
      >
      > Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy water.
      > I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in the body
      > were plugged with rubber stops.
      >
      > For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars of
      > every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto, a
      > Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!
      >
      > Dev
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
      > A Smarter Inbox.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Dev Abhishek
      Folks, I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I was driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached a railway
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 1 1:21 AM
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        Folks,

        I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I was driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached a railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck traffic. I did realise that there was some water collected on the carriageway, but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.

        As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st gear and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust clear of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine through the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.

        With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the car to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and I was able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.

        There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd kms, and the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners, block, piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition except for rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will *not* pay for any engine components - they claim the engine is close to end of life anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine would have been good for another 100K. I will take this up later with the insurance ombudsman.

        The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of you who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold air intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level for a person of average height). Water levels above that are bound to cause engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.

        And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water in the cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any attempt to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause structural damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).

        I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where the air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level, never had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing. Unfortunately, that didn't work for the Indica.

        Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy water. I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in the body were plugged with rubber stops.

        For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars of every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto, a Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!

        Dev




        ---------------------------------
        Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
        A Smarter Inbox.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • abhay mantrawadi
        Hi RK for front bumper avg price for new piece should not exceed 3500 to 3800 [Mumbai price - dec2007- 3431 incl tax - -source my friend changed at this price]
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 1 9:29 PM
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          Hi RK
          for front bumper avg price for new piece should not exceed 3500 to 3800
          [Mumbai price - dec2007- 3431 incl tax - -source my friend changed at this price]
          i have taken into consideration little bit more price for Pune
          Painting will cost this much for bumper?
          regards
          Abhay



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: RK <x.techie@...>
          To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, 2 April, 2008 9:43:23 PM
          Subject: RE: [indica-users] Need help with B.Bhandari pricing.

          Hi Abhay,

          The bumper price include both of the new piece and painting it. Hmmm, on the
          other hand how much were you expecting it? Let me know.

          ~RK

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
          From: indica-users@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:indica-users@ yahoogroups. com] On
          Behalf Of abhay mantrawadi
          Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:50 PM
          To: indica-users@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [indica-users] Need help with B.Bhandari pricing.

          Hi RK
          bumper price seems to be little expensive
          bonnet dent price - depends on extend of dent -
          if you are in Pune and doing work at b u bhandari - wakdewadi - on
          pune-mumbai rd then just meet there
          mr Atul kachre - 9922925382 or Mr Bhushan Naik
          I you are doing work at B u bhandari wakad - then also you can try these
          guyes - these people will help you.
          As far as insurance is concerned - it totally depend on how they will
          submitt the case to insurance
          regards
          Abhay
          9850814508

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: RK <x.techie@gmail. com>
          To: indica-users@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Tuesday, 1 April, 2008 9:53:58 PM
          Subject: [indica-users] Need help with B.Bhandari pricing.

          Folks,

          Some time back had been a bad experience with my car on the road behind Pune
          railway station, an auto out of nowhere in the wrong direction decided to
          jump in front of me, I hit him (even though will full brakes) and damage
          done to the cars, so the damage and prices are as per bellow:

          1. Change the bumper and paint them: 6.5k
          2. Change the right hand side head lamp: 2.2k
          3. Bonnet dent and painting: 3.5k
          4. Other small scratch painting: 1.5k

          Comes to about 13.7k, as can be seen bumper and the bonnet took the hit. So
          here is the advice I am going to need from you:

          1. Prices justified?
          2. Any combination that I can try? That is: get one thing done from here and
          other from somewhere else.
          3. If I go for insurance how much will be paid by them?

          Yup am in Pune, I didn't go to Balaji as am not sure about the painting at
          there place. Any other recommendations?

          Thanks in advance!

          ~RK

          Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Go to
          http://in.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Prashant Gunjal
          Hi RK, I got a denting n painting job done for the complete left side of my indica (fender+both left doors+portion around the fuel cap) from BUB Wakad in Nov
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 2 6:21 AM
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            Hi RK,
            I got a denting n painting job done for the complete left side of my
            indica (fender+both left doors+portion around the fuel cap) from BUB
            Wakad in Nov 07, under insurance. Here is my experience and thoughts
            on the questions you raised -

            1) Typically, the insu co. pays 100% of labor charges and a
            percentage for parts. This may vary from co to co.

            For eg. when my side turn indicator lamp was replaced (on the left
            fender), they paid 50% of the price charged by BUB. For the denting
            and painting, they paid 100% of all labor charges. All payment was
            made as a reimbursement as BUB did not have a tie-up with my insurer
            (United India). If it was some other insu co like Bajaj Alllianz,
            ICICI etc then it could have been cash less.

            2) I felt that the way BUB handled the denting/painting cost was a
            little fishy. All along they were telling me that they don't jack up
            the quote and that their quote is always near to reality. They gave
            me an estimate. The surveyor approved an amount lower than the quote.
            BUB agreed to do the job for the amount approved by the surveyor.
            They later told me that they generally give a higher figure expecting
            the surveyor to reduce. In this case the overall reduction was
            approx. 25%!!

            3) The most disgusting part was that, a couple of weeks back, around
            the first half of March 08, I observed that the paint had come off in
            some places. An area of around 4 - 5 sq cms on the door, had nicks
            where the paint had come off. I understand that this could have
            happened if something had scratched the door, but, the original paint
            had stayed well for 5 yrs and I had not done anything drastic over
            the past few months so I think this should not have happened so fast.
            I think, in order to match the amount given by the surveyor, BUB
            Wakad has done an incomplete job of painting, like applying lesser no
            of coats, or using lower quality paint etc. I would not suggest them
            for a paint job.

            In effect, by matching the amount quoted by the surveyor, they are
            giving a false sense of comfort to the customer, which is short
            lived. The customer has to come back to get a touch-up done again.

            4) I later understood from the insu co that I could have got the job
            done from any garage, i.e. it was not necessary for me to use a
            authorised dealer.

            5) The insu agent typically knows of places where denting/painting
            work is done, whose bills are accepted by the insu co. Once you get
            these names, you can check whether anyone has any feedback about them.

            6) The insu co is ok if you submit multiple bills from multiple shops
            for the repairs. Not necessary that all is done at one place. So, you
            can get spare parts in Nana peth. Generally, inspite of being
            original, these would cost less by approx. 20 - 30% as compared to
            the prices charged by BUB or Pandit Auto. If you go in for duplicate,
            they would cost even lower. But for bumper, due to safety reasons, it
            is better to go in for an original.

            Hope this is useful.

            Regards,
            Prashant Gunjal
            Cell-9890119505


            --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "RK" <x.techie@...> wrote:
            >
            > Folks,
            >
            > Some time back had been a bad experience with my car on the road
            behind Pune
            > railway station, an auto out of nowhere in the wrong direction
            decided to
            > jump in front of me, I hit him (even though will full brakes) and
            damage
            > done to the cars, so the damage and prices are as per bellow:
            >
            > 1. Change the bumper and paint them: 6.5k
            > 2. Change the right hand side head lamp: 2.2k
            > 3. Bonnet dent and painting: 3.5k
            > 4. Other small scratch painting: 1.5k
            >
            > Comes to about 13.7k, as can be seen bumper and the bonnet took the
            hit. So
            > here is the advice I am going to need from you:
            >
            > 1. Prices justified?
            > 2. Any combination that I can try? That is: get one thing done from
            here and
            > other from somewhere else.
            > 3. If I go for insurance how much will be paid by them?
            >
            > Yup am in Pune, I didn't go to Balaji as am not sure about the
            painting at
            > there place. Any other recommendations?
            >
            > Thanks in advance!
            >
            > ~RK
            >
          • RK
            Hi Abhay, The bumper price include both of the new piece and painting it. Hmmm, on the other hand how much were you expecting it? Let me know. ~RK
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 2 9:13 AM
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              Hi Abhay,

              The bumper price include both of the new piece and painting it. Hmmm, on the
              other hand how much were you expecting it? Let me know.

              ~RK

              ________________________________________
              From: indica-users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:indica-users@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of abhay mantrawadi
              Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:50 PM
              To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [indica-users] Need help with B.Bhandari pricing.

              Hi RK
              bumper price seems to be little expensive
              bonnet dent price - depends on extend of dent -
              if you are in Pune and doing work at b u bhandari - wakdewadi - on
              pune-mumbai rd then just meet there
              mr Atul kachre - 9922925382 or Mr Bhushan Naik
              I you are doing work at B u bhandari wakad - then also you can try these
              guyes - these people will help you.
              As far as insurance is concerned - it totally depend on how they will
              submitt the case to insurance
              regards
              Abhay
              9850814508


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: RK <x.techie@...>
              To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, 1 April, 2008 9:53:58 PM
              Subject: [indica-users] Need help with B.Bhandari pricing.

              Folks,

              Some time back had been a bad experience with my car on the road behind Pune
              railway station, an auto out of nowhere in the wrong direction decided to
              jump in front of me, I hit him (even though will full brakes) and damage
              done to the cars, so the damage and prices are as per bellow:

              1. Change the bumper and paint them: 6.5k
              2. Change the right hand side head lamp: 2.2k
              3. Bonnet dent and painting: 3.5k
              4. Other small scratch painting: 1.5k

              Comes to about 13.7k, as can be seen bumper and the bonnet took the hit. So
              here is the advice I am going to need from you:

              1. Prices justified?
              2. Any combination that I can try? That is: get one thing done from here and
              other from somewhere else.
              3. If I go for insurance how much will be paid by them?

              Yup am in Pune, I didn't go to Balaji as am not sure about the painting at
              there place. Any other recommendations?

              Thanks in advance!

              ~RK

              Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Go to
              http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • stmani73
              Hi Dev, Very unfortunate indeed. It is at these times I tend to believe that there is something called luck in this world. Thanks for the tips. This reminds
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 3 9:22 PM
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                Hi Dev,

                Very unfortunate indeed. It is at these times I tend to believe that
                there is something called luck in this world.

                Thanks for the tips. This reminds me of two things.

                1. I saw a tractor completely immersed in water and still happily
                pulling the load of people and the driver is driving it with his legs
                inside the water and only the steering wheel and his upper body
                visible above it. The air intake was also visible above water like a
                periscope out of a submarine.

                2. I had to wade through more than knee deep water in Bannerughatta
                road some five years back - this is the time when IIMB guys had
                staged an agitation against the pathetic road conditions around the
                institute. I was on my bike though at that time and I thought I can
                swim through as the intake was below the seat and water level was
                some 10 to 15 cms below that. I put the bike in first gear and went
                for few meters inside the water after that the engine stopped. I had
                to push it beyond that. What I forgot was the fact that water can
                enter in through the exhaust. Luckily for me the bike was fine after
                a while as the water dried off and engine warmed up a bit.

                My question is what kind of problem can crop up if in case I wade
                through water and water enters through the exhaust and not the air
                intake. Will it be as simple as waiting for the water to just dry
                off as in the case of a bike?

                Regards
                Thiru
                (DLX, 54000 kms, 16.5 kmpl blr city)



                --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, Dev Abhishek <devabhishek@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Folks,
                >
                > I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I
                was driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached
                a railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck
                traffic. I did realise that there was some water collected on the
                carriageway, but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.
                >
                > As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st
                gear and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust
                clear of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine
                through the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.
                >
                > With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the
                car to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and
                I was able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.
                >
                > There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd kms,
                and the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners,
                block, piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition
                except for rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will
                *not* pay for any engine components - they claim the engine is close
                to end of life anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine
                would have been good for another 100K. I will take this up later
                with the insurance ombudsman.
                >
                > The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of
                you who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold
                air intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level
                for a person of average height). Water levels above that are bound
                to cause engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.
                >
                > And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water in
                the cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any
                attempt to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause
                structural damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).
                >
                > I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where
                the air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level,
                never had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing.
                Unfortunately, that didn't work for the Indica.
                >
                > Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy
                water. I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in
                the body were plugged with rubber stops.
                >
                > For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars
                of every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto,
                a Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!
                >
                > Dev
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
                > A Smarter Inbox.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Damodar Kamath
                Hi, ... Guess this would stop the engine too as the back pressure would be too high, and with the exhaust pipe being horizontally mounted, it might make it
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 3 9:39 PM
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                  Hi,

                  My attempt at answering the q below:
                  >> My question is what kind of problem can crop up if in case I wade
                  >> through water and water enters through the exhaust and not the air
                  >> intake.
                  Guess this would stop the engine too as the back pressure would be too high, and with the exhaust pipe being horizontally mounted, it might make it difficult to drain the water out.
                  Waiting to hear from the experts :)

                  Regards,
                  Damodar
                  [ DLE-V2, BS-II, Mar'01, 41.9K kms
                  M800, BS-I, Jun'04, 34.1K kms ]


                  stmani73 <stmani73@...> wrote: Hi Dev,

                  Very unfortunate indeed. It is at these times I tend to believe that
                  there is something called luck in this world.

                  Thanks for the tips. This reminds me of two things.

                  1. I saw a tractor completely immersed in water and still happily
                  pulling the load of people and the driver is driving it with his legs
                  inside the water and only the steering wheel and his upper body
                  visible above it. The air intake was also visible above water like a
                  periscope out of a submarine.

                  2. I had to wade through more than knee deep water in Bannerughatta
                  road some five years back - this is the time when IIMB guys had
                  staged an agitation against the pathetic road conditions around the
                  institute. I was on my bike though at that time and I thought I can
                  swim through as the intake was below the seat and water level was
                  some 10 to 15 cms below that. I put the bike in first gear and went
                  for few meters inside the water after that the engine stopped. I had
                  to push it beyond that. What I forgot was the fact that water can
                  enter in through the exhaust. Luckily for me the bike was fine after
                  a while as the water dried off and engine warmed up a bit.

                  My question is what kind of problem can crop up if in case I wade
                  through water and water enters through the exhaust and not the air
                  intake. Will it be as simple as waiting for the water to just dry
                  off as in the case of a bike?

                  Regards
                  Thiru
                  (DLX, 54000 kms, 16.5 kmpl blr city)

                  --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, Dev Abhishek <devabhishek@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Folks,
                  >
                  > I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I
                  was driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached
                  a railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck
                  traffic. I did realise that there was some water collected on the
                  carriageway, but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.
                  >
                  > As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st
                  gear and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust
                  clear of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine
                  through the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.
                  >
                  > With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the
                  car to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and
                  I was able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.
                  >
                  > There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd kms,
                  and the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners,
                  block, piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition
                  except for rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will
                  *not* pay for any engine components - they claim the engine is close
                  to end of life anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine
                  would have been good for another 100K. I will take this up later
                  with the insurance ombudsman.
                  >
                  > The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of
                  you who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold
                  air intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level
                  for a person of average height). Water levels above that are bound
                  to cause engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.
                  >
                  > And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water in
                  the cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any
                  attempt to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause
                  structural damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).
                  >
                  > I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where
                  the air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level,
                  never had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing.
                  Unfortunately, that didn't work for the Indica.
                  >
                  > Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy
                  water. I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in
                  the body were plugged with rubber stops.
                  >
                  > For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars
                  of every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto,
                  a Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!
                  >
                  > Dev
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
                  > A Smarter Inbox.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






                  ---------------------------------
                  You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • stmani73
                  Hi Rajiv and others, In my opinion it is not easy to get a claim from insurance company for a car that is 5 years old or has run for over 75000 kms. We may
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 3 9:43 PM
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                    Hi Rajiv and others,

                    In my opinion it is not easy to get a claim from insurance company
                    for a car that is 5 years old or has run for over 75000 kms. We may
                    have to employ negotiation tactics to get the money. This is one of
                    the reasons I am thinking of going for third party coverage alone
                    from the next year onwards. I don't know if this is feasible or not.

                    Regards
                    Thiru


                    --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, Rajiv <rajiv.forums@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Dev,
                    >
                    > Sorry about that. Did you tried to start the car while stalled in
                    the
                    > middle of deep water?
                    >
                    > How do they calculated engine life. I doubt if it is evaluated
                    separately?.
                    >
                    > Cheers...
                    > Rajiv
                    >
                    >
                    > Dev Abhishek wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Folks,
                    > >
                    > > I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I
                    was
                    > > driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached a
                    > > railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck
                    traffic.
                    > > I did realise that there was some water collected on the
                    carriageway,
                    > > but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.
                    > >
                    > > As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st
                    gear
                    > > and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust
                    clear
                    > > of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine
                    through
                    > > the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.
                    > >
                    > > With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the
                    car
                    > > to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and I
                    was
                    > > able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.
                    > >
                    > > There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd
                    kms, and
                    > > the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners,
                    block,
                    > > piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition
                    except for
                    > > rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will *not* pay
                    for any
                    > > engine components - they claim the engine is close to end of life
                    > > anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine would have
                    been
                    > > good for another 100K. I will take this up later with the
                    insurance
                    > > ombudsman.
                    > >
                    > > The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of
                    you
                    > > who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold
                    air
                    > > intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level
                    for a
                    > > person of average height). Water levels above that are bound to
                    cause
                    > > engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.
                    > >
                    > > And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water
                    in the
                    > > cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any
                    attempt
                    > > to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause structural
                    > > damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).
                    > >
                    > > I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where
                    the
                    > > air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level,
                    never
                    > > had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing.
                    Unfortunately,
                    > > that didn't work for the Indica.
                    > >
                    > > Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy
                    water.
                    > > I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in the
                    body
                    > > were plugged with rubber stops.
                    > >
                    > > For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars
                    of
                    > > every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto,
                    a
                    > > Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!
                    > >
                    > > Dev
                    > >
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
                    > > A Smarter Inbox.
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Dev Abhishek
                    Hi Thiru, I m assuming you had a four stroke bike? Obviously, the only time water could possibly enter through the exhaust is when the exhaust valve is open.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 10 1:05 AM
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                      Hi Thiru,

                      I'm assuming you had a four stroke bike?

                      Obviously, the only time water could possibly enter through the exhaust is when the exhaust valve is open. With a running engine, there would be exhaust pressure at this time. So, water would not enter the engine unless water pressure is higher than exhaust pressure, a somewhat unlikely event with an engine racing at around 2-3k rpm.

                      Now, assuming that the engine is stopped, exhaust valve open, and the piston is just above bottom and heading up (that's when you have volume between piston and head) - water can creep in. But at the next crank, this water would be expelled through the still open exhaust valve, and damage would be self-limiting.

                      Not so when water is drawn through the intake :-( Both valves would close on subsequent compression stroke and engine would work against water which is incompressible.

                      Experts can comment - but I'd say don't wait for it to dry. Without turning on the key (so that car doesn't get fuelled), try very gently pushing the car in third or even 4th gear so any water in the cylinder is pushed out. But be absolutely sure that water has entered only through exhaust and not through intake. This can be ascertained by inspecting the air-filter. It should not be wet.

                      Cheers,
                      Dev


                      stmani73 <stmani73@...> wrote: Hi Dev,

                      Very unfortunate indeed. It is at these times I tend to believe that
                      there is something called luck in this world.

                      Thanks for the tips. This reminds me of two things.

                      1. I saw a tractor completely immersed in water and still happily
                      pulling the load of people and the driver is driving it with his legs
                      inside the water and only the steering wheel and his upper body
                      visible above it. The air intake was also visible above water like a
                      periscope out of a submarine.

                      2. I had to wade through more than knee deep water in Bannerughatta
                      road some five years back - this is the time when IIMB guys had
                      staged an agitation against the pathetic road conditions around the
                      institute. I was on my bike though at that time and I thought I can
                      swim through as the intake was below the seat and water level was
                      some 10 to 15 cms below that. I put the bike in first gear and went
                      for few meters inside the water after that the engine stopped. I had
                      to push it beyond that. What I forgot was the fact that water can
                      enter in through the exhaust. Luckily for me the bike was fine after
                      a while as the water dried off and engine warmed up a bit.

                      My question is what kind of problem can crop up if in case I wade
                      through water and water enters through the exhaust and not the air
                      intake. Will it be as simple as waiting for the water to just dry
                      off as in the case of a bike?

                      Regards
                      Thiru
                      (DLX, 54000 kms, 16.5 kmpl blr city)

                      --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, Dev Abhishek <devabhishek@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Folks,
                      >
                      > I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I
                      was driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached
                      a railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck
                      traffic. I did realise that there was some water collected on the
                      carriageway, but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.
                      >
                      > As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st
                      gear and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust
                      clear of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine
                      through the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.
                      >
                      > With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the
                      car to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and
                      I was able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.
                      >
                      > There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd kms,
                      and the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners,
                      block, piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition
                      except for rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will
                      *not* pay for any engine components - they claim the engine is close
                      to end of life anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine
                      would have been good for another 100K. I will take this up later
                      with the insurance ombudsman.
                      >
                      > The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of
                      you who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold
                      air intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level
                      for a person of average height). Water levels above that are bound
                      to cause engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.
                      >
                      > And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water in
                      the cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any
                      attempt to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause
                      structural damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).
                      >
                      > I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where
                      the air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level,
                      never had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing.
                      Unfortunately, that didn't work for the Indica.
                      >
                      > Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy
                      water. I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in
                      the body were plugged with rubber stops.
                      >
                      > For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars
                      of every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto,
                      a Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!
                      >
                      > Dev
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
                      > A Smarter Inbox.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >






                      ---------------------------------
                      Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dev Abhishek
                      Hi Thiru, Rajiv, sorry for the late reply folks, I was out of town with very limited time to follow up on personal email. Rajiv, I didn t try to start the car
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 10 1:12 AM
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                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Thiru, Rajiv,

                        sorry for the late reply folks, I was out of town with very limited time to follow up on personal email.

                        Rajiv, I didn't try to start the car immediately. I did try after a 15 minutes or so, hoping that water would have crept out (believing it to have entered through the exhaust). I didn't really have bent con-rods, they were fine. Damage was from all the rust.

                        I'm not sure how they calculate engine life - apparently, they believe that engine components depreciate faster than other metals parts. For certain accident damage parts in an earlier claim, I was able to get about 40% of the value for replaced parts for a 7 year old car. But I guess the engine uses a different equation.

                        The good news is that engines will fetch a better price in the second hand market, much more than the value of scrap metal. So, this whole thing is somewhat counter-intuitive.

                        Thiru - insurance still helps as all of the labour is paid for in full. Most accident damage claims it's the labour costs that dominate. Of course, this case is an exception, since engine components are relatively expensive.

                        Cheers,
                        Dev

                        stmani73 <stmani73@...> wrote: Hi Rajiv and others,

                        In my opinion it is not easy to get a claim from insurance company
                        for a car that is 5 years old or has run for over 75000 kms. We may
                        have to employ negotiation tactics to get the money. This is one of
                        the reasons I am thinking of going for third party coverage alone
                        from the next year onwards. I don't know if this is feasible or not.

                        Regards
                        Thiru

                        --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, Rajiv <rajiv.forums@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Dev,
                        >
                        > Sorry about that. Did you tried to start the car while stalled in
                        the
                        > middle of deep water?
                        >
                        > How do they calculated engine life. I doubt if it is evaluated
                        separately?.
                        >
                        > Cheers...
                        > Rajiv
                        >
                        >
                        > Dev Abhishek wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Folks,
                        > >
                        > > I had an unfortunate experience with my DLE about 5 days back. I
                        was
                        > > driving a little past midnight in lashing rain. As I approached a
                        > > railway underpass, I was completely unsighted by heavy truck
                        traffic.
                        > > I did realise that there was some water collected on the
                        carriageway,
                        > > but before I knew it, I was in waist deep water.
                        > >
                        > > As per the best practice in this scenario, I dropped down to 1st
                        gear
                        > > and raced the engine to about 1500-2000 rpm to keep the exhaust
                        clear
                        > > of water. That wasn't good enough; water got into the engine
                        through
                        > > the air-filter and intake manifold, and the car stalled.
                        > >
                        > > With great difficulty, wading through the murky water I moved the
                        car
                        > > to the side and called for help. A towing service responded and I
                        was
                        > > able to move the car to Hi-Tech Auto, Rajajinagar.
                        > >
                        > > There's an insurance claim pending - the car has done 95K odd
                        kms, and
                        > > the engine had to be stripped open. Sad to say, the liners,
                        block,
                        > > piston, crankshaft - every component was in great condition
                        except for
                        > > rust marks from water damage. Insurance company will *not* pay
                        for any
                        > > engine components - they claim the engine is close to end of life
                        > > anyway. That is certainly not the case, the engine would have
                        been
                        > > good for another 100K. I will take this up later with the
                        insurance
                        > > ombudsman.
                        > >
                        > > The rains will start in full vigour in a few months. For those of
                        you
                        > > who face flooding in your commute, please beware that the cold
                        air
                        > > intake snorkel is about 2 feet from the ground (about knee level
                        for a
                        > > person of average height). Water levels above that are bound to
                        cause
                        > > engine damage, even if you do practice all precaution.
                        > >
                        > > And, if you do stall - *DO NOT* attempt to start the car. Water
                        in the
                        > > cylinder is incompressible and forms a hydrostatic lock. Any
                        attempt
                        > > to start the car (by pushing or otherwise) could cause structural
                        > > damage (bent con-rods, deformed crank-shaft).
                        > >
                        > > I have waded through higher levels of water with my Jeep, where
                        the
                        > > air-intake is located more than four feet above ground level,
                        never
                        > > had a problem as long as the engine was kept racing.
                        Unfortunately,
                        > > that didn't work for the Indica.
                        > >
                        > > Also, the interior of the car was completely flooded with muddy
                        water.
                        > > I don't know where that came from! I though all openings in the
                        body
                        > > were plugged with rubber stops.
                        > >
                        > > For what it's worth, the roadside was littered with stalled cars
                        of
                        > > every make and denomination - I could count two Indicas, an Alto,
                        a
                        > > Zen, an Ikon, and an SLK430!
                        > >
                        > > Dev
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
                        > > A Smarter Inbox.
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >






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