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Re: diesel or petrol car

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  • Hrishikesh Raghavan
    Hi, Here s me doing my stuck record performance! What about the extra Rs. 18000 that you pay up front for the diesel? Taking this into account along with all
    Message 1 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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      Hi,

      Here's me doing my 'stuck record' performance!

      What about the extra Rs. 18000 that you pay up front for the diesel?
      Taking this into account along with all your other assumptions, you
      will break even in 18 months. Even earlier if you happen to drive
      more.

      I'm not trying to add to your confusion - just supplying more data :-
      )

      Cheers,
      Hrishi
      LSi, March 2003, 26143 km, 11 kmpl, Chennai TN 07 AA 1669

      --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "Jaswinder Singh"
      <Jaswinder.Singh@i...> wrote:
      > Let us assume the following:-
      > 1) Car running of about 800 Kms a month.
      > 2) Mileage given by a Petrol car = 12 Km / litre and Average
      mileage given by a Diesel car = 16 Km / litre.
      > 3) By next year (2005 end) Petrol will cost about Rs. 45 per litre
      while Diesel will cost about Rs. 40 per litre. (Diesel price will
      increase MORE than Petrol price).
      >
      > Amount of fuel required for a Petrol car will be 800/12 = approx.
      67 litres.
      > Therefore cost of fuel per month for a Petrol car will be 67 * 45
      = 3000 Rs. (approx.)
      >
      > Similarly, Amount of fuel required for a Diesel car will be 800/16
      = 50 litres.
      > Therefore cost of fuel per month for a Diesel car will be 50 * 40
      = 2000 Rs. (approx.)
      >
      > This shows that even by using a car for as less as 800 Kms a
      month, a Diesel car can save us Rs. 1000/- a month i.e. Rs. 12000/-
      a year.
      >
      > In the above calculations, I have assumed a very nominal mileage
      of 16 Kms per litre for a diesel car and also assumed Diesel cost to
      be Rs. 45 per litre (i.e. just a difference of just Rs. 5/- wrt
      Petrol cost). If the car gives a mileage of more than 16 Km/litre OR
      the difference in petrol and diesel cost is more than Rs. 5/litre,
      then the savings will be more than the calculated amount of Rs.
      1000/- a month.
      >
      > Now, I really do not think that Maintenance cost of Indica DLS
      will be more than 12000/- Rs. per annum wrt a Petrol car. Hence DLS
      seems to be a good buy even at lower expected running.
      >
      > Please let me know if there is any mistake in these calculations /
      my assumptions. For me, it is End of all Arguments.
      >
      > Regards
      > Jaswinder Singh
    • Jaswinder Singh
      No Hrishi, Indica Petrol is out of question because of it s lowest mileage and not-so-good performance and reliability vis-a-vis Santro. The choice boils down
      Message 2 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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        No Hrishi,
        Indica Petrol is out of question because of it's lowest mileage and not-so-good performance and reliability vis-a-vis Santro.

        The choice boils down the following models having AC and Power Steering:-
        1) Indica DLS (Pune On-Road Price: Rs. 3,84,000/-). Minus Discount: Rs. 7000/-
        2) Santro Zing XP (Pune On-Road Price: Rs. 3,85,000/-). Minus Discount Rs. 16000/-

        Hence the only additional upfront cost which we need to give for a Diesel car is Rs. 9000/- (minus additional finance costs).

        I have negotiated with dealers and finance guys of both Tata and Hyundai and got these rates. (Confirmed with at least 2 dealers each of TATA and HYUNDAI).
        For financing 3 lakh rupees for 3 years, EMI for Indica is Rs. 8880/- and EMI for Santro it's slightly higher Rs. 9030/-. Considering the horizon of 3 years (loan tenure), the net INTEREST to be shelled out for an Indica is Rs. 19680/- and for Santro, it's Rs. 25080/-.

        Hence the effective *upfront* costs for comparable Diesel car is Rs. 4000/- (Next-to-nothing for a car costing about 4 Lakhs). This is what went in my mind when I said that Diesel car will suffix even when running is as low as 800 Kms a month (or even lesser).

        Regards
        Jaswinder Singh

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Hrishikesh Raghavan [mailto:raghavan_h@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:33 PM
        To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [indica-users] Re: diesel or petrol car

        Hi,

        Here's me doing my 'stuck record' performance!

        What about the extra Rs. 18000 that you pay up front for the diesel?
        Taking this into account along with all your other assumptions, you
        will break even in 18 months. Even earlier if you happen to drive
        more.

        I'm not trying to add to your confusion - just supplying more data :-
        )

        Cheers,
        Hrishi
        LSi, March 2003, 26143 km, 11 kmpl, Chennai TN 07 AA 1669

        --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "Jaswinder Singh"
        <Jaswinder.Singh@i...> wrote:
        > Let us assume the following:-
        > 1) Car running of about 800 Kms a month.
        > 2) Mileage given by a Petrol car = 12 Km / litre and Average
        mileage given by a Diesel car = 16 Km / litre.
        > 3) By next year (2005 end) Petrol will cost about Rs. 45 per litre
        while Diesel will cost about Rs. 40 per litre. (Diesel price will
        increase MORE than Petrol price).
        >
        > Amount of fuel required for a Petrol car will be 800/12 = approx.
        67 litres.
        > Therefore cost of fuel per month for a Petrol car will be 67 * 45
        = 3000 Rs. (approx.)
        >
        > Similarly, Amount of fuel required for a Diesel car will be 800/16
        = 50 litres.
        > Therefore cost of fuel per month for a Diesel car will be 50 * 40
        = 2000 Rs. (approx.)
        >
        > This shows that even by using a car for as less as 800 Kms a
        month, a Diesel car can save us Rs. 1000/- a month i.e. Rs. 12000/-
        a year.
        >
        > In the above calculations, I have assumed a very nominal mileage
        of 16 Kms per litre for a diesel car and also assumed Diesel cost to
        be Rs. 45 per litre (i.e. just a difference of just Rs. 5/- wrt
        Petrol cost). If the car gives a mileage of more than 16 Km/litre OR
        the difference in petrol and diesel cost is more than Rs. 5/litre,
        then the savings will be more than the calculated amount of Rs.
        1000/- a month.
        >
        > Now, I really do not think that Maintenance cost of Indica DLS
        will be more than 12000/- Rs. per annum wrt a Petrol car. Hence DLS
        seems to be a good buy even at lower expected running.
        >
        > Please let me know if there is any mistake in these calculations /
        my assumptions. For me, it is End of all Arguments.
        >
        > Regards
        > Jaswinder Singh


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Hrishikesh Raghavan
        Hi Jaswinder, Just in case you misunderstood - I was never trying to market the Indica Petrol. I merely recommended it initially since you were in favour of
        Message 3 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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          Hi Jaswinder,

          Just in case you misunderstood - I was never trying to market the
          Indica Petrol. I merely 'recommended' it initially since you were in
          favour of the Indica.

          Of course, going by pure financials, the DLS makes the most sense to
          buy today.

          Cheers,
          Hrishi
          LSi, March 2003, 26143 km, 11 kmpl, Chennai TN 07 AA 1669

          --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "Jaswinder Singh"
          <Jaswinder.Singh@i...> wrote:
          > No Hrishi,
          > Indica Petrol is out of question because of it's lowest mileage
          and not-so-good performance and reliability vis-a-vis Santro.
          >
        • Umesh Awasarikar
          Details: Pune - Pali Ashtavinayak - Alibaag - Nagaaon Beach - Panvel - Pune. Distance Covered : 380 Km, Fuel Consumed: 20 litres Route: Mix of Expressway ,
          Message 4 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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            Details:

            Pune - Pali Ashtavinayak - Alibaag - Nagaaon Beach - Panvel - Pune.

            Distance Covered : 380 Km,

            Fuel Consumed: 20 litres

            Route: Mix of Expressway , Good State Highway, Horrible Interior Konkan roads (at times 2nd gear crawl for 3 kms). bit of a ghaat ... but nothing unachievable in 4th gear w/o AC. AC usage 45-50%

            Expressway Speeds avg: 100+ Kph Top Speed attained 137 Kph. dunno what this translates to actual. Ne body know what the actual to metered conversion is ?

            I guess I would have pulled out a better average if I had stuck to about 90 Kph on the expressway.

            Thanks

            Umesh Awasarikar.

            (Mar 04 DLS, 4500 Km, 16.6 Km pl, Pune)



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          • Arjun <Auto World India>
            yes, these financials make sense, as long as your car is in prime working condition. but if you happen to run into a tank full of adulterated diesel, and if
            Message 5 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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              yes, these financials make sense, as long as your car is in prime
              working condition. but if you happen to run into a tank full of
              adulterated diesel, and if the diesel pump starts to choke up, that's
              where the maintenance costs will begin to empty your wallet.

              besides, at marginal savings, also consider, whether you would enjoy
              driving a diesel indica or a petrol santro. also consider the
              equipment and quality of the car - for example, interior quality,
              switches and electricals are better on a santro as compared to the
              indica DLS. maybe the indica scores higher when it comes to interior
              space, but then the santro carries other additionals such a heater and
              a temperature control for the airconditioner.

              in my opinion, it is more fun to drive a petrol car, especially if you
              are owner driven, even if it is marginally more expensive to run.


              On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:42:22 -0000, Hrishikesh Raghavan
              <raghavan_h@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jaswinder,
              >
              > Just in case you misunderstood - I was never trying to market the
              > Indica Petrol. I merely 'recommended' it initially since you were in
              > favour of the Indica.
              >
              > Of course, going by pure financials, the DLS makes the most sense to
              > buy today.
              >
              >
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Hrishi
              > LSi, March 2003, 26143 km, 11 kmpl, Chennai TN 07 AA 1669
              >
              > --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "Jaswinder Singh"
              > <Jaswinder.Singh@i...> wrote:
              > > No Hrishi,
              > > Indica Petrol is out of question because of it's lowest mileage
              > and not-so-good performance and reliability vis-a-vis Santro.
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To UNsubscribe, send a blank email to the address:
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              >
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            • ARORA, MUNISH DEV (STSD)
              Guys, I have a little different feeling here. Diesel prices should not exceed the Petrol prices or even the price will not come this closer as you guys have
              Message 6 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                Guys,



                I have a little different feeling here. Diesel prices should not exceed
                the Petrol prices or even the price will not come this closer as you
                guys have been saying. I remember around 3+ years back, the price of
                diesel was Rs16-Rs17 in delhi and petrol was Rs 24-Rs26. Today in
                Bangalore the price of diesel is Rs 28-Rs29 and petrol is Rs 44 - Rs 46.
                So, I don't think the difference is going down.



                Also, think of it that diesel is not only being used by Tata guys
                (indica, indigo) but also by Trukers and buses. I feel those guys still
                use more diesel than passenger cars. If that is the case, then Govt
                cannot blindly keep increasing diesel prices to make them at par with
                petrol.



                Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices
                by Rs0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65



                My 2 cents,

                -munish



                ________________________________

                From: Jaswinder Singh [mailto:Jaswinder.Singh@...]
                Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:40 AM
                To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car



                Let us assume the following:-
                1) Car running of about 800 Kms a month.
                2) Mileage given by a Petrol car = 12 Km / litre and Average mileage
                given by a Diesel car = 16 Km / litre.
                3) By next year (2005 end) Petrol will cost about Rs. 45 per litre while
                Diesel will cost about Rs. 40 per litre. (Diesel price will increase
                MORE than Petrol price).

                Amount of fuel required for a Petrol car will be 800/12 = approx. 67
                litres.
                Therefore cost of fuel per month for a Petrol car will be 67 * 45 = 3000
                Rs. (approx.)

                Similarly, Amount of fuel required for a Diesel car will be 800/16 = 50
                litres.
                Therefore cost of fuel per month for a Diesel car will be 50 * 40 = 2000
                Rs. (approx.)

                This shows that even by using a car for as less as 800 Kms a month, a
                Diesel car can save us Rs. 1000/- a month i.e. Rs. 12000/- a year.

                In the above calculations, I have assumed a very nominal mileage of 16
                Kms per litre for a diesel car and also assumed Diesel cost to be Rs. 45
                per litre (i.e. just a difference of just Rs. 5/- wrt Petrol cost). If
                the car gives a mileage of more than 16 Km/litre OR the difference in
                petrol and diesel cost is more than Rs. 5/litre, then the savings will
                be more than the calculated amount of Rs. 1000/- a month.

                Now, I really do not think that Maintenance cost of Indica DLS will be
                more than 12000/- Rs. per annum wrt a Petrol car. Hence DLS seems to be
                a good buy even at lower expected running.

                Please let me know if there is any mistake in these calculations / my
                assumptions. For me, it is End of all Arguments.

                Regards
                Jaswinder Singh

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Arjun <Auto World India> [mailto:autoworld@...]
                Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 1:59 AM
                To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: AutoWorldIndia
                Subject: Re: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car


                I agree with you. I would though like to push the 1500 km per month
                mark to about 2000 km per month, as diesel costs are likely to go up
                as they have in the last two years - the gap between petrol and diesel
                is going to narrow down and the saving per unit of fuel will be
                minimal. The only evident advantage would be the fuel efficiency of
                diesel over petrol.


                On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:06:30 +0530, mehta anil
                <mehtaan@...> wrote:
                > Hi Jasvinder & all
                >
                > Diesel OR Petrol Car - the eternal million dollar question !!
                >
                > Financial Aspects
                > A diesel car is financially worth if your driving is ideally AT LEAST
                1000
                > to 1500 km pm. The more km pm, the merrier. Especially highway
                driving.
                >
                > Driving Comfort
                > A diesel car is a driver driven car, not a owner driven car, unless
                it is a
                > car like Indigo LS with power steering & turbo.
                >
                > Petrol or Diesel Costs
                > For your 500 to 800 km pm, buy a good petrol car and be done with it.
                > I had a Zen at a usage of 40 km per week day, say an average of 800
                to 1000
                > km pm. But puchased an Indica DLE when I was to shift from Delhi to
                Gurgaon,
                > with office at Noida - a usage of around 90 km per week day, say an
                average
                > of 2000 km pm.
                >
                > Which Petrol Car
                > Consider a hassle - free low maintenance car with good mileage. There
                is no
                > dearth of them.
                >
                > all the best.
                >
                > Regards
                >
                > Anil



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              • Pradeep Kumar
                Hi Dr. Rajesh, This is just a little curious question. Why shop for a car now when new Euro III norm comes into effect in April 2005? It is another matter if
                Message 7 of 30 , Nov 1, 2004
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                  Hi Dr. Rajesh,

                  This is just a little curious question. Why shop for a car now when
                  new Euro III norm comes into effect in April 2005? It is another
                  matter if you're looking for year-end discounts and, of course, the
                  Indigo family is Euro III compliant (at least going by their sales
                  spiel).

                  You're a veteran of cars. I thought you'd wait to see how the
                  competition spruces up for Euro III before you take a decision. I
                  guess most car makers would announce their new upgraded engines with
                  the new year. Frankly, I don't know how many cars need engine
                  upgradation for the new norms. It is pretty chaotic in this country
                  with very few car makers announcing their plans in advance or the new
                  engine configurations. It's pretty much a wait and watch situation.

                  With plenty of competition, I guess every car maker is cagey about
                  the details. Recently, when I went to Concorde, I asked them about
                  the turbo version of Indica, and when it is due. They just cold
                  shouldered me. An insider told me that everything is under wraps; in
                  fact, even the Marina launch dates were unknown to them.

                  Regards,

                  Pradeep

                  --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "dr_trrk" <dr_trrk@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi anil,
                  >
                  > I was thinking of upgrading from my Indica DLE. My interest was in
                  Marina.

                  > Rajesh
                  > (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 63250kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                • Jaswinder Singh
                  Munish Dear, Ref.: Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices by Rs 0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65 While you said it correctly
                  Message 8 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    Munish Dear,
                    Ref.: "Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices by Rs 0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65"

                    While you said it correctly that Diesel cost might not increase too much vis-a-vis Petrol, but the news is that the Diesel prices will go up by Rs. 1.65 while Petrol will go up by Rs. 0.65.

                    Regards
                    Jaswinder Singh


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: ARORA, MUNISH DEV (STSD) [mailto:munish.arora@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:56 AM
                    To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car


                    Guys,



                    I have a little different feeling here. Diesel prices should not exceed
                    the Petrol prices or even the price will not come this closer as you
                    guys have been saying. I remember around 3+ years back, the price of
                    diesel was Rs16-Rs17 in delhi and petrol was Rs 24-Rs26. Today in
                    Bangalore the price of diesel is Rs 28-Rs29 and petrol is Rs 44 - Rs 46.
                    So, I don't think the difference is going down.



                    Also, think of it that diesel is not only being used by Tata guys
                    (indica, indigo) but also by Trukers and buses. I feel those guys still
                    use more diesel than passenger cars. If that is the case, then Govt
                    cannot blindly keep increasing diesel prices to make them at par with
                    petrol.



                    Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices
                    by Rs0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65



                    My 2 cents,

                    -munish




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • ARORA, MUNISH DEV (STSD)
                    I am sorry. Yes you are right here! -munish ... From: Jaswinder Singh [mailto:Jaswinder.Singh@ideas.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:01 PM To:
                    Message 9 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      I am sorry. Yes you are right here!

                      -munish

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Jaswinder Singh [mailto:Jaswinder.Singh@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:01 PM
                      To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car


                      Munish Dear,
                      Ref.: "Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices by Rs 0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65"

                      While you said it correctly that Diesel cost might not increase too much vis-a-vis Petrol, but the news is that the Diesel prices will go up by Rs. 1.65 while Petrol will go up by Rs. 0.65.

                      Regards
                      Jaswinder Singh


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: ARORA, MUNISH DEV (STSD) [mailto:munish.arora@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:56 AM
                      To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car


                      Guys,



                      I have a little different feeling here. Diesel prices should not exceed
                      the Petrol prices or even the price will not come this closer as you
                      guys have been saying. I remember around 3+ years back, the price of
                      diesel was Rs16-Rs17 in delhi and petrol was Rs 24-Rs26. Today in
                      Bangalore the price of diesel is Rs 28-Rs29 and petrol is Rs 44 - Rs 46.
                      So, I don't think the difference is going down.



                      Also, think of it that diesel is not only being used by Tata guys
                      (indica, indigo) but also by Trukers and buses. I feel those guys still
                      use more diesel than passenger cars. If that is the case, then Govt
                      cannot blindly keep increasing diesel prices to make them at par with
                      petrol.



                      Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices
                      by Rs0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65



                      My 2 cents,

                      -munish




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      To UNsubscribe, send a blank email to the address:
                      indica-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com.
                      For submitting feedback about your Indica, use: http://www.egroups.com/files/indica-users/IndicaUsersFeedback.html
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                    • Arjun <Auto World India>
                      In western countries, there is not much difference in the price of diesel and petrol. The difference lies only in their application, and that is what will
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                        In western countries, there is not much difference in the price of
                        diesel and petrol. The difference lies only in their application, and
                        that is what will ultimately bear the difference between petrol cars
                        and diesel cars.

                        I also feel, that once this happens, Tata's will dramatically upgrade
                        their diesel technology for passenger cars, and provide turbo charges,
                        intercoolers, and CRDi or other comparable technology to deliver a
                        refined product to the customer - something like the Skoda Octavia or
                        even the Mercedes C200 CDi

                        Even though the Mercedes C200 CDi may be very good with fuel economy,
                        I perceive that buyers opt for one, primarily because it performs
                        better or atleast equally well with its petrol counterparts.

                        On the other hand, if one compares the driving experience of a diesel
                        indica with that of a petrol santro/getz/zen/wagon r.... there is
                        little that i need to say...


                        On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:45:58 +0530, ARORA, MUNISH DEV (STSD)
                        <munish.arora@...> wrote:
                        > I am sorry. Yes you are right here!
                        >
                        > -munish
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Jaswinder Singh [mailto:Jaswinder.Singh@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:01 PM
                        > To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car
                        >
                        >
                        > Munish Dear,
                        > Ref.: "Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel
                        > prices by Rs 0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65"
                        >
                        > While you said it correctly that Diesel cost might not increase too much
                        > vis-a-vis Petrol, but the news is that the Diesel prices will go up by Rs.
                        > 1.65 while Petrol will go up by Rs. 0.65.
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Jaswinder Singh
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: ARORA, MUNISH DEV (STSD) [mailto:munish.arora@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:56 AM
                        > To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [indica-users] diesel or petrol car
                        >
                        >
                        > Guys,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have a little different feeling here. Diesel prices should not exceed
                        > the Petrol prices or even the price will not come this closer as you
                        > guys have been saying. I remember around 3+ years back, the price of
                        > diesel was Rs16-Rs17 in delhi and petrol was Rs 24-Rs26. Today in
                        > Bangalore the price of diesel is Rs 28-Rs29 and petrol is Rs 44 - Rs 46.
                        > So, I don't think the difference is going down.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Also, think of it that diesel is not only being used by Tata guys
                        > (indica, indigo) but also by Trukers and buses. I feel those guys still
                        > use more diesel than passenger cars. If that is the case, then Govt
                        > cannot blindly keep increasing diesel prices to make them at par with
                        > petrol.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Even in the recent news there was a suggestion to increase diesel prices
                        > by Rs0.65 and Petrol by Rs. 1.65
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > My 2 cents,
                        >
                        > -munish
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Arjun <Auto World India>
                        You re right to a great extent. But, April is still 5 more months to go. That adds up to about 10,000 kilometers for someone who will use his car, if he is
                        Message 11 of 30 , Nov 2, 2004
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                          You're right to a great extent. But, April is still 5 more months to
                          go. That adds up to about 10,000 kilometers for someone who will use
                          his car, if he is going in for a diesel. If one needs a vehicle, and
                          cannot wait, he/she would really have no choice.

                          In fact, I hate the fact that auto manufacturers in India wait for
                          laws to come into action, then ask for extensions, before they release
                          new technology onto the streets. I still remember the year 2000, when
                          for a long period of time, Maruti was not able to register the Zen in
                          metros, until they came out with an MPFi version (apart from the top
                          of the line VXi which was MPFi from the very beginning)

                          it would indeed be a pleasure, if auto manufacturers would take the
                          initiative, to atleast, if not switch in entirety, give buyers the
                          option to buy the lower-polluting variant, perhaps even at a premium -
                          like Hyundai did with the Santro, back in 2000. Both the Euro I and
                          Euro II variants were available for some months, till it became
                          mandatory by law to sell only Euro II in April 2000.


                          On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 06:28:57 -0000, Pradeep Kumar <pradkumar@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Dr. Rajesh,
                          >
                          > This is just a little curious question. Why shop for a car now when
                          > new Euro III norm comes into effect in April 2005? It is another
                          > matter if you're looking for year-end discounts and, of course, the
                          > Indigo family is Euro III compliant (at least going by their sales
                          > spiel).
                          >
                          > You're a veteran of cars. I thought you'd wait to see how the
                          > competition spruces up for Euro III before you take a decision. I
                          > guess most car makers would announce their new upgraded engines with
                          > the new year. Frankly, I don't know how many cars need engine
                          > upgradation for the new norms. It is pretty chaotic in this country
                          > with very few car makers announcing their plans in advance or the new
                          > engine configurations. It's pretty much a wait and watch situation.
                          >
                          > With plenty of competition, I guess every car maker is cagey about
                          > the details. Recently, when I went to Concorde, I asked them about
                          > the turbo version of Indica, and when it is due. They just cold
                          > shouldered me. An insider told me that everything is under wraps; in
                          > fact, even the Marina launch dates were unknown to them.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Pradeep
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In indica-users@yahoogroups.com, "dr_trrk" <dr_trrk@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hi anil,
                          > >
                          > > I was thinking of upgrading from my Indica DLE. My interest was in
                          > Marina.
                          >
                          > > Rajesh
                          > > (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 63250kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          accuracy or reliability of any information contained on any of these
                          page(s)/message(s)/message archive(s).

                          None of the sponsor(s), advertiser(s) or promoter(s) of these pages,
                          or any of the individual contributors accept any liability for the
                          consequences of using the information presented on these pages.

                          Any action performed by you, is at your personal discretion. You are
                          advised to take all necessary precaution.

                          Belt yourself before the drive! Safety - The First Priority
                        • Somarao.Dronumraju@hpl.co.in
                          Manufacturing cost of Diesel is only 50 paisa less than Petrol. Petrol is generally in band C9 and its derivatives ( boiling point between 90 to 205 degC )
                          Message 12 of 30 , Nov 3, 2004
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                            Manufacturing cost of Diesel is only 50 paisa less than Petrol.
                            Petrol is generally in band C9 and its derivatives ( boiling point between
                            90 to 205 degC ) where Diesel is C14 and its derivatives ( boiling point
                            between 250 to 350 degC ) both comes out as a draw in fractional
                            distillation process of crude oil in Petroleum Refinery Process.

                            Pricing of these hydrocarbon comodities is now flexible and depends on
                            crude oil market, oil pool account and many other parameters. However
                            because of strategic reason, Diesel enjoys a very high subsidy in Indian
                            scenerio since long.

                            It is likely that in future Diesel will not have sudsidy but to my
                            understanding that day is too far as compared to the lifetime of our
                            existing diesel vehicle. Because, at present, Govt. neither have control
                            mechanism on pricing of essential comodities once diesel price is hiked,
                            nor the political leaders are ready to disturb their available vote banks.

                            So let us be among those privileged to get govt. subsidy for long.


                            Secondly, the benifit of diesel vehicle and petrol vehicle should be seen
                            with a broader view of LifeCycle Costing (LCC), i.e. cost of ownership of a
                            vehicle for entire period, which is,
                            1. Cost of acquisition (money you spent in buying vehicle)
                            2. Cost of running ( fuel cost + maintenance + insurance + road tax etc.)
                            3. Cost of disposal ( in reverse, the money you get in hand when you sell
                            it off ).
                            In effect you spend (1+2-3) over the lifetime of vehicle you own.
                            However calculating LCC is not a simple task, as you will appreciate that
                            fuel cost, maintenance cost etc are suppose to escalate over a period of
                            time where some may be driven only by inflation rate where others by some
                            other complex mechanism.

                            To simplify the process let us try to compare cost of ownership on todays
                            valuation with certain basic assumptions,
                            1. Life of diesel & petrol vehicle is same (However, we may debate on it
                            !!)
                            2. Life of vehicle is 7 years. ( As per standard depreciation guidelines,
                            even followed by banks )

                            Now you are ready for calculation,
                            1. Get the acquisition cost. Amount you spent (without accessories), to put
                            it on road.
                            2. Identify how many km is your average run/month.
                            3. Know efficiency of your car , the design data supplied by manufacturer
                            in km/ltr. (Which is more or less expected if car is mantained as per
                            manufacturer guidelines)
                            4. Calculate required fuel and multiply by todays price.
                            5. Multiply the monthly fuel bill by 84 to get fuel cost over seven years
                            to todays context.
                            6. Identify all replacement parts as identified in user manual. You can
                            identify the required changes in 7 years based on frequency given in user
                            manual either in time or km.
                            This covers material cost of oils, filters etc., even tyres and all labour
                            cost associated with replacement or preventive maintenance.
                            7. Insurance cost depends on CC of vehicle. If you are interested you may
                            capture it for 7 years with no-claim bonus effective through out. Calculate
                            road tax accordingly.
                            8. So your running cost is (5+ 6+7) on todays context.
                            9. Estimate resale value of the car in your locality after 7 years.(Indica
                            has not lived for 7 years !!).

                            Your cost of ownership on todays valuation is (1+8-9).
                            Once you calculate ,this comparison result may tell you where you stand
                            with reference to,
                            1. Diesel vs. Pertol vehicle.
                            2. Manufacturer A vs Manufacturer B.

                            This comparision assumes that both vehicle will run properly in its
                            lifetime and will not incurred accidental expenses. This is the basis for
                            an apple to apple comparison. Though it is not perfect but fairly
                            indicative to help you decide, if cost plays important role in your
                            selection process.

                            Even if you decide to keep your new vehicle for only three years, you may
                            follow same calculation to find you where you stand in comparing two
                            vehicles.

                            Regards.

                            Abhijit
                          • deepak taneja
                            Hi Abhijit That was very scientific way to analize car ownership and Life time cost cycle. Do you have some comparitive that you have done on differnt
                            Message 13 of 30 , Nov 4, 2004
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                              Hi Abhijit
                              That was very scientific way to analize car ownership and Life time cost cycle. Do you have some comparitive that you have done on differnt cars.
                              By
                              deepak

                              Somarao.Dronumraju@... wrote:

                              Manufacturing cost of Diesel is only 50 paisa less than Petrol.
                              Petrol is generally in band C9 and its derivatives ( boiling point between
                              90 to 205 degC ) where Diesel is C14 and its derivatives ( boiling point
                              between 250 to 350 degC ) both comes out as a draw in fractional
                              distillation process of crude oil in Petroleum Refinery Process.

                              Pricing of these hydrocarbon comodities is now flexible and depends on
                              crude oil market, oil pool account and many other parameters. However
                              because of strategic reason, Diesel enjoys a very high subsidy in Indian
                              scenerio since long.

                              It is likely that in future Diesel will not have sudsidy but to my
                              understanding that day is too far as compared to the lifetime of our
                              existing diesel vehicle. Because, at present, Govt. neither have control
                              mechanism on pricing of essential comodities once diesel price is hiked,
                              nor the political leaders are ready to disturb their available vote banks.

                              So let us be among those privileged to get govt. subsidy for long.


                              Secondly, the benifit of diesel vehicle and petrol vehicle should be seen
                              with a broader view of LifeCycle Costing (LCC), i.e. cost of ownership of a
                              vehicle for entire period, which is,
                              1. Cost of acquisition (money you spent in buying vehicle)
                              2. Cost of running ( fuel cost + maintenance + insurance + road tax etc.)
                              3. Cost of disposal ( in reverse, the money you get in hand when you sell
                              it off ).
                              In effect you spend (1+2-3) over the lifetime of vehicle you own.
                              However calculating LCC is not a simple task, as you will appreciate that
                              fuel cost, maintenance cost etc are suppose to escalate over a period of
                              time where some may be driven only by inflation rate where others by some
                              other complex mechanism.

                              To simplify the process let us try to compare cost of ownership on todays
                              valuation with certain basic assumptions,
                              1. Life of diesel & petrol vehicle is same (However, we may debate on it
                              !!)
                              2. Life of vehicle is 7 years. ( As per standard depreciation guidelines,
                              even followed by banks )

                              Now you are ready for calculation,
                              1. Get the acquisition cost. Amount you spent (without accessories), to put
                              it on road.
                              2. Identify how many km is your average run/month.
                              3. Know efficiency of your car , the design data supplied by manufacturer
                              in km/ltr. (Which is more or less expected if car is mantained as per
                              manufacturer guidelines)
                              4. Calculate required fuel and multiply by todays price.
                              5. Multiply the monthly fuel bill by 84 to get fuel cost over seven years
                              to todays context.
                              6. Identify all replacement parts as identified in user manual. You can
                              identify the required changes in 7 years based on frequency given in user
                              manual either in time or km.
                              This covers material cost of oils, filters etc., even tyres and all labour
                              cost associated with replacement or preventive maintenance.
                              7. Insurance cost depends on CC of vehicle. If you are interested you may
                              capture it for 7 years with no-claim bonus effective through out. Calculate
                              road tax accordingly.
                              8. So your running cost is (5+ 6+7) on todays context.
                              9. Estimate resale value of the car in your locality after 7 years.(Indica
                              has not lived for 7 years !!).

                              Your cost of ownership on todays valuation is (1+8-9).
                              Once you calculate ,this comparison result may tell you where you stand
                              with reference to,
                              1. Diesel vs. Pertol vehicle.
                              2. Manufacturer A vs Manufacturer B.

                              This comparision assumes that both vehicle will run properly in its
                              lifetime and will not incurred accidental expenses. This is the basis for
                              an apple to apple comparison. Though it is not perfect but fairly
                              indicative to help you decide, if cost plays important role in your
                              selection process.

                              Even if you decide to keep your new vehicle for only three years, you may
                              follow same calculation to find you where you stand in comparing two
                              vehicles.

                              Regards.

                              Abhijit





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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Arjun <Auto World India>
                              This is a very good way to arouse an insight in the prospective car buyer s mind. Though, I would also like to add, that because of the baggage we all carry
                              Message 14 of 30 , Nov 4, 2004
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                                This is a very good way to arouse an insight in the prospective car
                                buyer's mind. Though, I would also like to add, that because of the
                                baggage we all carry about diesel cars requiring more maintenance in
                                later years of life, the resale value of diesel cars is also lower
                                than that of comparable petrol ones. This means, that there is added
                                expenditure in terms of depreciation during the use-life of the
                                vehicle.

                                Essentially, we should calculate the cost incurred in terms of cash
                                flow - the cash outflow at the time of purchase, and the cash inflow
                                at time of resale.

                                Arjun


                                On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:32:28 +0530, somarao.dronumraju@...
                                <somarao.dronumraju@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Manufacturing cost of Diesel is only 50 paisa less than Petrol.
                                > Petrol is generally in band C9 and its derivatives ( boiling point between
                                > 90 to 205 degC ) where Diesel is C14 and its derivatives ( boiling point
                                > between 250 to 350 degC ) both comes out as a draw in fractional
                                > distillation process of crude oil in Petroleum Refinery Process.
                                >
                                > Pricing of these hydrocarbon comodities is now flexible and depends on
                                > crude oil market, oil pool account and many other parameters. However
                                > because of strategic reason, Diesel enjoys a very high subsidy in Indian
                                > scenerio since long.
                                >
                                > It is likely that in future Diesel will not have sudsidy but to my
                                > understanding that day is too far as compared to the lifetime of our
                                > existing diesel vehicle. Because, at present, Govt. neither have control
                                > mechanism on pricing of essential comodities once diesel price is hiked,
                                > nor the political leaders are ready to disturb their available vote banks.
                                >
                                > So let us be among those privileged to get govt. subsidy for long.
                                >
                                >
                                > Secondly, the benifit of diesel vehicle and petrol vehicle should be seen
                                > with a broader view of LifeCycle Costing (LCC), i.e. cost of ownership of a
                                > vehicle for entire period, which is,
                                > 1. Cost of acquisition (money you spent in buying vehicle)
                                > 2. Cost of running ( fuel cost + maintenance + insurance + road tax etc.)
                                > 3. Cost of disposal ( in reverse, the money you get in hand when you sell
                                > it off ).
                                > In effect you spend (1+2-3) over the lifetime of vehicle you own.
                                > However calculating LCC is not a simple task, as you will appreciate that
                                > fuel cost, maintenance cost etc are suppose to escalate over a period of
                                > time where some may be driven only by inflation rate where others by some
                                > other complex mechanism.
                                >
                                > To simplify the process let us try to compare cost of ownership on todays
                                > valuation with certain basic assumptions,
                                > 1. Life of diesel & petrol vehicle is same (However, we may debate on it
                                > !!)
                                > 2. Life of vehicle is 7 years. ( As per standard depreciation guidelines,
                                > even followed by banks )
                                >
                                > Now you are ready for calculation,
                                > 1. Get the acquisition cost. Amount you spent (without accessories), to put
                                > it on road.
                                > 2. Identify how many km is your average run/month.
                                > 3. Know efficiency of your car , the design data supplied by manufacturer
                                > in km/ltr. (Which is more or less expected if car is mantained as per
                                > manufacturer guidelines)
                                > 4. Calculate required fuel and multiply by todays price.
                                > 5. Multiply the monthly fuel bill by 84 to get fuel cost over seven years
                                > to todays context.
                                > 6. Identify all replacement parts as identified in user manual. You can
                                > identify the required changes in 7 years based on frequency given in user
                                > manual either in time or km.
                                > This covers material cost of oils, filters etc., even tyres and all labour
                                > cost associated with replacement or preventive maintenance.
                                > 7. Insurance cost depends on CC of vehicle. If you are interested you may
                                > capture it for 7 years with no-claim bonus effective through out. Calculate
                                > road tax accordingly.
                                > 8. So your running cost is (5+ 6+7) on todays context.
                                > 9. Estimate resale value of the car in your locality after 7 years.(Indica
                                > has not lived for 7 years !!).
                                >
                                > Your cost of ownership on todays valuation is (1+8-9).
                                > Once you calculate ,this comparison result may tell you where you stand
                                > with reference to,
                                > 1. Diesel vs. Pertol vehicle.
                                > 2. Manufacturer A vs Manufacturer B.
                                >
                                > This comparision assumes that both vehicle will run properly in its
                                > lifetime and will not incurred accidental expenses. This is the basis for
                                > an apple to apple comparison. Though it is not perfect but fairly
                                > indicative to help you decide, if cost plays important role in your
                                > selection process.
                                >
                                > Even if you decide to keep your new vehicle for only three years, you may
                                > follow same calculation to find you where you stand in comparing two
                                > vehicles.
                                >
                                > Regards.
                                >
                                > Abhijit
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To UNsubscribe, send a blank email to the address:
                                > indica-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com.
                                > For submitting feedback about your Indica, use:
                                > http://www.egroups.com/files/indica-users/IndicaUsersFeedback.html
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                The information presented in this message represents the opinions of
                                the individual contributors. No representation is made regarding the
                                accuracy or reliability of any information contained on any of these
                                page(s)/message(s)/message archive(s).

                                None of the sponsor(s), advertiser(s) or promoter(s) of these pages,
                                or any of the individual contributors accept any liability for the
                                consequences of using the information presented on these pages.

                                Any action performed by you, is at your personal discretion. You are
                                advised to take all necessary precaution.

                                Belt yourself before the drive! Safety - The First Priority
                              • dr_trrk
                                Hi, ... The wieght difference is about 35 kgs. Should not make that much of a difference. ... I totally agree with you on this. Other than this, it was not in
                                Message 15 of 30 , Nov 7, 2004
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                                  Hi,

                                  > The Marina is bigger and has more weight than the Indigo. Also the
                                  > weight is tilted towards the rear with the bigger hatch and you're

                                  The wieght difference is about 35 kgs. Should not make that much of a
                                  difference.

                                  > Also, if the engine was cold during the initial minutes of the test

                                  I totally agree with you on this. Other than this, it was not in its
                                  good self. I could not try it for a longer distance as it had hardly
                                  any diesel and I did not want to get stranded on the road.

                                  Rajesh
                                  (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 64000kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                                • sunil S
                                  Hi All, I have done my cars fourth(20,000) service on Nov 4th 2004. After that I have noticed Engine Oil leakage. I have informed about it to the concerned
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Nov 7, 2004
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                                    Hi All,

                                    I have done my cars fourth(20,000) service on Nov 4th
                                    2004. After that I have noticed Engine Oil leakage. I
                                    have informed about it to the concerned person who did
                                    servicing. He told me to bring the car tomm to
                                    KOYENCO.

                                    Looking from beneath the car I can notice that the
                                    whole engine compartment is wet, within 15 mn a single
                                    drop gets leaked out.

                                    Can any one tell me what may be the reson for this.
                                    What might have gone wrong while refilling the Engine
                                    oil...

                                    Thanks and Regards

                                    Sunil S.
                                    (V2 DLS, April 11th 2003, 19996 kms, 13 kpl min , 27.2
                                    max, Kochi, Kerala, KL04 M 5400)
                                    Sunil S.



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                                  • Arjun <Auto World India>
                                    The 35kg difference is in kerb weight of the car. Add to it the balance being shifted to the rear, which is like driving with a boot-full of load. It matters
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Nov 7, 2004
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                                      The 35kg difference is in kerb weight of the car. Add to it the
                                      balance being shifted to the rear, which is like driving with a
                                      boot-full of load. It matters at what point the load is added to the
                                      car.

                                      You can probably appreciate such a difference if you compare the
                                      handling of a small car like the Zen with a bigger variant, like the
                                      Esteem - which have similar designing. The added weight behind the
                                      rear wheel adds bulk to handling. If you've driven the Indica and
                                      Indigo, you would find a similar difference in handling as well. And
                                      thus, the difference between the Indigo and the Marina.




                                      On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:50:12 -0000, dr_trrk <dr_trrk@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi,
                                      >
                                      > > The Marina is bigger and has more weight than the Indigo. Also the
                                      > > weight is tilted towards the rear with the bigger hatch and you're
                                      >
                                      > The wieght difference is about 35 kgs. Should not make that much of a
                                      > difference.
                                      >
                                      > > Also, if the engine was cold during the initial minutes of the test
                                      >
                                      > I totally agree with you on this. Other than this, it was not in its
                                      > good self. I could not try it for a longer distance as it had hardly
                                      > any diesel and I did not want to get stranded on the road.
                                      >
                                      > Rajesh
                                      > (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 64000kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      The information presented in this message represents the opinions of
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                                      accuracy or reliability of any information contained on any of these
                                      page(s)/message(s)/message archive(s).

                                      None of the sponsor(s), advertiser(s) or promoter(s) of these pages,
                                      or any of the individual contributors accept any liability for the
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                                      Any action performed by you, is at your personal discretion. You are
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                                      Belt yourself before the drive! Safety - The First Priority
                                    • Arjun <Auto World India>
                                      From your description, it would be advisable to check if the leak comes from damage to the oil chamber that has been physically hit, or whether the leak comes
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Nov 7, 2004
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                                        From your description, it would be advisable to check if the leak
                                        comes from damage to the oil chamber that has been physically hit, or
                                        whether the leak comes from the oil drain stopper and the oil filter.
                                        If the latter components are in place, replace the oil chamber
                                        immediately. Do not drive the car with low engine oil - it will lead
                                        to engine seizure.



                                        On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:15:40 -0800 (PST), sunil S <sunil_exor@...> wrote:
                                        > Hi All,
                                        >
                                        > I have done my cars fourth(20,000) service on Nov 4th
                                        > 2004. After that I have noticed Engine Oil leakage. I
                                        > have informed about it to the concerned person who did
                                        > servicing. He told me to bring the car tomm to
                                        > KOYENCO.
                                        >
                                        > Looking from beneath the car I can notice that the
                                        > whole engine compartment is wet, within 15 mn a single
                                        > drop gets leaked out.
                                        >
                                        > Can any one tell me what may be the reson for this.
                                        > What might have gone wrong while refilling the Engine
                                        > oil...
                                        >
                                        > Thanks and Regards
                                        >
                                        > Sunil S.
                                        > (V2 DLS, April 11th 2003, 19996 kms, 13 kpl min , 27.2
                                        > max, Kochi, Kerala, KL04 M 5400)
                                        > Sunil S.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________
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                                        The information presented in this message represents the opinions of
                                        the individual contributors. No representation is made regarding the
                                        accuracy or reliability of any information contained on any of these
                                        page(s)/message(s)/message archive(s).

                                        None of the sponsor(s), advertiser(s) or promoter(s) of these pages,
                                        or any of the individual contributors accept any liability for the
                                        consequences of using the information presented on these pages.

                                        Any action performed by you, is at your personal discretion. You are
                                        advised to take all necessary precaution.

                                        Belt yourself before the drive! Safety - The First Priority
                                      • dr_trrk
                                        Hi, ... Doesn t that sound too formal? ... OK. I am in a place where these norms would be implemented the last. So I necessarily don t have to worry about the
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                          Hi,

                                          > Hi Dr. Rajesh,

                                          Doesn't that sound too formal?

                                          > This is just a little curious question. Why shop for a car now when
                                          > new Euro III norm comes into effect in April 2005? It is another

                                          OK. I am in a place where these norms would be implemented the last.
                                          So I necessarily don't have to worry about the norms as such. Then
                                          again, the Viva CRDi is Euro III.

                                          > matter if you're looking for year-end discounts and,

                                          I actually chose a model for which there is a waiting list over here
                                          and hardly any discounts. All discounts and freebies are restricted to
                                          the petrol models.

                                          > You're a veteran of cars. I thought you'd wait to see how the
                                          > competition spruces up for Euro III before you take a decision. I

                                          Over the years, I have grown to love cars. I love all of them from the
                                          Premier Padminis to all the new cars. But I am not in a position to
                                          buy any car that I would like.

                                          Then I chose a car which has the versatilty to carry some bigger loads
                                          too. My family ( wife and daughter) makes the decision collectively.
                                          Then the all important budget. Since the family decision was to
                                          replace the Indica (the grouse being the AC, after being spoilt by the
                                          Versa), so the budget was low and we were looking to a B/C segemnt.
                                          The running dictated a diesel. I have local serivce for Maruti, Tata
                                          and Hyundai. Usually I never repeat my vehicles.

                                          Here is something which may not be liked by everybody. In our parts,
                                          before the photo along with pollution certificate system was enforced,
                                          we did not even have to have the car to get a pollution certificate.
                                          Now as the photo is needed, you have to get the car to the checking
                                          station. I know, the situation is not at all credit worthy, but the
                                          fact remains so.

                                          Rajesh
                                          (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 64200kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                                        • dr_trrk
                                          Hi, ... The most likely oil leak post service may be a improperly tightened oil filter or a loose engine oil drain plug. Check it out immediately. Rajesh (V2
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                            Hi,

                                            > I have done my cars fourth(20,000) service on Nov 4th
                                            > 2004. After that I have noticed Engine Oil leakage. I

                                            The most likely oil leak post service may be a improperly tightened
                                            oil filter or a loose engine oil drain plug.

                                            Check it out immediately.

                                            Rajesh
                                            (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 64200kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                                          • dr_trrk
                                            Hi, ... All that would matter only when high speeds are involved. Our state has a 65 kph speed limit and I stick to that. Even out side our state I have made a
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                              Hi,

                                              > The 35kg difference is in kerb weight of the car. Add to it the
                                              > balance being shifted to the rear, which is like driving with a

                                              All that would matter only when high speeds are involved. Our state
                                              has a 65 kph speed limit and I stick to that. Even out side our state
                                              I have made a habit of keeping my speeds at that level or at the
                                              maximum 80 kph.

                                              Rajesh
                                              (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 64200kms, 16kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL 04 J 0914)
                                            • sunil S
                                              Hi All, I have taken the car to Koyenco today. I told the person in charge who did the 4th service regarding the leakage. He called me after two hour and told
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                                Hi All,

                                                I have taken the car to Koyenco today. I told the
                                                person in charge who did the 4th service regarding the
                                                leakage.

                                                He called me after two hour and told that it was Power
                                                Steering Oil that was leaking. I was also having a
                                                doubt today morning. When I checked the level of
                                                Engine oil it was ok and was almost dark in color and
                                                the leaking oil was having a different color,but was
                                                leaking from the engine compartment,when looking from
                                                bottom part.

                                                High Pressure hose was repalced(realted with power
                                                steering). Hose was having minute crack on both the
                                                sides, from which the oil was leaking. It costs about
                                                Rs 1022.

                                                Before the fourth service there was no leaking, After
                                                the 4th service the leaking started. The person in
                                                charge Mr Biju told me that they didnt touch the power
                                                steering part during the 4th service.

                                                Regards
                                                Sunil S.
                                                (V2 DLS, April 11th 2003, 19950 kms, 13 kpl min , 27.2
                                                max, Kochi, Kerala, KL04 M 5400)






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                                              • sunil S
                                                Hi All, My car was having Power steering oil leakage after 20k service. It was rectified yesterday after replacing the High Pressure hose (Rs 1022)(From
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                                  Hi All,

                                                  My car was having Power steering oil leakage after 20k
                                                  service. It was rectified yesterday after replacing
                                                  the High Pressure hose (Rs 1022)(From KOYENCO Kochi.).
                                                  Today morning when I checked for any leakage, I could
                                                  notice the same leakage under the Engine compartment.
                                                  Now the leaking was more than earlier :(

                                                  Can any one pls explain what can be went wrong during
                                                  the 4th service that might have caused this power
                                                  steering leakage.

                                                  Today morning I have given the car again to KOYENCO
                                                  Motors.

                                                  Regards
                                                  Sunil S.
                                                  (V2 DLS, April 11th 2003, 19975 kms, 13 kpl min ,
                                                  27.2max, Kochi, Kerala, KL04 M 5400)



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                                                • Jaswinder Singh
                                                  Rajesh: 1) Why haven t you even got an Santro car? 2) Won t you go for a Santro Xing even if it would be offered to you at a discount of Rs. 40,000/- ? Just
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                                    Rajesh:
                                                    1) Why haven't you even got an Santro car?
                                                    2) Won't you go for a Santro Xing even if it would be offered to you at a discount of Rs. 40,000/- ?

                                                    Just Wondering...
                                                    Jaswinder Singh

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: dr_trrk [mailto:dr_trrk@...]
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:43 PM
                                                    To: indica-users@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [indica-users] Re: buying decision



                                                    Hi,

                                                    > Hi Dr. Rajesh,

                                                    Doesn't that sound too formal?

                                                    > This is just a little curious question. Why shop for a car now when
                                                    > new Euro III norm comes into effect in April 2005? It is another

                                                    OK. I am in a place where these norms would be implemented the last.
                                                    So I necessarily don't have to worry about the norms as such. Then
                                                    again, the Viva CRDi is Euro III.

                                                    > matter if you're looking for year-end discounts and,

                                                    I actually chose a model for which there is a waiting list over here
                                                    and hardly any discounts. All discounts and freebies are restricted to
                                                    the petrol models.

                                                    > You're a veteran of cars. I thought you'd wait to see how the
                                                    > competition spruces up for Euro III before you take a decision. I

                                                    Over the years, I have grown to love cars. I love all of them from the
                                                    Premier Padminis to all the new cars. But I am not in a position to
                                                    buy any car that I would like.

                                                    Then I chose a car which has the versatilty to carry some bigger loads
                                                    too. My family ( wife and daughter) makes the decision collectively.
                                                    Then the all important budget. Since the family decision was to
                                                    replace the Indica (the grouse being the AC, after being spoilt by the
                                                    Versa), so the budget was low and we were looking to a B/C segemnt.
                                                    The running dictated a diesel. I have local serivce for Maruti, Tata
                                                    and Hyundai. Usually I never repeat my vehicles.



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • dr_trrk
                                                    Hi, ... In 1996 I had a Cielo Automatic and a Sumo. By 1998, my Cielo was being used for school runs and was giving a low mileage in town use. So I went in for
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Nov 10, 2004
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                                                      Hi,

                                                      > 1) Why haven't you even got an Santro car?

                                                      In 1996 I had a Cielo Automatic and a Sumo. By 1998, my Cielo was
                                                      being used for school runs and was giving a low mileage in town use.
                                                      So I went in for the Uno diesel. I doubt Santro was in the market
                                                      then. Even then I would not have gone for a petrol as my use for a
                                                      small car is essentially short runs and in congested not very good
                                                      road and always with AC. This is the worst scenario for fule
                                                      consumption. My running is also high, so I will be better off with a
                                                      diesel in terms of expense.

                                                      The Uno was not giving me very good mileage in the above use, just 9
                                                      kpl. It was there for 27 months and 31000 kms and due to the
                                                      indifferent attitude of the desler here reagarding a service issue
                                                      prompted me for a change in vehicle. I bought my Indica then. The only
                                                      petrol car in the run up for decision was the Matiz.

                                                      > 2) Won't you go for a Santro Xing even if it would be offered to you
                                                      > at a discount of Rs. 40,000/- ?

                                                      The Santro has a very bad back seat ride. The roads that we use
                                                      regularly are not at all good at any time of the year. So ride is
                                                      important. So Santro was never in the wish list. I did take a test
                                                      drive of the Santro recently. In the butter smooth highway byepass
                                                      road, the ride was good. I considered it for a moment (wanted the
                                                      automatic version) to be used exclusively by me. But then I thought I
                                                      would not make that mistake and regret later.

                                                      So, the answer to your question no. 2 is a no. This is purely personal
                                                      as the same raods are flocked with Santros of all shapes and hues.

                                                      Rajesh
                                                      (V2 DLE, Feb 2001, 64145 kms, 15 kpl, Alleppey, Kerala, KL04 J0914)
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