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Re: [indianmilitia] words

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  • Dudley Toelke
    Don t know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.   Wasn t sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 7, 2009
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      Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

       
      Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
       
      Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
       
      Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
       
      Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

      Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

      Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
       
      Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
       
      dud

      --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@...> wrote:

      From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@...>
      Subject: [indianmilitia] words
      To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

       
      I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
      Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
       
      I need the words for
       
      Elk
      Death
      word for killer or slayer or hunter
      stick
      quick or fast
       
      Thanks
      KDB


       

    • Ken D. Bueche
      Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared...   what about bow?   Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 7, 2009
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        Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared...
         
        what about bow?
         
        Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo backed osage bows for my father and brother in law for christmas. They are both big time traditional bow hunters and i am trying to fimd good names for the bows. They have both taken elk and bear among other big game and not from some fenced in caned hunt.
        Thanks
        KD Bueche
         
        anyone with good ideas pop in :)


         


        --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Dudley Toelke <dud@...> wrote:

        From: Dudley Toelke <dud@...>
        Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
        To: indianmilitia@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 5:26 PM

         
        Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

         
        Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
         
        Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
         
        Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
         
        Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

        Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

        Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
         
        Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
         
        dud

        --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com>
        Subject: [indianmilitia] words
        To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com>
        Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

         
        I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
        Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
         
        I need the words for
         
        Elk
        Death
        word for killer or slayer or hunter
        stick
        quick or fast
         
        Thanks
        KDB


         


      • moklahuta@att.net
        I thought that Tanampo was the word for bow until guns came along. Then they had to add a qualifier words at the end of the word to differentiate between the
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 7, 2009
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          I thought that Tanampo was the word for bow until guns came along. Then they had to add a qualifier words at the end of the word to differentiate between the two.
           
          BN
           
           
          -------------- Original message from "Ken D. Bueche" <kdbueche@...>: --------------

           

          Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared.. .
           
          what about bow?
           
          Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo backed osage bows for my father and brother in law for christmas. They are both big time traditional bow hunters and i am trying to fimd good names for the bows. They have both taken elk and bear among other big game and not from some fenced in caned hunt.
          Thanks
          KD Bueche
           
          anyone with good ideas pop in :)


           


          --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Dudley Toelke <dud@...> wrote:

          From: Dudley Toelke <dud@...>
          Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
          To: indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 5:26 PM

           
          Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

           
          Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
           
          Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
           
          Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
           
          Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

          Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

          Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
           
          Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
           
          dud

          --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com> wrote:

          From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com>
          Subject: [indianmilitia] words
          To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com>
          Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

           
          I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
          Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
           
          I need the words for
           
          Elk
          Death
          word for killer or slayer or hunter
          stick
          quick or fast
           
          Thanks
          KDB


           


        • debra
          Elk isi chito death aiilli, illi, illi atukla, nan illi killer abi, nan abi the a is pronunced as u in tub slay uski chula to slay akkakoli, abi, illichi
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 7, 2009
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            Elk  isi chito
             
            death aiilli, illi, illi atukla, nan illi
             
            killer abi, nan abi   the a is pronunced as u in tub
            slay uski chula
             
            to slay akkakoli, abi, illichi
             
            slayer abi, nan abi
             
            hunter hatak illi achopa, hoyo, ilhpapa, isi abi, nan hoyo, owatta, silhhi
             
            stick  iti tapa, iti taptua
             
            quick cheki, palhki, shinimpa, tushpa
             
            fast (swift) chahli, palhki
             
            fast (tight) afacha, alhkama
             
            fast walker chahli
             
            Thease words all vary slightly depending on how they are used. you can buy a choctaw dictionary from  http://www.choctawnation.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home   go to the store or ed. dept.
            the bee
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:40 PM
            Subject: [indianmilitia] words

             

            I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
            Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
             
            I need the words for
             
            Elk
            Death
            word for killer or slayer or hunter
            stick
            quick or fast
             
            Thanks
            KDB


             



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          • Ken D. Bueche
            Me to bob but wanted to make sure. There was tanomp and tanompo   ... From: moklahuta@att.net Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words To:
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 7, 2009
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              Me to bob but wanted to make sure.
              There was tanomp and tanompo

               


              --- On Mon, 12/7/09, moklahuta@... <moklahuta@...> wrote:

              From: moklahuta@... <moklahuta@...>
              Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
              To: indianmilitia@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 9:24 PM

              I thought that Tanampo was the word for bow until guns came along. Then they had to add a qualifier words at the end of the word to differentiate between the two.
               
              BN
               
               
              -------------- Original message from "Ken D. Bueche" <kdbueche@...>: --------------

               
              Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared.. .
               
              what about bow?
               
              Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo backed osage bows for my father and brother in law for christmas. They are both big time traditional bow hunters and i am trying to fimd good names for the bows. They have both taken elk and bear among other big game and not from some fenced in caned hunt.
              Thanks
              KD Bueche
               
              anyone with good ideas pop in :)


               


              --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Dudley Toelke <dud@...> wrote:

              From: Dudley Toelke <dud@...>
              Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
              To: indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 5:26 PM

               
              Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

               
              Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
               
              Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
               
              Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
               
              Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

              Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

              Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
               
              Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
               
              dud

              --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com>
              Subject: [indianmilitia] words
              To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com>
              Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

               
              I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
              Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
               
              I need the words for
               
              Elk
              Death
              word for killer or slayer or hunter
              stick
              quick or fast
               
              Thanks
              KDB


               



            • Dudley Toelke
              Bow:  Tenampo iti.  It used to be just plain tenampo but when they got hold of guns, the gun became a tenampo. So to differentiate at some point, the wooden
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 8, 2009
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                Bow:  Tenampo iti.  It used to be just plain tenampo but when they got hold of guns, the gun became a tenampo. So to differentiate at some point, the wooden bow became tenampo iti; litteral translation-bow wood or wooden bow.
                 
                dud

                --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@...> wrote:

                From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@...>
                Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                To: indianmilitia@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 8:50 PM

                 
                Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared.. .
                 
                what about bow?
                 
                Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo backed osage bows for my father and brother in law for christmas. They are both big time traditional bow hunters and i am trying to fimd good names for the bows. They have both taken elk and bear among other big game and not from some fenced in caned hunt.
                Thanks
                KD Bueche
                 
                anyone with good ideas pop in :)


                 


                --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Dudley Toelke <dud@...> wrote:

                From: Dudley Toelke <dud@...>
                Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                To: indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 5:26 PM

                 
                Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

                 
                Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
                 
                Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
                 
                Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
                 
                Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

                Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

                Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
                 
                Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
                 
                dud

                --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com> wrote:

                From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com>
                Subject: [indianmilitia] words
                To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com>
                Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

                 
                I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
                Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
                 
                I need the words for
                 
                Elk
                Death
                word for killer or slayer or hunter
                stick
                quick or fast
                 
                Thanks
                KDB


                 


              • Dudley Toelke
                Didn t read your reply before I sent mine.   dud ... From: moklahuta@att.net Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words To:
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 8, 2009
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                  Didn't read your reply before I sent mine.
                   
                  dud

                  --- On Mon, 12/7/09, moklahuta@... <moklahuta@...> wrote:

                  From: moklahuta@... <moklahuta@...>
                  Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                  To: indianmilitia@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 9:24 PM

                  I thought that Tanampo was the word for bow until guns came along. Then they had to add a qualifier words at the end of the word to differentiate between the two.
                   
                  BN
                   
                   
                  -------------- Original message from "Ken D. Bueche" <kdbueche@...>: --------------

                   
                  Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared.. .
                   
                  what about bow?
                   
                  Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo backed osage bows for my father and brother in law for christmas. They are both big time traditional bow hunters and i am trying to fimd good names for the bows. They have both taken elk and bear among other big game and not from some fenced in caned hunt.
                  Thanks
                  KD Bueche
                   
                  anyone with good ideas pop in :)


                   


                  --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Dudley Toelke <dud@...> wrote:

                  From: Dudley Toelke <dud@...>
                  Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                  To: indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 5:26 PM

                   
                  Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

                   
                  Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
                   
                  Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
                   
                  Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
                   
                  Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

                  Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

                  Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
                   
                  Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
                   
                  dud

                  --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: [indianmilitia] words
                  To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com>
                  Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

                   
                  I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
                  Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
                   
                  I need the words for
                   
                  Elk
                  Death
                  word for killer or slayer or hunter
                  stick
                  quick or fast
                   
                  Thanks
                  KDB


                   


                • Dudley Toelke
                  On the translation of elk, I think the issi chito came later and superseded the actual word the Choctaw had for elk.  I don t know what the word was. 
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 8, 2009
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                    On the translation of elk, I think the issi chito came later and superseded the actual word the Choctaw had for elk.  I don't know what the word was.  However, the Choctaw still carried the collective stories of their movement from the west to the east and would have encountered elk on their trek. However, as the elk became hunted out in the east, the word was lost and just became issi chito.  Since they have individual words for every animal, wild and domestic ( some domestic animal names are combined names or modified names), they must have had one for elk; the translation I have is from Byington.  I know that it is an assumption but it seems that every wild animal had an individual name.  
                     
                    Byington arrived among the Choctaw, as a missionary, in the last part of 1819. He comprised a book on grammar of the Choctaw language and later a dictionary; not published until 1915.  That is why I believe the ancient Choctaw word for elk had passed.  By the time he arrived in Mississippi, the eastern elk was pretty well gone.  However, I really like the dictionary because it still has the translations for powder horn, charger, ramrod and many other words not in general use today and probably nonexistent in the current language. It's better adapted for reenactors.
                     
                    dud

                    --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@...> wrote:

                    From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@...>
                    Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                    To: indianmilitia@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 10:00 PM

                     
                    Me to bob but wanted to make sure.
                    There was tanomp and tanompo

                     


                    --- On Mon, 12/7/09, moklahuta@att. net <moklahuta@att. net> wrote:

                    From: moklahuta@att. net <moklahuta@att. net>
                    Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                    To: indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 9:24 PM

                    I thought that Tanampo was the word for bow until guns came along. Then they had to add a qualifier words at the end of the word to differentiate between the two.
                     
                    BN
                     
                     
                    ------------ -- Original message from "Ken D. Bueche" <kdbueche@yahoo. com>: ------------ --

                     
                    Thanks alot dud its been agravatin me. Im ordering two new language books. Mine have disapeared.. .
                     
                    what about bow?
                     
                    Reason. I have been working on 3 bambo backed osage bows for my father and brother in law for christmas. They are both big time traditional bow hunters and i am trying to fimd good names for the bows. They have both taken elk and bear among other big game and not from some fenced in caned hunt.
                    Thanks
                    KD Bueche
                     
                    anyone with good ideas pop in :)


                     


                    --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Dudley Toelke <dud@...> wrote:

                    From: Dudley Toelke <dud@...>
                    Subject: Re: [indianmilitia] words
                    To: indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 5:26 PM

                     
                    Don't know how I sent the other answer so ignore it. OK, try again.

                     
                    Wasn't sure about elk but turned out I was right.  I checked these translations against Byington's Dictionary:
                     
                    Elk-issi chito.  Literally big deer
                     
                    Death-illi. But can also mean to perish or to loose a bet, among several other meanings.
                     
                    Killer-ubi. Actually spelled with an "a" underscored with a period "." and pronounced as a long u (can't do it on my computer), as in "tub" or "rub". You see this associated with a warriors name denoting he has killed in war.  It can also be used as murderer.

                    Stick-iti tapa.  A small wooden pole but not a war club. War club-iti tapena.

                    Fast (as in speed): chali. The "l" has a slash through it that denotes it is pronounced as an aspirated "l" and not a hard "l". Palhki also means fleet or quick.
                     
                    Hope that helps.  Glad you asked about fast, I actually added an "n" to the Choctaw word which didn't properly translate.
                     
                    dud

                    --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    From: Ken D. Bueche <kdbueche@yahoo. com>
                    Subject: [indianmilitia] words
                    To: "Indian Militia" <indianmilitia@ yahoogroups. com>
                    Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:40 PM

                     
                    I cant find my choctaw or mobilian dictionary.
                    Any of yall know where there is one on line to view?
                     
                    I need the words for
                     
                    Elk
                    Death
                    word for killer or slayer or hunter
                    stick
                    quick or fast
                     
                    Thanks
                    KDB


                     



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