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[Illuminati New World Order] Re: Dead dead dead

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  • smacinwo
    ... Well, I guess it wasn t that they wewre broken, it s that they were...well boring. Aside from about maybe 10%-15% of the cards, most of the Plots and
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 18, 2004
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      > Personally I don't think that any of the cards were broken (though
      > there is a very powerful plotr or two) - and I actually like a lot
      > of the cards for what they do. It would just have been so much
      > cooler if they hadn't been CotSG-based.
      >
      > My INWO friends dislike the cards for being nonsensical and
      > decidedly unfunny. We all got into INWO because of the whole
      > political satire thing, and CotSG definately isn't it.

      Well, I guess it wasn't that they wewre broken, it's that they
      were...well boring. Aside from about maybe 10%-15% of the cards,
      most of the Plots and Groups were simple rehashes of cards that are
      already made. This, of course, was necessary since CotSG was a
      standalone game, so stuff like "Murphy's Law" was translated into a
      different CotSB-based card with the same ability (and, usually, a
      slightly different cost). Yes, the primary selling point of INWO
      (and, I might add, Illuminati) was the political satire. And CotSG
      just blew.

      > Mind you, we weren't too fond of the assassins set either. We all
      > love group based decks, and Assassins had few interesting groups -
      > and none of them common. And the common plots weren't even that
      > interesting!
      > Zaps, paralyzes, freezes? ZZzzzZZ Zzz!

      Actually, aside from the "broken" cards, Assassins was welcome in
      our group, because it filled in a few gaps and left a lot of new
      options. I do wish, like you, of course, that more Groups were
      added, though I'm also glad they weren't Common (I have enough
      copies of the Telephone Psychics, thank you, and I don't need an
      equal number of Swingers).

      I, personally, like Zaps, Freezes, and Paralysises (eses?) but find
      they're too expensive to power. If a few more Plot cards/special
      abilities allowed different ways to power these types of cards, I
      think they'd be viable.

      > My dream expansion would contain this in 1 box:
      > The 100 BFD cards
      > The 100 Assassins cards
      > The ~15 German Uniques

      I agree. And I know plenty that will shell out the cash for such a
      set. Likewise, I don't mind if they add CotSB cards, but I'd only
      welcome them if they were "translated"--i.e., they were converted
      from CotSB to political satire, which, quite frankly, wouldn't be
      *that* hard to do. As much as I dislike CotSB, there *were* a few
      good cards in the set.
    • plasmoid_dk
      Hi again, I went ahead and created a list of which CotSG cards I consider to be worth keeping/translating. I posted it to the INWO list so as not to run the
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 19, 2004
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        Hi again,
        I went ahead and created a list of which CotSG cards I consider to be
        worth keeping/translating. I posted it to the INWO list so as not to
        run the discussion in 2 places. I hope you are on the list too.

        Everyone is welcome to give feedback or create their own list.
        If you are not on the inwo mailing list, then you can see past
        messages here:
        http://www.sjgames.com/pipermail/inwo-list/

        Cheers
        Martin :)
      • Tim Gatewood
        Dear Martin, Okay, it has taken me several minutes to back-trace this message topic to find this one message that spells out what the BFD deck is. (I thought
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 22, 2004
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          Dear Martin,

          Okay, it has taken me several minutes to back-trace this message
          topic to find this one message that spells out what the "BFD deck"
          is. (I thought it might be the Big F*ing Deck, but that is the One
          With Everything- grin.) For clarity's sake, maybe we could all agree
          to avoid using initials that refer back to messages from 7 months
          ago? Please !

          I called myself keeping up with all the rumors about INWO and
          Illuminati the game, and I had never heard of the Bavarian Fire Drill
          deck. It does appear that there is a new INWO-based deck coming out
          (see the SJ Games website) - but nothing is said about BFD. What can
          you tell us (me) about it?

          And, no, the game is not "dead" -- it just requires a certain
          awareness of politics for the satire to be meaningful, and a certain
          twisted mentality to get the jokes. In short, it is not for the
          average "rule player" gamer, nor for the MTV-generation computer
          gamer who expects lights, bells, whistles, and impossibly-built-yet-
          scantily-clad females in their games.

          -- Tim G in Memphis, the land of dead and living Kings and Pyramids,
          an Illuminati player since 1985 or so

          ***********
          --- In illuminatinewworldorder@yahoogroups.com, plasmoid_dk
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Hi all,
          > is it just me or is INWO finally dead in the water.
          >
          > Was it because Assassins was weak?
          > Was it because SubGenius was worse?
          > Was it because Bavarian Fire Drill never came out?
          > Or was it simply because the learning curve was too steep?
          >
          > You tell me,
          > if anyone is still here that is :/
          > Martin
        • smacinwo
          ... can ... The game promoted on the INWO home page is Illuminati: Crime Lords, which is not compatible with either Illuminati or INWO. It is designed as a
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 22, 2004
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            > It does appear that there is a new INWO-based deck coming out
            > (see the SJ Games website) - but nothing is said about BFD. What
            can
            > you tell us (me) about it?

            The game promoted on the INWO home page is Illuminati: Crime Lords,
            which is not compatible with either Illuminati or INWO. It is
            designed as a standalone game, much like the horrid SubGenius, and
            it uses many of the same mechanics as Illuminati and INWO, but it is
            an entirely different game.

            There *is* a page for BFD, but it's less than informative:

            http://www.sjgames.com/inwo/bfd.html

            Also, Steve Jackson has gone on record stating that INWO is no
            longer being actively supported. Granted, Deluxe INWO came out after
            he said that, so perhaps the interest in Deluxe INWO will tell him
            whether it's worth releasing BFD. (Deluxe INWO is, in fact, out of
            print, and did so in what seems to be a short amount of time.
            Whether that is due to hightened interest or a simple clearing out
            of the existing stock, I don't know.)

            > And, no, the game is not "dead" -- it just requires a certain
            > awareness of politics for the satire to be meaningful, and a
            certain
            > twisted mentality to get the jokes. In short, it is not for the
            > average "rule player" gamer, nor for the MTV-generation computer
            > gamer who expects lights, bells, whistles, and impossibly-built-
            yet-
            > scantily-clad females in their games.

            I'll say it's one of the most intelligent games out there, and yet
            still fun...which might be part of its apparent lull. It's good
            social satire, but it can be dated, and the cards desperately need
            to be updated to keep it fresh. Unfortunately, the market draw
            of "updating" the cards is largely expensive for a game with such a
            dwindling fan base.

            Although I still expect impossible-built-yet-scandily-clad females
            in all of my games.
          • plasmoid_dk
            Hi Smac, ... What? Aw man :/ I recently sold an INWO article to Pyramid and decided to get paid in store credit just to get Deluxe INWO. Then they sat on my
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 23, 2004
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              Hi Smac,
              >Deluxe INWO is, in fact, out of print, and did so in what seems to
              >be a short amount of time.

              What? Aw man :/
              I recently sold an INWO article to Pyramid and decided to get paid
              in store credit just to get Deluxe INWO. Then they sat on my voucher
              for a few months, and now you're telling me it's out of print.
              *sigh*

              Martin
            • smacinwo
              ... be ... to ... Thanks, Martin. I agree mostly with your choices with cards to keep, though personally I would just drop the SubGenius attribute and all
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 25, 2004
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                --- In illuminatinewworldorder@yahoogroups.com, plasmoid_dk
                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > Hi again,
                > I went ahead and created a list of which CotSG cards I consider to
                be
                > worth keeping/translating. I posted it to the INWO list so as not
                to
                > run the discussion in 2 places. I hope you are on the list too.
                >
                > Everyone is welcome to give feedback or create their own list.
                > If you are not on the inwo mailing list, then you can see past
                > messages here:
                > http://www.sjgames.com/pipermail/inwo-list/
                >
                > Cheers
                > Martin :)

                Thanks, Martin. I agree mostly with your choices with cards to keep,
                though personally I would just drop the SubGenius attribute and all
                cards that deal directly with just affecting SubGenius groups.

                "Translating" the cards are a bit harder than I thought, especially
                if we're trying to keep the same Power/Alignments/Attributes/etc. I
                have made a few changes, but not many, and I've noted these changes
                and other alternate ideas below the cards.

                I'm certainly not going to do each one--in fact, below are only six.
                I'll leave you all to do the others.) By no means are
                these "translations" all that good--I did it in about ten minutes
                pretty much off the top of my head--so please add your own ideas,
                changes, etc.

                ---

                Name: Roswell
                Type: Place
                Text: If an attack to destroy against this group succeeds, they are
                returned to the owning player's hand and do not count as destroyed.
                Alignments: None
                Attributes: Space
                Power: 5/5
                Resistance: 5
                Arrows: L, R, B

                [This was turned into a Place; the Xists are an Organization. This
                makes its large Power (this group has the largest Global Power for
                an Organization except for the Democrats) a little bit weaker,
                though quite frankly it's still out of proportion. I would lower it
                to maybe 3/3 and give it an actual useful ability.]

                Name: Church of Middle America (same title)
                Type: Organization
                Text: Any Straight or Conservative group that directly controls the
                Church of Middle America gets +2 to its Power (and Global Power, if
                it already had it).
                Alignments: Straight, Conservative, Peaceful
                Attributes: Church
                Power: 3/1
                Resistance: 4
                Arrows: L, R

                Name: Blogs (replaces Divine Mail Order)
                Type: Organization
                Text: You may spend its action to draw a Plot card. You may spend
                its action, along with an Illuminati action, to draw three Plot
                cards.
                Alignments: Corporate
                Attributes: Media, Computer
                Power: 2
                Resistance: 3
                Arrows: L, R, B

                [Added the Computer attribute. www.subgenius.com would seem to be a
                better "translation," but since that card's special ability is
                already duplicated in the original INWO I don't see much of a need
                to translate it. I thought about "Daily Newspapers" as an
                alternative but it didn't seem conspiratorial enough to suggest,
                though it could work like the Local Police Departments and be unable
                to be destroyed.]

                Name: Raeliens (replaces League for Obvious Decency)
                Type: Organization
                Text: By spending their action, you may force a player to return two
                exposed Plots to the top of the owning player's Plot deck.
                Alignments: Weird, Conservative
                Attributes: N/A
                Power: 1
                Resistance: 3
                Arrows: None

                [They should probably also be Church. I'm not sure if I would
                consider them Conservative, either, though they are definitely
                Weird. This group should have a better special ability, though.]

                Name: Utah (replaces Speakers in Tongues)
                Type: Place
                Text: You get a +3 for any attempt to control a Church group.
                Alignments: Weird, Conservative, Fanatic
                Attributes: N/A
                Power: 1
                Resistance: 3
                Arrows: None

                [This was also turned into a Place. I'm not sure if I would consider
                Utah "Weird" though, and I hesitate to just make the Group
                the "Mormons". I can't think of any popular religion that would have
                a wide enough influence to grant a bonus to any attempt to control a
                Church but that is also out of mainstream enough to be considered
                Weird. If we dropped "Weird" we probably can come up with some good
                alternatives.]

                Name: Drug Informants (replaces S.L.A.K.)
                Type: Organization
                Text: If this group does not have an Action Token at the beginning
                of any player's turn, they get one.
                Alignments: Violent, Fanatic
                Attributes: N/A
                Power: 2
                Resistance: 5
                Arrows: B

                [I'd like to add something like "School of Protest,"
                or "Protestors," but that's an obviously made up name. There's a
                cottage industry, at least in America and Europe, of people who hold
                seminars and classes to protest things like the IMF and other global
                organizations; this was most prominent for Americans during the
                Seattle protests a few years ago. It's actually quite an advanced
                network of people, and it's ripe for a conspiracy theory, but
                there's no actual name or organization that is funny/well-known
                enough to translate or parody. Someday there may.]
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