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Still Need Help with 185

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  • Kristi Nelson
    Hello again! I posted several days ago about needing some help troubleshooting a lo-boy 185. I have not seen any replies yet. Can anybody offer some advice
    Message 1 of 18 , May 1, 2009
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      Hello again!

      I posted several days ago about needing some help troubleshooting a lo-boy 185. I have not seen any replies yet. Can anybody offer some advice about where to start?

      Thank you!
    • Tim Stone
      Hi Kristi, didn t see you original post but start with basics.. Is the problem getting it to start.. If so start with checking the basics. Will it turn over?
      Message 2 of 18 , May 1, 2009
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        Hi Kristi, didn't see you original post but start with basics.. Is the problem getting it to start.. If so start with checking the basics. Will it turn over? Will it fire at all? Then start with check for spark, next fuel delivery and finally timing..

        The guys on this board like Kent and others are pretty good here so drop back some specifics...

        Best Regards
        Tim S...

        --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Kristi Nelson <cnknelson@...> wrote:
        From: Kristi Nelson <cnknelson@...>
        Subject: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185
        To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 9:42 AM

        Hello again!

        I posted several days ago about needing some help troubleshooting a lo-boy 185. I have not seen any replies yet. Can anybody offer some advice about where to start?

        Thank you!


      • Kristi Nelson
        Hi Tim, Thank you for replying! It will not start. It will turn over sometimes. Not all the time. When it does turn over, we are getting spark and we are
        Message 3 of 18 , May 2, 2009
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          Hi Tim,

          Thank you for replying! It will not start. It will turn over sometimes. Not all the time. When it does turn over, we are getting spark and we are getting fuel. Have not checked the timing yet. Will do that next.

          Thank you,
          Kristi

          --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, Tim Stone <tpstone3756@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Kristi, didn't see you original post but start with basics.. Is the problem getting it to start.. If so start with checking the basics. Will it turn over? Will it fire at all? Then start with check for spark, next fuel delivery and finally timing..
          >
          > The guys on this board like Kent and others are pretty good here so drop back some specifics...
          >
          > Best Regards
          > Tim S...
          >
          > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Kristi Nelson <cnknelson@...> wrote:
          > From: Kristi Nelson <cnknelson@...>
          > Subject: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185
          > To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 9:42 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
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          >
          >
          > Hello again!
          >
          >
          >
          > I posted several days ago about needing some help troubleshooting a lo-boy 185. I have not seen any replies yet. Can anybody offer some advice about where to start?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thank you!
          >
        • David Rust
          Kristi, we had a cub onetime we had the head off of, it wouldn t start after we put it back, didn t matter what we tried. So we put a rope around the front
          Message 4 of 18 , May 2, 2009
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            Kristi, we had a cub onetime we had the head off of, it wouldn't start after we put it back, didn't matter what we tried.
             
            So we put a rope around the front axle, put it in second or third gear and pulled it until it did start.  As I recall it took a while, but it started and ran thereafter.  We never did know what that was about, but you might try pulling it.  If you are like me, you will only mess with something so long, then its time to regroup and try something "desperate".  Just get it rolling and let the clutch out, don't get too fast, just enough to make it turn over like a normal engine speed.  See what that does.
             
            DaveR
          • Mike Sloane
            Check the position of the plug wires in the distributor: the distributor runs counterclockwise as you look from the top, and the no. 1 wire should be at about
            Message 5 of 18 , May 2, 2009
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              Check the position of the plug wires in the distributor: the distributor
              runs counterclockwise as you look from the top, and the no. 1 wire
              should be at about "2 o'clock". I believe the firing order (from memory)
              is 1-2-4-3. I have had similar problems with C-60 engines not wanting to
              start because of that.

              As far as refusing to turn over, I strongly recommend checking ALL of
              the grounds - from the battery box right up to the starter. Remove
              *every* ground connection, clean it off with a wire brush or emery
              cloth, and secure it tightly. and that includes the mounting of the
              starter/generator.

              Mike

              Kristi Nelson wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Tim,
              >
              > Thank you for replying! It will not start. It will turn over sometimes.
              > Not all the time. When it does turn over, we are getting spark and we
              > are getting fuel. Have not checked the timing yet. Will do that next.
              >
              > Thank you,
              > Kristi
              >
            • Tim Stone
              Kristi, I agree with Mike on the grounds. Also you might want to have the battery checked. Usually Autozone or Advance will do this for free. A bad/shorted
              Message 6 of 18 , May 3, 2009
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                Kristi, I agree with Mike on the grounds. Also you might want to have the battery checked. Usually Autozone or Advance will do this for free. A bad/shorted cell not just week can cause the spark to be weak. Could also explain the not turning over all the time.
                 
                Tim S..

                --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote:
                From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...>
                Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185
                To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 9:00 AM

                Check the position of the plug wires in the distributor: the distributor
                runs counterclockwise as you look from the top, and the no. 1 wire
                should be at about "2 o'clock". I believe the firing order (from memory)
                is 1-2-4-3. I have had similar problems with C-60 engines not wanting to
                start because of that.

                As far as refusing to turn over, I strongly recommend checking ALL of
                the grounds - from the battery box right up to the starter. Remove
                *every* ground connection, clean it off with a wire brush or emery
                cloth, and secure it tightly. and that includes the mounting of the
                starter/generator.

                Mike

                Kristi Nelson wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Tim,
                >
                > Thank you for replying! It will not start. It will turn over sometimes.
                > Not all the time. When it does turn over, we are getting spark and we
                > are getting fuel. Have not checked the timing yet. Will do that next.
                >
                > Thank you,
                > Kristi
                >

              • Kristi Nelson
                Thank you for all the suggestions. Here is another symptom we have uncovered. When checking compression, it bounces to 30 and back to zero. It will not hold
                Message 7 of 18 , May 3, 2009
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                  Thank you for all the suggestions. Here is another symptom we have uncovered. When checking compression, it bounces to 30 and back to zero. It will not hold any compression. The tractor never has used oil or smoked. We know that could be caused by a couple problems, blown head gasket, rings, etc. Any suggestions?

                  Kristi
                • Mike Sloane
                  The pressure rises and falls as the engine performs its normal 4 stroke operation, as the valves open and close. On all compression testers I have ever used,
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 3, 2009
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                    The pressure rises and falls as the engine performs its normal 4 stroke
                    operation, as the valves open and close. On all compression testers I
                    have ever used, the needle on the dial stays at the highest reading,
                    until it is released.

                    On the other hand, a reading of 30 psi on any one cylinder would
                    indicate either broken rings or something wrong with the valves (burned,
                    broken, sticking, out of adjustment, bad cam, etc.). The usual test
                    after the first one is to dump a couple of ounces into the cylinder and
                    repeat the test. If the compression reading rises noticeably after the
                    second test, that usually indicates a problem with the rings. If the
                    compression doesn't go up, that is usually a problem with the valves.

                    Mike

                    Kristi Nelson wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you for all the suggestions. Here is another symptom we have
                    > uncovered. When checking compression, it bounces to 30 and back to zero.
                    > It will not hold any compression. The tractor never has used oil or
                    > smoked. We know that could be caused by a couple problems, blown head
                    > gasket, rings, etc. Any suggestions?
                    >
                    > Kristi
                    >
                  • rez616@aol.com
                    As in any diagnosis, accurate and complete information is needed!!! Also test equipment needs to be in working order and the person doing the testing needs to
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 4, 2009
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                      As in any diagnosis, accurate and complete information is needed!!! Also test equipment needs to be in working order and the person doing the testing needs to know how the equipment works. A compression gauge has a schrader valve (like a tire valve) that keeps the pressure stored in the gauge until the operator releases it. A low pressure reading, as stated by Mike could be rings or valve train problem. A wet test will futher determine what is the cause for low compression.  A low reading on two cylinders adjacent to each other usually indicates a blown head gasket between the two cylinders. Pressure in the cooling system while cranking and/or coolant in the cylinder is usually a blown head gasket. Rich


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                    • Kristi Nelson
                      That is true about using the equipment. We do know how to use the compression gauge. We even tested it on another machine to make sure something wasn t wrong
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 5, 2009
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                        That is true about using the equipment. We do know how to use the compression gauge. We even tested it on another machine to make sure something wasn't wrong with the gauge. It worked fine on the other machine. Definitely something going on in there. Wet test did not create different results so we are looking further.

                        Thank you!

                        --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, rez616@... wrote:
                        >
                        > As in any diagnosis, accurate and complete information is needed!!! Also
                        > test equipment needs to be in working order and the person doing the testing
                        > needs to know how the equipment works. A compression gauge has a schrader
                        > valve (like a tire valve) that keeps the pressure stored in the gauge until
                        > the operator releases it. A low pressure reading, as stated by Mike could
                        > be rings or valve train problem. A wet test will futher determine what is
                        > the cause for low compression. A low reading on two cylinders adjacent to
                        > each other usually indicates a blown head gasket between the two cylinders.
                        > Pressure in the cooling system while cranking and/or coolant in the cylinder
                        > is usually a blown head gasket. Rich
                        > **************2009 3 Free CREDIT SCORES: See Your 3 Credit Scores from All
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                        > tAndScore.aspx%3FID%3D91831F371F138345B53A153F49D4D872%26siteid%3De927580bf7
                        > )
                        >
                      • Tim Stone
                        Umm not all have a schrader valve.. My old compression tester from the 70 s doesn t.. So basically you have to watch it and the valves to know when you re on
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 5, 2009
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                          Umm not all have a schrader valve.. My old compression tester from the 70's doesn't.. So basically you have to watch it and the valves to know when you're on the compression stroke. But it will show a sticky valve faster as that condition won't allow the tester to fall off as it should. So you need to know what type of tester you have and how to use it.. I agree with the wet test proving rings vs valves. Blown head gasket gets a little tricky as from a compression stand point where the gasket is blown. Cyl to water jacket, Cyl to cyl, Cyl to oil jacket or cyl to outside. Each situation will cause a different reading on the tester.
                           
                          Keep in mind that worn rings usually won't keep an engine from firing. It will stumble a lot but usually will fire. Also a little starting fluid will get you past the does it have spark at a resonable right time.
                           
                          So for troubleshooting purposes make sure you cover the bases first on each before moving to the next. Are you sure you have fuel (air gas mix correct) first. Starting fluid will help answer that. Have you checked spark at each of the plugs. (does the engine sound like it tries to hit? I will say that the compression does seem way low on one of the cyl but don't really know how worn the block, rings and valves are so???
                           
                          Noodle through each of the 3 basic areas to be convinced that all is well before you move on. Troubleshoot to know not guess..
                           
                          Tim S...

                          --- On Mon, 5/4/09, rez616@... <rez616@...> wrote:
                          From: rez616@... <rez616@...>
                          Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185
                          To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 9:03 AM

                          As in any diagnosis, accurate and complete information is needed!!! Also test equipment needs to be in working order and the person doing the testing needs to know how the equipment works. A compression gauge has a schrader valve (like a tire valve) that keeps the pressure stored in the gauge until the operator releases it. A low pressure reading, as stated by Mike could be rings or valve train problem. A wet test will futher determine what is the cause for low compression.  A low reading on two cylinders adjacent to each other usually indicates a blown head gasket between the two cylinders. Pressure in the cooling system while cranking and/or coolant in the cylinder is usually a blown head gasket. Rich


                          2009 3 Free CREDIT SCORES: See Your 3 Credit Scores from All 3 Bureaus FREE!

                        • Kristi Nelson
                          Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source that provides more advice than lectures. Have a great day!
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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                            Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source that provides more advice than lectures.

                            Have a great day!
                          • Jim Wulf
                            I found absolutely nothing offensive or condescending in Tim s post. Your reply however, was rude. He was genuinely trying to help you out, and took the time
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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                              I found absolutely nothing offensive or condescending in Tim's post.
                              Your reply however, was rude. He was genuinely trying to help you out,
                              and took the time to thoroughly try and diagnose your problem, and did
                              it quite well.

                              Jim W
                              '60 LoBoy



                              On May 6, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Kristi Nelson wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source
                              > that provides more advice than lectures.
                              >
                              > Have a great day!
                              >
                              >
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                            • Robert
                              I completely agree with you, Jim. When I need help the last thing I want to do is to be rude to anyone who is willing to take their time to try to help me.
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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                                I completely agree with you, Jim. When I need help the last thing I want to do is to be rude to anyone who is willing to take their time to try to help me.

                                Robert


                                From: Jim Wulf <jwulf5@...>
                                To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 11:30:58 AM
                                Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185

                                I found absolutely nothing offensive or condescending in Tim's post. 
                                Your reply however, was rude. He was genuinely trying to help you out, 
                                and took the time to thoroughly try and diagnose your problem, and did 
                                it quite well.

                                Jim W
                                '60 LoBoy



                                On May 6, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Kristi Nelson wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source 
                                > that provides more advice than lectures.
                                >
                                > Have a great day!
                                >
                                >
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                              • Jeremy Conaway
                                Wow! If you consider an attempt on someone s part to do a step-by-step troubleshooting procedure to be a lecture, it strikes me that you probably grew up (or
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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                                  Wow! If you consider an attempt on someone's part to do a step-by-step
                                  troubleshooting procedure to be a lecture, it strikes me that you probably
                                  grew up (or more accurately DIDN'T grow up) as an only child and a very
                                  spoiled one at that. Can you tell us what else exactly you were looking for
                                  when you asked that question?
                                  I'm glad I wasn't the one who spent MY time trying to help, only to get
                                  slapped in the face for absolutely no reason.

                                  JC

                                  ------ Original Message ------
                                  Received: 10:59 AM CDT, 05/06/2009
                                  From: "Kristi Nelson" <cnknelson@...>
                                  To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185

                                  > Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source that
                                  provides more advice than lectures.
                                  >
                                  > Have a great day!
                                  >
                                  >
                                • carmen papa
                                  I agree 100% with jwulf! ... From: Jim Wulf Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185 To:
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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                                    I agree 100% with jwulf!

                                    --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Jim Wulf <jwulf5@...> wrote:
                                    From: Jim Wulf <jwulf5@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185
                                    To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 12:30 PM

                                    I found absolutely nothing offensive or condescending in Tim's post.  
                                    Your reply however, was rude. He was genuinely trying to help you out,  
                                    and took the time to thoroughly try and diagnose your problem, and did  
                                    it quite well.
                                    
                                    Jim W
                                    '60 LoBoy
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    On May 6, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Kristi Nelson wrote:
                                    
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source  
                                    > that provides more advice than lectures.
                                    >
                                    > Have a great day!
                                    >
                                    > 
                                    > <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial;  
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                                    > 0; overflow: hidden; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color:  
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                                    > span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font- 
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                                    > { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } -->
                                    
                                    
                                    
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                                  • dixiwillie
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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                                      --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Conaway" <jconaway@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Wow! If you consider an attempt on someone's part to do a step-by-step
                                      > troubleshooting procedure to be a lecture, it strikes me that you probably
                                      > grew up (or more accurately DIDN'T grow up) as an only child and a very
                                      > spoiled one at that. Can you tell us what else exactly you were looking for
                                      > when you asked that question?
                                      > I'm glad I wasn't the one who spent MY time trying to help, only to get
                                      > slapped in the face for absolutely no reason.
                                      >
                                      > JC
                                      >
                                      > ------ Original Message ------
                                      > Received: 10:59 AM CDT, 05/06/2009
                                      > From: "Kristi Nelson" <cnknelson@...>
                                      > To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185
                                      >
                                      > > Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source that
                                      > provides more advice than lectures.
                                      > >
                                      > > Have a great day!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >I guess the only way you can give SOME people advice (that by the way is advice THEY asked for)without offending them, is to say that the problem they're experiencing is probably something they overlooked......yeah...that outa help.
                                    • Dwayne Perry
                                      How else are you to learn how to fix something unless you don.t want to fallow some direction.s in life Tim took his time to help you
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 7, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        How else are you to learn how to fix something unless you don.t want to fallow some direction.s in life Tim took his time to help you


                                        From: Jim Wulf <jwulf5@...>
                                        To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:30:58 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Still Need Help with 185

                                        I found absolutely nothing offensive or condescending in Tim's post. 
                                        Your reply however, was rude. He was genuinely trying to help you out, 
                                        and took the time to thoroughly try and diagnose your problem, and did 
                                        it quite well.

                                        Jim W
                                        '60 LoBoy



                                        On May 6, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Kristi Nelson wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for the input Tim. Fortunately, we have found another source 
                                        > that provides more advice than lectures.
                                        >
                                        > Have a great day!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; 
                                        > margin: 14px 0px; padding: 0px 14px; } #ygrp-mkp hr{ border: 1px 
                                        > solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-
                                        > weight: bold; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0px; } #ygrp-mkp 
                                        > #ads{ margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad{ padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-
                                        > mkp .ad a{ color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } --> <!-- #ygrp-
                                        > sponsor #ygrp-lc{ font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc 
                                        > #hd{ margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: bold; font-size: 78%; line-
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                                        > input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;} #ygrp-
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                                        > {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family: Georgia;    } #ygrp-
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                                        > Verdana; font-size: 77%; margin: 0; } #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding: 0 
                                        > 1px; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{       padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-reco 
                                        > { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { font-
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                                        > #reco-desc{ font-size: 77%; } #ygrp-vital a{ text-decoration: 
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                                        > #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-
                                        > size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-
                                        > decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: 
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                                        > { margin-right: 0; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, 
                                        > div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-
                                        > decoration: none; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, 
                                        > div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration: 
                                        > none; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count { clear: both; padding: 15px 0 3px 
                                        > 0; overflow: hidden; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: 
                                        > #1E66AE; font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a 
                                        > span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-
                                        > weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 
                                        > 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a 
                                        > { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } -->



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