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Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] ? Hand crank 154

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  • Mike Sloane
    As a rule of thumb , when a tractor starter turn over slowly, the first thing you need to do is check the grounds. The starter/generator on those engines have
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 4, 2007
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      As a "rule of thumb", when a tractor starter turn over slowly, the first
      thing you need to do is check the grounds. The starter/generator on
      those engines have more than enough power to spin the engine over quite
      nicely, if, and only if, it gets the full battery voltage. You need to
      check the ground at the battery and make sure that all the fasteners all
      along the way are bright and shiny.

      Mike

      choover48 wrote:
      >
      >
      > Anyone ever try setting up a 154 to hand crank start?
      >
      > With a charged battery and even boosting from another vehicle directly
      > to the starter/gen, my 154 will barely turn over in cold weather. A
      > risky hand pull assist on the belt will sometimes get it going. I
      > thought the starter may have been weak so I sent it out to a reputable
      > rebuilder and it came back $100 later with new brushes, bearings and
      > regulator and reported to be OK otherwise. It has no more power than
      > before.
      >
      > I hoped to run new wiring from the battery but the condition of the
      > steering column doesn't invite me to pull it to access the connections
      > under the panel. The fact that boosting directly to the starter
      > doesn't seem to help much, suggests i wouldn't gain much by rewiring.
      >
      > I pulled the grill off and would be willing to drill an access hole to
      > insert a crank but then what. I safely cranked many a bigger tractor
      > in my youth without incident after being shown by a savvy Ag shop
      > teacher how to keep my thumb out of the way. Any suggestions would be
      > much appreciated.
      >
      > Cliff
      >

      --
      Mike Sloane
      Allamuchy NJ
      <mikesloane@...>
      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

      It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter
      than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side.
      -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007
    • Dave Carter
      I found if my 154 is kept in good tune even though the temp gets below zero and it cranks VERY slow it still fires right up. I probably should use something
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 5, 2007
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        I found if my 154 is kept in good tune even though the temp gets below
        zero and it cranks VERY slow it still fires right up. I probably should
        use something thinner than the straight 30 weight also but like I said
        it fires right up. The other morn it was 15 below.
      • bigbill154cub
        The suggestions here are correct. I would clean the battery connections first, Charge the battery and then try to start it again. What weight oil do you
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 7, 2007
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          The suggestions here are correct. I would clean the battery
          connections first, Charge the battery and then try to start it
          again. What weight oil do you have in? That matters too in the
          very cold temps a heavy weight oil like 30wt is thicker than honey.
          You need to run 5/20 or 5/30 in cold weather if its left in the cold.

          I have a new battery and 5/15 oil in it and it starts everytime in a
          cold garage.

          Once you get it to start:
          My dad taught me a trick with the old handchoke cars and the old
          hand choke tractors in the cold weather. When he is going to shut it
          off he pulls out the choke as it just stops turning over to prime
          the cylinders for the next cold start. My cub starts like i have
          electronic fuel injection everytime its that quick.







          --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, "choover48" <choover48@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Anyone ever try setting up a 154 to hand crank start?
          >
          > With a charged battery and even boosting from another vehicle
          directly
          > to the starter/gen, my 154 will barely turn over in cold weather.
          A
          > risky hand pull assist on the belt will sometimes get it going. I
          > thought the starter may have been weak so I sent it out to a
          reputable
          > rebuilder and it came back $100 later with new brushes, bearings
          and
          > regulator and reported to be OK otherwise. It has no more power
          than
          > before.
          >
          > I hoped to run new wiring from the battery but the condition of
          the
          > steering column doesn't invite me to pull it to access the
          connections
          > under the panel. The fact that boosting directly to the starter
          > doesn't seem to help much, suggests i wouldn't gain much by
          rewiring.
          >
          > I pulled the grill off and would be willing to drill an access
          hole to
          > insert a crank but then what. I safely cranked many a bigger
          tractor
          > in my youth without incident after being shown by a savvy Ag shop
          > teacher how to keep my thumb out of the way. Any suggestions would
          be
          > much appreciated.
          >
          > Cliff
          >
        • russih154
          ... directly ... A ... reputable ... and ... than ... the ... connections ... rewiring. ... hole to ... tractor ... be
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 7, 2007
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            --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, "choover48" <choover48@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Anyone ever try setting up a 154 to hand crank start?
            >
            > With a charged battery and even boosting from another vehicle
            directly
            > to the starter/gen, my 154 will barely turn over in cold weather.
            A
            > risky hand pull assist on the belt will sometimes get it going. I
            > thought the starter may have been weak so I sent it out to a
            reputable
            > rebuilder and it came back $100 later with new brushes, bearings
            and
            > regulator and reported to be OK otherwise. It has no more power
            than
            > before.
            >
            > I hoped to run new wiring from the battery but the condition of
            the
            > steering column doesn't invite me to pull it to access the
            connections
            > under the panel. The fact that boosting directly to the starter
            > doesn't seem to help much, suggests i wouldn't gain much by
            rewiring.
            >
            > I pulled the grill off and would be willing to drill an access
            hole to
            > insert a crank but then what. I safely cranked many a bigger
            tractor
            > in my youth without incident after being shown by a savvy Ag shop
            > teacher how to keep my thumb out of the way. Any suggestions would
            be
            > much appreciated.
            >
            > Cliff
            >
          • Jim Kennedy
            I have installed a loader on my 154 and the steering is difficult. I was considering installing power steering . I have an extra power assist value and power
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 7, 2007
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              I have installed a loader on my 154 and the steering is difficult. 
               
              I was considering installing "power steering".  I have an extra power assist value and power steering cylinder off a john Deere 400 garden tractor. 
               
              I also have a functional JD 400 that I could mirror the set up concerning the hydraulic line hookups and the installation of the assist valve and cylinder.  I am very satisfied with the ease of steering on the JD.
               
              Is anyone familiar with the John Deere 400 steering that could provide their opinion if this would be a major job or just a reasonably difficult one or if it is any possible? 
               
              Any feedback would be appreciated.
               
            • Mike Sloane
              One possible alternative to installing a power steering system on a loader equipped tractor is to build and install a counterweight in back. If you have a
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 8, 2007
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                One possible alternative to installing a power steering system on a
                loader equipped tractor is to build and install a counterweight in back.
                If you have a three-point hitch, you can build one using a plastic
                tub/barrel filled with scrap iron or concrete. About 300 pounds will do
                wonders for your rear tire traction and make the steering much easier. I
                did something similar with a Case farm tractor, and the difference was
                considerable. See:
                <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/case_430_ck/t_case_new_counterw.html>

                Mike

                Jim Kennedy wrote:
                >
                >
                > I have installed a loader on my 154 and the steering is difficult.
                >
                > I was considering installing "power steering". I have an extra power
                > assist value and power steering cylinder off a john Deere 400 garden
                > tractor.
                >
                > I also have a functional JD 400 that I could mirror the set up
                > concerning the hydraulic line hookups and the installation of the assist
                > valve and cylinder. I am very satisfied with the ease of steering on
                > the JD.
                >
                > Is anyone familiar with the John Deere 400 steering that could provide
                > their opinion if this would be a major job or just a reasonably
                > difficult one or if it is any possible?
                >
                > Any feedback would be appreciated.

                --
                Mike Sloane
                Allamuchy NJ
                <mikesloane@...>
                Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk.
                Joaquin Setanti
              • dixiwillie
                ... directly ... reputable ... and ... than ... connections ... rewiring. ... to ... tractor ... be ... Hey Cliff, I ve had a 154 for almost 30 yrs and I agree
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 9, 2007
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                  --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, "choover48" <choover48@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Anyone ever try setting up a 154 to hand crank start?
                  >
                  > With a charged battery and even boosting from another vehicle
                  directly
                  > to the starter/gen, my 154 will barely turn over in cold weather. A
                  > risky hand pull assist on the belt will sometimes get it going. I
                  > thought the starter may have been weak so I sent it out to a
                  reputable
                  > rebuilder and it came back $100 later with new brushes, bearings
                  and
                  > regulator and reported to be OK otherwise. It has no more power
                  than
                  > before.
                  >
                  > I hoped to run new wiring from the battery but the condition of the
                  > steering column doesn't invite me to pull it to access the
                  connections
                  > under the panel. The fact that boosting directly to the starter
                  > doesn't seem to help much, suggests i wouldn't gain much by
                  rewiring.
                  >
                  > I pulled the grill off and would be willing to drill an access hole
                  to
                  > insert a crank but then what. I safely cranked many a bigger
                  tractor
                  > in my youth without incident after being shown by a savvy Ag shop
                  > teacher how to keep my thumb out of the way. Any suggestions would
                  be
                  > much appreciated.
                  >
                  > Cliff
                  >
                  Hey Cliff, I've had a 154 for almost 30 yrs and I agree that if
                  everythings as it should be, there should be little trouble in
                  starting your tractor unless it's much colder that what I've
                  experienced here in N AL (I've started mine in temps as low as 10
                  degrees). In my humble opinion I would also think that if you can't
                  find the problem, it would be much easier to pull your tractor off
                  every now and then as opposed to trying to rig a hand crank. Good
                  luck,Stan Wilhite
                • bigbill154cub
                  ... directly ... A ... reputable ... and ... than ... the ... connections ... rewiring. ... hole to ... tractor ... be ... Ever think of using a heated dip
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 9, 2007
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                    --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, "choover48" <choover48@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Anyone ever try setting up a 154 to hand crank start?
                    >
                    > With a charged battery and even boosting from another vehicle
                    directly
                    > to the starter/gen, my 154 will barely turn over in cold weather.
                    A
                    > risky hand pull assist on the belt will sometimes get it going. I
                    > thought the starter may have been weak so I sent it out to a
                    reputable
                    > rebuilder and it came back $100 later with new brushes, bearings
                    and
                    > regulator and reported to be OK otherwise. It has no more power
                    than
                    > before.
                    >
                    > I hoped to run new wiring from the battery but the condition of
                    the
                    > steering column doesn't invite me to pull it to access the
                    connections
                    > under the panel. The fact that boosting directly to the starter
                    > doesn't seem to help much, suggests i wouldn't gain much by
                    rewiring.
                    >
                    > I pulled the grill off and would be willing to drill an access
                    hole to
                    > insert a crank but then what. I safely cranked many a bigger
                    tractor
                    > in my youth without incident after being shown by a savvy Ag shop
                    > teacher how to keep my thumb out of the way. Any suggestions would
                    be
                    > much appreciated.
                    >
                    > Cliff
                    >

                    Ever think of using a heated dip stick in the oil? It will heat the
                    engine enough so it will start easy. They do offer heaters with
                    circulator pumps for the radiator hose too. I think the heated dip
                    stick would be the way to go if your having problems starting.

                    Is the timing ok? When its cold with a slow turn over the ignition
                    timing has to be exact. I had plenty of the older chevy 6 volt
                    trucks and they always started slow but i had them tuned perfect.
                    These would turn over very slow too. BigBill
                  • Mike Sloane
                    Another very nice tool for cold winter starts is a magnetic pan heater. They are not expensive, and you just slap it on the pan and plug it in. The only
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 9, 2007
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                      Another very nice tool for cold winter starts is a magnetic pan heater.
                      They are not expensive, and you just slap it on the pan and plug it in.
                      The only important thing you have to do is run the extension cable
                      through your steering wheel, or you might hop on the tractor in the
                      middle of the night, start it up, and drive off with the heater still on
                      the pan. (Please don't ask me why I am making that suggestion.) You can
                      see a typical heater if you go to <www.valu-bilt.com> and look at item
                      no. 225490 for $33. This will also work on your car and truck, making
                      for faster warm-up and less wear on engine part from cold starts.

                      Mike

                      bigbill154cub wrote:
                      >

                      > >
                      >
                      > Ever think of using a heated dip stick in the oil? It will heat the
                      > engine enough so it will start easy. They do offer heaters with
                      > circulator pumps for the radiator hose too. I think the heated dip
                      > stick would be the way to go if your having problems starting.
                      >
                      > Is the timing ok? When its cold with a slow turn over the ignition
                      > timing has to be exact. I had plenty of the older chevy 6 volt
                      > trucks and they always started slow but i had them tuned perfect.
                      > These would turn over very slow too. BigBill
                      >

                      --
                      Mike Sloane
                      Allamuchy NJ
                      <mikesloane@...>
                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                      Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk.
                      Joaquin Setanti
                    • mc32spl
                      ... back. Mike, there s one other solution that costs less than one hundred dollars: buy a pair of mounted 600x12 trailer tires in load range D or E and use
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 11, 2007
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                        --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > One possible alternative to installing a power steering system on a
                        > loader equipped tractor is to build and install a counterweight in
                        back.

                        Mike, there's one other solution that costs less than one hundred
                        dollars: buy a pair of mounted 600x12 trailer tires in load range D
                        or E and use them in place of the standard turf tires and rims.

                        Don't have a loader on my 184, but with those "trailer tires" on the
                        frontend and a 5' box scraper on the 3 point, it essentially feels
                        like it has power steering when working the tractor. I did very
                        little actual lawn mowing with my tractor last year. Mostly knocked
                        down large areas of goldenrod, plus used the scraper for improvements
                        around my hunting camp driveway and "dug roads" in the woods. Never
                        did get around to putting the turf tires back on it.

                        Mowed the goldenrods and other weeds in low (184 came equipped with
                        creeper), with the deck up as far as it goes, then dropped it down
                        and mowed everything again a few days later, after the stuff had a
                        chance to dry out. Did a pretty fair job, considering it isn't
                        a "brush hog"
                      • Mike Sloane
                        I should caution anyone contemplating using a finish mower as a brush cutter that you will chew the blades up some and dull them quickly. This isn t a big
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12, 2007
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                          I should caution anyone contemplating using a finish mower as a brush
                          cutter that you will chew the blades up some and dull them quickly. This
                          isn't a big deal, unless you want to do finish lawn cutting with the
                          same mower - the cut will be ragged, and it will take a lot more power
                          to use the dull blades. You might want to consider one set of blades
                          used only for grass and another, sharpened at a much more blunt angle,
                          for brush. Another thing you might want to check is the tension on the
                          belt when you raise the mower - on some mower decks, the tension
                          increases significantly when you raise the deck, putting a strain on the
                          belt and the pulley. That is why the manuals for those decks tell you to
                          check the tension when the deck is all the way down. Whether this is
                          true for your deck depends on the idler pulley configuration - they are
                          all just a little bit different.

                          As far as using trailer tires for the front, they are a little easier
                          steering than the wide turf tires (and much more resistant to
                          punctures), but they won't help all that much with a front end loader,
                          since part of the problem is the additional weight on the steering
                          components, not just the tires. That is why a counterweight helps a lot
                          by taking weight off the front end. I should also point out that the
                          added strain on those somewhat lightweight steering components (tie rod
                          ends, steering gear, etc.) will take a toll on them fairly quickly -
                          they were not designed for the kinds of stress that the weight of a
                          loader provides. When you add power steering, all you are doing is
                          making it easier on the driver, not helping the hardware.

                          Mike

                          mc32spl wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:ihcubloboyseries%40yahoogroups.com>, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > One possible alternative to installing a power steering system on a
                          > > loader equipped tractor is to build and install a counterweight in
                          > back.
                          >
                          > Mike, there's one other solution that costs less than one hundred
                          > dollars: buy a pair of mounted 600x12 trailer tires in load range D
                          > or E and use them in place of the standard turf tires and rims.
                          >
                          > Don't have a loader on my 184, but with those "trailer tires" on the
                          > frontend and a 5' box scraper on the 3 point, it essentially feels
                          > like it has power steering when working the tractor. I did very
                          > little actual lawn mowing with my tractor last year. Mostly knocked
                          > down large areas of goldenrod, plus used the scraper for improvements
                          > around my hunting camp driveway and "dug roads" in the woods. Never
                          > did get around to putting the turf tires back on it.
                          >
                          > Mowed the goldenrods and other weeds in low (184 came equipped with
                          > creeper), with the deck up as far as it goes, then dropped it down
                          > and mowed everything again a few days later, after the stuff had a
                          > chance to dry out. Did a pretty fair job, considering it isn't
                          > a "brush hog"

                          --
                          Mike Sloane
                          Allamuchy NJ
                          <mikesloane@...>
                          Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                          Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                          Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk.
                          Joaquin Setanti
                        • mc32spl
                          All excellent points. My blades were about at the point where they would soon need sharpened and I had no further lawn use for the machine last summer, when I
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 13, 2007
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                            All excellent points.

                            My blades were about at the point where they would soon need
                            sharpened and I had no further lawn use for the machine last summer,
                            when I used it to mow goldenrods. I'll sharpen them later this year,
                            before I mow grass again with it. Didn't appear to place any undue
                            strain on the belts/pulleys either and having the creeper allowed me
                            to mow at a very slow rate. Doubt the 184 will get any more "weed"
                            duty, since I now have my Jubilee back, with its 6' Dearborn flail
                            mower. That thing is instant death on heavy weeds and light brush.

                            I have never been one to beat equipment to death, which is why I have
                            equipment that's over 50 years old, that still works fine.;o)

                            When I still worked in construction, one other feller and I ran an
                            International/Drott loader that had over 7000 hours on it when the
                            hour meter died. It ran like a top for many years afterwards, until
                            the steering clutches and under carriage finally gave up the ghost
                            and our boss swapped it on a new JD loader. That IH/Drott was almost
                            20 years old by then. When we traded it, the JD saleman asked how in
                            the world we ever gotten that much use out of the old machine. Told
                            him we'd worked it hard, but never abused it and it always got
                            serviced on a regular basis.
                          • Jim Kennedy
                            I am going to move my hydraulic pump (for my hydraulic loader) to the front of my tractor as it currently is driven from the PTO. I have a PTO reverser and
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 15, 2007
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                              I am going to move my hydraulic pump (for my hydraulic loader) to the front of my tractor as it currently is driven from the PTO. I have a PTO reverser and plan to operate my three point finish mower with the rear PTO and leave my loader mounted.
                               
                              My questions are as follows (I realize that some of these can be answered from my operations manual, but I figured I would get some feedback from the other members):
                               
                              If I were to drive my pump from the fan belt, would the approximate RPMs of the belt movement be the same as that of the PTO? 
                               
                              How much resistance is needed on the starter/generator pulley for it to operate normally (I am considering installing the pump on the alternator/starter side of the tractor)?
                               
                              Does the PTO pulleys turn at the same approximate RPMs as the PTO shaft?  I assume there is a difference due to the size of the respective pulleys?
                               
                              I am considering mounting the pump to the one of the PTO pulleys.  How effectively will the PTO operate with only one belt? 
                               
                              any feedback would be appreciated.
                               
                            • Mike Sloane
                              Jim - I am not entirely sure from your descriptions what you have and what you are trying to do. But most of your questions can be answered by applying a
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 16, 2007
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                                Jim - I am not entirely sure from your descriptions what you have and
                                what you are trying to do. But most of your questions can be answered by
                                applying a little high school physics - remember the stuff about pulleys
                                and belts? The larger the pulley on the drive shaft, the faster the belt
                                moves and just the opposite for the driven shaft. The calculations are
                                pretty straight forward and probably be found fairly easily on the web.
                                Here is one I found with a quick Google search, but there are many more:
                                <http://www.csgnetwork.com/pulleybeltcalc.html>

                                The only thing you have to know is your crankshaft/PTO shaft speed,
                                which you should know if your engine is running at its proper maximum
                                speed, according to the manual. (You didn't say which tractor you have.)

                                Mike

                                Jim Kennedy wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I am going to move my hydraulic pump (for my hydraulic loader) to the
                                > front of my tractor as it currently is driven from the PTO. I have a PTO
                                > reverser and plan to operate my three point finish mower with the rear
                                > PTO and leave my loader mounted.
                                >
                                > My questions are as follows (I realize that some of these can be
                                > answered from my operations manual, but I figured I would get some
                                > feedback from the other members):
                                >
                                > If I were to drive my pump from the fan belt, would the approximate RPMs
                                > of the belt movement be the same as that of the PTO?
                                >
                                > How much resistance is needed on the starter/generator pulley for it to
                                > operate normally (I am considering installing the pump on the
                                > alternator/starter side of the tractor)?
                                >
                                > Does the PTO pulleys turn at the same approximate RPMs as the PTO
                                > shaft? I assume there is a difference due to the size of the respective
                                > pulleys?
                                >
                                > I am considering mounting the pump to the one of the PTO pulleys. How
                                > effectively will the PTO operate with only one belt?
                                >
                                > any feedback would be appreciated.
                                >

                                --
                                Mike Sloane
                                Allamuchy NJ
                                <mikesloane@...>
                                Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk.
                                Joaquin Setanti
                              • Jim Kennedy
                                at this point, I was able to get a double pulley for the starter/generator from a local rebuild shop. they actually gave me the double pulley for free. I then
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 18, 2007
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                                  at this point, I was able to get a double pulley for the starter/generator from a local rebuild shop.  they actually gave me the double pulley for free.
                                   
                                  I then mounted the pump on the starter/generator side of the tractor and was able to use the same belt that was used when the unit was on the rear of the tractor. 
                                   
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sloane
                                  Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:13 AM
                                  To: ihcubloboyseries@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [IH CUB LoBoy Series] Hydraulic Pump Reconfiguration

                                  Jim - I am not entirely sure from your descriptions what you have and
                                  what you are trying to do. But most of your questions can be answered by
                                  applying a little high school physics - remember the stuff about pulleys
                                  and belts? The larger the pulley on the drive shaft, the faster the belt
                                  moves and just the opposite for the driven shaft. The calculations are
                                  pretty straight forward and probably be found fairly easily on the web.
                                  Here is one I found with a quick Google search, but there are many more:
                                  <http://www.csgnetwo rk.com/pulleybel tcalc.html>

                                  The only thing you have to know is your crankshaft/PTO shaft speed,
                                  which you should know if your engine is running at its proper maximum
                                  speed, according to the manual. (You didn't say which tractor you have.)

                                  Mike

                                  Jim Kennedy wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I am going to move my hydraulic pump (for my hydraulic loader) to the
                                  > front of my tractor as it currently is driven from the PTO. I have a PTO
                                  > reverser and plan to operate my three point finish mower with the rear
                                  > PTO and leave my loader mounted.
                                  >
                                  > My questions are as follows (I realize that some of these can be
                                  > answered from my operations manual, but I figured I would get some
                                  > feedback from the other members):
                                  >
                                  > If I were to drive my pump from the fan belt, would the approximate RPMs
                                  > of the belt movement be the same as that of the PTO?
                                  >
                                  > How much resistance is needed on the starter/generator pulley for it to
                                  > operate normally (I am considering installing the pump on the
                                  > alternator/starter side of the tractor)?
                                  >
                                  > Does the PTO pulleys turn at the same approximate RPMs as the PTO
                                  > shaft? I assume there is a difference due to the size of the respective
                                  > pulleys?
                                  >
                                  > I am considering mounting the pump to the one of the PTO pulleys. How
                                  > effectively will the PTO operate with only one belt?
                                  >
                                  > any feedback would be appreciated.
                                  >

                                  --
                                  Mike Sloane
                                  Allamuchy NJ
                                  <mikesloane@verizon. net>
                                  Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane>
                                  Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane>

                                  Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk.
                                  Joaquin Setanti

                                • Dave
                                  Jim- here s a ballpark way of figuring out wether you re turning the pump at a proper speed. Your PTO is either a 540rpm or 1000rpm PTO... I THINK the LowBoys
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 21, 2007
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                                    Jim- here's a ballpark way of figuring out wether you're turning the pump
                                    at a proper speed.

                                    Your PTO is either a 540rpm or 1000rpm PTO... I THINK the LowBoys all ran
                                    1000rpm, but someone else will have to confirm that.

                                    In any case, the PTO output speed is generally referred to as being at
                                    engine max governed speed.

                                    This means, that at full-snot, the PTO shaft sheave was either turning
                                    540rpm, or 1000rpm. You can measure the size of the original PTO pulley.

                                    What you want to do, is determine the drive ratio (drive-to-driven) of the
                                    PTO -belt arrangement, then calculate the pump's input RPM.

                                    Then do the same for your engine-driven arrangement... and if the speed is
                                    too low, change sheaves accordingly.
                                  • Mike Sloane
                                    All Farmall Cubs and International Cub LoBoys have a PTO that runs at (very non-standard) crankshaft speed, so you need to know which tractor you have and
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 21, 2007
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                                      All Farmall Cubs and International Cub LoBoys have a PTO that runs at
                                      (very non-standard) crankshaft speed, so you need to know which tractor
                                      you have and whether it is running at its maximum rated speed. This can
                                      vary from 1750 to 2250 rpm, depending on the year and model.

                                      This tends to make the calculations somewhat easier, since the PTO shaft
                                      and the crankshaft are running at the same speed. But you still have to
                                      fool with the size of the driven sheave relative to the front crank
                                      pulley size to get your speed right. Most of the crank driven hydraulic
                                      pumps I have seen (whether directly or pulley driven) seem to run at
                                      crankshaft speeds. So you will likely be in good shape if you size your
                                      pump pulley the same size as the crankshaft pulley. If you try to speed
                                      up the pump by using a smaller pulley, you may find that you have
                                      trouble keeping the belt from slipping and/or it bogs down the engine
                                      too much. And remember, as Dave suggested, these engines were designed
                                      to be run continuously at the maximum governed speed, not less.

                                      Mike

                                      Dave wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Jim- here's a ballpark way of figuring out wether you're turning the pump
                                      > at a proper speed.
                                      >
                                      > Your PTO is either a 540rpm or 1000rpm PTO... I THINK the LowBoys all ran
                                      > 1000rpm, but someone else will have to confirm that.
                                      >
                                      > In any case, the PTO output speed is generally referred to as being at
                                      > engine max governed speed.
                                      >
                                      > This means, that at full-snot, the PTO shaft sheave was either turning
                                      > 540rpm, or 1000rpm. You can measure the size of the original PTO pulley.
                                      >
                                      > What you want to do, is determine the drive ratio (drive-to-driven) of the
                                      > PTO -belt arrangement, then calculate the pump's input RPM.
                                      >
                                      > Then do the same for your engine-driven arrangement... and if the speed is
                                      > too low, change sheaves accordingly.
                                      >

                                      --
                                      Mike Sloane
                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                      <mikesloane@...>
                                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                      Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness,
                                      consideration and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn
                                      of eternal peace.
                                      -Dwight D. Eisenhower, U.S. general and 34th president (1890-1969)
                                    • Dave
                                      Thanks for filling in that void for me, Mike! Running the hydraulic pump too fast can cause some serious problems- first is cavitation, which will destroy the
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 21, 2007
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                                        Thanks for filling in that void for me, Mike!

                                        Running the hydraulic pump too fast can cause some serious problems- first
                                        is cavitation, which will destroy the pump and froth the fluid. Second, is
                                        overrunning the relief valve. Relief valves have at least two, sometimes
                                        three ratings... first one is cracking pressure (the pressure at which the
                                        valve begins to bypass), second one is bypass flow capacity... This
                                        indicates how much fluid the valve can bypass when the valve is fully
                                        open... and this is a CRITICAL SAFETY RATING- if you use a 2gpm pump on a
                                        relief valve that will bypass up to 5gpm, you'll be fine, but if you're
                                        using a 5gpm pump on a valve that will only bypass 2gpm, you'll end up with
                                        a possibile condition of uncontrolled pressure.

                                        The third rating, which is not really a critical rating, is the amount of
                                        pressure required (above cracking) that the valve reaches full flow...
                                        like... cracking at 3000, full flow at 3250. This is generally used when
                                        the driven device requires stable pressure... not too many things WE use
                                        do... aircraft and robotics usually.

                                        At 10:50 AM 03/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:
                                        >All Farmall Cubs and International Cub LoBoys have a PTO that runs at
                                        >(very non-standard) crankshaft speed, so you need to know which tractor
                                        >you have and whether it is running at its maximum rated speed. This can
                                        >vary from 1750 to 2250 rpm, depending on the year and model.
                                        >
                                        >This tends to make the calculations somewhat easier, since the PTO shaft
                                        >and the crankshaft are running at the same speed. But you still have to
                                        >fool with the size of the driven sheave relative to the front crank
                                        >pulley size to get your speed right. Most of the crank driven hydraulic
                                        >pumps I have seen (whether directly or pulley driven) seem to run at
                                        >crankshaft speeds. So you will likely be in good shape if you size your
                                        >pump pulley the same size as the crankshaft pulley. If you try to speed
                                        >up the pump by using a smaller pulley, you may find that you have
                                        >trouble keeping the belt from slipping and/or it bogs down the engine
                                        >too much. And remember, as Dave suggested, these engines were designed
                                        >to be run continuously at the maximum governed speed, not less.
                                        >
                                        >Mike
                                        >
                                        >Dave wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Jim- here's a ballpark way of figuring out wether you're turning the pump
                                        >> at a proper speed.
                                        >>
                                        >> Your PTO is either a 540rpm or 1000rpm PTO... I THINK the LowBoys all ran
                                        >> 1000rpm, but someone else will have to confirm that.
                                        >>
                                        >> In any case, the PTO output speed is generally referred to as being at
                                        >> engine max governed speed.
                                        >>
                                        >> This means, that at full-snot, the PTO shaft sheave was either turning
                                        >> 540rpm, or 1000rpm. You can measure the size of the original PTO pulley.
                                        >>
                                        >> What you want to do, is determine the drive ratio (drive-to-driven) of the
                                        >> PTO -belt arrangement, then calculate the pump's input RPM.
                                        >>
                                        >> Then do the same for your engine-driven arrangement... and if the speed is
                                        >> too low, change sheaves accordingly.
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >--
                                        >Mike Sloane
                                        >Allamuchy NJ
                                        ><mikesloane@...>
                                        >Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                        >Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>
                                        >
                                        >Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness,
                                        >consideration and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn
                                        >of eternal peace.
                                        >-Dwight D. Eisenhower, U.S. general and 34th president (1890-1969)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
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