Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [id-ruby] Selain Ruby, apa lagi?

Expand Messages
  • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
    ... Ya, betul. Se friendly friendly AJAX apalagi RJS di Rails, mis. kalau sudah kepingin kustomisasi ya tetap aja harus ngerti Javascriptnya, tentu yg saya
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 21, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Andry S Huzain wrote:
      > Hm.. meski framework itu bagus, tapi saya sudah mulai *muak* dengan
      > janji-janji "AJAX-ify your web app without JavaScript knowledge". Cepat atau
      > lambat, kita pasti berjibaku dengan JavaScript.
      > Dulu saya sempat terbuai 'janji surga' kayak itu. Dojo, Moo.fx, dan ZK. Lalu
      > pakai ATLAS + ASP.NET + ComponentArt WebUI 2.0. Saat ada 'masalah serius'
      > (security dan performance bottleneck karena saya akses webservice
      > segajah-gajah dari legacy system), kita malah ga bisa debug javascript-nya
      > karena semua code adalah hasil generate. Mampus gw dengan sukses waktu itu.
      > Solusi yang saya lakukan, bongkar semua AJAX frameworks. Lalu pakai "tangan
      > kosong" saja dengan AJAX libraries yang murni javascript. Oh ya, dibantu
      > dengan buku Manning Ajax Pattern Libraries.
      >
      > Nah, ini tolong saya dikoreksi... menurut saya Rails masih masuk akal untuk
      > dibongkar AJAX-nya. Tidak seperti framework lain yang seolah-olah
      > tightly-coupled banget dengan AJAX toolsnya (contoh: anda pernah debug Java
      > DWR? that's really such pain-in-the-ass framework :D).
      >
      >
      Ya, betul. Se friendly friendly AJAX apalagi RJS di Rails, mis. kalau
      sudah kepingin kustomisasi ya tetap aja harus ngerti Javascriptnya,
      tentu yg saya maksud javascript yang bersangkutan saja, jadi tidak
      membikin javascript dari awal (sedikit point plus saja utk kebiasaan di
      framework begini [mis scriptacoluous, prototype, VisualEffect, dll]
      ketimbang bikin sendiri). Contohnya text_field_with_auto_complete yang
      dikustomisasi misalkan.

      Yang bagus adalah memanfaatkan kemampuan fleksibilitas Rails yang
      didisain utk tidak mengulangi apa yang dialami pengalaman DHH di J2EE
      (sori kalo yg ini saya cuma bisa ngomong, karna saya sendiri bukan orang
      Java, cuman ngutip dari situs Pak DHH di Loudthinking / sori juga ga
      kasi direct linknya.), jadi disini saya hanya bisa berbicara dalam
      bahasa Ruby nya saja. Seperti bilamana sudah sering pakai dengan
      kustomisasi CSS, AJAX, JS dan dukungan2 seperti RMagick, Atom/Feed, dan
      servis2 sendiri tinggal dibikin saja plugin nya, sehingga bisa di
      generate, atau kalau nggak mau menyamakan pendapat dengan filosofi yang
      diusung DHH, alias maunya ngotot ya boleh juga lah bikin Engine sendiri,
      IMHO daripada bikin segede Engine, mending bikin Plugin atau RubyGems
      saja, output nya kecil dan reusable. Yang dibikin yg belum ada saja,
      kalau saya pribadi sih kebanyakan sudah tinggal pakai, alias sudah ada
      yg nyediakan dari komunitas Rails (untuk kasus plugin) dan dari
      komunitas Ruby (untuk kasus RubyGems).

      Diatas saya berbicara dengan penekanan *Ruby* nya, dan kenapa bukan
      *Rails* nya. Karena saya hanya ingin mengingatkan, terutama untuk
      introspeksi diri saya sendiri (dan dengan segala kerendahan hati/sembari
      sedikit menundukkan kepala tanda menghormat) utk tidak mengandalkan
      kehebatan Ruby pada fleksibilitas Rails. Kalau sekadar meningkatkan
      Taraf NgeLmu Ruby dengan aplikasi nyata seperti Rails sih bagus bagus
      saja. Tentu ujung2nya yang diharap adalah kuat di Ruby nya. Dengan
      harapan, tidak akan ada istilah uneducated untuk rubyist seperti
      biasanya oleh komunitas rubyist sering disebut2 php uneducated, quick
      and dirty. (sedikit referensi bisa dilihat di
      http://rubyhacker.com/ruby37.html #37 reasons why I Love Ruby )... FYI
      kalau di dunia Luar (maksud saya di luar negri), contoh2 seperti Amy
      Hoy dan Tobias Luetjke, beliaubeliau ini mengawali Ruby dari Rails,
      tetapi sekarangsekarang gini (hari gini) kualitas beliau beliau ini juga
      kuat Ruby nya. Kita bisa liat Typo, trus self-generate ruby yang dibuat
      Tobi ini. Demikian juga seperti Technoweenie (Rick Olson), coba lihat
      coding plugin nya beliau (bwih, ini orang biar umurnya masih muda / 25
      tahun, tapi sudah jadi Rails Core Developer) dan memang kualitas codes
      nya beliau ya memang bagus / Ruby, bisa dilihat project beast, kemudian
      patch2 yang dipasang Pak Rick ini di Rails edge (lihat di svn nya
      developer rails). Mungkin ini juga alasan kenapa untuk urusan session
      menjadi hal yg remeh temeh buat mereka (para rails core developer) ya :)

      Well just as a reminder, buat pakai Ruby ini makin diasah makin tajam,
      bisa juga sambil lihat2 selain (source code) rails, seperti ruby for
      symbian, nitro (barusan di update *banget* ), dRb dan yg ada di
      raa.ruby-lang.org, oh yg di rubyquiz juga

      > Buat yang no. 2 bukan Ruby, saya tambah pertanyaan 4:
      >
      >
      >> 4. Kenapa gak pakai Ruby/Rails untuk bahasa utama?
      >>
      >> Jawaban sendiri :
      >> - hosting yang bayar sulit ditemukan, apalagi yang gratis
      >> - sulit meyakinkan bos/manajemen/klien/customer/istri/pacar/you-name-it
      >>
      >>
      >
      > Karena gw belum di posisi 'menentukan bahasa yang akan dipakai'. It's
      > company policies thingy.
      > Kalau ngeyakinin istri/pacar mah gampang :D
      >
      >
      Tentang nomer 4, terutama *Rails* saja dulu penekanannya . supaya tidak
      rancu sehingga newbie2 menyamakan ruby == rails.
      (bahaya nanti, kalau ruby dianggep rails, analogi orang konglomerat dan
      serba wah wah dianggap miskin)
      ini senada dengan struggle uh perjuangannya teman2 Rails diluar sana di
      tahun 2005-an dulu ya.. pernah baca situs orang jepang (tapi pake bahasa
      inggris loh! bukan jepang) judulnya answer to those who are still
      sceptical about rails.. trus sama satunya lagi yang ada gambar
      kartun2nya itu dimana ya... sudah lama banget soalnya. ummmm.. ada juga
      arsip milis rails yang baagus banget untuk menjawab nomer 4 ini, kalo
      nggak salah bahkan sampai ditaroh di wikinya rails karna banyak
      dijadikan rujukan buat mereka mereka yang banyak pada sukses bermigrasi
      ke rails di luar negri sana.
      Kalau untuk hosting saya no-comment / bukan bos hosting

      --
      Arie Kusuma Atmaja A.K.A Arie / YM! = riyari3
      http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com
      http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby
      http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-jp # nihongo o benkyoshimashou
      http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-fr # parlons francais
      ck ck ck ... Bruce Tate juga ketagihan Ruby!
    • diki@diki.or.id
      ... Belum ... PHP ... - Kesambet MVC - Mulai butuh framework web soalnya kerjaan makin numpuk dan deadline sempit, awalnya bergulat di framework MVC php ala
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 21, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 13:52, Andry S Huzain wrote:
        > > Ini pertanyaan iseng saja. Meski juga ada seriusnya.
        > > 1. Disini ada yang memakai Ruby sebagai 'bahasa pemrograman utama'?

        Belum

        > > 2. Kalau tidak, bahasa pemrograman utama anda apa? Perl? C++? Java? PHP?

        PHP

        > > 3. Kenapa belajar Ruby (ya ya ya, Rails juga boleh deh)?

        - Kesambet MVC
        - Mulai butuh framework web soalnya kerjaan makin numpuk dan deadline
        sempit, awalnya bergulat di framework MVC php ala CakePHP, symphony
        dll. tapi ternyata setelah nyoba Rails kok lebih enak dan rapi,
        learning curvenya lebih cepet (imho)
        - Living on the edge / trend / ngoprek barang baru
        - Jadi startnya sih dari Rails, dan belakangan pelan-pelan mulai ke Ruby nya

        Karena di beberapa project ujicoba ternyata speed produksi bisa
        dipercepat pake rails akhirnya sebagai manajemen mulai ambil
        kebijakan: programmer2 junior mulai "dirubykan" & server hostingan
        juga dibikin support rails.

        Regards,
        Niwatori
        www.diki.or.id
      • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
        ... bisa di-share/diceritakan suka dan duka pergulatannya di MVC PHP ala CAKEPHP, Pak ? saya koq ya sering juga dengar-dengar dari anak-anak yang dengan bangga
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 21, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          diki@... wrote:
          >
          > sempit, awalnya bergulat di framework MVC php ala CakePHP, symphony
          > dll. tapi ternyata setelah nyoba Rails kok lebih enak dan rapi,
          > learning curvenya lebih cepet (imho)
          >
          bisa di-share/diceritakan suka dan duka pergulatannya di MVC PHP ala
          CAKEPHP, Pak ?
          saya koq ya sering juga dengar-dengar dari anak-anak yang dengan bangga
          berkiblat php menyebut2 cakephp ini...

          ini saya ada link, tapi django vs rails.
          http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcn8282p_1hg4sr9
          svn co http://3columns.net/habitual/

          --
          Arie Kusuma Atmaja A.K.A Arie / YM! = riyari3
          http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com
          http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby

          http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-jp # nihongo o benkyoshimashou
          http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-fr # parlons francais
          ck ck ck ... Bruce Tate juga ketagihan Ruby!
        • diki@diki.or.id
          ... Sebenernya pernyataan saya di atas ( lebih enak dan rapi.. ) salah juga sih (maaf maaf..., jadi keingetan isu sensitif gini setelah baca kata kiblat dan
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 22, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            On 11/22/06, Arie Kusuma Atmaja <ariekusumaatmaja@...> wrote:
            > diki@... wrote:
            > > sempit, awalnya bergulat di framework MVC php ala CakePHP, symphony
            > > dll. tapi ternyata setelah nyoba Rails kok lebih enak dan rapi,
            > > learning curvenya lebih cepet (imho)
            > >
            > bisa di-share/diceritakan suka dan duka pergulatannya di MVC PHP ala
            > CAKEPHP, Pak ?
            > saya koq ya sering juga dengar-dengar dari anak-anak yang dengan bangga
            > berkiblat php menyebut2 cakephp ini...

            Sebenernya pernyataan saya di atas ("lebih enak dan rapi..") salah
            juga sih (maaf maaf..., jadi keingetan isu sensitif gini setelah baca
            kata kiblat dan bangga di reply mas arie), conditional dan subyektif
            soalnya. Dan ngebanding2in 2 platform yg berbeda bisa berbuntut debat
            panjang ala java-ruby-python, linux-m$ dll. di web. Jadi betul kata
            mas arie, mungkin sharing pengalaman pas menggunakan mvc frameworknya
            saja:

            - karena lama pakai php, kadang aturan kode/tag/rules frameworknya
            sendiri malah sering dilewat, kalau lagi kebelet atau ngga sadar yang
            ada malah diakalin atau hardcore coding lagi, dan kadang
            kecampur-campur "eh ini teh class.. eh controller.. eh.. arraynya
            model? dst... "

            - tapi poin di atas kadang jadi advantage juga, kalau si frameworknya
            udah ngga mengakomodir fungsi tertentu ya di kepala langsung siap plan
            A, plan B dengan fungsi2 php lain, di rails masih terkadang mentok
            cari strategi dan padanannya (ruby nya masih newbie soalnya ^_^)

            - sistemnya masih copy2 directory (kecuali framework php mvc yg sudah
            nyiapin juga skrip konsolnya sperti codeigniter atau symfony non
            sandbox), di rails skrip2 generator di konsolnya sangat membantu dalam
            membuat mvc lebih cepat dan efisien

            - bingung saat memilih php mvc framework yang akan dipakai:
            http://www.phpwact.org/php/mvc_frameworks , ngga ada waktu buat
            mencoba satu2, lebih mengandalkan referensi orang lain "cakephp aja,
            paling mirip rails..." , dan setelah dipikir2 di link tersebut rata2
            "modeled after rails", jadi akhirnya kepikiran ya udah knp ngga rails
            aja sekalian

            Gitu aja mungkin sharing dari mvc newbienya ^_^

            Regards,
            Niwatori
            www.diki.or.id
          • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
            ... ngomong2 AJAX, Buat pengidola/fans-nya (Yang Saya Hormati) Dan Webb (RJS minus R) : http://www.danwebb.net/2006/11/17/rjs-minus-r/ buat pengidola/fans-nya
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 22, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Arie Kusuma Atmaja wrote:
              > Andry S Huzain wrote:
              >> Nah, ini tolong saya dikoreksi... menurut saya Rails masih masuk akal
              >> untuk
              >> dibongkar AJAX-nya. Tidak seperti framework lain yang seolah-olah
              >> tightly-coupled banget dengan AJAX toolsnya (contoh: anda pernah debug
              >> Java
              >> DWR? that's really such pain-in-the-ass framework :D).
              >>
              >>

              ngomong2 AJAX,

              Buat pengidola/fans-nya (Yang Saya Hormati) Dan Webb (RJS minus R) :
              http://www.danwebb.net/2006/11/17/rjs-minus-r/

              buat pengidola/fans-nya (Yang Saya Hormati) Audrey Tang (idenya dari
              Ruby Quiz):
              http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Quiz

              > Ya, betul. Se friendly friendly AJAX apalagi RJS di Rails, mis. kalau

              --
              Arie Kusuma Atmaja A.K.A Arie / YM! = riyari3
              http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby
              http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-jp # nihongo o benkyoshimashou
              http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-fr # parlons francais
            • Edwin Pratomo
              ... jika ada, maka itu bukanlah saya ... Yg utama Perl, kira2 8 tahun aktif dipakai, buat bikin aplikasi, almost-daily scripting, one-liner :-) C dan C++ masih
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 22, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- Andry S Huzain <andryshuzain@...> menulis:
                > Ini pertanyaan iseng saja. Meski juga ada seriusnya.
                >
                > 1. Disini ada yang memakai Ruby sebagai 'bahasa pemrograman utama'?

                jika ada, maka itu bukanlah saya

                > 2. Kalau tidak, bahasa pemrograman utama anda apa? Perl? C++? Java? PHP?

                Yg utama Perl, kira2 8 tahun aktif dipakai, buat bikin aplikasi, almost-daily
                scripting, one-liner :-)
                C dan C++ masih aktif dipake juga tapi tidak begitu intensif, kira2 11 tahun.
                Java jarang, jika pake pun dicampur Perl pake Inline::Java :-)
                PHP masih dipakai dalam rangka maintenance legacy code bakmi campur nasi
                (bahasa londonya: magelangan).

                > 3. Kenapa belajar Ruby (ya ya ya, Rails juga boleh deh)?

                pertamanya cuma karena curiosity dan style-nya yang relatif bebas mirip2 di
                perl. Kalo sampeyan suka lihat2 diskusi di komunitas Perl pasti tahu banyak yg
                suntuk nungguin perl6 lalu pelampiasannya nyoba2 ruby.

                tapi lalu saya perlu mencari bahasa pemrograman untuk menggantikan pemakaian
                PHP di tempat saya. kelihtannya ruby dng Rails ini cukup sexy utk itu, dan
                syntax-nya bersih tidak memberi kesan sulit seperti Perl.
                dan yg cukup penting juga: ada banyak orang pintar di komunitas ruby.
                mudah2an pilihan saya ini tepat. kendalanya adalah masih terbatasnya programmer
                dng skill ruby di indonesia, khususnya di jakarta dan sekitarnya.

                rgds,
                Edwin.





                ________________________________________________________
                Kunjungi halaman depan Yahoo! Indonesia yang baru!
                http://id.yahoo.com/
              • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
                ... pas terlihat direktori simpenan saya liat harta karun ini saya copy paste kesini saja soalnya lupa dulu thread ini yg di direct link yg mana dan ini bukan
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 30, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Arie Kusuma Atmaja wrote:
                  > Tentang nomer 4, terutama *Rails* saja dulu penekanannya . supaya tidak
                  > rancu sehingga newbie2 menyamakan ruby == rails.
                  > (bahaya nanti, kalau ruby dianggep rails, analogi orang konglomerat dan
                  > serba wah wah dianggap miskin)
                  > ini senada dengan struggle uh perjuangannya teman2 Rails diluar sana di
                  > tahun 2005-an dulu ya.. pernah baca situs orang jepang (tapi pake bahasa
                  > inggris loh! bukan jepang) judulnya answer to those who are still
                  > sceptical about rails.. trus sama satunya lagi yang ada gambar
                  > kartun2nya itu dimana ya... sudah lama banget soalnya. ummmm.. ada juga
                  > arsip milis rails yang baagus banget untuk menjawab nomer 4 ini, kalo
                  > nggak salah bahkan sampai ditaroh di wikinya rails karna banyak
                  > dijadikan rujukan buat mereka mereka yang banyak pada sukses bermigrasi
                  > ke rails di luar negri sana.

                  pas terlihat direktori simpenan saya liat harta karun ini saya copy
                  paste kesini saja soalnya lupa dulu thread ini yg di direct link yg mana
                  dan ini bukan yang ada gambar kartunnya itu. maap, cuman satu pak dan
                  cuma rails. / tapi mnurut saya kalo utk ruby sih kalo geek sudah gak
                  akan ragu-ragu lagi.

                  Nicolas,

                  Sounds like you were in exactly the same position as I was with our
                  first Rails app. In my situation our boss asked what we could use to
                  replace VB and MS Access applications that were going the way of the
                  Dodo Bird soon. In my case it wasn't that hard of a sell since I
                  proposed we spend one month doing a pilot project to see how much we
                  could get done. Turned out we did the entire project's functionality in
                  about 2.5 weeks so it turned into a big win for us.

                  The general strategy I proposed to the head honchos is that we use Rails
                  for small quick agile applications with a small number of users and then
                  leave the established Java stuff to the big applications. This is a
                  total farce though as Rails can handle all the same stuff if not more
                  than Java (and I've proven this time and again with consistent
                  statistically based performance metrics).

                  The big things I can recommend you hit in your presentation are the
                  following:

                  1. Seriously propose a range of alternatives--including continuing with
                  the current platform--and present the pros/cons of each. They can smell
                  when you're "stuffing the ballot" so be honest. For example, have you
                  considered just pointing Brio, Cognos, or similar tool at your data?
                  2. Plan to handle the following questions:
                  * "What about security?"
                  * "How well does it scale?"
                  * "What's the performance (see below) like?"
                  * "How many users can it handle?"
                  * "How would we deploy it?"
                  * "Do we have the hardware to support it?"
                  * "How does it fit into our current deployment setup?"
                  * "What happens if we have to reboot the server?"
                  * "Is it robust enough to handle our complex business needs?"
                  3. Give some anecdotes from other sources about the efficiency of Ruby
                  on Rails, and also present the alternative rebutals from similar sources.
                  4. Demonstrate the #1 thing that Rails has over nearly every other
                  framework: Native Ajax support. I'd take the time to whip up a simple
                  "Ajax Demo" that showed off the cool stuff you can do with Ajax. Other
                  platform advocates will have a hard time competing with that, especially
                  if you show how most Ajax in Rails involves about 10 lines of code (if
                  that).
                  5. If you're not good at making cheeze charts (powerpoint to biz people)
                  then get ahold of a friend from marketing to help you out. Buy him/her
                  lunch and they'll probably kick in some assistance. Especially if they
                  can put their name on the proposal and win some cool points. Just be
                  careful they don't stab you in the back and try to take credit for the
                  idea (depends on where you work).

                  Finally, here's some common answers to the questions I gave above:

                  * "What about security?" -- Rails, being a web application framework is
                  just as secure as every other framework. It provides all the normal
                  features for AAA (Authentication, Authorization, Auditing) such as LDAP,
                  logging, etc. and has the same weaknesses if used by uneducated
                  developers. (It helps if you can find a piece of previously written
                  vulnerable or bad code from the other frameworks).

                  * "How well does it scale?" -- First, get them to define scalability.
                  If they say, "You know, how many users can it handle?" Then be prepared
                  to educate them that scalability is about being able to start small, and
                  expand later, not about how many users a given system can handle.
                  *That* is performance. Once you've nailed that down, tell them Rails
                  adopts the "share nothing" idea so you can easily scale it out by adding
                  more hardware and running more Rails. This is in contrast to complex
                  Java App server deployments which require MQ systems, NFS, complex
                  session shuffling, and lots of software just to scale.

                  * "What's the performance like?" -- Tell them it performs just about
                  the same as other platforms, sometimes better, sometimes worse. The
                  advantage that Rails has over many other architectures is that it's
                  simplicity makes it easier to tune and (drumroll) scale to meet
                  performance needs. In addition, say that if they can come up with solid
                  performance requirements, then it'll be possible to kill the project
                  early if Rails can't meet the needs. The nice thing about this last
                  strategy is that they are now on the hook to develop a set of metrics
                  which you can then verify against existing systems.
                  For example, they say, "It needs to handle 500 connections/second."
                  Don't let them say "users", "users" means nothing. Then you go test
                  their current WizBangOMatic and find it only handles 10 conn/second.
                  You can then come to them and say that Rails can't do 500 conn/second,
                  but it can do better than the WizBangOMatic which only has 10
                  conn/second performance. It's evil, but it puts the performance harpies
                  at rest.

                  * "How many users can it handle?" -- See performance. In addition,
                  "users" is a very vague term you can't measure. You can measure
                  requests, connections, bytes transfered, simultaneous connected clients,
                  but not users.

                  * "How would we deploy it?" -- Explain the software needed, platforms it
                  runs on, how well it runs on them, etc.

                  * "Do we have the hardware to support it?" -- Yes, it runs on nearly
                  everything, and more than Java.

                  * "How does it fit into our current deployment setup?" -- This one is up
                  to you. Figure it out because they'll ask.

                  * "What happens if we have to reboot the server?" -- Reboot it. You can
                  configure Rails to start up on reboot just like any other piece of
                  software on the planet.

                  * "Is it robust enough to handle our complex business needs?" -- Explain
                  that several businesses are basing their lives on Rails, and that it
                  seems to be as robust as every other software system.

                  Good luck.

                  On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:53:17 +0200
                  Nicolas Buet <nicolas.buet@...> wrote:


                  >> Hi,
                  >> I understand that this might be off topic, but it's still rails
                  related. I
                  >> have a meeting tomorrow with a manager about a database front end
                  project.
                  >> He want to use jdbc, but for a change I would like to use rails.
                  What do you
                  >> think could convince him that Rails is a viable choice?
                  >> (I don't know much about the project, but it is small: 5 weeks from
                  design
                  >> to delivery, 3 users or less, no authentification... this will
                  replace a "ms
                  >> access" tool)
                  >> Regards,
                  >> Nicolas
                  >>

                  _______________________________________________
                  Rails mailing list
                  Rails@...
                  http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails




                  --
                  Arie Kusuma Atmaja A.K.A Arie A.K.A ariekeren / YM! = riyari3
                  http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby
                  http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-jp # ayo praktek ngomong jepang!
                  http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-fr # ayo praktek ngomong prancis!
                • Andry S Huzain
                  Jrit. Panjang banget Rie. Lu kayak programmer __selain ruby__ aja posting imel forward panjang-panjang dan susah dimengerti :D jk. Gw lagi baca buku From
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 30, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    'Jrit.
                    Panjang banget 'Rie. Lu kayak programmer __selain ruby__ aja posting imel
                    forward panjang-panjang dan susah dimengerti :D

                    jk.

                    Gw lagi baca buku From Java to Ruby (Pragmatic Programmer). Asyik nih buku..


                    Bab 4: Cara propaganda Ruby:
                    4.a Pake pilot project.
                    4.b Pake trojan horse, bikin project kecil2an secara diam2 dulu.
                    4.c Race. Untuk satu problem, bikin solusi pake Ruby (saya sudah 2 kali pake
                    pola ini)
                    4.d Taruhan. "Gertak sambal" kalo pake Ruby bisa improve business value.
                    Buktikan saja kalo sambalnya bener2 pedes.
                    4.e Aksi penyelamatan. Gunakan Ruby saat project sudah kepepet waktu.

                    Bab 5. Menempis pandangan miring dan meremehkan Ruby secara dia scripting.
                    Bikin project yang ga "semestinya" bisa dilakukan scripting:
                    * Enterprise integration --> messaging, webservice
                    * LDAP (yang ini udah pernah gw lakuin. Gw bikin interface LDAP untuk manage
                    user, tapi aplikasi utamanya sendiri pake Struts. Yah gimana lagi, JNDI
                    terlalu ribet mbulet suket)

                    Banyak lagi sih samplenya, seperti persistence (ActiveRecord vs
                    Hibernate/iBatis) dll. Tapi menurut gw yg paling sexy ya middleware LDAP
                    itu.

                    Bab 6. Infiltrasi pelan2
                    6.a Migrasi (Java ke Ruby)
                    6.b Integrasi (Java dan Ruby)
                    6.c Adaptasi (JRuby, RJB, YAJB, RJNI, RJAVA)
                    6.d SOA. Selalu pake paradigma SOA (SOAP dan REST) dalam aplikasi Java
                    ataupun Ruby. Biar kedua spesies ini jadi gampang "ngobrol"nya.


                    Hehehehe....


                    On 11/30/06, Arie Kusuma Atmaja <ariekusumaatmaja@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Arie Kusuma Atmaja wrote:
                    > > Tentang nomer 4, terutama *Rails* saja dulu penekanannya . supaya tidak
                    > > rancu sehingga newbie2 menyamakan ruby == rails.
                    > > (bahaya nanti, kalau ruby dianggep rails, analogi orang konglomerat dan
                    > > serba wah wah dianggap miskin)
                    > > ini senada dengan struggle uh perjuangannya teman2 Rails diluar sana di
                    > > tahun 2005-an dulu ya.. pernah baca situs orang jepang (tapi pake bahasa
                    >
                    > > inggris loh! bukan jepang) judulnya answer to those who are still
                    > > sceptical about rails.. trus sama satunya lagi yang ada gambar
                    > > kartun2nya itu dimana ya... sudah lama banget soalnya. ummmm.. ada juga
                    > > arsip milis rails yang baagus banget untuk menjawab nomer 4 ini, kalo
                    > > nggak salah bahkan sampai ditaroh di wikinya rails karna banyak
                    > > dijadikan rujukan buat mereka mereka yang banyak pada sukses bermigrasi
                    > > ke rails di luar negri sana.
                    >
                    > pas terlihat direktori simpenan saya liat harta karun ini saya copy
                    > paste kesini saja soalnya lupa dulu thread ini yg di direct link yg mana
                    > dan ini bukan yang ada gambar kartunnya itu. maap, cuman satu pak dan
                    > cuma rails. / tapi mnurut saya kalo utk ruby sih kalo geek sudah gak
                    > akan ragu-ragu lagi.
                    >
                    > Nicolas,
                    >
                    > Sounds like you were in exactly the same position as I was with our
                    > first Rails app. In my situation our boss asked what we could use to
                    > replace VB and MS Access applications that were going the way of the
                    > Dodo Bird soon. In my case it wasn't that hard of a sell since I
                    > proposed we spend one month doing a pilot project to see how much we
                    > could get done. Turned out we did the entire project's functionality in
                    > about 2.5 weeks so it turned into a big win for us.
                    >
                    > The general strategy I proposed to the head honchos is that we use Rails
                    > for small quick agile applications with a small number of users and then
                    > leave the established Java stuff to the big applications. This is a
                    > total farce though as Rails can handle all the same stuff if not more
                    > than Java (and I've proven this time and again with consistent
                    > statistically based performance metrics).
                    >
                    > The big things I can recommend you hit in your presentation are the
                    > following:
                    >
                    > 1. Seriously propose a range of alternatives--including continuing with
                    > the current platform--and present the pros/cons of each. They can smell
                    > when you're "stuffing the ballot" so be honest. For example, have you
                    > considered just pointing Brio, Cognos, or similar tool at your data?
                    > 2. Plan to handle the following questions:
                    > * "What about security?"
                    > * "How well does it scale?"
                    > * "What's the performance (see below) like?"
                    > * "How many users can it handle?"
                    > * "How would we deploy it?"
                    > * "Do we have the hardware to support it?"
                    > * "How does it fit into our current deployment setup?"
                    > * "What happens if we have to reboot the server?"
                    > * "Is it robust enough to handle our complex business needs?"
                    > 3. Give some anecdotes from other sources about the efficiency of Ruby
                    > on Rails, and also present the alternative rebutals from similar sources.
                    > 4. Demonstrate the #1 thing that Rails has over nearly every other
                    > framework: Native Ajax support. I'd take the time to whip up a simple
                    > "Ajax Demo" that showed off the cool stuff you can do with Ajax. Other
                    > platform advocates will have a hard time competing with that, especially
                    > if you show how most Ajax in Rails involves about 10 lines of code (if
                    > that).
                    > 5. If you're not good at making cheeze charts (powerpoint to biz people)
                    > then get ahold of a friend from marketing to help you out. Buy him/her
                    > lunch and they'll probably kick in some assistance. Especially if they
                    > can put their name on the proposal and win some cool points. Just be
                    > careful they don't stab you in the back and try to take credit for the
                    > idea (depends on where you work).
                    >
                    > Finally, here's some common answers to the questions I gave above:
                    >
                    > * "What about security?" -- Rails, being a web application framework is
                    > just as secure as every other framework. It provides all the normal
                    > features for AAA (Authentication, Authorization, Auditing) such as LDAP,
                    > logging, etc. and has the same weaknesses if used by uneducated
                    > developers. (It helps if you can find a piece of previously written
                    > vulnerable or bad code from the other frameworks).
                    >
                    > * "How well does it scale?" -- First, get them to define scalability.
                    > If they say, "You know, how many users can it handle?" Then be prepared
                    > to educate them that scalability is about being able to start small, and
                    > expand later, not about how many users a given system can handle.
                    > *That* is performance. Once you've nailed that down, tell them Rails
                    > adopts the "share nothing" idea so you can easily scale it out by adding
                    > more hardware and running more Rails. This is in contrast to complex
                    > Java App server deployments which require MQ systems, NFS, complex
                    > session shuffling, and lots of software just to scale.
                    >
                    > * "What's the performance like?" -- Tell them it performs just about
                    > the same as other platforms, sometimes better, sometimes worse. The
                    > advantage that Rails has over many other architectures is that it's
                    > simplicity makes it easier to tune and (drumroll) scale to meet
                    > performance needs. In addition, say that if they can come up with solid
                    > performance requirements, then it'll be possible to kill the project
                    > early if Rails can't meet the needs. The nice thing about this last
                    > strategy is that they are now on the hook to develop a set of metrics
                    > which you can then verify against existing systems.
                    > For example, they say, "It needs to handle 500 connections/second."
                    > Don't let them say "users", "users" means nothing. Then you go test
                    > their current WizBangOMatic and find it only handles 10 conn/second.
                    > You can then come to them and say that Rails can't do 500 conn/second,
                    > but it can do better than the WizBangOMatic which only has 10
                    > conn/second performance. It's evil, but it puts the performance harpies
                    > at rest.
                    >
                    > * "How many users can it handle?" -- See performance. In addition,
                    > "users" is a very vague term you can't measure. You can measure
                    > requests, connections, bytes transfered, simultaneous connected clients,
                    > but not users.
                    >
                    > * "How would we deploy it?" -- Explain the software needed, platforms it
                    > runs on, how well it runs on them, etc.
                    >
                    > * "Do we have the hardware to support it?" -- Yes, it runs on nearly
                    > everything, and more than Java.
                    >
                    > * "How does it fit into our current deployment setup?" -- This one is up
                    > to you. Figure it out because they'll ask.
                    >
                    > * "What happens if we have to reboot the server?" -- Reboot it. You can
                    > configure Rails to start up on reboot just like any other piece of
                    > software on the planet.
                    >
                    > * "Is it robust enough to handle our complex business needs?" -- Explain
                    > that several businesses are basing their lives on Rails, and that it
                    > seems to be as robust as every other software system.
                    >
                    > Good luck.
                    >
                    > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:53:17 +0200
                    > Nicolas Buet <nicolas.buet@... <nicolas.buet%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                    >
                    > >> Hi,
                    > >> I understand that this might be off topic, but it's still rails
                    > related. I
                    > >> have a meeting tomorrow with a manager about a database front end
                    > project.
                    > >> He want to use jdbc, but for a change I would like to use rails.
                    > What do you
                    > >> think could convince him that Rails is a viable choice?
                    > >> (I don't know much about the project, but it is small: 5 weeks from
                    > design
                    > >> to delivery, 3 users or less, no authentification... this will
                    > replace a "ms
                    > >> access" tool)
                    > >> Regards,
                    > >> Nicolas
                    > >>
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Rails mailing list
                    > Rails@... <Rails%40lists.rubyonrails.org>
                    > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
                    >
                    > --
                    > Arie Kusuma Atmaja A.K.A Arie A.K.A ariekeren / YM! = riyari3
                    > http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby
                    > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-jp # ayo praktek ngomong jepang!
                    > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-fr # ayo praktek ngomong prancis!
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    http://andryshuzain.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • aditya_jamop
                    ... 1. entahlah, aku kesulitan mendefinisikan apa itu bhs pemrograman utama , yg jelas 3 bulan terakhir ini, daku dipaksa perusahaan tuk ngubek2 Ruby 2.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 1, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In id-ruby@yahoogroups.com, "Andry S Huzain" <andryshuzain@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ini pertanyaan iseng saja. Meski juga ada seriusnya.
                      >
                      > 1. Disini ada yang memakai Ruby sebagai 'bahasa pemrograman utama'?
                      > 2. Kalau tidak, bahasa pemrograman utama anda apa? Perl? C++? Java? PHP?
                      > 3. Kenapa belajar Ruby (ya ya ya, Rails juga boleh deh)?
                      >

                      1. entahlah, aku kesulitan mendefinisikan apa itu 'bhs pemrograman
                      utama', yg jelas 3 bulan terakhir ini, daku 'dipaksa' perusahaan tuk
                      ngubek2 Ruby

                      2. sebelum tenggelam dalam dunia Ruby, dah 2 tahun daku kalo
                      ngedevelop web pakek PHP

                      3.
                      1.karena perush membutuhkan programmer ruby, sementara kalo nyari SDM
                      ruby di luaran sana konon kabarnya msh jarang, jadilah daku disuruh
                      tenggelam dalam dunia ruby ini

                      2.setelah sedikit tenggelam, ternyata ruby menarik, terutama Railsnya
                      yg membuat pengalaman ngedevelop jadi asyik, apalagi menurutku rails
                      lebih efisien ketimbang PHP

                      3.suatu saat nanti pengen banget kerja di jepang, konon kabarnya ruby
                      sangat populer di sana, so mudah2an dgn belajar ruby bisa membawaku ke
                      sana aamiin
                    • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
                      ... diasumsikan bahasa pemrograman utama = bahasa yang paaaling familiar dipakai aja. ... sementara kebanyakan perusahaan ketakutan pakai ruby karena khawatir
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 1, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        aditya_jamop wrote:
                        > --- In id-ruby@yahoogroups.com, "Andry S Huzain" <andryshuzain@...> wrote:
                        >> Ini pertanyaan iseng saja. Meski juga ada seriusnya.
                        >>
                        >> 1. Disini ada yang memakai Ruby sebagai 'bahasa pemrograman utama'?
                        >> 2. Kalau tidak, bahasa pemrograman utama anda apa? Perl? C++? Java? PHP?
                        >> 3. Kenapa belajar Ruby (ya ya ya, Rails juga boleh deh)?
                        >>
                        >
                        > 1. entahlah, aku kesulitan mendefinisikan apa itu 'bhs pemrograman
                        > utama', yg jelas 3 bulan terakhir ini, daku 'dipaksa' perusahaan tuk
                        > ngubek2 Ruby

                        diasumsikan bahasa pemrograman utama = bahasa yang paaaling familiar
                        dipakai aja.

                        >
                        > 2. sebelum tenggelam dalam dunia Ruby, dah 2 tahun daku kalo
                        > ngedevelop web pakek PHP
                        >
                        > 3.
                        > 1.karena perush membutuhkan programmer ruby, sementara kalo nyari SDM
                        > ruby di luaran sana konon kabarnya msh jarang, jadilah daku disuruh
                        > tenggelam dalam dunia ruby ini
                        >
                        > 2.setelah sedikit tenggelam, ternyata ruby menarik, terutama Railsnya
                        > yg membuat pengalaman ngedevelop jadi asyik, apalagi menurutku rails
                        > lebih efisien ketimbang PHP


                        sementara kebanyakan perusahaan ketakutan pakai ruby karena khawatir
                        programmer ruby yg masih disebut makhluk langka itu nanti akan cabut, di
                        tempat adit terbalik, malah sampai dipaksa paksa pakai Ruby, ni berarti
                        memang perusahaan punya kesadaran sendiri ya :)

                        >
                        > 3.suatu saat nanti pengen banget kerja di jepang, konon kabarnya ruby
                        > sangat populer di sana, so mudah2an dgn belajar ruby bisa membawaku ke
                        > sana aamiin
                        >

                        yup. amiin. nanti biar gw kalau ada langkah, jalan-jalan ke Kyoto bisa
                        ada tempat singgah ke tempat teman sendiri ya :)
                        # ini kalau sama sama senangnya sama Tokyo sih, kalau maunya di Tokyo
                        # shikata ga nai ne.

                        --
                        Arie Kusuma Atmaja A.K.A Arie A.K.A ariekeren / YM! = riyari3
                        http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby
                        http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-jp # nihongo o benkyoshimashou
                        http://groups-beta.google.com/group/id-fr # parlons francais
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.