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Balasan: Re: [id-ruby] iAsk: showing UTC as PST with to_pst ?

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  • Edwin Pratomo
    ... good to know someone has done this the right way. ... the javanese people? yeah sometimes they made mistakes. this reminds me of the famous DOS hash
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 1, 2008
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      --- Yohanes Santoso <yahoo-id-ruby@...> wrote:

      > > just found this: http://tzinfo.rubyforge.org/
      >
      > Unfortunately, timezone definition is influenced more by political
      > than natural reasons. So, using tzinfo, which has its own timezone
      > database, separate from the system's database, will introduce yet
      > another thing to maintain.

      good to know someone has done this the right way.

      > When the US timezone definitions were changed two years ago, we had to
      > patch hundreds of Windows machine and also JRE instances because Sun's
      > JRE used a separate timezone database. This unnecessarily doubled up
      > the maintenance effort.

      the "javanese" people? yeah sometimes they made mistakes.
      this reminds me of the famous DOS hash attack back in 2003. java users were the
      most unlucky at that time, because java hash value generator is part of the
      specification :-)

      rgds,
      Edwin.




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    • polutan
      kok pake bhs inggris sih? pake bhs Indonesia aja napa? yg laen kan ndak ngerti... ... From: Edwin Pratomo To: id-ruby@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 10, 2008
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        kok pake bhs inggris sih?
        pake bhs Indonesia aja napa? yg laen kan ndak ngerti...
        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Edwin Pratomo <edpratomo@...>
        To: id-ruby@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:51:56 PM
        Subject: Balasan: Re: Balasan: Re: Balasan: Re: Balasan: [id-ruby] iAsk: showing UTC as PST with to_pst ?


        --- Rie! <ariekusumaatmaja2@ gmail.com> wrote:

        > On 28/03/2008, Edwin Pratomo <edpratomo@yahoo. co.id> wrote:
        >
        > > class Time
        > > def self.pst
        > > begin
        > > old_tz = ENV['TZ']
        > > ENV['TZ'] = "US/Pacific"
        > > t = Time.now
        >
        > from this line, what if you're dissallowed to write Time.now? what if
        > there is an existed time already, say : 1.week.ago . Do you have any
        > ideas how to *get* that 1.week.ago.pst .... That's why I emphasized
        > the output result should exist as a Time object instance instead of
        > Time class method.

        in that case you need to know the time difference for the timezone of interest,
        as described by hal fulton (in his ruby way).
        TZ env doesn't help since localtime() syscall is called only once (i.e. it is
        cached). but I think you can use the TZ env to generate a mapping between
        timzeone and time difference with UTC.

        rgds,
        Edwin.

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      • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
        ... Jika Anda punya masalah (tentang dunia ruby tentunya) yang ingin diutarakan dan didiskusikan bersama dengan komunitas Ruby Indonesia, silakan utarakan
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 10, 2008
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          On 10/04/2008, polutan <linspirell@...> wrote:

          > kok pake bhs inggris sih?
          > pake bhs Indonesia aja napa? yg laen kan ndak ngerti...

          Jika Anda punya masalah (tentang dunia ruby tentunya) yang ingin
          diutarakan dan didiskusikan bersama dengan komunitas Ruby Indonesia,
          silakan utarakan (dalam bahasa yg Anda merasa paling nyaman
          menggunakannya dan sekiranya saling mengerti antara sesama kawan-kawan
          di ID Ruby). Di Milis ID Ruby bebas mau pakai bahasa apa saja
          sepanjang semua saling mengerti maka tidak ada masalah (dan hal ini
          sebenarnya juga sudah otomatis dikirimkan setiap satu bulan sekali),
          kalau ada beberapa kawan yang merasa kurang jelas, tentu sangat boleh
          untuk mempertanyakan bagian yang mana yang kurang jelas. Apakah Anda
          punya masalah sama persis seperti yang saya punya dulu itu? (Walau
          sebetulnya ternyata masalah yang di thread ini sudah dapat solusinya
          bahkan ketika sebelum saya memposting pertama kali tentang thread
          timezone ini)

          Anyway, I found time features also from rake command in rails dir. I
          guess I posted a blog about this as well. But I'm not sure how I can
          use elegantly though.

          m:moneyhats arie$ rake -T time
          (in /Users/arie/spikes/moneyhats)
          rake time:zones:all # Displays names of all time zones recognized by the...
          rake time:zones:local # Displays names of time zones recognized by the Rai...
          rake time:zones:us # Displays names of US time zones recognized by the ...

          m:moneyhats arie$ script/about|grep Edge
          Edge Rails revision 9246

          I mean, of course it's trivial to just display it, I even saw its
          source code already. I mean how to set time to be PST using this new
          rails edge feature. so we're not gonna do callback or before save then
          set time from UTC to PST then save time then set it back again to UTC
          as I know that's nasty and not elegant.

          --
          blog: http://tinyurl.com/2bjgvn,
          ruby: http://www.ruby-lang.org/id/about

          "Developer Time is expensive...
          Servers are cheap...", Ezra Zygmuntowicz - Merb
        • Widi Harsojo
          rails dah support tuh pake lib tzinfo C: edge rails rails_trunk activesupport lib active_support vendor tzinfo-0.3.8 tzinfo dan silahkan cek di sini..
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 10, 2008
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            rails dah support tuh pake lib tzinfo
            C:\edge\rails\rails_trunk\activesupport\lib\active_support\vendor\tzinfo-0.3.8\tzinfo

            dan silahkan cek di sini..
            http://mad.ly/2008/04/09/rails-21-time-zone-support-an-overview/

            best regards,
            widi harsojo

            On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:23 PM, polutan <linspirell@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > kok pake bhs inggris sih?
            > pake bhs Indonesia aja napa? yg laen kan ndak ngerti...
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: Edwin Pratomo <edpratomo@...>
            > To: id-ruby@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:51:56 PM
            > Subject: Balasan: Re: Balasan: Re: Balasan: Re: Balasan: [id-ruby] iAsk:
            > showing UTC as PST with to_pst ?
            >
            > --- Rie! <ariekusumaatmaja2@ gmail.com> wrote:
            >
            > > On 28/03/2008, Edwin Pratomo <edpratomo@yahoo. co.id> wrote:
            > >
            > > > class Time
            > > > def self.pst
            > > > begin
            > > > old_tz = ENV['TZ']
            > > > ENV['TZ'] = "US/Pacific"
            > > > t = Time.now
            > >
            > > from this line, what if you're dissallowed to write Time.now? what if
            > > there is an existed time already, say : 1.week.ago . Do you have any
            > > ideas how to *get* that 1.week.ago.pst .... That's why I emphasized
            > > the output result should exist as a Time object instance instead of
            > > Time class method.
            >
            > in that case you need to know the time difference for the timezone of
            > interest,
            > as described by hal fulton (in his ruby way).
            > TZ env doesn't help since localtime() syscall is called only once (i.e. it
            > is
            > cached). but I think you can use the TZ env to generate a mapping between
            > timzeone and time difference with UTC.
            >
            > rgds,
            > Edwin.
            >
            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________
            > Bergabunglah dengan orang-orang yang berwawasan, di di bidang Anda!
            > Kunjungi Yahoo! Answers saat ini juga di http://id.answers yahoo.com/
            >
            >
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          • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
            ... Thanks for the link, however, I knew how to use this time zone using tzinfo (with or without the rubygem / or meaning with rails support or without its
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 10, 2008
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              On 10/04/2008, Widi Harsojo <wharsojo@...> wrote:

              > rails dah support tuh pake lib tzinfo
              > C:\edge\rails\rails_trunk\activesupport\lib\active_support\vendor\tzinfo-0.3.8\tzinfo
              >
              > dan silahkan cek di sini..
              > http://mad.ly/2008/04/09/rails-21-time-zone-support-an-overview/

              Thanks for the link, however, I knew how to use this time zone using
              tzinfo (with or without the rubygem / or meaning with rails support or
              without its support).

              Look, this one line is scarry me -_-

              config.time_zone = 'Central Time (US & Canada)'

              I copy pasted the line above from that site, I actually implemented in
              one of my sites though, but not for the serious one. -_-

              Anyone knows how to save *BOTH* UTC *AND* PST, so just say we have
              created_at (as for the default one we use it just the same like the
              UNIX/Linux Server locale = UTC), then we also want to have
              created_at_pst (this one is by all mean in pst) just in case "the
              extremely agile team" want to change it again in the future. or just
              speak up of any other much better suggestions.

              ps. so to emphasize, we MUST NOT use config.time_zone, we MUST NOT use
              Time.zone = "blah". What'll we do?

              > best regards,
              >
              > widi harsojo



              --
              blog: http://tinyurl.com/2bjgvn,
              ruby: http://www.ruby-lang.org/id/about

              "Developer Time is expensive...
              Servers are cheap...", Ezra Zygmuntowicz - Merb
            • Yohanes Santoso
              ... Kenapa tidak simpan UTC dan produksi PST seperlunya? YS
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 10, 2008
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                "Arie Kusuma Atmaja" <ariekusumaatmaja2@...> writes:

                > Anyone knows how to save *BOTH* UTC *AND* PST, so just say we have

                Kenapa tidak simpan UTC dan produksi PST seperlunya?

                YS

                > created_at (as for the default one we use it just the same like the
                > UNIX/Linux Server locale = UTC), then we also want to have
                > created_at_pst (this one is by all mean in pst) just in case "the
                > extremely agile team" want to change it again in the future. or just
                > speak up of any other much better suggestions.
              • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
                ... (1) Cos I want to save the default time as UTC. I only need to show only reporting systems based by PST. By asking me such question you re reminding me of
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 11, 2008
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                  On 11/04/2008, Yohanes Santoso <yahoo-id-ruby@...> wrote:

                  > Kenapa tidak simpan UTC dan produksi PST seperlunya?

                  (1) Cos I want to save the default time as UTC. I only need to show
                  only reporting systems based by PST.
                  By asking me such question you're reminding me of YAGNI, but (2) just
                  in case if in the future team wants to change time again based by
                  European Time. Then what shall we do if we don't have an original time
                  backup. You got any suggestions, nome?

                  Well, I actually haven't tried that new rake thing as tzinfo's been
                  included in rails edge (inside code, course it's super easy only to do
                  rake time bla bla on Terminal or outside the app but that's only
                  impressing business guys and they'll say: whoaaa fancy looking, oooh
                  it's cute, arie, such adorable bla bla bla ||= which usually turned to
                  be unexpected I/O to me) -_-

                  > YS

                  --
                  blog: http://tinyurl.com/2bjgvn,
                  ruby: http://www.ruby-lang.org/id/about

                  "Developer Time is expensive...
                  Servers are cheap...", Ezra Zygmuntowicz - Merb
                • Yohanes Santoso
                  ... Supaya memastikan saya mengerti jelas apa yang Arie bicarakan, saya akan kasih sebuah contoh menurut pengertian saya. Kalau tidak benar, tolong koreksi:
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 11, 2008
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                    "Arie Kusuma Atmaja" <ariekusumaatmaja2@...> writes:

                    > On 11/04/2008, Yohanes Santoso <yahoo-id-ruby@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Kenapa tidak simpan UTC dan produksi PST seperlunya?
                    >
                    > (1) Cos I want to save the default time as UTC. I only need to show
                    > only reporting systems based by PST.

                    Supaya memastikan saya mengerti jelas apa yang Arie bicarakan, saya
                    akan kasih sebuah contoh menurut pengertian saya. Kalau tidak benar,
                    tolong koreksi: Arie punya sebuah saat. Untuk gampangnya kita bilang
                    bahwa saat yang Arie punya itu adalah saat yang sama dengan saat di
                    mana saya sedang menulis kalimat ini. Saat ini bisa di representasikan
                    sebagai 2008-04-11 13:11 UTC atau 2008-04-11 06:11 PDT (PDT karena
                    sedang daylight savings time, jadinya tidak ada 2008-04-11 06:11
                    PST). Yang UTC untuk di simpan ke persistent storage dan yang PDT
                    untuk di pakai di reporting.

                    Karena itu Arie mau punya dua method yang mengeluarkan representasi
                    berbeda?
                    ``created_at`` mengeluarkan representasi UTC, dan
                    ``created_at_pacifictime`` mengeluarkan representasi PST atau PDT
                    (tergantung apa ada daylight savings time atau tidak).

                    Kalau nanti ingin mendapatkan representation dalam timezone lainnya,
                    apakah akan ada ``created_at_wib``, ``created_at_wita``,
                    ``created_at_wit``, dst.?

                    YS

                    > just in case if in the future team wants to change time again based
                    > by European Time. Then what shall we do if we don't have an original
                    > time backup. You got any suggestions, nome?
                    >
                    > Well, I actually haven't tried that new rake thing as tzinfo's been
                    > included in rails edge (inside code, course it's super easy only to do
                    > rake time bla bla on Terminal or outside the app but that's only
                    > impressing business guys and they'll say: whoaaa fancy looking, oooh
                    > it's cute, arie, such adorable bla bla bla ||= which usually turned to
                    > be unexpected I/O to me) -_-
                    >
                    >> YS
                  • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
                    ... Exactly. Correct. ... could be, but then i m thinking of how to organize my codes to be much better and cleaner though, or I ll usually be strict to the
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 11, 2008
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                      On 11/04/2008, Yohanes Santoso <yahoo-id-ruby@...> wrote:

                      > Supaya memastikan saya mengerti jelas apa yang Arie bicarakan, saya
                      > akan kasih sebuah contoh menurut pengertian saya. Kalau tidak benar,
                      > tolong koreksi

                      Exactly. Correct.

                      > Kalau nanti ingin mendapatkan representation dalam timezone lainnya,
                      > apakah akan ada ``created_at_wib``, ``created_at_wita``,
                      > ``created_at_wit``, dst.?

                      could be, but then i'm thinking of how to organize my codes to be much
                      better and cleaner though, or I'll usually be strict to the team by
                      asking : hey will you change time zone again? :( otherwise i'll just
                      make it as a default one PST only.

                      > YS

                      --
                      blog: http://tinyurl.com/2bjgvn,
                      ruby: http://www.ruby-lang.org/id/about

                      "Developer Time is expensive...
                      Servers are cheap...", Ezra Zygmuntowicz - Merb
                    • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
                      ... =)) ignore that paragraph, cos i knew the answer dang! name:string time_zone:string just save these fields for each members and modify codes easily. --
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 11, 2008
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                        On 11/04/2008, Arie Kusuma Atmaja <ariekusumaatmaja2@...> wrote:

                        > could be, but then i'm thinking of how to organize my codes to be much
                        > better and cleaner though

                        :-P

                        =))

                        ignore that paragraph, cos i knew the answer dang! name:string
                        time_zone:string just save these fields for each members and modify
                        codes easily.

                        --
                        blog: http://tinyurl.com/2bjgvn,
                        ruby: http://www.ruby-lang.org/id/about

                        "Developer Time is expensive...
                        Servers are cheap...", Ezra Zygmuntowicz - Merb
                      • Yohanes Santoso
                        ... Jadinya, apakah Arie akan buat methods seperti: add_decimal add_hexadecimal add_octal Di mana: 4.add_decimal(6) # == 10 4.add_hexadecimal(6) # == 0xa
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 11, 2008
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                          "Arie Kusuma Atmaja" <ariekusumaatmaja2@...> writes:

                          > On 11/04/2008, Yohanes Santoso <yahoo-id-ruby@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Supaya memastikan saya mengerti jelas apa yang Arie bicarakan, saya
                          >> akan kasih sebuah contoh menurut pengertian saya. Kalau tidak benar,
                          >> tolong koreksi
                          >
                          > Exactly. Correct.
                          >
                          >> Kalau nanti ingin mendapatkan representation dalam timezone lainnya,
                          >> apakah akan ada ``created_at_wib``, ``created_at_wita``,
                          >> ``created_at_wit``, dst.?
                          >
                          > could be, but then i'm thinking of how to organize my codes to be much
                          > better and cleaner though, or I'll usually be strict to the team by
                          > asking : hey will you change time zone again? :( otherwise i'll just
                          > make it as a default one PST only.

                          Jadinya, apakah Arie akan buat methods seperti:

                          add_decimal
                          add_hexadecimal
                          add_octal

                          Di mana:

                          4.add_decimal(6) # ==> "10"
                          4.add_hexadecimal(6) # ==> "0xa"
                          4.add_octal(6) # ==> "012"

                          Capek dong...


                          YS
                        • Arie Kusuma Atmaja
                          ... course not -_- no worries, they provided it already in rails http://mad.ly/2008/04/09/rails-21-time-zone-support-an-overview/ ps. sorry i mean it means
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 11, 2008
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                            On 11/04/2008, Yohanes Santoso <yahoo-id-ruby@...> wrote:

                            > Jadinya, apakah Arie akan buat methods seperti:
                            >
                            > add_decimal
                            > add_hexadecimal
                            > add_octal
                            >
                            > Di mana:
                            >
                            > 4.add_decimal(6) # ==> "10"
                            > 4.add_hexadecimal(6) # ==> "0xa"
                            > 4.add_octal(6) # ==> "012"
                            >
                            > Capek dong...

                            course not -_- no worries, they provided it already in rails

                            http://mad.ly/2008/04/09/rails-21-time-zone-support-an-overview/

                            ps. sorry i mean "it" means time_zone

                            > YS

                            --
                            blog: http://tinyurl.com/2bjgvn,
                            ruby: http://www.ruby-lang.org/id/about

                            "Developer Time is expensive...
                            Servers are cheap...", Ezra Zygmuntowicz - Merb
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