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2d6 vs DC 7 OR 3d6 vs DC 10

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  • Merlin the Wizard
    Hey Guys, Lately my son has been asking to play some games like you do with your friends . I am more than happy to accommodate him. We ve done
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 11, 2014
      Hey Guys,
      Lately my son has been asking to play some games "like you do with your friends". I am more than happy to accommodate him. We've done rock-paper-scissors story games with him in the past but now (at the ripe old age of 6) he is looking for something more formal. 

      A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition only mechanic. I know the direct switch for 1d6-1d6 would be 2d6 vs DC 7 but I'm thinking that DC 10+Trait would be easier for him to do quickly.

      The Mutants and Masterminds 2e Mastermind's Manual has some advice on running M&M with 3d6 but I was hoping the ICONS folks would have some thoughts on specific pitfalls to watch out for with ICONS. I'm concerned I should shift the major and massive success thresholds.

      Other house rules I'll likely be using:
      Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
      Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"
      Consequences instead of Strength Damage - Low Lethality

      Many thanks in advance.

      P.S. There used to be a fantasy hack for ICONS but I seem to have lost track of it. Does anyone have a copy?


    • Mike Olson
      I wrote a sword & sorcery hack for Icons a while ago called Sigils; maybe that s what you re thinking of (he said, flattering himself). It ended up drifting
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 11, 2014

        I wrote a sword & sorcery hack for Icons a while ago called Sigils; maybe that's what you're thinking of (he said, flattering himself). It ended up drifting pretty far from baseline Icons mechanics, but I still have the earlier drafts around here somewhere, if you're interested.

        --Mike

        On Apr 11, 2014 7:25 AM, "Merlin the Wizard" <plusonesword@...> wrote:


        Hey Guys,
        Lately my son has been asking to play some games "like you do with your friends". I am more than happy to accommodate him. We've done rock-paper-scissors story games with him in the past but now (at the ripe old age of 6) he is looking for something more formal. 

        A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition only mechanic. I know the direct switch for 1d6-1d6 would be 2d6 vs DC 7 but I'm thinking that DC 10+Trait would be easier for him to do quickly.

        The Mutants and Masterminds 2e Mastermind's Manual has some advice on running M&M with 3d6 but I was hoping the ICONS folks would have some thoughts on specific pitfalls to watch out for with ICONS. I'm concerned I should shift the major and massive success thresholds.

        Other house rules I'll likely be using:
        Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
        Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"
        Consequences instead of Strength Damage - Low Lethality

        Many thanks in advance.

        P.S. There used to be a fantasy hack for ICONS but I seem to have lost track of it. Does anyone have a copy?




      • Cameron Mount
        How would he do with Fudge Dice? That wouldn t need rebalancing in the same way that shifting the kinds of dice would. If you don t have Fudge Dice, you can
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 11, 2014
          How would he do with Fudge Dice? That wouldn't need rebalancing in the same way that shifting the kinds of dice would. If you don't have Fudge Dice, you can draw lines/color in standard dice to make them into Fudge Dice pretty easily).

          Inline image 1


          On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Mike Olson <devlin1@...> wrote:
           

          I wrote a sword & sorcery hack for Icons a while ago called Sigils; maybe that's what you're thinking of (he said, flattering himself). It ended up drifting pretty far from baseline Icons mechanics, but I still have the earlier drafts around here somewhere, if you're interested.

          --Mike

          On Apr 11, 2014 7:25 AM, "Merlin the Wizard" <plusonesword@...> wrote:


          Hey Guys,
          Lately my son has been asking to play some games "like you do with your friends". I am more than happy to accommodate him. We've done rock-paper-scissors story games with him in the past but now (at the ripe old age of 6) he is looking for something more formal. 

          A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition only mechanic. I know the direct switch for 1d6-1d6 would be 2d6 vs DC 7 but I'm thinking that DC 10+Trait would be easier for him to do quickly.

          The Mutants and Masterminds 2e Mastermind's Manual has some advice on running M&M with 3d6 but I was hoping the ICONS folks would have some thoughts on specific pitfalls to watch out for with ICONS. I'm concerned I should shift the major and massive success thresholds.

          Other house rules I'll likely be using:
          Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
          Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"
          Consequences instead of Strength Damage - Low Lethality

          Many thanks in advance.

          P.S. There used to be a fantasy hack for ICONS but I seem to have lost track of it. Does anyone have a copy?





        • John McMullen
          With my son, whose math skills were at the time rudimentary, I used this system, which had very little math, but you did have to remember plus and minus (and
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 11, 2014
            With my son, whose math skills were at the time rudimentary, I used this system, which had very little math, but you did have to remember plus and minus (and it's on the wiki, I think). Yes: It's the High-Drop variant here: http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com/Dice+Variant

            Pick a + and a - die so you can tell them apart (size, color, whatever).

            Roll'em.

            Get rid of the highest one (by absolute value). If you rolled doubles, they're both the highest one, so you drop'em both and are left with zero.

            If the guy knows his numbers to six, this is just a comparison and only the (acting attribute)+(roll result) is needed.

            For didactic purposes, the positive is always first in these examples (p,n):

            (5,6) -> +5
            (1,3) -> +1
            (2,3) -> +2
            (3,3) -> +0
            (4,2) -> -2
            (5,3) -> -3
            (3,5) -> +3
            (6,6) -> +0

            If you have Fudge dice, they're pretty easy to use, and one of the books had advice on using them.

            PS. I liked Sigils.

            John McMullen (Searching for a .sig--drat, it's under the couch)
            jhmcmullen@...  

            On Apr 11, 2014 7:25 AM, "Merlin the Wizard" <plusonesword@...> wrote:


            Hey Guys,
            Lately my son has been asking to play some games "like you do with your friends". I am more than happy to accommodate him. We've done rock-paper-scissors story games with him in the past but now (at the ripe old age of 6) he is looking for something more formal. 

            A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition only mechanic. I know the direct switch for 1d6-1d6 would be 2d6 vs DC 7 but I'm thinking that DC 10+Trait would be easier for him to do quickly.

            The Mutants and Masterminds 2e Mastermind's Manual has some advice on running M&M with 3d6 but I was hoping the ICONS folks would have some thoughts on specific pitfalls to watch out for with ICONS. I'm concerned I should shift the major and massive success thresholds.

            Other house rules I'll likely be using:
            Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
            Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"
            Consequences instead of Strength Damage - Low Lethality

            Many thanks in advance.

            P.S. There used to be a fantasy hack for ICONS but I seem to have lost track of it. Does anyone have a copy?








          • Merlin the Wizard
            Hey Mike, Yes, I was actually thinking of the Sigils rules. I remember liking the generic way that locations were handled. From the North etc. I m surprised
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 11, 2014
              Hey Mike,
              Yes, I was actually thinking of the Sigils rules. I remember liking the generic way that locations were handled. "From the North" etc. I'm surprised I no longer have it. It could just be burried somewhere on my hard drive but if you have a copy, that would be great. The link on the Wiki no longer works.


              On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Mike Olson <devlin1@...> wrote:
               

              I wrote a sword & sorcery hack for Icons a while ago called Sigils; maybe that's what you're thinking of (he said, flattering himself). It ended up drifting pretty far from baseline Icons mechanics, but I still have the earlier drafts around here somewhere, if you're interested.

              --Mike

              On Apr 11, 2014 7:25 AM, "Merlin the Wizard" <plusonesword@...> wrote:


              Hey Guys,
              Lately my son has been asking to play some games "like you do with your friends". I am more than happy to accommodate him. We've done rock-paper-scissors story games with him in the past but now (at the ripe old age of 6) he is looking for something more formal. 

              A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition only mechanic. I know the direct switch for 1d6-1d6 would be 2d6 vs DC 7 but I'm thinking that DC 10+Trait would be easier for him to do quickly.

              The Mutants and Masterminds 2e Mastermind's Manual has some advice on running M&M with 3d6 but I was hoping the ICONS folks would have some thoughts on specific pitfalls to watch out for with ICONS. I'm concerned I should shift the major and massive success thresholds.

              Other house rules I'll likely be using:
              Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
              Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"
              Consequences instead of Strength Damage - Low Lethality

              Many thanks in advance.

              P.S. There used to be a fantasy hack for ICONS but I seem to have lost track of it. Does anyone have a copy?





            • Blacksteel
              I ll suggest this: player rolls 1d6 + trait, GM rolls 1d6 + trait, high total wins. It gets away from the whole GM never rolls thing but it s pretty easy to
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 11, 2014
                I'll suggest this: player rolls 1d6 + trait, GM rolls 1d6 + trait, high total wins. It gets away from the whole "GM never rolls" thing but it's pretty easy to manage and if it's just you and your son it gives you both a part in every test.


                On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Merlin the Wizard <plusonesword@...> wrote:
                 

                Hey Guys,
                Lately my son has been asking to play some games "like you do with your friends". I am more than happy to accommodate him. We've done rock-paper-scissors story games with him in the past but now (at the ripe old age of 6) he is looking for something more formal. 

                A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition only mechanic. I know the direct switch for 1d6-1d6 would be 2d6 vs DC 7 but I'm thinking that DC 10+Trait would be easier for him to do quickly.

                The Mutants and Masterminds 2e Mastermind's Manual has some advice on running M&M with 3d6 but I was hoping the ICONS folks would have some thoughts on specific pitfalls to watch out for with ICONS. I'm concerned I should shift the major and massive success thresholds.

                Other house rules I'll likely be using:
                Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
                Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"
                Consequences instead of Strength Damage - Low Lethality

                Many thanks in advance.

                P.S. There used to be a fantasy hack for ICONS but I seem to have lost track of it. Does anyone have a copy?





                --
                Blacksteel
              • Steve Kenson
                ... You might try the new approach in the Assembled Edition: the player rolls 1d6 and adds it to the acting ability (such as Prowess). The GM rolls 1d6 and
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 12, 2014
                  On Apr 12, 2014, at 5:20 AM, icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                  > A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something
                  > his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition
                  > only mechanic.

                  You might try the new approach in the Assembled Edition: the player rolls 1d6 and adds it to the acting ability (such as Prowess). The GM rolls 1d6 and adds it to the difficulty. Same odds, but it's all addition (except for figuring the difference between effort and difficulty for outcome).

                  > Other house rules I'll likely be using:
                  > Fate Core style Aspects - A shorter list will be easier for him to handle.
                  > Maneuvers - I'd like to encourage him to think beyond "I hit the bad guy"

                  I think you'll be happy with the Assembled Edition when it comes along, then. A consolidated Qualities list and Maneuvers become standard.
                  _____
                  Steve Kenson
                  stevekenson@...
                  www.stevekenson.com
                • Jonathan Lang
                  ... Yes! And even the difference between effort and difficulty isn’t something the first-grader will need to worry about: the larger number wins; and it
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 12, 2014




                    On Apr 12, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...> wrote:

                     

                    On Apr 12, 2014, at 5:20 AM, icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                    > A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something
                    > his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition
                    > only mechanic.

                    You might try the new approach in the Assembled Edition: the player rolls 1d6 and adds it to the acting ability (such as Prowess). The GM rolls 1d6 and adds it to the difficulty. Same odds, but it's all addition (except for figuring the difference between effort and difficulty for outcome).

                    Yes!  And even the difference between effort and difficulty isn’t something the first-grader will need to worry about: the larger number wins; and it either wins by a little or by a lot.  That’s probably going to be good enough for him, whereas you can do the “onerous” task of finding the difference.  
                  • Merlin the Wizard
                    Thank you very much everyone. I d gotten it into my head that adding more dice was the way to go and didn t even think about the option of reducing the number
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 16, 2014
                      Thank you very much everyone.
                      I'd gotten it into my head that adding more dice was the way to go and didn't even think about the option of reducing the number of dice. 

                      Tomorrow is my day to be home from work during spring break so we'll be trying things out for the first time (after we finish up our game of Smash Up). I have high hopes.

                      Thanks again.



                      On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jonathan Lang <dataweaver@...> wrote:
                       





                      On Apr 12, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...> wrote:

                       

                      On Apr 12, 2014, at 5:20 AM, icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                      > A quick test combat unfortunately showed me that 1d6-1d6 was not something
                      > his 1st grade education was ready for. So I wanted to switch to an addition
                      > only mechanic.

                      You might try the new approach in the Assembled Edition: the player rolls 1d6 and adds it to the acting ability (such as Prowess). The GM rolls 1d6 and adds it to the difficulty. Same odds, but it's all addition (except for figuring the difference between effort and difficulty for outcome).

                      Yes!  And even the difference between effort and difficulty isn’t something the first-grader will need to worry about: the larger number wins; and it either wins by a little or by a lot.  That’s probably going to be good enough for him, whereas you can do the “onerous” task of finding the difference.  


                    • Jonathan Lang
                      ... …or of splitting them up. But yeah, having the extent of the math your son needs to do be “add one die to a rating” definitely simplifies things.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 16, 2014




                        On Apr 16, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Merlin the Wizard <plusonesword@...> wrote:

                         

                        Thank you very much everyone.
                        I'd gotten it into my head that adding more dice was the way to go and didn't even think about the option of reducing the number of dice. 

                        …or of splitting them up.  But yeah, having the extent of the math your son needs to do be “add one die to a rating” definitely simplifies things.  

                        Tomorrow is my day to be home from work during spring break so we'll be trying things out for the first time (after we finish up our game of Smash Up). I have high hopes.

                        I’m curious how it will go.  If the rules are simple enough that a child who hasn’t yet mastered the basic arithmetic skills (addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division) can use it without difficulty, that says something very positive about the system.
                      • Steve Kenson
                        ... Good luck with it! Let us know how it goes! _____ Steve Kenson stevekenson@me.com www.stevekenson.com
                        Message 11 of 11 , Apr 17, 2014
                          On Apr 17, 2014, at 5:10 AM, icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                          Tomorrow is my day to be home from work during spring break so we'll be
                          trying things out for the first time

                          Good luck with it! Let us know how it goes!
                          _____
                          Steve Kenson
                          stevekenson@...
                          www.stevekenson.com
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