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Icons Assemble!

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  • Steve Kenson
    Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition http://greenronin.com/2014/03/ronin_roundtable_icons_assembl.php _____ Steve Kenson stevekenson@me.com
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 24 12:35 PM
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      Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition


      _____
      Steve Kenson
      stevekenson@...
      www.stevekenson.com





    • Curt
      Must by this now... Preorder link please! Sent from my iPhone
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 24 12:54 PM
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        Must by this now... Preorder link please!

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Mar 24, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...> wrote:

         

        Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition




      • Mike Morgado
        Sweet! I ll be getting it. ________________________________ From: Steve Kenson To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 24 12:55 PM
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          Sweet!

          I'll be getting it.


          From: Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...>
          To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 3:35:30 PM
          Subject: [icons-rpg] Icons Assemble!

           
          Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition


          _____
          Steve Kenson
          stevekenson@...
          www.stevekenson.com







        • Blacksteel
          I had an ICONS post set to go for tomorrow - looks like I ll need to update it now! Looking forward to this one. ... -- Blacksteel
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 24 12:58 PM
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            I had an ICONS post set to go for tomorrow - looks like I'll need to update it now!

            Looking forward to this one.


            On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Mike Morgado <cm.morgado@...> wrote:
             

            Sweet!

            I'll be getting it.


            From: Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...>
            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 3:35:30 PM
            Subject: [icons-rpg] Icons Assemble!

             
            Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition








            --
            Blacksteel
          • Gerry
            ... Soultaker Studios Blog: http://soultakerstudios.blogspot.com/
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 24 12:58 PM
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              >Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition

              This is really great news! 


              
              Soultaker Studios Blog: http://soultakerstudios.blogspot.com/
            • kroh01
              WOW! Big News, Congrats! Is this going to be the same size as the other books? Will we see a hard Cover? So many questions. Regards, Walt
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 24 1:01 PM
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                WOW!  Big News, Congrats!  Is this going to be the same size as the other books?  Will we see a hard Cover?  So many questions.

                Regards, 
                Walt
              • Cameron Mount
                Excellent news!
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 24 1:48 PM
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                  Excellent news!

                  On Monday, March 24, 2014, Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...> wrote:
                   

                  Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition




                • Hollis McCray
                  Epic. ... -- Hollis McCray aka The Fifth Wanderer ascensionschild@gmail.com GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 24 2:43 PM
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                    Epic.


                    On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...> wrote:
                     

                    Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition







                    --
                    Hollis McCray
                    aka The Fifth Wanderer

                    ascensionschild@...

                    "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere
                  • Chris Tavares
                    Cool! A couple questions. 1) Does it have to be hardcover? I really like the current form factor and ease of transport and lighter weight of the softback.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 24 4:26 PM
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                      Cool!

                       

                      A couple questions.

                       

                      1)      Does it have to be hardcover? I really like the current form factor and ease of transport and lighter weight of the softback.

                      2)      Will it be staying graphic novel size? Or digest? I’ve got enough games scattered around my bookshelves because they don’t all fit on the same shelf vertically. J

                       

                      Thanks,

                       

                      -Chris

                       

                      From: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Kenson
                      Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 12:36 PM
                      To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [icons-rpg] Icons Assemble!

                       

                       

                      Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition

                       

                       

                      _____
                      Steve Kenson
                      stevekenson@...
                      www.stevekenson.com



                       

                    • Jonathan Lang
                      Interesting: two classic systems from the 80s (DC Heroes and Marvel Superheroes) each have spiritual descendants designed by Steve Kenson (Mutants &
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 24 10:38 PM
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                        Interesting: two classic systems from the 80s (DC Heroes and Marvel Superheroes) each have spiritual descendants designed by Steve Kenson (Mutants & Masterminds and Icons, respectively).  

                        On Mar 24, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...> wrote:

                         

                        Coming this summer... Icons: The Assembled Edition




                      • Tim K.
                        ... He s just a child of the 80s :D
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 24 10:46 PM
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                          On 3/25/2014 12:38 AM, Jonathan Lang wrote:
                          Interesting: two classic systems from the 80s (DC Heroes and Marvel Superheroes) each have spiritual descendants designed by Steve Kenson (Mutants & Masterminds and Icons, respectively).  



                          He's just a child of the 80s :D


                        • Jakub Osiejewski
                          Will it be more compatible with fate core? There were a lot of cool concepts there, and we re going to use stress track and consequences hacked form it.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 25 4:22 AM
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                            Will it be more compatible with fate core? There were a lot of cool concepts there, and we're going to use stress track and consequences hacked form it.

                          • Steve Kenson
                            Icons Assembled will be a 6x9 hardcover book, the same form-factor as Great Power. No plans for a softcover edition at this time, although it s not out of the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 25 6:17 AM
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                              Icons Assembled will be a 6x9 hardcover book, the same form-factor as Great Power. No plans for a softcover edition at this time, although it's not out of the question, possibly as an eventual print-on-demand option (again, like Great Power). That'll be something to discuss with Green Ronin.
                              _____
                              Steve Kenson
                              stevekenson@...
                              www.stevekenson.com





                            • Mike Morgado
                              I love the fact that its going to be a hardcover.  ________________________________ From: Steve Kenson To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 25 6:25 AM
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                                I love the fact that its going to be a hardcover. 


                                From: Steve Kenson <stevekenson@...>
                                To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:17:07 AM
                                Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                 
                                Icons Assembled will be a 6x9 hardcover book, the same form-factor as Great Power. No plans for a softcover edition at this time, although it's not out of the question, possibly as an eventual print-on-demand option (again, like Great Power). That'll be something to discuss with Green Ronin.
                                _____
                                Steve Kenson
                                stevekenson@...
                                www.stevekenson.com







                              • Jonathan Lang
                                I know that the Great Power supplement included guidelines for using it with Fate Core. But do we really want that? Despite what Great Power says, some of
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 25 6:28 AM
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                                  I know that the Great Power supplement included guidelines for using it with Fate Core.  But do we really want that?  Despite what Great Power says, some of the changes needed for full compatibility with Fate Core would be fairly radical.  

                                  With no offense intended, I’m also not sure that Steve Kenson “gets” Fate Core: the conversion notes in Great Power show a superficial understanding of the differences between Icons and Fate.  I could be wrong, and I hope that I am: perhaps the apparent shallowness of those guidelines was a result of their brevity, or perhaps Steve has gained a deeper understanding of Fate since writing that section.  But there are some fundamental notional differences between the two games, not just mechanical and terminology changes.  And it’s possible that the Icons fanbase would be uncomfortable with some of them, such as the “Narrative is King” mindset that pervades Fate Core or the differences in jargon (“Abilities” instead of “Skills”; “Specialties” instead of “Stunts”; “Determination” instead of “Fate Points”; “Qualities” and “Complications” instead of “Aspects”; etc.).  

                                  If Icons Assembled _does_ aim for greater Fate compatibility, I would strongly encourage reading the Fate System Toolkit first; there are a number of useful ideas for how Icons could differentiate itself from Fate Core while still being something that the designer of Fate would accept as being a legitimate variation of Fate.  
                                • Soylent Green
                                  I see this from a different point of view. All in all I m not convinced I d want to see greater Fate integration into Icons, except as optional rules. One of
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 25 7:29 AM
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                                    I see this from a different point of view. All in all I'm not convinced I'd want to see greater Fate integration into Icons,  except as optional rules.

                                    One of Icons main selling points is simplicity. It's accessible, uncomplicated game you can just pick up and play. 

                                    Fate is a brilliant game but it is conceptually a complicated sort of game that can take a few plays to get used to. There is no complex maths in Fate but the abstract concepts can be tricky and even the streamlined FAE requires the players to make certain mental leaps. If you don't believe me just check out the RPGNet forum. On any one week there will be a post or two from someone who struggling to understand Fate or feels a little intimidated by it. 

                                    In its present form Icons manages to harness some aspects of Fate (pun intended) without losing its essential simplicity. This comes at the cost of losing some expressive power of full fat Fate. It's a trade off, and personally I think a very well judged one - it's got all the best of parts of Fate without any of the angst. This is what makes Icons unique.

                                    On the other hand there are already superhero rules for Fate proper, and more in the pipeline. As such a Fate compliant Icons would no longer be unique.

                                    What's more for Fate veterans it is actually quite simple to bring into Icons more sophisticated Fate concepts into Icons if they wish too. Great Power gives you a starting point, but hacking rules is very much part of the Fate culture anyway.  For someone who struggles to grasp Fate it would be much harder to strip out the complexity from a strongly Fate-enhanced version on Icons. 






                                    To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: dataweaver@...
                                    Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:28:57 -0700
                                    Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                     

                                    I know that the Great Power supplement included guidelines for using it with Fate Core.  But do we really want that?  Despite what Great Power says, some of the changes needed for full compatibility with Fate Core would be fairly radical.  

                                    With no offense intended, I’m also not sure that Steve Kenson “gets” Fate Core: the conversion notes in Great Power show a superficial understanding of the differences between Icons and Fate.  I could be wrong, and I hope that I am: perhaps the apparent shallowness of those guidelines was a result of their brevity, or perhaps Steve has gained a deeper understanding of Fate since writing that section.  But there are some fundamental notional differences between the two games, not just mechanical and terminology changes.  And it’s possible that the Icons fanbase would be uncomfortable with some of them, such as the “Narrative is King” mindset that pervades Fate Core or the differences in jargon (“Abilities” instead of “Skills”; “Specialties” instead of “Stunts”; “Determination” instead of “Fate Points”; “Qualities” and “Complications” instead of “Aspects”; etc.).  

                                    If Icons Assembled _does_ aim for greater Fate compatibility, I would strongly encourage reading the Fate System Toolkit first; there are a number of useful ideas for how Icons could differentiate itself from Fate Core while still being something that the designer of Fate would accept as being a legitimate variation of Fate.  

                                  • Curt
                                    There is a full-on FATE Core supers RPG currently kickstarting. Sent from my iPhone ... There is a full-on FATE Core supers RPG currently kickstarting. Sent
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 25 10:00 AM
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                                      There is a full-on FATE Core supers RPG currently kickstarting. 

                                      Sent from my iPhone

                                      On Mar 25, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      I see this from a different point of view. All in all I'm not convinced I'd want to see greater Fate integration into Icons,  except as optional rules.

                                      One of Icons main selling points is simplicity. It's accessible, uncomplicated game you can just pick up and play. 

                                      Fate is a brilliant game but it is conceptually a complicated sort of game that can take a few plays to get used to. There is no complex maths in Fate but the abstract concepts can be tricky and even the streamlined FAE requires the players to make certain mental leaps. If you don't believe me just check out the RPGNet forum. On any one week there will be a post or two from someone who struggling to understand Fate or feels a little intimidated by it. 

                                      In its present form Icons manages to harness some aspects of Fate (pun intended) without losing its essential simplicity. This comes at the cost of losing some expressive power of full fat Fate. It's a trade off, and personally I think a very well judged one - it's got all the best of parts of Fate without any of the angst. This is what makes Icons unique.

                                      On the other hand there are already superhero rules for Fate proper, and more in the pipeline. As such a Fate compliant Icons would no longer be unique.

                                      What's more for Fate veterans it is actually quite simple to bring into Icons more sophisticated Fate concepts into Icons if they wish too. Great Power gives you a starting point, but hacking rules is very much part of the Fate culture anyway.  For someone who struggles to grasp Fate it would be much harder to strip out the complexity from a strongly Fate-enhanced version on Icons. 






                                      To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: dataweaver@...
                                      Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:28:57 -0700
                                      Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                       

                                      I know that the Great Power supplement included guidelines for using it with Fate Core.  But do we really want that?  Despite what Great Power says, some of the changes needed for full compatibility with Fate Core would be fairly radical.  

                                      With no offense intended, I’m also not sure that Steve Kenson “gets” Fate Core: the conversion notes in Great Power show a superficial understanding of the differences between Icons and Fate.  I could be wrong, and I hope that I am: perhaps the apparent shallowness of those guidelines was a result of their brevity, or perhaps Steve has gained a deeper understanding of Fate since writing that section.  But there are some fundamental notional differences between the two games, not just mechanical and terminology changes.  And it’s possible that the Icons fanbase would be uncomfortable with some of them, such as the “Narrative is King” mindset that pervades Fate Core or the differences in jargon (“Abilities” instead of “Skills”; “Specialties” instead of “Stunts”; “Determination” instead of “Fate Points”; “Qualities” and “Complications” instead of “Aspects”; etc.).  

                                      If Icons Assembled _does_ aim for greater Fate compatibility, I would strongly encourage reading the Fate System Toolkit first; there are a number of useful ideas for how Icons could differentiate itself from Fate Core while still being something that the designer of Fate would accept as being a legitimate variation of Fate.  

                                    • Soylent Green
                                      My point exactly. To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com From: curtmeyer@gmail.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:00:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 25 10:06 AM
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                                        My point exactly.


                                        To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: curtmeyer@...
                                        Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:00:03 -0500
                                        Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                         

                                        There is a full-on FATE Core supers RPG currently kickstarting. 

                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                        On Mar 25, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        I see this from a different point of view. All in all I'm not convinced I'd want to see greater Fate integration into Icons,  except as optional rules.

                                        One of Icons main selling points is simplicity. It's accessible, uncomplicated game you can just pick up and play. 

                                        Fate is a brilliant game but it is conceptually a complicated sort of game that can take a few plays to get used to. There is no complex maths in Fate but the abstract concepts can be tricky and even the streamlined FAE requires the players to make certain mental leaps. If you don't believe me just check out the RPGNet forum. On any one week there will be a post or two from someone who struggling to understand Fate or feels a little intimidated by it. 

                                        In its present form Icons manages to harness some aspects of Fate (pun intended) without losing its essential simplicity. This comes at the cost of losing some expressive power of full fat Fate. It's a trade off, and personally I think a very well judged one - it's got all the best of parts of Fate without any of the angst. This is what makes Icons unique.

                                        On the other hand there are already superhero rules for Fate proper, and more in the pipeline. As such a Fate compliant Icons would no longer be unique.

                                        What's more for Fate veterans it is actually quite simple to bring into Icons more sophisticated Fate concepts into Icons if they wish too. Great Power gives you a starting point, but hacking rules is very much part of the Fate culture anyway.  For someone who struggles to grasp Fate it would be much harder to strip out the complexity from a strongly Fate-enhanced version on Icons. 






                                        To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: dataweaver@...
                                        Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:28:57 -0700
                                        Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                         

                                        I know that the Great Power supplement included guidelines for using it with Fate Core.  But do we really want that?  Despite what Great Power says, some of the changes needed for full compatibility with Fate Core would be fairly radical.  

                                        With no offense intended, I’m also not sure that Steve Kenson “gets” Fate Core: the conversion notes in Great Power show a superficial understanding of the differences between Icons and Fate.  I could be wrong, and I hope that I am: perhaps the apparent shallowness of those guidelines was a result of their brevity, or perhaps Steve has gained a deeper understanding of Fate since writing that section.  But there are some fundamental notional differences between the two games, not just mechanical and terminology changes.  And it’s possible that the Icons fanbase would be uncomfortable with some of them, such as the “Narrative is King” mindset that pervades Fate Core or the differences in jargon (“Abilities” instead of “Skills”; “Specialties” instead of “Stunts”; “Determination” instead of “Fate Points”; “Qualities” and “Complications” instead of “Aspects”; etc.).  

                                        If Icons Assembled _does_ aim for greater Fate compatibility, I would strongly encourage reading the Fate System Toolkit first; there are a number of useful ideas for how Icons could differentiate itself from Fate Core while still being something that the designer of Fate would accept as being a legitimate variation of Fate.  



                                      • Mike Morgado
                                        I am one of those people who owns Spirit of the Century and doesn t understand FATE. It seems way too complicated to me and personally like ICONS the way it
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 25 10:32 AM
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                                          I am one of those people who owns Spirit of the Century and doesn't understand FATE.
                                          It seems way too complicated to me and personally like ICONS the way it is. Making it more FATE like would drive me away from it.


                                          From: Curt <curtmeyer@...>
                                          To: "icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com" <icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:00:03 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                           
                                          There is a full-on FATE Core supers RPG currently kickstarting. 

                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                          On Mar 25, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:

                                           
                                          I see this from a different point of view. All in all I'm not convinced I'd want to see greater Fate integration into Icons,  except as optional rules.

                                          One of Icons main selling points is simplicity. It's accessible, uncomplicated game you can just pick up and play. 

                                          Fate is a brilliant game but it is conceptually a complicated sort of game that can take a few plays to get used to. There is no complex maths in Fate but the abstract concepts can be tricky and even the streamlined FAE requires the players to make certain mental leaps. If you don't believe me just check out the RPGNet forum. On any one week there will be a post or two from someone who struggling to understand Fate or feels a little intimidated by it. 

                                          In its present form Icons manages to harness some aspects of Fate (pun intended) without losing its essential simplicity. This comes at the cost of losing some expressive power of full fat Fate. It's a trade off, and personally I think a very well judged one - it's got all the best of parts of Fate without any of the angst. This is what makes Icons unique.

                                          On the other hand there are already superhero rules for Fate proper, and more in the pipeline. As such a Fate compliant Icons would no longer be unique.

                                          What's more for Fate veterans it is actually quite simple to bring into Icons more sophisticated Fate concepts into Icons if they wish too. Great Power gives you a starting point, but hacking rules is very much part of the Fate culture anyway.  For someone who struggles to grasp Fate it would be much harder to strip out the complexity from a strongly Fate-enhanced version on Icons. 






                                          To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: dataweaver@...
                                          Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:28:57 -0700
                                          Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons Assemble!

                                           

                                          I know that the Great Power supplement included guidelines for using it with Fate Core.  But do we really want that?  Despite what Great Power says, some of the changes needed for full compatibility with Fate Core would be fairly radical.  

                                          With no offense intended, I’m also not sure that Steve Kenson “gets” Fate Core: the conversion notes in Great Power show a superficial understanding of the differences between Icons and Fate.  I could be wrong, and I hope that I am: perhaps the apparent shallowness of those guidelines was a result of their brevity, or perhaps Steve has gained a deeper understanding of Fate since writing that section.  But there are some fundamental notional differences between the two games, not just mechanical and terminology changes.  And it’s possible that the Icons fanbase would be uncomfortable with some of them, such as the “Narrative is King” mindset that pervades Fate Core or the differences in jargon (“Abilities” instead of “Skills”; “Specialties” instead of “Stunts”; “Determination” instead of “Fate Points”; “Qualities” and “Complications” instead of “Aspects”; etc.).  

                                          If Icons Assembled _does_ aim for greater Fate compatibility, I would strongly encourage reading the Fate System Toolkit first; there are a number of useful ideas for how Icons could differentiate itself from Fate Core while still being something that the designer of Fate would accept as being a legitimate variation of Fate.  



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