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Re: Powerful minions/henchmen/etc for heroes

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  • stevekenson
    ... Yeah, minions-as-a-power isn t one of those things ICONS does great. The rulebook touches upon it with Animation (p. 35) which is kind of a
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 20, 2012
      On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Bruce wrote:
      In the case of masterminds, that's the kind of henchman they summon - robots, or demons, or ninjas, and so on.

      Yeah, minions-as-a-power isn't one of those things ICONS does great. The rulebook touches upon it with Animation (p. 35) which is kind of a "Create-A-Minion" power. Versions of a Summoning power have shown up in supplements. This is one I'm playing around with:

      SERVANT

      Control. You can create or summon a creature to serve you. Your servant has Strength equal to your power level, total Prowess and Coordination equal to your power level, and Stamina equal to Strength. They have no mental abilities and only act to carry out your commands. You must concentrate to command your servant.

      Generally, your servant has two powers equal to your power level: it can gain another by reducing Strength to 0. Common powers are offensive, defensive and movement.

      The GM approves all servants and can veto any unsuitable concepts. Villains often have this power at a level off the scale (Icons, p. 5), able to call upon legions of servants or minions in a way unsuitable for heroes.


      Stunts
      • Enhanced: Your servant gains Prowess and Coordination equal to your power level, rather than dividing your power level between the two abilities.
      • Extra Servant: You have two servants of the same type. Each time you add this stunt, you gain an extra servant.
      • Sensory Link: You can perceive through the senses of your servant, seeing and hearing everything they do.
      • Split: You can divide your power level amongst multiple servants; rather than summoning one at level 8, for example, you could summon four level 2 servants.
      There's also the issue of handling large numbers of minions: should they be summed up as a "swarm" type or given individual tests? Certainly, it's better to handle a swarm of trained bees as one entity but a mob of mind-controlled people might be another thing.

      _____
      Steve Kenson
      stevekenson@...
      www.stevekenson.com





    • Soylent Green
      Ah yes. I had a Pistols/Thugs mastermind too. She was so much fun I soloed her all teh way to 50 without even noticing. Nothing quite prepares you for the
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 20, 2012
        Ah yes. I had a Pistols/Thugs mastermind too. She was so much fun I soloed her all teh way to 50 without even noticing. Nothing quite prepares you for the thrill of seeing your brute arriving on a motorcycle for the first time!

        As for converting this to Icons, I'd be tempted to take Plant Control as a model. I am not saying thugs are just vegetables, but in ICONS mechanics term they might as well be. To simulate the multiple minions effect I'd allow the player to select this power multiple times as a bonus power - each rolled individually and each time times its selected  counting towards the starting DP pool.
         

         

        To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
        From: cameron.a.mount@...
        Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 07:02:00 -0500
        Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Powerful minions/henchmen/etc for heroes

         
        I also played CoH for a long time. I was in the closed and open betas and played for the first 13 months or so. Then I lapsed for a few years and started again with 6 months of subscription just before it went F2P, and then I played off and on until the announcement earlier this year.

        My favorite Mastermind was a character I called Mr. Bowler. He was a 19th Century Victorian criminal with pistols and thugs, who were the closest to the visual aesthetic I wanted.

        So, if I were to do him in ICONS, I'd look at Duplication as the parent power, but I would change the flavor slightly such that the henchmen weren't actually identical.


        On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Bruce Baugh <bbaugh@...> wrote:
         
        Hello, all! The proverbial first-time post here...

        One of the things I've been doing with ICONS is seeing how many of my
        soon-to-be-lost City of Heroes characters I can model in it. The
        answer is "a lot". But I'm a little stumped trying to figure out how
        to get the essence of the mastermind down.

        This is what's up with the CoH mastermind. In CoH, each character has
        a primary power set and a secondary one. An awesomely agile shooter
        might have Dual Pistols and Super Reflexes, for instance, while
        someone with an intuitive bond to fundamental forces might have
        Gravity Control and Time Manipulation. In general, the primary power
        set is the heavy hitter, the thing that lets a character make her mark
        on the world. In the case of masterminds, that's the kind of henchman
        they summon - robots, or demons, or ninjas, and so on.

        (Here's a short clip illustrating the point:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYKqP2SzAa0 - the player is mostly
        telling the bots who to target, and supporting with a little bit of
        trap laying. The bots do the damage.)

        Now I suppose one could take the shortcut of simply taking Blast and
        the like and having robots or whatever minions purely as descriptive
        fodder. But I never did like that. It feels like they should matter at
        least as much as ice slides and the like. But I'm a bit at a loss how
        to handle them well in ICONS.

        There _are_ minion rules, of course, but those are for basically
        disposable NPCs. This sort of henchman/companion is substantially more
        durable. It could well be that working in a simple custom riff on
        Animal Control would be the thing to do. Any other options I'm
        overlooking?

        Regards,
        Bruce




      • Cameron Mount
        That s actually a really good idea, too.
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 20, 2012
          That's actually a really good idea, too.


          On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
           

          Ah yes. I had a Pistols/Thugs mastermind too. She was so much fun I soloed her all teh way to 50 without even noticing. Nothing quite prepares you for the thrill of seeing your brute arriving on a motorcycle for the first time!

          As for converting this to Icons, I'd be tempted to take Plant Control as a model. I am not saying thugs are just vegetables, but in ICONS mechanics term they might as well be. To simulate the multiple minions effect I'd allow the player to select this power multiple times as a bonus power - each rolled individually and each time times its selected  counting towards the starting DP pool.
           

           

          To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
          From: cameron.a.mount@...
          Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 07:02:00 -0500
          Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Powerful minions/henchmen/etc for heroes


           
          I also played CoH for a long time. I was in the closed and open betas and played for the first 13 months or so. Then I lapsed for a few years and started again with 6 months of subscription just before it went F2P, and then I played off and on until the announcement earlier this year.

          My favorite Mastermind was a character I called Mr. Bowler. He was a 19th Century Victorian criminal with pistols and thugs, who were the closest to the visual aesthetic I wanted.

          So, if I were to do him in ICONS, I'd look at Duplication as the parent power, but I would change the flavor slightly such that the henchmen weren't actually identical.


          On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Bruce Baugh <bbaugh@...> wrote:
           
          Hello, all! The proverbial first-time post here...

          One of the things I've been doing with ICONS is seeing how many of my
          soon-to-be-lost City of Heroes characters I can model in it. The
          answer is "a lot". But I'm a little stumped trying to figure out how
          to get the essence of the mastermind down.

          This is what's up with the CoH mastermind. In CoH, each character has
          a primary power set and a secondary one. An awesomely agile shooter
          might have Dual Pistols and Super Reflexes, for instance, while
          someone with an intuitive bond to fundamental forces might have
          Gravity Control and Time Manipulation. In general, the primary power
          set is the heavy hitter, the thing that lets a character make her mark
          on the world. In the case of masterminds, that's the kind of henchman
          they summon - robots, or demons, or ninjas, and so on.

          (Here's a short clip illustrating the point:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYKqP2SzAa0 - the player is mostly
          telling the bots who to target, and supporting with a little bit of
          trap laying. The bots do the damage.)

          Now I suppose one could take the shortcut of simply taking Blast and
          the like and having robots or whatever minions purely as descriptive
          fodder. But I never did like that. It feels like they should matter at
          least as much as ice slides and the like. But I'm a bit at a loss how
          to handle them well in ICONS.

          There _are_ minion rules, of course, but those are for basically
          disposable NPCs. This sort of henchman/companion is substantially more
          durable. It could well be that working in a simple custom riff on
          Animal Control would be the thing to do. Any other options I'm
          overlooking?

          Regards,
          Bruce





        • Bruce Baugh
          Yeah, that definitely works as well, focusing on the effects that get delivered. How d you handle attacks aimed at the henchentities?
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 20, 2012
            Yeah, that definitely works as well, focusing on the effects that get delivered. How'd you handle attacks aimed at the henchentities?

            On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
             

            Ah yes. I had a Pistols/Thugs mastermind too. She was so much fun I soloed her all teh way to 50 without even noticing. Nothing quite prepares you for the thrill of seeing your brute arriving on a motorcycle for the first time!

            As for converting this to Icons, I'd be tempted to take Plant Control as a model. I am not saying thugs are just vegetables, but in ICONS mechanics term they might as well be. To simulate the multiple minions effect I'd allow the player to select this power multiple times as a bonus power - each rolled individually and each time times its selected  counting towards the starting DP pool.
          • Soylent Green
            With Plant Control I always just assumed that the plant-minions had Stamina points equal to the power s rank. Rereading the power I now realise that is not
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 21, 2012
              With Plant Control I always just assumed that the plant-minions had Stamina points equal to the power's rank. Rereading the power I now realise that is not actually in the rules.  

              That tends to happen a lot to me with ICONS, the boundary between the rules as written and my own interpretation and extrapolations tends to get pretty fuzzy. I've also deliberately made the same exact power work differently for different characters because that  is what made sense for that character.
               



              To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
              From: mrigashirsha@...
              Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:26:52 -0800
              Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Powerful minions/henchmen/etc for heroes

               
              Yeah, that definitely works as well, focusing on the effects that get delivered. How'd you handle attacks aimed at the henchentities?


              On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
               

              Ah yes. I had a Pistols/Thugs mastermind too. She was so much fun I soloed her all teh way to 50 without even noticing. Nothing quite prepares you for the thrill of seeing your brute arriving on a motorcycle for the first time!

              As for converting this to Icons, I'd be tempted to take Plant Control as a model. I am not saying thugs are just vegetables, but in ICONS mechanics term they might as well be. To simulate the multiple minions effect I'd allow the player to select this power multiple times as a bonus power - each rolled individually and each time times its selected  counting towards the starting DP pool.

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