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Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?

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  • John McMullen
    Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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      Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
       
      And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
       
      So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
       
      I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
       
      I can think of:
      - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
      - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
      - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
      - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
      - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
      - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
       
      What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
       
      (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
       
      John
       

       
      John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
      jhmcmullen@...
    • Cameron Mount
      The first character that comes to mind is Green Arrow, who seems to me to be the quintessential gimmick. After that, I think I d go with Dan Dreiberg/Nite Owl
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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        The first character that comes to mind is Green Arrow, who seems to me to be the quintessential gimmick. After that, I think I'd go with Dan Dreiberg/Nite Owl II from The Watchmen.



        On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:49 AM, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
         

        Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
         
        And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
         
        So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
         
        I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
         
        I can think of:
        - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
        - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
        - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
        - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
        - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
        - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
         
        What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
         
        (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
         
        John
         

         
        John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
        jhmcmullen@...


      • Seamus
        By definition, the Green Lantern s ring renovates your body when you join the Corps, making you Transformed. You may lose the powers of the ring when you lose
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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          By definition, the Green Lantern's ring renovates your body when you join the Corps, making you Transformed. You may lose the powers of the ring when you lose the ring, but your body remains reconfigured. It's debatable, but that's where I fall on that one.

          That being said, my favorite Gimmick hero is probably either Batman (for whom the Gimmick origin was essentially created) or Hawkeye (who saved the day in the first comic I ever owned, Avengers Annual #16, by cheating no less).

          --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
          >  
          > And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
          >  
          > So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
          >  
          > I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
          >  
          > I can think of:
          > - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
          > - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
          > - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
          > - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
          > - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
          > - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
          >  
          > What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
          >  
          > (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
          >  
          > John
          >  
          >
          >
          > John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
          > jhmcmullen@...
          >
        • Soylent Green
          One of my many characters Arcane Jane is sort of like a Indy/Lara Croft-ish type character. Each of her powers is an Warehouse 13 style artefact, including Dr
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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            One of my many characters Arcane Jane is sort of like a Indy/Lara Croft-ish type character. Each of her powers is an Warehouse 13 style artefact, including "Dr Watson's Gloves" which gives her super strength (yeah.. it makes no sense at all) and sort of Mayan belt allows her to fly. She's actually a pregen I played at a con (the name and description of artefacts is my own) but I've played her a few time since.

            On one inglorious occasion, while repelling an alien invasion she was struck by a ray that turned her into a poodle. The unfortunate side effect of that (as is being turned in a poodle wasn't bad enough) all her artefacts sort of slipped off  leaving her powerless. I don't think the GM had considered that angle had I not raised the issue, but that's how I saw it (powers linked to her artefacts was one of her challenges).  We lost that fight and the other character ended up having to marry the alien overlord.

            It was one of our sillier game sessions.


            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
            From: jhmcmullen@...
            Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 07:49:33 -0700
            Subject: [icons-rpg] Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?

             

            Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
             
            And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
             
            So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
             
            I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
             
            I can think of:
            - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
            - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
            - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
            - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
            - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
            - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
             
            What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
             
            (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
             
            John
             

             
            John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
            jhmcmullen@...

          • John McMullen
            I did not know that about the Green Lantern Corps (have not followed it at all for decades).   But if it merely renovates and restores your body (and what
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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              I did not know that about the Green Lantern Corps (have not followed it at all for decades).
               
              But if it merely renovates and restores your body (and what happens when an amputee becomes a Green Lantern) I'd probably say that the transformation is a happy side effect of the gimmick. I mean, Kent and Inza Nelson were also restored to their youths but I would still consider them primarily Gimmick characters.
               
               
               
              Two things: First, obviously, your opinion differs and that's totally okay. Second, the origins are broad brushes and clearly some characters are a combination of origins.. You could call Etrigan the Demon a transformed character (Jason Blood was bound with this demon, see...) or a Birthright character (Etrigan is royalty in Hell) or an Unearthly character (well, he is extraplanar). So to a certain extent it's what we pick. I think of Batman as a Trained character but you're right, the idea of a Gimmick character really did come from him, and so he could be considered a Gimmick character.
               
              Superman could be considered Unearthly or Birthright; a mutant who needs a focus of some kind might be a Birthright character or a Gimmick character. So there is certainly flexibility, and if one aspect of the origin (say, the Gimmick) is taken away, the character is much reduced...but not necessarily powerless.
               
              So my proposition is that if the character's item is taken away, the character is largely reduced: that's a gimmick item. Obviously, anyone can have a device of some kind: In the 1960s, Superman stunted his cape often enough that I think it was an Aspect ("Kryptonian costume").  (If the device only works for the character and they can summon it, well, being taken away is kind of the device limitation, so if it doesn't apply the gadget isn't what I'm calling a device.)
               
               
               
              Thinking about the magic word as a gimmick--in this case, I think it's like a gimmick because the Thunderbolt is a separate entity. If he changed into the thunderbolt (as Billy Batson changes into Captain Marvel), I'd probably call it transformation. 
               
              John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
              jhmcmullen@...

              From: Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
              To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:05 AM
              Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?

              By definition, the Green Lantern's ring renovates your body when you join the Corps, making you Transformed. You may lose the powers of the ring when you lose the ring, but your body remains reconfigured. It's debatable, but that's where I fall on that one.

              That being said, my favorite Gimmick hero is probably either Batman (for whom the Gimmick origin was essentially created) or Hawkeye (who saved the day in the first comic I ever owned, Avengers Annual #16, by cheating no less).

              --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
              >
              > Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
              >  
              > And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
              >  
              > So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
              >  
              > I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
              >  
              > I can think of:
              > - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
              > - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
              > - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
              > - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
              > - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
              > - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
              >  
              > What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
              >  
              > (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
              >  
              > John
              >  
              >
              >
              > John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
              > jhmcmullen@...
              >




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            • Seamus
              I dig ya. A lot of it really IS dependent on personal interpretations of the character in question. I call Batman a Gimmick because he always tries to have the
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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                I dig ya. A lot of it really IS dependent on personal interpretations of the character in question.

                I call Batman a Gimmick because he always tries to have the right gadget for the job and he is an inventor. Trained also works for him because he has superior martial arts training on top of all his gear.

                As far as the Green Lantern Corps re-jiggering your anatomy, it's mentioned in the movie. I think it comes up elsewhere, but I'm unsure of that. Besides, Hal Jordan has been through so much over the years that he's barely even human any more by certain accounts.

                I guess when it comes down to working out a character's origin the important thing is to figure out what the overriding cause is, which is totally a matter of opinion at times. :)

                --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                >
                > I did not know that about the Green Lantern Corps (have not followed it at all for decades).
                >  
                > But if it merely renovates and restores your body (and what happens when an amputee becomes a Green Lantern) I'd probably say that the transformation is a happy side effect of the gimmick. I mean, Kent and Inza Nelson were also restored to their youths but I would still consider them primarily Gimmick characters.
                >  
                >  
                >  
                > Two things: First, obviously, your opinion differs and that's totally okay. Second, the origins are broad brushes and clearly some characters are a combination of origins.. You could call Etrigan the Demon a transformed character (Jason Blood was bound with this demon, see...) or a Birthright character (Etrigan is royalty in Hell) or an Unearthly character (well, he is extraplanar). So to a certain extent it's what we pick. I think of Batman as a Trained character but you're right, the idea of a Gimmick character really did come from him, and so he could be considered a Gimmick character.
                >  
                > Superman could be considered Unearthly or Birthright; a mutant who needs a focus of some kind might be a Birthright character or a Gimmick character. So there is certainly flexibility, and if one aspect of the origin (say, the Gimmick) is taken away, the character is much reduced...but not necessarily powerless.
                >  
                > So my proposition is that if the character's item is taken away, the character is largely reduced: that's a gimmick item. Obviously, anyone can have a device of some kind: In the 1960s, Superman stunted his cape often enough that I think it was an Aspect ("Kryptonian costume").  (If the device only works for the character and they can summon it, well, being taken away is kind of the device limitation, so if it doesn't apply the gadget isn't what I'm calling a device.)
                >  
                >  
                >  
                > Thinking about the magic word as a gimmick--in this case, I think it's like a gimmick because the Thunderbolt is a separate entity. If he changed into the thunderbolt (as Billy Batson changes into Captain Marvel), I'd probably call it transformation. 
                >  
                > John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
                > jhmcmullen@...
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                > To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:05 AM
                > Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?
                >
                > By definition, the Green Lantern's ring renovates your body when you join the Corps, making you Transformed. You may lose the powers of the ring when you lose the ring, but your body remains reconfigured. It's debatable, but that's where I fall on that one.
                >
                > That being said, my favorite Gimmick hero is probably either Batman (for whom the Gimmick origin was essentially created) or Hawkeye (who saved the day in the first comic I ever owned, Avengers Annual #16, by cheating no less).
                >
                > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
                > >  
                > > And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
                > >  
                > > So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
                > >  
                > > I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
                > >  
                > > I can think of:
                > > - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
                > > - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
                > > - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
                > > - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
                > > - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
                > > - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
                > >  
                > > What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
                > >  
                > > (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
                > >  
                > > John
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > > John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
                > > jhmcmullen@
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • jaerdaph
                ... For me, the quintessential gimmicks are Batman and Green Arrow. Hmmm. Stealing a page from Mongoose Publishing: Quintessential Gimmick, Quintessential
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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                  --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)

                  For me, the quintessential gimmicks are Batman and Green Arrow.

                  Hmmm. Stealing a page from Mongoose Publishing: Quintessential Gimmick, Quintessential Transformed, Quintessential Artificial etc...

                  jaerdaph
                • John McMullen
                  Well, really, Origins are covered in one table in the main rulebook, about a paragraph each, and part of that is describing the mechanical effects of the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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                    Well, really, Origins are covered in one table in the main rulebook, about a paragraph each, and part of that is describing the mechanical effects of the origin on character creation.
                     
                    A couple of pages on the origin, including examples of interesting ways you can apply the origin when you're faced with a random character might help. (Or I'm over thinking, it being a game where it's the work of a few minutes to roll up a new character or--and I know this is heresy to some people--change the origin on the character folio.)
                     
                    I don't remember anything on origins in Villainomicon. (It might be there, but I don't remember it.)
                     
                    Not really enough to make a book, though, is it?
                     
                    Though part of me wants to see a single example character and see how it is reinterpreted and what Aspects are created for each kind of origin. Hmmm.
                     
                    Here, if you're interested: a character created using the Inkwell random superhero creator, origin stripped out:
                     
                    Prowess: 4
                    Coordination: 5
                    Strength: 5
                    Intellect: 3
                    Awareness: 5
                    Wisdom: 5
                     
                    3 Specialties
                     
                    Powers:
                    Precognition: 7
                    Immunity (2 slots): 2
                    Phasing: 2
                     
                    You can still apply the swap two attributes, you get to apply the changes required for the origin, and I don't care if someone duplicates origins. How would you finish the character with the origin you choose?
                     
                    John

                     
                    John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
                    jhmcmullen@...

                    From: jaerdaph <jjbardales@...>
                    To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:13 PM
                    Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?

                    --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)

                    For me, the quintessential gimmicks are Batman and Green Arrow.

                    Hmmm. Stealing a page from Mongoose Publishing: Quintessential Gimmick, Quintessential Transformed, Quintessential Artificial etc...

                    jaerdaph




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                  • Seamus
                    I might go with Transformed. I would call him (or her) Apparition and say that the powers came as the result of some accident in a matter/anti-matter
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 29, 2012
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                      I might go with Transformed. I would call him (or her) Apparition and say that the powers came as the result of some accident in a matter/anti-matter experiment. The precognitive power can come from being able to interact with the universe on a subatomic level and sense the directions that energy flows (or some other BS like that).
                      Aspects might be: The All-Seeing Ghost, "Let's feel this out", etc.
                      Challenges could be: Shadow of His/Her Former Self, Just Wants To Be Solid Again, or whatever.

                      --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, really, Origins are covered in one table in the main rulebook, about a paragraph each, and part of that is describing the mechanical effects of the origin on character creation.
                      >  
                      > A couple of pages on the origin, including examples of interesting ways you can apply the origin when you're faced with a random character might help. (Or I'm over thinking, it being a game where it's the work of a few minutes to roll up a new character or--and I know this is heresy to some people--change the origin on the character folio.)
                      >  
                      > I don't remember anything on origins in Villainomicon. (It might be there, but I don't remember it.)
                      >  
                      > Not really enough to make a book, though, is it?
                      >  
                      > Though part of me wants to see a single example character and see how it is reinterpreted and what Aspects are created for each kind of origin. Hmmm.
                      >  
                      > Here, if you're interested: a character created using the Inkwell random superhero creator, origin stripped out:
                      >  
                      > Prowess: 4
                      > Coordination: 5
                      > Strength: 5
                      > Intellect: 3
                      > Awareness: 5
                      > Wisdom: 5
                      >  
                      > 3 Specialties
                      >  
                      > Powers:
                      > Precognition: 7
                      > Immunity (2 slots): 2
                      > Phasing: 2
                      >  
                      > You can still apply the swap two attributes, you get to apply the changes required for the origin, and I don't care if someone duplicates origins. How would you finish the character with the origin you choose?
                      >  
                      > John
                      >
                      >
                      > John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
                      > jhmcmullen@...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: jaerdaph <jjbardales@...>
                      > To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:13 PM
                      > Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?
                      >
                      > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
                      >
                      > For me, the quintessential gimmicks are Batman and Green Arrow.
                      >
                      > Hmmm. Stealing a page from Mongoose Publishing: Quintessential Gimmick, Quintessential Transformed, Quintessential Artificial etc...
                      >
                      > jaerdaph
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Colin T
                      Hmm could go gimmick to boost intelligence by 1 and have him clad in a 1930 s style suit with a trenchcoat and a fedora with his powers granted by a pocket
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 30, 2012
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                        Hmm could go gimmick to boost intelligence by 1 and have him clad in a 1930's style suit with a trenchcoat and a fedora with his "powers" granted by a pocket watch he carries that allows him to peek into the near future and grants him resistance to mental powers (Immunity/specifically telepathy or mind control as his foresight makes it difficult for such powers to work on him) and the side effect that it leaves him somewhat out of tune with the present time (Phasing), might be worth throwing in a few aspects where he's actually from the 1930's and stuck in the modern age (Timelost) and whilst not racially backward he has old fashioned mannerisms (Chivalrous and Gallant towards the ladies).

                        Naming him maybe call him Mr Thirty or Nicholas Timeshadow something maybe old fashioned but not corny.

                        For skills go Criminology, Martial Arts and History possibly instead a skill in maintaining pocket watches and other time pieces, hmm perhaps another aspect with a somewhat obsession with time pieces to highlight his need to be "on time" because of his precognitive abilities perhaps?


                        Here, if you're interested: a character created using the Inkwell random superhero creator, origin stripped out:

                        Prowess: 4
                        Coordination: 5
                        Strength: 5
                        Intellect: 3
                        Awareness: 5
                        Wisdom: 5

                        3 Specialties

                        Powers:
                        Precognition: 7
                        Immunity (2 slots): 2
                        Phasing: 2

                        You can still apply the swap two attributes, you get to apply the changes required for the origin, and I don't care if someone duplicates origins. How would you finish the character with the origin you choose?

                        John
                      • Seamus
                        You could also take the angle from the online game that didn t quite get off the ground. The Gimmick s gear could be a device from the future that has a
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 30, 2012
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                          You could also take the angle from the online game that didn't quite get off the ground. The Gimmick's gear could be a device from the future that has a historical archive that allows Precognition. You could even put some kind of limit on it that it doesn't work after a certain date (if you travel forward in time to the objects 'present' or afterward).

                          --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Colin T" <colinfit20@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hmm could go gimmick to boost intelligence by 1 and have him clad in a 1930's style suit with a trenchcoat and a fedora with his "powers" granted by a pocket watch he carries that allows him to peek into the near future and grants him resistance to mental powers (Immunity/specifically telepathy or mind control as his foresight makes it difficult for such powers to work on him) and the side effect that it leaves him somewhat out of tune with the present time (Phasing), might be worth throwing in a few aspects where he's actually from the 1930's and stuck in the modern age (Timelost) and whilst not racially backward he has old fashioned mannerisms (Chivalrous and Gallant towards the ladies).
                          >
                          > Naming him maybe call him Mr Thirty or Nicholas Timeshadow something maybe old fashioned but not corny.
                          >
                          > For skills go Criminology, Martial Arts and History possibly instead a skill in maintaining pocket watches and other time pieces, hmm perhaps another aspect with a somewhat obsession with time pieces to highlight his need to be "on time" because of his precognitive abilities perhaps?
                          >
                          >
                          > Here, if you're interested: a character created using the Inkwell random superhero creator, origin stripped out:
                          >
                          > Prowess: 4
                          > Coordination: 5
                          > Strength: 5
                          > Intellect: 3
                          > Awareness: 5
                          > Wisdom: 5
                          >
                          > 3 Specialties
                          >
                          > Powers:
                          > Precognition: 7
                          > Immunity (2 slots): 2
                          > Phasing: 2
                          >
                          > You can still apply the swap two attributes, you get to apply the changes required for the origin, and I don't care if someone duplicates origins. How would you finish the character with the origin you choose?
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                        • John McMullen
                          Great minds think alike! (And sometimes I come along with them!)   So I thought I would try it, as well:   For a trained origin:  Danse Macabre (Daniel
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 31, 2012
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                            Great minds think alike! (And sometimes I come along with them!)
                             
                            So I thought I would try it, as well:
                             
                            For a trained origin:
                             
                            Danse Macabre (Daniel Micawber) is a Temporal Prevention agent sent back from a possible future. His job is to prevent certain awful things from happening but ensure that other things do happen. He knows that there is an Opposite Number. He has no powers--he's from a time when superpowers were outlawed--but he's been highly trained for his position. Trained allows for an extra 3 specialties, giving him 6 slots in total. I'd keep the precognition power (a powerful remembering device and "psychohistory" device that can forecast what various changes will do; as a byproduct, it's a great home computer and media center, and it looks like his cell phone, though he can remove the actual thinking part from the cell phone casing). He also has the "portable door" which allows him access to some areas he's not supposed to go (Phasing 2).
                             
                            For specialties, I'd go with History: Our Current Events, Stealth, Area (Our Time), Weapons(Guns), Weapons(Thrown), Medical, Military.
                             
                            For Aspects:
                            Qualities Highly and  broadly trained agent; Access to future techniques; Knows some secrets about future
                             
                            Challenges The more you act on precog, the worse it gets; Not told everything; Strange gaps in his education
                             
                            For a Transformed origin:
                             
                            A Transformed origin provides +2 to any power or attribute, so up Phasing by 2 to Phasing 4. Immunity is to Time-based powers (so she doesn't show up in other people's precog or postcog, too)
                             
                            Spirit Walk
                            January Branson wasn't always going to be a farm girl: she had plans to get out of this North Dakota town and get to the big city...maybe Lincoln. Or Pittsburgh. Not that she didn't think she could make it in New York or LA, but who needed the housing prices there? She was going to finish high school, and go to medical school--
                             
                            And then the alien arrived: with an explosion and a crater in the middle of town, near the high school. Kids from the 4-H club scattered, started rescue efforts. January worked her way around to the far side of the crater, calling to find people to help, looking for the unconscious.
                             
                            "Help meeee...." When January turned around, there was a golden-skinned man with yellow eyes and painted on hair. He was hurt--but he looked mostly human, so January went to look at him. She tried to call for the paramedics, but he stopped her. "No time. They're...after..." And he fell unconscious.
                             
                            Then the others attacked. Part of the Foreigner merged with her; alien rays hit her; and she fell into the earth. She can be ten minutes in the future, she can make herself unstable, and time-based attacks don't affect her (the alien rays work by phasing time in your body).
                             
                            Specialties: Medicine, Animals (she's helped on the farm her whole life), Martial Arts
                             
                            Aspects: Qualities Out to do good; Farm girl; It's just a little ole fill-in-the-blank; Can live ten mnutes in the future
                             
                            Challenges: Hunted by Foreigners; Not quite out of High School; Doesn't know anybody useful
                             
                             

                             
                            John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
                            jhmcmullen@...

                            From: Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:45 PM
                            Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Gimmick heroes--what do you like? What have you done?

                            You could also take the angle from the online game that didn't quite get off the ground. The Gimmick's gear could be a device from the future that has a historical archive that allows Precognition. You could even put some kind of limit on it that it doesn't work after a certain date (if you travel forward in time to the objects 'present' or afterward).

                            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Colin T" <colinfit20@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hmm could go gimmick to boost intelligence by 1 and have him clad in a 1930's style suit with a trenchcoat and a fedora with his "powers" granted by a pocket watch he carries that allows him to peek into the near future and grants him resistance to mental powers (Immunity/specifically telepathy or mind control as his foresight makes it difficult for such powers to work on him) and the side effect that it leaves him somewhat out of tune with the present time (Phasing), might be worth throwing in a few aspects where he's actually from the 1930's and stuck in the modern age (Timelost) and whilst not racially backward he has old fashioned mannerisms (Chivalrous and Gallant towards the ladies).
                            >
                            > Naming him maybe call him Mr Thirty or Nicholas Timeshadow something maybe old fashioned but not corny.
                            >
                            > For skills go Criminology, Martial Arts and History possibly instead a skill in maintaining pocket watches and other time pieces, hmm perhaps another aspect with a somewhat obsession with time pieces to highlight his need to be "on time" because of his precognitive abilities perhaps?
                            >
                            >
                            > Here, if you're interested: a character created using the Inkwell random superhero creator, origin stripped out:

                            > Prowess: 4
                            > Coordination: 5
                            > Strength: 5
                            > Intellect: 3
                            > Awareness: 5
                            > Wisdom: 5

                            > 3 Specialties

                            > Powers:
                            > Precognition: 7
                            > Immunity (2 slots): 2
                            > Phasing: 2

                            > You can still apply the swap two attributes, you get to apply the changes required for the origin, and I don't care if someone duplicates origins. How would you finish the character with the origin you choose?

                            > John
                            >




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                          • Michael Mendoza
                            Versatility of powers is what makes a Gimmick hero especially appealing to me. Gadgeteers are fun because they can whip up impromptu devices to address the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 2, 2012
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                              Versatility of powers is what makes a Gimmick hero especially appealing to me.

                              Gadgeteers are fun because they can whip up impromptu devices to address the crisis du jour (pending GM approval and the expenditure of Determination for a power stunt, of course).

                              Also, you could adopt a "Ultra-tech Entrepreneur" quality and play through subplots in which you parlay your know-how into building a  business. Enjoy the comforts, access to the influential, and other perks of being part of the 1%, but watch out for corporate takeover attempts and intellectual property theft!

                              If your character acquired a gimmick rather than build it, you can play up your character's efforts to fully understand and unlock the gimmick's full capabilities. Think of the super suit in the old "Greatest American Hero" TV show, in which the main character fumbled about learning how to build his suit because he lost the manual. Spend a Determination point, and your character figures out how to unlock a hitherto-unknown power of the gimmick.

                              This background can also allow you to contribute to the game world by exploring exactly who/what it was that built your character's gimmick.


                              On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:49 AM, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                               

                              Perhaps as a result of my childhood reading habits (mostly DC Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz characters), I have a tendency to dismiss Gimmick characters. My brain automatically falls into the well-worn rut of "Oh, he made or stole the SuperHyperPlasmaGravityCannon(tm) from the inventor" or "She found the Amulet of Ynialliv" which leads to "Whoop-de-doo."
                               
                              And yet, Iron Man is a Gimmick hero. Green Lantern is a Gimmick hero. Batman is arguably a Gimmick hero (though probably he fits better in the Trained origin). The current Blue Beetle is definitely a Gimmick hero (probably more so than a Transformed one, anyway). Doctors Strange and Fate are arguably Gimmick heroes (sure, each knows some magic on his own, but where would they be without the Eye of Agamotto or the Helm of Nabu).  I'd count Doc Ock as Transformed rather than a Gimmick, because the tentacles can't be easily removed.
                               
                              So I think my prejudice against Gimmick heroes is unfounded. Still, having said all of that, the origin does not excite creative juices in me.
                               
                              I'm hoping more examples and ideas will help correct this tragic flaw in my character.
                               
                              I can think of:
                              - Your basic Captain Cold with his cold gun
                              - Eclipso has the enchanted gem (though maybe this one's better represented as a Transformed hero; it just happens to a number of people)
                              - Armor, either Iron Man, Steel, Blue Beetle...I can't think of a mystic/magical example, but I'm sure it exists.
                              - The magical ring or amulet that grants great powers, but the powers are gone if the item is gone
                              - Arguably the Magic Word is a kind of Gimmick, so Johnny Thunder would be a Gimmick hero
                              - Your alien or magical symbiont, so Venom or Carnage
                               
                              What are some interesting (even if the type is already mentioned) aspects of the character?
                               
                              (Publishers: a brief book outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each origin type would be appropriate. Just sayin'.)
                               
                              John
                               

                               
                              John McMullen (Searching for a .sig)
                              jhmcmullen@...




                              --
                              Michael Mendoza
                              mmdozer@...
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