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Re: Touch-ranged mental attacks

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  • John McMullen
    May I ask why not? I haven t thought deeply about this, but it seems in keeping with the concept that you get a DP when your challenges say you can t do the
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 5, 2012
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      May I ask why not? I haven't thought deeply about this, but it seems in keeping with the concept that you get a DP when your challenges say you can't do the obvious thing.

      --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
      > I think the best way to handle this is informally offer the player an extra rank in the power or maybe an extra Specialty or two. In some instances the limitation can be represented by a Challenge but I don't that approach always works. The argument that "by the rules I could create the illusion of a security guard now to get us out us out of this pickle but I said I would only create badger related illusions so give me a DP" doesn't feel right.

      Now, I wouldn't be in favour of DP-Prostitution, where you choose 5 limitations as challenges and ride them as a source of DP. One (or sometimes two) limitations are usually enough, because you can usually encapsulate the limitation in a single phrase: it is "gun" instead of "ammo: 9 shots; device; subject to weld in vacuum; kickback and recoil".

      Informally, I'd probably houserule it to be an attack one rank higher or, if that wasn't possible, an extra Specialty or rank of Specialty somewhere.

      John
    • mama_mame
      Determination Prostituting -- I think Challenges are supposed to be tagged up by the GM for the most part. It s not like you can just tag up on those for free
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 5, 2012
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        Determination Prostituting -- I think Challenges are supposed to be tagged up by the GM for the most part. It's not like you can just tag up on those for free Determination. It's not like doing that in the old Storyteller system for things that actually aren't drawbacks. :)

        Dan

        --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "John McMullen" <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
        >
        > May I ask why not? I haven't thought deeply about this, but it seems in keeping with the concept that you get a DP when your challenges say you can't do the obvious thing.
        >
        > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@> wrote:
        > > I think the best way to handle this is informally offer the player an extra rank in the power or maybe an extra Specialty or two. In some instances the limitation can be represented by a Challenge but I don't that approach always works. The argument that "by the rules I could create the illusion of a security guard now to get us out us out of this pickle but I said I would only create badger related illusions so give me a DP" doesn't feel right.
        >
        > Now, I wouldn't be in favour of DP-Prostitution, where you choose 5 limitations as challenges and ride them as a source of DP. One (or sometimes two) limitations are usually enough, because you can usually encapsulate the limitation in a single phrase: it is "gun" instead of "ammo: 9 shots; device; subject to weld in vacuum; kickback and recoil".
        >
        > Informally, I'd probably houserule it to be an attack one rank higher or, if that wasn't possible, an extra Specialty or rank of Specialty somewhere.
        >
        > John
        >
      • Icosahedrophilia
        My biggest weakness is that I just care too much about the poor … ;-) ... Chris Heard Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast http://drchris.me/d20 My biggest
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 5, 2012
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          "My biggest weakness is that I just care too much about the poor …" ;-)

          On Aug 5, 2012, at 5:33 PM, "mama_mame" <mama_mame@...> wrote:
           

          Determination Prostituting -- I think Challenges are supposed to be tagged up by the GM for the most part. It's not like you can just tag up on those for free Determination. It's not like doing that in the old Storyteller system for things that actually aren't drawbacks. :) 



          Chris Heard
          Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast

        • Soylent Green
          I can try, though to be honest I always find things get kind of murky when I look at Challenges and Compels too closely and I can never tell whether that s
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 6, 2012
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            I can try, though to be honest I always find things get kind of murky when I look at Challenges and Compels too closely and I can never tell whether that's because my understanding of it is still lacking or because the concept itself is still evolving and not fully formed yet.

            My key concern in this specific instance that once I've defined my power with a limitation, like "can only create badger related illusions" or "mental blast but close range only", there is no longer an element of choice involved. Legally, from a rules point of view the character might be capable of creating any kind of illusion but in terms of game narrative he simply does not have that ability.

            As such, when the playing the character, the last thing I want to do is  exploring things my character can't do just to fish for DPs. It just seems like the wrong mindset. As such in this case the suggestion of raising the limited power's rank might just be cleaner, though without further analysis I sooner deal with this informally between player and GM.

            Now if it were just were a psychological hang up, the character potentially can create other kinds of illusions but is deeply reluctant to do so due to a code, a phobia or some other limitation then Compelling that Challenge becomes interesting as it forces character to make meaningful choice.

            And in the end while Challenges and Compels cover a whole lot of ground I guess mechanically they work best when examine a character personal flaws and force the character to make a choice between the logical, smart option or the more passionate and ill judged one. Many roleplayers have of course have long been aware that it's the passionate and ill judged choices that make the game fun, but having this acknowledged and rewarded mechanically helps bridge with culture gap with those roleplayers used to play more with their heads than their hearts.





            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
            From: jhmcmullen@...
            Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 18:26:29 +0000
            Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Touch-ranged mental attacks

             
            May I ask why not? I haven't thought deeply about this, but it seems in keeping with the concept that you get a DP when your challenges say you can't do the obvious thing.

            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
            > I think the best way to handle this is informally offer the player an extra rank in the power or maybe an extra Specialty or two. In some instances the limitation can be represented by a Challenge but I don't that approach always works. The argument that "by the rules I could create the illusion of a security guard now to get us out us out of this pickle but I said I would only create badger related illusions so give me a DP" doesn't feel right.

            Now, I wouldn't be in favour of DP-Prostitution, where you choose 5 limitations as challenges and ride them as a source of DP. One (or sometimes two) limitations are usually enough, because you can usually encapsulate the limitation in a single phrase: it is "gun" instead of "ammo: 9 shots; device; subject to weld in vacuum; kickback and recoil".

            Informally, I'd probably houserule it to be an attack one rank higher or, if that wasn't possible, an extra Specialty or rank of Specialty somewhere.

            John


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