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Re: Alas, no ICONS Team-Up Yet

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  • B.C. Wendel
    I kinda feel like we were forced into pre-ordering it back in March, and now five months later there is no release in sight. I m pretty sure we ll get it
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 1 4:29 PM
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      I kinda feel like we were forced into pre-ordering it back in March, and now five months later there is no release in sight. I'm pretty sure we'll get it someday, but it seems like in the RPG industry there is always somebody with a personal problem or family sickness that always makes stuff come out late - except for Wizards of the Coast, they seem to be more timely/professional that the rest.

      But hey, the DC Adventures 4th book is way late from whenever it was due out, and the new Marvel RPG is already way behind their announced schedule, with only one product in stores - so it is what it is.

      --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, John McMullen <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
      >
      > I feel the sorrow, for I am affected, too. And the only way it can be dealt with is to preorder (so Gareth has money to work with) and then smile whenever a release date is announced and say, "It would be marvelous to have it on that date." Make no plans, book no party hall, set aside the intention for an adventure.
      >
      > Make no mistake: we like Adamant, we like ICONS, we like Gareth--we're here, after all. But stuff comes out when it comes out, and Adamant does not have the redundancy of staff to deal with these products and external emergencies.
      >
      > It's like that for any one-man shop.
      >
      > John, a one-man shop
      >
    • Tim K.
      ... It has nothing to do with professionalism. It has everything to do with the fact that when you have few employees, these kinds of crisis impact you more
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 1 4:44 PM
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        On 8/1/2012 6:29 PM, B.C. Wendel wrote:
        > I kinda feel like we were forced into pre-ordering it back in March, and now five months later there is no release in sight. I'm pretty sure we'll get it someday, but it seems like in the RPG industry there is always somebody with a personal problem or family sickness that always makes stuff come out late - except for Wizards of the Coast, they seem to be more timely/professional that the rest.
        >
        > But hey, the DC Adventures 4th book is way late from whenever it was due out, and the new Marvel RPG is already way behind their announced schedule, with only one product in stores - so it is what it is.
        >

        It has nothing to do with professionalism. It has everything to do with
        the fact that when you have few employees, these kinds of crisis impact
        you more directly.

        It isn't that WOTC doesn't push things back too---just that they're
        less likely to tell you why.


        I'm a small press publisher, and I know what causes my delays personally.

        Plus Hasbro/WOTC can most likely just fire the person who is their
        freelancer and hand his or her work off to another, likely citing some
        part of their contract to do so and making sure that they're real sorry
        about how the person's family is ill, but it has NOTHING to do with
        their job loss.


        Personally, I'll take a game a little late, and have the person's whose
        work I respect in my hands and know that I've treated them humanly as
        people.

        Heck, this is a superhero came, hero up, and think of what Peter Parker
        or Superman would do in this situation without the powers, just with
        their hearts.
      • Icosahedrophilia
        ... Not to start an argument, but … forced how? Since there was certainly no physical compulsion, the only pressure would have been the time window. If
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 1 4:54 PM
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          On Aug 1, 2012, at 4:29 PM, "B.C. Wendel" <BCKixAzz@...> wrote:
           

          I kinda feel like we were forced into pre-ordering it back in March, and now five months later there is no release in sight. I'm pretty sure we'll get it someday, but it seems like in the RPG industry there is always somebody with a personal problem or family sickness that always makes stuff come out late - except for Wizards of the Coast, they seem to be more timely/professional that the rest.

          Not to start an argument, but … "forced" how? Since there was certainly no physical compulsion, the only "pressure" would have been the time window. If that's what you mean, then Adamant might score some PR points in the future by keeping pre-orders open until a definite release date is available.

          Comparing Adamant to Wizards of the Coast isn't fair. Wizards has a big staff and the corporate resources of Hasbro behind them, and a product schedule that runs 18 months or so in advance of publication dates—and they, too, cancel, delay, and reschedule products from time to time. The D&D Virtual Tabletop comes to mind; it was touted in the run-up to 4e, advertised in the 4e core rulebooks, and then … it never got out of beta and has now officially been shelved. At least three of their 2012 products were delayed by significant margins. My own current project (a scholarly book, unrelated to gaming) is already ten months past due and not looking good. Stuff happens.

          Somewhere deep in my amygdala, I want ICONS TEAM-UP yesterday. Fortunately, I also have a cerebrum, so my better cognitive angel wants ICONS TEAM-UP when the product is done, and done well. And as a compassionate human being, I mostly want for Gareth's family to get through their medical issues with minimal suffering, inconvenience, and expense.

          Chris Heard
          Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
          ><>
        • B.C. Wendel
          ... I didn t realize I was being inhuman. Or an Inhuman. Obviously I don t wish any ill health on anyone - I just want to know why we get told one thing, then
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 1 8:01 PM
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            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Tim K." <silverlion@...> wrote:
            >

            > Personally, I'll take a game a little late, and have the person's whose
            > work I respect in my hands and know that I've treated them humanly as
            > people.

            I didn't realize I was being inhuman. Or an Inhuman.

            Obviously I don't wish any ill health on anyone - I just want to know why we get told one thing, then something else, then something else. We were told the PDF was coming out in a couple weeks back in April - what has taken it so long? I pre-ordered the book because I want to support this game and company - but after a while, these delays and endless excuses get old. Has the family sickness caused the 4 months of delays?

            Some people would just give up on this game altogether - I'm not going to do that, but these delays can't be good for business, and I want them to be as successful as they can be.
          • Jack
            No, you are being reasonable. I m tired of delay after delay. I wont preorder from them again.
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 1 8:22 PM
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              No, you are being reasonable. I'm tired of delay after delay. I wont preorder from them again.

              --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "B.C. Wendel" <BCKixAzz@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Tim K." <silverlion@> wrote:
              > >
              >
              > > Personally, I'll take a game a little late, and have the person's whose
              > > work I respect in my hands and know that I've treated them humanly as
              > > people.
              >
              > I didn't realize I was being inhuman. Or an Inhuman.
              >
              > Obviously I don't wish any ill health on anyone - I just want to know why we get told one thing, then something else, then something else. We were told the PDF was coming out in a couple weeks back in April - what has taken it so long? I pre-ordered the book because I want to support this game and company - but after a while, these delays and endless excuses get old. Has the family sickness caused the 4 months of delays?
              >
              > Some people would just give up on this game altogether - I'm not going to do that, but these delays can't be good for business, and I want them to be as successful as they can be.
              >
            • Tim K.
              ... I did not mean to imply you were inhuman, forgive me. I meant that I was treating them as human beings, as people with lives, and all the issues it brings,
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 1 8:56 PM
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                > I didn't realize I was being inhuman. Or an Inhuman.
                >
                > Obviously I don't wish any ill health on anyone - I just want to know why we get told one thing, then something else, then something else. We were told the PDF was coming out in a couple weeks back in April - what has taken it so long? I pre-ordered the book because I want to support this game and company - but after a while, these delays and endless excuses get old. Has the family sickness caused the 4 months of delays?
                >
                > Some people would just give up on this game altogether - I'm not going to do that, but these delays can't be good for business, and I want them to be as successful as they can be.
                >
                >

                I did not mean to imply you were inhuman, forgive me. I meant that I was
                treating them as human beings, as people with lives, and all the issues
                it brings, which are not controllable.

                I know of one game designer who recently lost his son, and that's a
                tragedy. I know such a thing would impact me greatly if I had children.

                I don't know what's going on with GMS and his fates or fortunes beyond
                what he has said here. Yet I'd like to call for a reasonable approach to
                the situation.


                Since I stand by my words here is something I'd like to encourage all
                game purchasers:


                "Please don't treat game designers like Pez dispensers" -Tim Kirk,
                Silverlion Studios.
              • B.C. Wendel
                ... That s cool - I was just kidding. I realize what I wrote came off as a little jerky - and I wish the best of luck to GMS and his family - but then again I
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 1 9:44 PM
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                  --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Tim K." <silverlion@...> wrote:
                  >

                  > I did not mean to imply you were inhuman, forgive me. I meant that I was
                  > treating them as human beings, as people with lives, and all the issues
                  > it brings, which are not controllable.
                  >

                  That's cool - I was just kidding. I realize what I wrote came off as a little jerky - and I wish the best of luck to GMS and his family - but then again I looked through this place and found all this, and realized my frustration is understandable.

                  SEP 14 2011 - Still on schedule for November, yes.

                  DEC 09 2011 -The PDF will be available (and sent to pre-order customers and the printer)before Christmas.

                  MAR 12 2012 - By the end of March.

                  APR 20 2012 - I'm expecting to deliver PDFs in no more than two weeks

                  MAY 22 2012 - It will be out in June.

                  JUL 17 2012 - Yes, TEAM-UP appeared in a list of projects that I'll have done by the end of August.However, it will be the first of them that will be completed -- in the next week or so. You won't have to wait until August.

                  I mean, come on, man! Get it together! :) I hope you guys enjoyed this trip down memory lane.
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