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[Steve Kenson or Gareth Skarka] Clarification on Random CharGen Bonus Powers

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  • jaerdaph
    An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question If you choose a bonus power during random
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 5, 2012
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      An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question

      If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?

      We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:

      From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
      Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.

      From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
      Bonus Powers
      Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).

      Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)

      Best,
      jaerdaph
    • Seamus
      I ve always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn t matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 5, 2012
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        I've always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn't matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean different things to different powers, it kind of blurs the definitions of how those powers stack against each other.

        --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "jaerdaph" <jjbardales@...> wrote:
        >
        > An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question
        >
        > If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?
        >
        > We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:
        >
        > From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
        > Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.
        >
        > From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
        > Bonus Powers
        > Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).
        >
        > Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)
        >
        > Best,
        > jaerdaph
        >
      • jaerdaph
        Thinking about this more, I think some of my confusion comes from certain powers like Elemental Control, one of the first powers I became familiar with when I
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 6, 2012
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          Thinking about this more, I think some of my confusion comes from certain powers like Elemental Control, one of the first powers I became familiar with when I created my first ICONS character, Desert Storm . With that power, you get to chose *two* "power effects", some of which are simply other powers (Blast, Force Field or Detection specifically) that you get to take and use at your Elemental Control power level. The Elemental Control power description in the core rules then goes on to state you can take additional power effects as bonus powers, and since those power effects descriptions set a power level equal to that of your Elemental Control power level, I probably just assumed that that's how it worked across the board.

          Anyhow, it's a wee bit confusing (but certainly hasn't been game-breaking for me) and hopefully Steve or Gareth can clear it up.

          Best,
          jaerdaph
          JUST ADD HEROES
          An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
          http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com

          --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Seamus" <sotp_seamus@...> wrote:
          >
          > I've always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn't matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean different things to different powers, it kind of blurs the definitions of how those powers stack against each other.
          >
          > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "jaerdaph" <jjbardales@> wrote:
          > >
          > > An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question
          > >
          > > If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?
          > >
          > > We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:
          > >
          > > From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
          > > Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.
          > >
          > > From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
          > > Bonus Powers
          > > Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).
          > >
          > > Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)
          > >
          > > Best,
          > > jaerdaph
          > >
          >
        • Soylent Green
          Well for what it s worth a quick look through the characters in the Villainomicon would suggest that bonus powers are meant to be set to the same level as the
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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            Well for what it's worth a quick look through the characters in the Villainomicon would suggest that bonus powers are meant to be set to the same level as the parent power.  


            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
            From: jjbardales@...
            Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:42:26 +0000
            Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: [Steve Kenson or Gareth Skarka] Clarification on Random CharGen Bonus Powers

             
            Thinking about this more, I think some of my confusion comes from certain powers like Elemental Control, one of the first powers I became familiar with when I created my first ICONS character, Desert Storm . With that power, you get to chose *two* "power effects", some of which are simply other powers (Blast, Force Field or Detection specifically) that you get to take and use at your Elemental Control power level. The Elemental Control power description in the core rules then goes on to state you can take additional power effects as bonus powers, and since those power effects descriptions set a power level equal to that of your Elemental Control power level, I probably just assumed that that's how it worked across the board.

            Anyhow, it's a wee bit confusing (but certainly hasn't been game-breaking for me) and hopefully Steve or Gareth can clear it up.

            Best,
            jaerdaph
            JUST ADD HEROES
            An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
            http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com

            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Seamus" <sotp_seamus@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn't matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean different things to different powers, it kind of blurs the definitions of how those powers stack against each other.
            >
            > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "jaerdaph" <jjbardales@> wrote:
            > >
            > > An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question
            > >
            > > If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?
            > >
            > > We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:
            > >
            > > From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
            > > Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.
            > >
            > > From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
            > > Bonus Powers
            > > Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).
            > >
            > > Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)
            > >
            > > Best,
            > > jaerdaph
            > >
            >


          • prodezigner
            i hafta agree. If you re-rolled the book would tell you. I fan t find the power immediately, but I do remember it saying something to the effect of re-rolling
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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              i hafta agree. If you re-rolled the book would tell you. I fan't find the power immediately, but I do remember it saying something to the effect of re-rolling to determine the level since the level is to be considered 10.

              --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Well for what it's worth a quick look through the characters in the Villainomicon would suggest that bonus powers are meant to be set to the same level as the parent power.
              >
              > To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
              > From: jjbardales@...
              > Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:42:26 +0000
              > Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: [Steve Kenson or Gareth Skarka] Clarification on Random CharGen Bonus Powers
              >
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              > Thinking about this more, I think some of my confusion comes from certain powers like Elemental Control, one of the first powers I became familiar with when I created my first ICONS character, Desert Storm . With that power, you get to chose *two* "power effects", some of which are simply other powers (Blast, Force Field or Detection specifically) that you get to take and use at your Elemental Control power level. The Elemental Control power description in the core rules then goes on to state you can take additional power effects as bonus powers, and since those power effects descriptions set a power level equal to that of your Elemental Control power level, I probably just assumed that that's how it worked across the board.
              >
              >
              >
              > Anyhow, it's a wee bit confusing (but certainly hasn't been game-breaking for me) and hopefully Steve or Gareth can clear it up.
              >
              >
              >
              > Best,
              >
              > jaerdaph
              >
              > JUST ADD HEROES
              >
              > An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
              >
              > http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Seamus" <sotp_seamus@> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I've always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn't matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean different things to different powers, it kind of blurs the definitions of how those powers stack against each other.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "jaerdaph" <jjbardales@> wrote:
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
              >
              > > > Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
              >
              > > > Bonus Powers
              >
              > > > Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > Best,
              >
              > > > jaerdaph
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
            • prodezigner
              I remember where I saw it. It was in Steve s rollup example of Revenant. He rolled Ability Increase and chose Phasing as a bonus power, but since Ability
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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                I remember where I saw it. It was in Steve's rollup example of Revenant. He rolled Ability Increase and chose Phasing as a bonus power, but since Ability Increase doesn't have a level, he had to roll for it.

                --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "prodezigner" <bford83@...> wrote:
                >
                > i hafta agree. If you re-rolled the book would tell you. I fan't find the power immediately, but I do remember it saying something to the effect of re-rolling to determine the level since the level is to be considered 10.
                >
                > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Well for what it's worth a quick look through the characters in the Villainomicon would suggest that bonus powers are meant to be set to the same level as the parent power.
                > >
                > > To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                > > From: jjbardales@
                > > Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 03:42:26 +0000
                > > Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: [Steve Kenson or Gareth Skarka] Clarification on Random CharGen Bonus Powers
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Thinking about this more, I think some of my confusion comes from certain powers like Elemental Control, one of the first powers I became familiar with when I created my first ICONS character, Desert Storm . With that power, you get to chose *two* "power effects", some of which are simply other powers (Blast, Force Field or Detection specifically) that you get to take and use at your Elemental Control power level. The Elemental Control power description in the core rules then goes on to state you can take additional power effects as bonus powers, and since those power effects descriptions set a power level equal to that of your Elemental Control power level, I probably just assumed that that's how it worked across the board.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Anyhow, it's a wee bit confusing (but certainly hasn't been game-breaking for me) and hopefully Steve or Gareth can clear it up.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Best,
                > >
                > > jaerdaph
                > >
                > > JUST ADD HEROES
                > >
                > > An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
                > >
                > > http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Seamus" <sotp_seamus@> wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > I've always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn't matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean different things to different powers, it kind of blurs the definitions of how those powers stack against each other.
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "jaerdaph" <jjbardales@> wrote:
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
                > >
                > > > > Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
                > >
                > > > > Bonus Powers
                > >
                > > > > Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > Best,
                > >
                > > > > jaerdaph
                > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Cameron Mount
                I ve always rolled for the bonus power levels, even for the extra Elemental Control effects. I m not sure I can pinpoint why other than that everything else in
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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                  I've always rolled for the bonus power levels, even for the extra Elemental Control effects. I'm not sure I can pinpoint why other than that everything else in standard creation is random, so I just assumed that the levels for bonus powers would also be random rolls.

                  On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 22:42, jaerdaph <jjbardales@...> wrote:
                   

                  Thinking about this more, I think some of my confusion comes from certain powers like Elemental Control, one of the first powers I became familiar with when I created my first ICONS character, Desert Storm . With that power, you get to chose *two* "power effects", some of which are simply other powers (Blast, Force Field or Detection specifically) that you get to take and use at your Elemental Control power level. The Elemental Control power description in the core rules then goes on to state you can take additional power effects as bonus powers, and since those power effects descriptions set a power level equal to that of your Elemental Control power level, I probably just assumed that that's how it worked across the board.

                  Anyhow, it's a wee bit confusing (but certainly hasn't been game-breaking for me) and hopefully Steve or Gareth can clear it up.

                  Best,
                  jaerdaph
                  JUST ADD HEROES
                  An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
                  http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com

                  --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Seamus" <sotp_seamus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I've always assumed you roll the level for the bonus power. It doesn't matter a heckuva lot, really. When you consider that power levels occasionally mean different things to different powers, it kind of blurs the definitions of how those powers stack against each other.
                  >
                  > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "jaerdaph" <jjbardales@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > An interesting question came up today at RPGNet: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608840-An-ICONS-question
                  > >
                  > > If you choose a bonus power during random character generation, do you get the power at the same power level as the power that gave you access to the bonus power, or do you roll for the bonus power's power level?
                  > >
                  > > We seem to be split on how to do this because there is some evidence for both answers - some of us assumed the former because that's how it works in the character folio, but reading the actual text in the core rules might imply it's the latter:
                  > >
                  > > From ICONS core rules, p. 11-12:
                  > > Some power descriptions offer a choice of bonus powers. This means if you have that power you can select another power to fill one of your power slots without rolling. For example, if you have Elemental Control, you can choose to have a Blast of the same element as one of your other powers without having to roll on the tables to select it. You can replace a rolled power with a bonus power, if you wish.
                  > >
                  > > From ICONS core rules, p. 28:
                  > > Bonus Powers
                  > > Power descriptions refer to bonus powers; these are choices when creating a character (see character Creation, p. 11-13). You can have a bonus power replace one of your rolled powers. So, for example, if you come up with Elemental Control for your hero, you can choose to replace one of the hero's other powers with a Blast power of the same element. Bonus powers are optional, you don't have to take them, but if you choose not to do so, you can't go back and take one later. You can make use of bonus powers you chose not to take initially as power stunts later on (see Power Stunts, p. 80).
                  > >
                  > > Any official clarification would be greatly appreciated as always. :)
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > > jaerdaph
                  > >
                  >


                • Gareth-Michael Skarka
                  Popping my head in here: I ve always done it that you get the bonus power at the same level as the first, since they re thematically connected. -Gareth
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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                    Popping my head in here:

                    I've always done it that you get the bonus power at the same level as the first, since they're thematically connected.

                    -Gareth
                  • jaerdaph
                    Gareth and Steve - thanks again! It definitely makes thematic sense to get bonus powers at the same level as the parent power. Best, jaerdaph JUST ADD HEROES
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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                      Gareth and Steve - thanks again! It definitely makes thematic sense to get bonus powers at the same level as the parent power.

                      Best,
                      jaerdaph
                      JUST ADD HEROES
                      An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
                      http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com
                    • jaerdaph
                      prodezigner, I wanted to compliment you on your excellent memory of where you saw this from almost two years ago! It s been a long time since I looked at that
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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                        prodezigner, I wanted to compliment you on your excellent memory of where you saw this from almost two years ago! It's been a long time since I looked at that Revenant build:

                        http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?506020-ICONS-discussion-thread-vol-2&p=11914949#post11914949

                        Thanks everyone for your help!

                        Best,
                        jaerdaph
                        JUST ADD HEROES
                        An ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying Game Blog by Joe "jaerdaph" Bardales
                        http://justaddheroes.blogspot.com

                        --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "prodezigner" <bford83@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I remember where I saw it. It was in Steve's rollup example of Revenant. He rolled Ability Increase and chose Phasing as a bonus power, but since Ability Increase doesn't have a level, he had to roll for it.
                        >
                        > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "prodezigner" <bford83@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > i hafta agree. If you re-rolled the book would tell you. I fan't find the power immediately, but I do remember it saying something to the effect of re-rolling to determine the level since the level is to be considered 10.
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