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Re: [icons-rpg] Re: A bit of refinement (or just a plain example list)

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  • robert fv
    Fabricio - I for one like this interpretation. No, it s not really how the power is defined, but so long as the mechanical effects can be worked out in a
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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      Fabricio - I for one like this interpretation. No, it's not really how the power is defined, but so long as the mechanical effects can be worked out in a similar way, then I see it as just changing the trappings (sorry, that's a term from Savage Worlds) of the power.

      On the other hand, if the mechanical effect is going to be different, then you have a different power. In that case, I say take the new power (Vertigo) instead of blindness. We can create a space in the OP wiki for new powers and house rules. Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.

      Robert
       
      Howling in the Dark http://spookable.blogspot.com/


      From: Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...>
      To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 8:57 PM
      Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: A bit of refinement (or just a plain example list)

       
      Seamus,

      I was having trouble with a character that I rolled up with Blinding. After having some thought and reading what you guys wrote, I came to the conclusion that Blinding could hinder other senses as well, not only sight. So, I picked up balance, which is a sense usually forgotten but very important. In the standards of DC Count Vertigo, I devised she could affect people's sense of balance, making them vomit, losing feet, and other similar effects. 

      Am I too far from the scope?

      Best,

      Fabrício

      2011/8/29 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
       
      Blast can be literally anything that shoots, from Iron Man's repulsor blst to Cyclops's eye beams. I would usually look at other powers the character has, and see if I could turn any one of them into something that shoots. For example, a character with psychic powers could send out a psychic shock, or a character with super speed could do a long distance high-speed poke by pushing the air with his finger.

      It works a lot like D&D's Magic Missile, where the effect is generally the same, but the look and feel of it can be defined in any way.

      Is there a particular case you're having trouble reasoning with?


      --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Fabricio" <fabfranco@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello there,
      >
      > I'd like to know if any of you have an easy way to 'flesh out' concepts like Blast, Strike and Blinding into meaningful powers/characters. The Icons books leave much for interpretation; so much, in fact, that it's making me dizzy sometimes. I know it's supposed to be this way, but I lack references. Could anyone please tell me what you use for reference (characters who you use them, traditional name of powers, etc.) in a more precise list?
      >
      > Thanks in advance!
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Fabrício
      >

      .
       


    • Icosahedrophilia
      ... LOL. Chris Heard Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast http://drchris.me/d20
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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        On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
         Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum. 

        LOL.

        Chris Heard
        Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast

      • Cameron Mount
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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           Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum. 
          Absolutely. 
        • Seamus
          Hey. Careful who you say that around.
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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            Hey. Careful who you say that around.

            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
            > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
            >
            >
            > LOL.
            >
            > Chris Heard
            > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
            > http://drchris.me/d20
            >
          • Fabrício César Franco
            The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too narrow,
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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              The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too narrow, compared to other powers in the list. For instance, what's the use of cancelling taste in a battle? Well, thanks everybody to your kind help, as usual. 

              And I hope not to bring this into a house rule. It's more to keep it as an interpretation of the RAW. 

              Best regards,

              Fabrício

              2011/8/30 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
               

              Hey. Careful who you say that around.



              --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
              > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
              >
              >
              > LOL.
              >
              > Chris Heard
              > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
              > http://drchris.me/d20
              >





            • Fabrício César Franco
              Well, guys, let me stand corrected. After reading and re-reading the definition of the Blinding power and comparing the effect I wanted to create with
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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                Well, guys, let me stand corrected. After reading and re-reading the definition of the Blinding power and comparing the effect I wanted to create with characters from comics, I have to admit that Paralysis or Binding are more appropriate than Blinding to describe it. I'll have to think on another kind of effect for this Blinding 8 (gasp!) power. 

                Best regards,

                Fabrício

                Em 30 de agosto de 2011 22:45, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...> escreveu:
                The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too narrow, compared to other powers in the list. For instance, what's the use of cancelling taste in a battle? Well, thanks everybody to your kind help, as usual. 

                And I hope not to bring this into a house rule. It's more to keep it as an interpretation of the RAW. 

                Best regards,

                Fabrício


                2011/8/30 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                 

                Hey. Careful who you say that around.



                --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
                > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
                >
                >
                > LOL.
                >
                > Chris Heard
                > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                > http://drchris.me/d20
                >






              • Seamus
                What other powers do you have? And what s your origin (if it s not the Alien many of us already know. :))?
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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                  What other powers do you have? And what's your origin (if it's not the Alien many of us already know. :))?

                  --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well, guys, let me stand corrected. After reading and re-reading the
                  > definition of the Blinding power and comparing the effect I wanted to create
                  > with characters from comics, I have to admit that Paralysis or Binding are
                  > more appropriate than Blinding to describe it. I'll have to think on another
                  > kind of effect for this Blinding 8 (gasp!) power.
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  >
                  > Fabrício
                  >
                  > Em 30 de agosto de 2011 22:45, Fabrício César Franco
                  > <fabfranco@...>escreveu:
                  >
                  > > The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the
                  > > senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too
                  > > narrow, compared to other powers in the list. For instance, what's the use
                  > > of cancelling taste in a battle? Well, thanks everybody to your kind help,
                  > > as usual.
                  > >
                  > > And I hope not to bring this into a house rule. It's more to keep it as an
                  > > interpretation of the RAW.
                  > >
                  > > Best regards,
                  > >
                  > > Fabrício
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 2011/8/30 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                  > >
                  > >> **
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Hey. Careful who you say that around.
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@> wrote:
                  > >> >
                  > >> > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
                  > >> > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > LOL.
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Chris Heard
                  > >> > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                  > >> > http://drchris.me/d20
                  > >> >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Fabrício César Franco
                  Seamus, The rolled-up powers were, with their intensities: Mental Blast 4 Blinding 10 (bonus power: Blinding Burst) Telekinesis 4 Fabrício 2011/8/31 Seamus
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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                    Seamus,

                    The rolled-up powers were, with their intensities:

                    Mental Blast 4

                    Blinding 10 (bonus power:  Blinding Burst)

                    Telekinesis 4

                    Fabrício


                    2011/8/31 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                     

                    What other powers do you have? And what's your origin (if it's not the Alien many of us already know. :))?



                    --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well, guys, let me stand corrected. After reading and re-reading the
                    > definition of the Blinding power and comparing the effect I wanted to create
                    > with characters from comics, I have to admit that Paralysis or Binding are
                    > more appropriate than Blinding to describe it. I'll have to think on another
                    > kind of effect for this Blinding 8 (gasp!) power.
                    >
                    > Best regards,
                    >
                    > Fabrício
                    >
                    > Em 30 de agosto de 2011 22:45, Fabrício César Franco
                    > <fabfranco@...>escreveu:

                    >
                    > > The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the
                    > > senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too
                    > > narrow, compared to other powers in the list. For instance, what's the use
                    > > of cancelling taste in a battle? Well, thanks everybody to your kind help,
                    > > as usual.
                    > >
                    > > And I hope not to bring this into a house rule. It's more to keep it as an
                    > > interpretation of the RAW.
                    > >
                    > > Best regards,
                    > >
                    > > Fabrício
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > 2011/8/30 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                    > >
                    > >> **

                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Hey. Careful who you say that around.
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@> wrote:
                    > >> >
                    > >> > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
                    > >> > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > LOL.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Chris Heard
                    > >> > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                    > >> > http://drchris.me/d20
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >

                    .

                  • Seamus
                    Ok. The Blinding could be another effect of the Mental Blast. A psychic shock that shorts out the nervous system. Like a power surge.
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 30, 2011
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                      Ok. The Blinding could be another effect of the Mental Blast. A psychic shock that shorts out the nervous system. Like a power surge.

                      --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Seamus,
                      >
                      > The rolled-up powers were, with their intensities:
                      >
                      > Mental Blast 4
                      >
                      > Blinding 10 (bonus power: Blinding Burst)
                      >
                      > Telekinesis 4
                      >
                      > Fabrício
                      >
                      > 2011/8/31 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > What other powers do you have? And what's your origin (if it's not the
                      > > Alien many of us already know. :))?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Well, guys, let me stand corrected. After reading and re-reading the
                      > > > definition of the Blinding power and comparing the effect I wanted to
                      > > create
                      > > > with characters from comics, I have to admit that Paralysis or Binding
                      > > are
                      > > > more appropriate than Blinding to describe it. I'll have to think on
                      > > another
                      > > > kind of effect for this Blinding 8 (gasp!) power.
                      > > >
                      > > > Best regards,
                      > > >
                      > > > Fabrício
                      > > >
                      > > > Em 30 de agosto de 2011 22:45, Fabrício César Franco
                      > > > <fabfranco@>escreveu:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the
                      > > > > senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too
                      > > > > narrow, compared to other powers in the list. For instance, what's the
                      > > use
                      > > > > of cancelling taste in a battle? Well, thanks everybody to your kind
                      > > help,
                      > > > > as usual.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > And I hope not to bring this into a house rule. It's more to keep it as
                      > > an
                      > > > > interpretation of the RAW.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Best regards,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Fabrício
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > 2011/8/30 Seamus <sotp_seamus@>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >> **
                      > >
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Hey. Careful who you say that around.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@> wrote:
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
                      > > > >> > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > LOL.
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >> > Chris Heard
                      > > > >> > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                      > > > >> > http://drchris.me/d20
                      > > > >> >
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
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                    • Soylent Green
                      Putting on my GM hat, I find there is something that troubles me me about this character. The score 10 in Icons is really, really special. I meant to be
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                        Putting on my GM hat, I find there is something that troubles me me about this character.

                         

                        The score "10" in Icons is really, really special. I meant to be something godlike; cosmic scale awesomeness. But cosmic level blinding power in Icons isn't really that much better than your regular blinding. In purely mechanical terms the all the high score gives you is a few extra pages duration of the effect if and then only if you score a Major or better success (note - the margin of success is based on your Coordination "to hit" roll and not the level of the Blindness power) .

                         

                        High levels of Blinding also helps against targets with the specific power Resistance Blindness which, frankly, isn't something that comes up very often.

                        All in all I find it underwhelming.

                         

                        Which is not to say the Blinding is a bad power, it's actually pretty cool. It's simply not the kind of power you necessarily want to have at level 10 unless you really have a real strong concept to back it.

                         

                        So I guess as GM my first question would be to the player is "Are you sure you want to bump up Blinding to 10" (to get a 10 I am guessing the player rolled 8 -which is already pretty awesome - and then boosted it another 2 points with an Origin).

                         

                        If the player really wanted to play the god of blinding I'd try to work something out with him. Maybe offer him a new, made up power for Blindness just for him - something really worthy of a 10 - in exchange for dropping one of his other powers (I find Telekinesis. without bonus power is pretty disappointing anyway).

                         

                        Which is just a way of saying that for me the random character generation process, cool as it is, is just the starting point.

                         

                        To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                        From: fabfranco@...
                        Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:28:47 -0300
                        Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: A bit of refinement (or just a plain example list)

                         
                        Seamus,

                        The rolled-up powers were, with their intensities:

                        Mental Blast 4

                        Blinding 10 (bonus power:  Blinding Burst)

                        Telekinesis 4

                        Fabrício


                        2011/8/31 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                         
                        What other powers do you have? And what's your origin (if it's not the Alien many of us already know. :))?


                        --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well, guys, let me stand corrected. After reading and re-reading the
                        > definition of the Blinding power and comparing the effect I wanted to create
                        > with characters from comics, I have to admit that Paralysis or Binding are
                        > more appropriate than Blinding to describe it. I'll have to think on another
                        > kind of effect for this Blinding 8 (gasp!) power.
                        >
                        > Best regards,
                        >
                        > Fabrício
                        >
                        > Em 30 de agosto de 2011 22:45, Fabrício César Franco
                        > <fabfranco@...>escreveu:

                        >
                        > > The mechanical is the same: blinding as a sort of cancelling one of the
                        > > senses, in this case, balance. The problem with blinding is that is too
                        > > narrow, compared to other powers in the list. For instance, what's the use
                        > > of cancelling taste in a battle? Well, thanks everybody to your kind help,
                        > > as usual.
                        > >
                        > > And I hope not to bring this into a house rule. It's more to keep it as an
                        > > interpretation of the RAW.
                        > >
                        > > Best regards,
                        > >
                        > > Fabrício
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 2011/8/30 Seamus <sotp_seamus@...>
                        > >
                        > >> **

                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Hey. Careful who you say that around.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Icosahedrophilia <d20@> wrote:
                        > >> >
                        > >> > On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:32 PM, robert fv wrote:
                        > >> > > Hopefully we can keep the house rules part to a minimum.
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > LOL.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Chris Heard
                        > >> > Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                        > >> > http://drchris.me/d20
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >


                        .


                      • Fabrício César Franco
                        Soylent, I totally agree with you. That s why, when the character was rolled up, I envision it with Blinding power connected not the sense of sight, but to the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                          Soylent,

                          I totally agree with you. That's why, when the character was rolled up, I envision it with Blinding power connected not the sense of sight, but to the sense of balance (as the book puts it, we can select another sense to Blinding to affect). Taste was out of the question, as well as smell. I even cogitated of touch, but then again, no. I rolled up an 8 for Blinding and the 2 came from the bonus origin, like you said. I don't really want it to keep it at 10 as it is - if it was a way of affecting people's balance, it would be ten times cooler. But Blinding doesn't do that. By RAW, it's Paralysis or Binding. The Marvel characters converted that I've seen (Equilibrius, for instance) use one of the two. 

                          I'm open to suggestion to how to tinker with this character. Any and every suggestion welcome.

                          Thank you very much for your input,

                          Fabrício
                        • Soylent Green
                          I think the simplest solution is to cross out Blinding and write Binding . Other GMs may not agree - different tables, different rules - but I would totally
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                            I think the simplest solution is to cross out "Blinding" and write "Binding". Other GMs may not agree - different tables, different rules - but I would totally allow that and have done so in the past.

                            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                            From: fabfranco@...
                            Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:49:45 -0300
                            Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Re: A bit of refinement (or just a plain example list)

                             
                            Soylent,

                            I totally agree with you. That's why, when the character was rolled up, I envision it with Blinding power connected not the sense of sight, but to the sense of balance (as the book puts it, we can select another sense to Blinding to affect). Taste was out of the question, as well as smell. I even cogitated of touch, but then again, no. I rolled up an 8 for Blinding and the 2 came from the bonus origin, like you said. I don't really want it to keep it at 10 as it is - if it was a way of affecting people's balance, it would be ten times cooler. But Blinding doesn't do that. By RAW, it's Paralysis or Binding. The Marvel characters converted that I've seen (Equilibrius, for instance) use one of the two. 

                            I'm open to suggestion to how to tinker with this character. Any and every suggestion welcome.

                            Thank you very much for your input,

                            Fabrício


                          • Fabrício César Franco
                            Seamus (et alii of pbem group), are you there reading this? [?] Seriously, now... I was tempted to do that, Soylent. Though, I don t want to mess around with
                            Message 13 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                              Seamus (et alii of pbem group), are you there reading this?  

                              Seriously, now... I was tempted to do that, Soylent. Though, I don't want to mess around with the randomness of the rolls. I'll trust my pbem group to decide this (Seamus et alii, the ball's to you!).

                              Fabrício
                            • Cameron Mount
                              I m cool with the switch. Rule of cool and all that. 2011/8/31 Fabrício César Franco ... I m cool with the switch. Rule of cool and all
                              Message 14 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                                I'm cool with the switch. Rule of cool and all that.

                                2011/8/31 Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...>
                                 

                                Seamus (et alii of pbem group), are you there reading this?  


                                Seriously, now... I was tempted to do that, Soylent. Though, I don't want to mess around with the randomness of the rolls. I'll trust my pbem group to decide this (Seamus et alii, the ball's to you!).

                                Fabrício


                              • Seamus
                                Are we still talking about how to justify Blinding?
                                Message 15 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                                  Are we still talking about how to justify Blinding?

                                  --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Seamus (et alii of pbem group), are you there reading this? [?]
                                  >
                                  > Seriously, now... I was tempted to do that, Soylent. Though, I don't want to
                                  > mess around with the randomness of the rolls. I'll trust my pbem group to
                                  > decide this (Seamus et alii, the ball's to you!).
                                  >
                                  > Fabrício
                                  >
                                • Fabrício César Franco
                                  Not anymore, thanks. I used your suggestion on psychic shock. Made much more sense now, after I thought about it. Thank you very much! You really helped! Best
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                                    Not anymore, thanks. I used your suggestion on psychic shock. Made much more sense now, after I thought about it. Thank you very much! You really helped!

                                    Best regards,

                                    Fabrício
                                  • Icosahedrophilia
                                    ... +1 I wouldn t object at all. Chris Heard Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast http://drchris.me/d20
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                                      On Aug 31, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Soylent Green wrote:
                                      > I think the simplest solution is to cross out "Blinding" and write "Binding". Other GMs may not agree - different tables, different rules - but I would totally allow that and have done so in the past.


                                      +1

                                      I wouldn't object at all.

                                      Chris Heard
                                      Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                                      http://drchris.me/d20
                                    • Fabrício César Franco
                                      Chris, I ll leave it for a future rolled-up character. But thanks, nevertheless. Best regards, Fabrício Chris, I ll leave it for a future rolled-up character.
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Aug 31, 2011
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                                        Chris,

                                        I'll leave it for a future rolled-up character. But thanks, nevertheless.

                                        Best regards,

                                        Fabrício
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