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Re: [icons-rpg] Character Conversions

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  • Tommy Brownell
    In my experience, that is generally the best approach across the board, regardless of systems. ... From: Cameron Mount To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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      In my experience, that is generally the best approach across the board, regardless of systems.
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Character Conversions

       

      It is definitely not that simple. You'd seriously just be better keeping the concepts from ICONS and making a whole new character in M&M that hits the concepts.


      Best,
      Cameron

      On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 13:03, Fabricio <fabfranco@...> wrote:
       

      Hello, there.

      I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

      Thanks,

      Fabrício Franco



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    • Fabrício César Franco
      Thanks, Cameron, for your input. But I m trying to find a benchmark chart from M&M to Icons, as if to see my group is not too out of bounds . Best, Fabrício
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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        Thanks, Cameron, for your input. But I'm trying to find a benchmark chart from M&M to Icons, as if to see my group is not too 'out of bounds'. 

        Best,

        Fabrício Franco

        2011/8/2 Cameron Mount <cameron.a.mount@...>
         

        It is definitely not that simple. You'd seriously just be better keeping the concepts from ICONS and making a whole new character in M&M that hits the concepts.


        Best,
        Cameron


        On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 13:03, Fabricio <fabfranco@...> wrote:
         

        Hello, there.

        I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

        Thanks,

        Fabrício Franco


        .

      • Cameron Mount
        Benchmarks for what, exactly? Like what a Level 6 Strike in ICONS would be equivalent to in M&M? I m not sure such a thing exists. There are benchmarks on the
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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          Benchmarks for what, exactly? Like what a Level 6 Strike in ICONS would be equivalent to in M&M? I'm not sure such a thing exists.

          There are benchmarks on the wiki (http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com/Benchmarks) that assign levels to comic book heroes. Maybe that's the kind of thing you're looking for? If not, you'll have to describe what you're looking for a bit better. If it's what I said in the first paragraph, again, I just don't think such a thing exists, or really could exist with any sense of authority in it.

          2011/8/2 Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...>
           

          Thanks, Cameron, for your input. But I'm trying to find a benchmark chart from M&M to Icons, as if to see my group is not too 'out of bounds'. 


          Best,

          Fabrício Franco

          2011/8/2 Cameron Mount <cameron.a.mount@...>
           

          It is definitely not that simple. You'd seriously just be better keeping the concepts from ICONS and making a whole new character in M&M that hits the concepts.


          Best,
          Cameron


          On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 13:03, Fabricio <fabfranco@...> wrote:
           

          Hello, there.

          I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

          Thanks,

          Fabrício Franco


          .


        • Fabrício César Franco
          Cameron, How authoritative is this benchmark? I mean, I have seen Batman portrayed with a higher level of Prowess that s there, as well as Captain America s
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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            Cameron,

            How 'authoritative' is this benchmark? I mean, I have seen Batman portrayed with a higher level of Prowess that's there, as well as Captain America's coordination (I have seen the converted characters in the wiki too). If I was in doubt before, now I'm simply confused. 

            Fabrício Franco

            2011/8/2 Cameron Mount <cameron.a.mount@...>
             

            Benchmarks for what, exactly? Like what a Level 6 Strike in ICONS would be equivalent to in M&M? I'm not sure such a thing exists.


            There are benchmarks on the wiki (http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com/Benchmarks) that assign levels to comic book heroes. Maybe that's the kind of thing you're looking for? If not, you'll have to describe what you're looking for a bit better. If it's what I said in the first paragraph, again, I just don't think such a thing exists, or really could exist with any sense of authority in it.

            2011/8/2 Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...>
             

            Thanks, Cameron, for your input. But I'm trying to find a benchmark chart from M&M to Icons, as if to see my group is not too 'out of bounds'. 


            Best,

            Fabrício Franco

            2011/8/2 Cameron Mount <cameron.a.mount@...>
             

            It is definitely not that simple. You'd seriously just be better keeping the concepts from ICONS and making a whole new character in M&M that hits the concepts.


            Best,
            Cameron


            On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 13:03, Fabricio <fabfranco@...> wrote:
             

            Hello, there.

            I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

            Thanks,

            Fabrício Franco


            .


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          • Cameron Mount
            It s not authoritative at all, really. I don t know who made it. I just know that it exists. I don t think there IS an authoritative look at that kind of
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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              It's not authoritative at all, really. I don't know who made it. I just know that it exists.

              I don't think there IS an authoritative look at that kind of benchmark. And there really can't be such a benchmark because you'd be dealing with copyrighted characters. I think the benchmarks for Captain America were high, and I think most people who entered the contest had similar views on those benchmarks as I do. If you look at most of the entries, Prowess and Coordination were around 5 or 6.

              2011/8/2 Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...>
               

              Cameron,


              How 'authoritative' is this benchmark? I mean, I have seen Batman portrayed with a higher level of Prowess that's there, as well as Captain America's coordination (I have seen the converted characters in the wiki too). If I was in doubt before, now I'm simply confused. 

              Fabrício Franco

              2011/8/2 Cameron Mount <cameron.a.mount@...>
               

              Benchmarks for what, exactly? Like what a Level 6 Strike in ICONS would be equivalent to in M&M? I'm not sure such a thing exists.


              There are benchmarks on the wiki (http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com/Benchmarks) that assign levels to comic book heroes. Maybe that's the kind of thing you're looking for? If not, you'll have to describe what you're looking for a bit better. If it's what I said in the first paragraph, again, I just don't think such a thing exists, or really could exist with any sense of authority in it.

              2011/8/2 Fabrício César Franco <fabfranco@...>
               

              Thanks, Cameron, for your input. But I'm trying to find a benchmark chart from M&M to Icons, as if to see my group is not too 'out of bounds'. 


              Best,

              Fabrício Franco

              2011/8/2 Cameron Mount <cameron.a.mount@...>
               

              It is definitely not that simple. You'd seriously just be better keeping the concepts from ICONS and making a whole new character in M&M that hits the concepts.


              Best,
              Cameron


              On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 13:03, Fabricio <fabfranco@...> wrote:
               

              Hello, there.

              I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

              Thanks,

              Fabrício Franco


              .


              .



            • Icosahedrophilia
              ... Actually, I made it. I also explained on the same page where the numbers came from and their limitations. It s obviously not authoritative,
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                On Aug 2, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Cameron Mount wrote:
                 

                It's not authoritative at all, really. I don't know who made it. I just know that it exists.

                Actually, I made it. <shy smile> I also explained on the same page where the numbers came from and their limitations. It's obviously not authoritative, really just an exercise in collating data. It's not an attempt to shoehorn anybody into anything, just a rough-and-ready conversion from FASERIP to ICONS, really.

                When dealing with this like this, it's always helpful to remember that comic book writers don't operate with mathematical models for characters' powers. Even the power levels as shown in things like the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe and the DK encyclopedias and such can vary pretty noticeably. Speaking of, apparently since 2004 the scale used in OHOTMU power grids has been relatively stable, and could be useful in benchmarking and comparisons for ICONS characters: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Power_Grids#All-New_OHotMU_Power_Grids

                Chris Heard
                Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast

              • Fabrício César Franco
                Chris, Thank you for pointing us up to those Power Grids. Really helpful! Best, Fabrício Franco 2011/8/2 Icosahedrophilia ... Chris, Thank
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                  Chris,

                  Thank you for pointing us up to those Power Grids. Really helpful!

                  Best,

                  Fabrício Franco

                  2011/8/2 Icosahedrophilia <d20@...>
                   

                  On Aug 2, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Cameron Mount wrote:
                   

                  It's not authoritative at all, really. I don't know who made it. I just know that it exists.

                  Actually, I made it. <shy smile> I also explained on the same page where the numbers came from and their limitations. It's obviously not authoritative, really just an exercise in collating data. It's not an attempt to shoehorn anybody into anything, just a rough-and-ready conversion from FASERIP to ICONS, really.

                  When dealing with this like this, it's always helpful to remember that comic book writers don't operate with mathematical models for characters' powers. Even the power levels as shown in things like the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe and the DK encyclopedias and such can vary pretty noticeably. Speaking of, apparently since 2004 the scale used in OHOTMU power grids has been relatively stable, and could be useful in benchmarking and comparisons for ICONS characters: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Power_Grids#All-New_OHotMU_Power_Grids

                  Chris Heard
                  Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast

                  .

                • Cameron Mount
                  Chris, Just to be sure, but I meant no offense. In any case, the link the Marvel site is a good one that I reference fairly often when trying to create
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                    Chris,

                    Just to be sure, but I meant no offense.

                    In any case, the link the Marvel site is a good one that I reference fairly often when trying to create characters in M&M or ICONS.

                    Best,
                    Cameron

                    On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 19:07, Icosahedrophilia <d20@...> wrote:
                     

                    On Aug 2, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Cameron Mount wrote:
                     

                    It's not authoritative at all, really. I don't know who made it. I just know that it exists.

                    Actually, I made it. <shy smile> I also explained on the same page where the numbers came from and their limitations. It's obviously not authoritative, really just an exercise in collating data. It's not an attempt to shoehorn anybody into anything, just a rough-and-ready conversion from FASERIP to ICONS, really.

                    When dealing with this like this, it's always helpful to remember that comic book writers don't operate with mathematical models for characters' powers. Even the power levels as shown in things like the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe and the DK encyclopedias and such can vary pretty noticeably. Speaking of, apparently since 2004 the scale used in OHOTMU power grids has been relatively stable, and could be useful in benchmarking and comparisons for ICONS characters: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Power_Grids#All-New_OHotMU_Power_Grids

                    Chris Heard
                    Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast


                  • Icosahedrophilia
                    ... None taken! Not even close! Chris Heard Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast http://drchris.me/d20
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                      On Aug 2, 2011, at 4:15 PM, Cameron Mount wrote:
                      > Just to be sure, but I meant no offense.


                      None taken! Not even close!

                      Chris Heard
                      Icosahedrophilia Blog and Podcast
                      http://drchris.me/d20
                    • Soylent Green
                      I m not familiar with M&M but I did find some M&M Marvel conversions here http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Marvel_Comic_2e which one can compare to Marvel
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                        I'm not familiar with M&M but I did find some M&M Marvel conversions here http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Marvel_Comic_2e which one can compare to Marvel conversions on the Icons in our Yahoo Groups files section.

                        I don't think there is a simple way of doing this because the system just seem to scale very differently, but this can be a starting point.

                        Attributes in M&M seem to go from 1 to the high 40s. A simple divide by 4 might just about about work  tempered with common sense especially at either end of the scale.

                        M&M does not have an equivalent to Prowess. However there is an Attack value in M&M which seems to go from 1 to mid teens. So maybe something like Attack -4 would do the trick, manually adjusting for character with lower Attack (You don't want The Invisible Woman to end up with -1 Prowess!). Maybe what you need here is a conversion table so you can compress ranges more smoothly.

                        Powers are even more problematic. The scale seems to generally be in the 1 to 20 range but using a crude dived by zero doesn't seem to work at all. Looking at a couple of example it 1/2 conversion ratio would give Wasp 10 Shrinking power in Icons (Cosmic!) while Quicksilver's superspeed would be just 4. 

                        Just some thoughts, but it might explain why no one has posted conversion guidelines before.


                        To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                        From: fabfranco@...
                        Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 17:03:06 +0000
                        Subject: [icons-rpg] Character Conversions

                         
                        Hello, there.

                        I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

                        Thanks,

                        Fabrício Franco


                      • Fabrício César Franco
                        It makes me wonder how two different games would sprout from the same creator s mind (Mr. Kenson s). It would be nice if he develop his conversion
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                          It makes me wonder how two different games would sprout from the same creator's mind (Mr. Kenson's). It would be nice if he develop his conversion guidelines... (wishful thinking).

                          Fabrício Franco

                          2011/8/2 Soylent Green <gsoylent@...>
                           

                          I'm not familiar with M&M but I did find some M&M Marvel conversions here http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Marvel_Comic_2e which one can compare to Marvel conversions on the Icons in our Yahoo Groups files section.

                          I don't think there is a simple way of doing this because the system just seem to scale very differently, but this can be a starting point.

                          Attributes in M&M seem to go from 1 to the high 40s. A simple divide by 4 might just about about work  tempered with common sense especially at either end of the scale.

                          M&M does not have an equivalent to Prowess. However there is an Attack value in M&M which seems to go from 1 to mid teens. So maybe something like Attack -4 would do the trick, manually adjusting for character with lower Attack (You don't want The Invisible Woman to end up with -1 Prowess!). Maybe what you need here is a conversion table so you can compress ranges more smoothly.

                          Powers are even more problematic. The scale seems to generally be in the 1 to 20 range but using a crude dived by zero doesn't seem to work at all. Looking at a couple of example it 1/2 conversion ratio would give Wasp 10 Shrinking power in Icons (Cosmic!) while Quicksilver's superspeed would be just 4. 

                          Just some thoughts, but it might explain why no one has posted conversion guidelines before.


                          To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                          From: fabfranco@...
                          Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 17:03:06 +0000
                          Subject: [icons-rpg] Character Conversions

                           
                          Hello, there.

                          I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

                          Thanks,

                          Fabrício Franco



                        • Soylent Green
                          Simple actually. Icons is based on Kenson s ideas for converting TSR s Marvel Super Heroes game to Fudge (which eventually turned into Fate). M&M is based on
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 2, 2011
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                            Simple actually. Icons is based on Kenson's ideas for converting TSR's Marvel Super Heroes game to Fudge (which eventually turned into Fate). M&M is based on system introduced by D&D 3e. So in essence he built the two games from different frameworks. 


                            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                            From: fabfranco@...
                            Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 20:40:27 -0300
                            Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Character Conversions

                             
                            It makes me wonder how two different games would sprout from the same creator's mind (Mr. Kenson's). It would be nice if he develop his conversion guidelines... (wishful thinking).

                            Fabrício Franco

                            2011/8/2 Soylent Green <gsoylent@...>
                             

                            I'm not familiar with M&M but I did find some M&M Marvel conversions here http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Marvel_Comic_2e which one can compare to Marvel conversions on the Icons in our Yahoo Groups files section.

                            I don't think there is a simple way of doing this because the system just seem to scale very differently, but this can be a starting point.

                            Attributes in M&M seem to go from 1 to the high 40s. A simple divide by 4 might just about about work  tempered with common sense especially at either end of the scale.

                            M&M does not have an equivalent to Prowess. However there is an Attack value in M&M which seems to go from 1 to mid teens. So maybe something like Attack -4 would do the trick, manually adjusting for character with lower Attack (You don't want The Invisible Woman to end up with -1 Prowess!). Maybe what you need here is a conversion table so you can compress ranges more smoothly.

                            Powers are even more problematic. The scale seems to generally be in the 1 to 20 range but using a crude dived by zero doesn't seem to work at all. Looking at a couple of example it 1/2 conversion ratio would give Wasp 10 Shrinking power in Icons (Cosmic!) while Quicksilver's superspeed would be just 4. 

                            Just some thoughts, but it might explain why no one has posted conversion guidelines before.


                            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                            From: fabfranco@...
                            Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 17:03:06 +0000
                            Subject: [icons-rpg] Character Conversions

                             
                            Hello, there.

                            I'm looking for a chart which shows me how to convert M&M to Icons. Does anybody know?

                            Thanks,

                            Fabrício Franco





                          • selphil@yahoo.com
                            I recently had to convert characters from M&M to Icons...and I know this isn t what you want to hear, but I just had to eyeball it. As far as abilities went, I
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 3, 2011
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                              I recently had to convert characters from M&M to Icons...and I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I just had to eyeball it.

                              As far as abilities went, I just looked if they were below average/average/above average in M&M and then made them the equivalent in Icons.

                              Yeah, my wrist got all tired from all the hand-waving.
                            • Fabrício César Franco
                              Glad to know that. Hand-waving from now on... [?] 2011/8/3 ... Glad to know that. Hand-waving from now on...  2011/8/3
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 3, 2011
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                                Glad to know that. Hand-waving from now on... 

                                2011/8/3 <selphil@...>
                                 

                                I recently had to convert characters from M&M to Icons...and I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I just had to eyeball it.

                                As far as abilities went, I just looked if they were below average/average/above average in M&M and then made them the equivalent in Icons.

                                Yeah, my wrist got all tired from all the hand-waving.

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