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Icons one year on

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  • Soylent Green
    I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post. I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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      I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.

      I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.

      Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?

      Are people still playing it?

      What about the support? And what is coming next?

      In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever. 

      One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.
    • Mike Olson
      ... What, that they don t like FATE? --Mike
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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        One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear.

        What, that they don't like FATE?

        --Mike
      • Tommy Brownell
        My kid and I have played it one time...he enjoyed it WAY more than I did (part of the reason I haven t compelled to do it twice)... That said, I HAVE noticed
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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          My kid and I have played it one time...he enjoyed it WAY more than I did (part of the reason I haven't compelled to do it twice)...
           
          That said, I HAVE noticed that after dealing with the FATE-like elements of ICONS, I understand "regular" FATE much, MUCH better.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 1:23 PM
          Subject: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

           

          I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.


          I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.

          Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?

          Are people still playing it?

          What about the support? And what is coming next?

          In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever. 

          One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.


          No virus found in this message.
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        • Soylent Green
          Well to put it into context, we ve been playing with Fate on and off since Fate 2. Fate got some really cool features and we all drawn to the rules-light,
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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            Well to put it into context, we've been playing with Fate on and off since Fate 2. Fate got some really cool features and we all drawn to the rules-light, character-centric side of Fate (at least as it originally was). But we've also had some trouble with it, especially the less immersive elements of the game. So there been a lot of play Fate, discuss what went well and what did not, go back to the drawing board and rethink it and trying again. We've been through this cycle several times now. If we didn't like it, we would not even try.

            Icons just clicked first time. 


            To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
            From: devlin1@...
            Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:25:13 -0700
            Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

             

            One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear.

            What, that they don't like FATE?

            --Mike

          • Brandon Blackmoor
            On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:23 +0100, Soylent Green ... It s reinvigorated the superhero genre for my game group, and in a sense
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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              On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:23 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
              > Are people still playing it?


              It's reinvigorated the superhero genre for my game group, and in a sense
              reinvigorated the group itself. Before ICONS came out, I had pretty much
              given up on our ever playing superheroes again.

              So, personally: yeah, Massive success. :)


              Kind regards,
              Brandon Blackmoor

              --
              bblackmoor@...
              2011-06-11
            • Ron Frazier
              Seeing as I just finished another session/comic issue of a series that I started when the game out a year ago, with this group enjoying every minute of it, I d
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                Seeing as I just finished another session/comic issue of a series that I started when the game out a year ago, with this group enjoying every minute of it, I'd have to call it a "massive success" from my end.

                P.S. Brandon I'm loving your podcast.

                - Ron Frazier -

                On Jun 11, 2011 3:16 PM, "Brandon Blackmoor" <bblackmoor@...> wrote:
                > On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:23 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>

                > wrote:
                >>
                >> Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                >> Are people still playing it?
                >
                >
                > It's reinvigorated the superhero genre for my game group, and in a sense
                > reinvigorated the group itself. Before ICONS came out, I had pretty much
                > given up on our ever playing superheroes again.
                >
                > So, personally: yeah, Massive success. :)
                >
                >
                > Kind regards,
                > Brandon Blackmoor
                >
                > --
                > bblackmoor@...
                > 2011-06-11

              • Curt Meyer
                Through ICONS I have re-connected with my gaming group from college over Skype, all of whom I hadn t seen in 11 years or so, let alone gamed with. The GM and I
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                  Through ICONS I have re-connected with my gaming group from college over Skype, all of whom I hadn't seen in 11 years or so, let alone gamed with. The GM and I are in agreement that it's the best evolution of the Marvel Super Heroes system so far. In his words, "I'm old, I like simple." What really keeps me excited about the game are Dan Houser's Hero Packs, and the almost weekly releases by Vigilance Press. I believe I have 58 PDFs in the ICONS folder on my IPad. ...not bad for a game that's only been out a year. As far as my local group goes, two of us are avid ICONS fans, but the others are 4e "roll" players, so we've only played on session. Keep the low cost PDFs coming. If you publish, I will buy!

                  Sent from my iPad

                  On Jun 11, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Ron Frazier <ronfraz63@...> wrote:

                   

                  Seeing as I just finished another session/comic issue of a series that I started when the game out a year ago, with this group enjoying every minute of it, I'd have to call it a "massive success" from my end.

                  P.S. Brandon I'm loving your podcast.

                  - Ron Frazier -

                  On Jun 11, 2011 3:16 PM, "Brandon Blackmoor" <bblackmoor@...> wrote:
                  > On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:23 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                  >> Are people still playing it?
                  >
                  >
                  > It's reinvigorated the superhero genre for my game group, and in a sense
                  > reinvigorated the group itself. Before ICONS came out, I had pretty much
                  > given up on our ever playing superheroes again.
                  >
                  > So, personally: yeah, Massive success. :)
                  >
                  >
                  > Kind regards,
                  > Brandon Blackmoor
                  >
                  > --
                  > bblackmoor@...
                  > 2011-06-11

                • Soylent Green
                  I m old, I like simple. I so get that. To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com From: curtmeyer@gmail.com Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:27:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [icons-rpg]
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                    "I'm old, I like simple."

                    I so get that.


                    To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                    From: curtmeyer@...
                    Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:27:46 -0500
                    Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                     

                    Through ICONS I have re-connected with my gaming group from college over Skype, all of whom I hadn't seen in 11 years or so, let alone gamed with. The GM and I are in agreement that it's the best evolution of the Marvel Super Heroes system so far. In his words, "I'm old, I like simple." What really keeps me excited about the game are Dan Houser's Hero Packs, and the almost weekly releases by Vigilance Press. I believe I have 58 PDFs in the ICONS folder on my IPad. ...not bad for a game that's only been out a year. As far as my local group goes, two of us are avid ICONS fans, but the others are 4e "roll" players, so we've only played on session. Keep the low cost PDFs coming. If you publish, I will buy!

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Jun 11, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Ron Frazier <ronfraz63@...> wrote:

                     

                    Seeing as I just finished another session/comic issue of a series that I started when the game out a year ago, with this group enjoying every minute of it, I'd have to call it a "massive success" from my end.
                    P.S. Brandon I'm loving your podcast.
                    - Ron Frazier -
                    On Jun 11, 2011 3:16 PM, "Brandon Blackmoor" <bblackmoor@...> wrote:
                    > On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:23 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                    >> Are people still playing it?
                    >
                    >
                    > It's reinvigorated the superhero genre for my game group, and in a sense
                    > reinvigorated the group itself. Before ICONS came out, I had pretty much
                    > given up on our ever playing superheroes again.
                    >
                    > So, personally: yeah, Massive success. :)
                    >
                    >
                    > Kind regards,
                    > Brandon Blackmoor
                    >
                    > --
                    > bblackmoor@...
                    > 2011-06-11



                  • ;ohn McMullen
                    I m there, too. It has taken me a while to get used to GMing the Determination point aspect, giving them out and letting them spend them--but we have only
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                      I'm there, too.

                      It has taken me a while to get used to GMing the Determination point aspect, giving them out and letting them spend them--but we have only played three sessions.

                      I am grateful for the adventures. M&M got too complex with the last edition, when what I liked was its simplicity.

                      Mark ICONS as a big success for me.

                      John

                      Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


                      From: Soylent Green <gsoylent@...>
                      Sender: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 21:30:16 +0100
                      To: icons group<icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                      ReplyTo: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                      "I'm old, I like simple."

                      I so get that.


                      To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                      From: curtmeyer@...
                      Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:27:46 -0500
                      Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                       

                      Through ICONS I have re-connected with my gaming group from college over Skype, all of whom I hadn't seen in 11 years or so, let alone gamed with. The GM and I are in agreement that it's the best evolution of the Marvel Super Heroes system so far. In his words, "I'm old, I like simple." What really keeps me excited about the game are Dan Houser's Hero Packs, and the almost weekly releases by Vigilance Press. I believe I have 58 PDFs in the ICONS folder on my IPad. ...not bad for a game that's only been out a year. As far as my local group goes, two of us are avid ICONS fans, but the others are 4e "roll" players, so we've only played on session. Keep the low cost PDFs coming. If you publish, I will buy!

                      Sent from my iPad

                      On Jun 11, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Ron Frazier <ronfraz63@...> wrote:

                       

                      Seeing as I just finished another session/comic issue of a series that I started when the game out a year ago, with this group enjoying every minute of it, I'd have to call it a "massive success" from my end.
                      P.S. Brandon I'm loving your podcast.
                      - Ron Frazier -
                      On Jun 11, 2011 3:16 PM, "Brandon Blackmoor" <bblackmoor@...> wrote:
                      > On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:23 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                      >> Are people still playing it?
                      >
                      >
                      > It's reinvigorated the superhero genre for my game group, and in a sense
                      > reinvigorated the group itself. Before ICONS came out, I had pretty much
                      > given up on our ever playing superheroes again.
                      >
                      > So, personally: yeah, Massive success. :)
                      >
                      >
                      > Kind regards,
                      > Brandon Blackmoor
                      >
                      > --
                      > bblackmoor@...
                      > 2011-06-11



                    • Chris Tavares
                      Well, I ve run two one-shot sessions so far. They were both a lot of fun, and the first games I ve run in about five years at this point, so I credit it for
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                        Well, I’ve run two one-shot sessions so far. They were both a lot of fun, and the first games I’ve run in about five years at this point, so I credit it for getting me out of a GM’ing funk. Unfortunately, the gaming scene here seems to be a wasteland of D&D only with a small group of die-hard “so indie it hurts” games; supers seems to be pretty much a non-starter as genres go.

                         

                        -Chris

                         

                        From: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Soylent Green
                        Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:23 AM
                        To: icons group
                        Subject: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                         

                         

                        I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.

                         

                        I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.

                         

                        Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?

                         

                        Are people still playing it?

                         

                        What about the support? And what is coming next?

                         

                        In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever. 

                         

                        One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.

                      • Hollis McCray
                        ... Sadly, Icons was a limited success with my gaming group. We played several one-shot games with it, and decided that we liked M&M better for long-term play.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                          On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.
                          >
                          > I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.
                          > Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                          > Are people still playing it?
                          > What about the support? And what is coming next?
                          > In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever.
                          > One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.

                          Sadly, Icons was a limited success with my gaming group. We played
                          several one-shot games with it, and decided that we liked M&M better
                          for long-term play.

                          Mind you, since I'm known as the 'supers geek' of my gaming circle, I
                          keep Icons in my gaming bag just in case the night's GM can't run.
                          It's paid off a time or two.
                          --
                          Hollis McCray
                          aka The Fifth Wanderer

                          ascensionschild@...

                          "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of
                          LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere
                        • Tim K.
                          ... As I said elsewhere, I am not currently running it, my one game group shifted to H&S soon after (due to needs to playtest the tweaks.) However, a friend is
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                            On 6/11/2011 11:23 AM, Soylent Green wrote:
                            I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.

                            I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.

                            Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?

                            Are people still playing it?

                            What about the support? And what is coming next?

                            In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever. 

                            One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.



                            As I said elsewhere, I am not currently running it, my one game group shifted to H&S soon after (due to needs to playtest the tweaks.) However, a friend is prepping a game for me to play in--which is awesome. I love the game and thinks it does most things right. I can't wait to play the Steel Thunderbolt! I'm not sure what format he'll actually be in when played, but I think he's awesome. Steel Thunderbolt is the random Golden Age name, I rolled powers in the creator until I got something that fit the name. Superstrong, athlete, with "Blast" in this case
                            he throw jagged steel javelins. I'm thinking of other variants so I don't step on my likely companion's toes (A swordfighting hero.)

                            Any ideas? A superspeedster who turns to Steel? A flier with high armor? I like the form he's in he feels very Golden Age, and that's a good thing at this stage.


                            I should say some of the random villains I rolled up inspired me a great deal.




                          • Tim K.
                            ... Oh heck me too. That s why I write simple games, myself. I m glad you are having fun with Icons, I m sad about the change from MSH, after I spent so much
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                              On 6/11/2011 1:30 PM, Soylent Green wrote:
                              "I'm old, I like simple."

                              I so get that.


                              Oh heck me too. That's why I write simple games, myself.

                              I'm glad you are having fun with Icons, I'm sad about the change from MSH, after I spent so much time helping! (Kidding! That you are playing superheroes and having fun is awesome. Period!)

                            • Curt Meyer
                              I still think MSH is the best rpg ever published. But I understand the view of ICONS as FATE done right. Sent from my iPad
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 11, 2011
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                                I still think MSH is the best rpg ever published. But I understand the view of ICONS as "FATE done right." 

                                Sent from my iPad

                                On Jun 12, 2011, at 12:28 AM, "Tim K." <silverlion@...> wrote:

                                 

                                On 6/11/2011 1:30 PM, Soylent Green wrote:

                                "I'm old, I like simple."

                                I so get that.


                                Oh heck me too. That's why I write simple games, myself.

                                I'm glad you are having fun with Icons, I'm sad about the change from MSH, after I spent so much time helping! (Kidding! That you are playing superheroes and having fun is awesome. Period!)

                              • Soylent Green
                                I know what you mean, due to the timing of things MSH didn t really get the time in the sun in our group it deserved. But it wasn t waster effort because a lot
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 12, 2011
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                                  I know what you mean, due to the timing of things MSH didn't really get the time in the sun in our group it deserved. But it wasn't waster effort because a lot of what we learned with MSH carried over to Icons. 

                                  Also, for what it's MSH game is still the single most successful campaign I've ever run.


                                  To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: silverlion@...
                                  Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 22:28:56 -0700
                                  Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                                   
                                  On 6/11/2011 1:30 PM, Soylent Green wrote:
                                  "I'm old, I like simple."

                                  I so get that.


                                  Oh heck me too. That's why I write simple games, myself.

                                  I'm glad you are having fun with Icons, I'm sad about the change from MSH, after I spent so much time helping! (Kidding! That you are playing superheroes and having fun is awesome. Period!)


                                • Chad
                                  I was originally enthusiastic about ICONS. I pre-ordered it and ran it a few times, but there were flaws in the system that kept me from liking it and it went
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 12, 2011
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                                    I was originally enthusiastic about ICONS. I pre-ordered it and ran it a few times, but there were flaws in the system that kept me from liking it and it went on the shelf. Luckily, the new rules in the Villainomicon (especially Innate Invulnerability, Limited Tagging, and Starting Determination by Power Level) address a lot of the problems I had. If Adamant ever re-does the rulebook I hope they roll those in. Now I'm looking forward to giving the game another chance.

                                    -Chad
                                  • Brandon Blackmoor
                                    ... I am sure I am not alone (in fact, I know I m not) in hoping that the next edition of ICONS gets a thorough rewrite and reorganization, as well as an
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 12, 2011
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                                      On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:08 +0000, "Chad" <felixvesper@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > If Adamant ever re-does the rulebook I hope they roll those
                                      > in. Now I'm looking forward to giving the game another chance.


                                      I am sure I am not alone (in fact, I know I'm not) in hoping that the
                                      next edition of ICONS gets a thorough rewrite and reorganization, as
                                      well as an index. It is a rare game session that someone here doesn't
                                      complain about one or the other, or both.

                                      Here's a well-worn example: what page is major/massive success explained
                                      on? Hint: it's at least three pages, and each of them is at least 20
                                      pages away from its nearest neighbor. If you want to check how
                                      major/massive success works, you need to find *all* of those pages.
                                      Without an index.

                                      That one comes up nearly every game, but we still find a new one about
                                      every other game. It's almost to the point where it's a running gag. :)


                                      Kind regards,
                                      Brandon Blackmoor

                                      --
                                      bblackmoor@...
                                      2011-06-13
                                    • Benzedrine Sneezer
                                      What is it about game rule books and no index - kinda essential, wouldn t you think! ICONS is not alone. Come on publishers, get your act together and give us
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 12, 2011
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                                        What is it about game rule books and no index - kinda essential, wouldn't you think! ICONS is not alone. Come on publishers, get your act together and give us an index!


                                        From: Brandon Blackmoor <bblackmoor@...>
                                        To: Icons Discussion List <icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011, 5:20
                                        Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                                         
                                        On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:08 +0000, "Chad" <felixvesper@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > If Adamant ever re-does the rulebook I hope they roll those
                                        > in. Now I'm looking forward to giving the game another chance.

                                        I am sure I am not alone (in fact, I know I'm not) in hoping that the
                                        next edition of ICONS gets a thorough rewrite and reorganization, as
                                        well as an index. It is a rare game session that someone here doesn't
                                        complain about one or the other, or both.

                                        Here's a well-worn example: what page is major/massive success explained
                                        on? Hint: it's at least three pages, and each of them is at least 20
                                        pages away from its nearest neighbor. If you want to check how
                                        major/massive success works, you need to find *all* of those pages.
                                        Without an index.

                                        That one comes up nearly every game, but we still find a new one about
                                        every other game. It's almost to the point where it's a running gag. :)

                                        Kind regards,
                                        Brandon Blackmoor

                                        --
                                        bblackmoor@...
                                        2011-06-13


                                      • ;ohn McMullen
                                        A proper useful index is expensive to create--it contains synonyms as well as terms in the text. A listing of text terms isn t enough. So I can see why a
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                          A proper useful index is expensive to create--it contains synonyms as well as terms in the text. A listing of text terms isn't enough. So I can see why a publisher might not do it.

                                          I still want one, though.

                                          Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


                                          From: Benzedrine Sneezer <evil.genius13@...>
                                          Sender: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:03:40 +0100 (BST)
                                          To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com<icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                          ReplyTo: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                                          What is it about game rule books and no index - kinda essential, wouldn't you think! ICONS is not alone. Come on publishers, get your act together and give us an index!


                                          From: Brandon Blackmoor <bblackmoor@...>
                                          To: Icons Discussion List <icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011, 5:20
                                          Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on

                                           
                                          On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:08 +0000, "Chad" <felixvesper@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > If Adamant ever re-does the rulebook I hope they roll those
                                          > in. Now I'm looking forward to giving the game another chance.

                                          I am sure I am not alone (in fact, I know I'm not) in hoping that the
                                          next edition of ICONS gets a thorough rewrite and reorganization, as
                                          well as an index. It is a rare game session that someone here doesn't
                                          complain about one or the other, or both.

                                          Here's a well-worn example: what page is major/massive success explained
                                          on? Hint: it's at least three pages, and each of them is at least 20
                                          pages away from its nearest neighbor. If you want to check how
                                          major/massive success works, you need to find *all* of those pages.
                                          Without an index.

                                          That one comes up nearly every game, but we still find a new one about
                                          every other game. It's almost to the point where it's a running gag. :)

                                          Kind regards,
                                          Brandon Blackmoor

                                          --
                                          bblackmoor@...
                                          2011-06-13


                                        • dirkgentry2000
                                          without getting negative, I can say that I have heard these criticisms from a few different sources over the last year. It d be nice to see an ICONS 2.0 at
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                            without getting negative, I can say that I have heard these criticisms from a few different sources over the last year.
                                            It'd be nice to see an ICONS 2.0 at some point that addresses them

                                            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, ";ohn McMullen" <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > A proper useful index is expensive to create--it contains synonyms as well as terms in the text. A listing of text terms isn't enough. So I can see why a publisher might not do it.
                                            >
                                            > I still want one, though.
                                            > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Benzedrine Sneezer <evil.genius13@...>
                                            > Sender: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:03:40
                                            > To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com<icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Reply-To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on
                                            >
                                            > What is it about game rule books and no index - kinda essential, wouldn't you think! ICONS is not alone. Come on publishers, get your act together and give us an index!
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ________________________________
                                            > From: Brandon Blackmoor <bblackmoor@...>
                                            > To: Icons Discussion List <icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011, 5:20
                                            > Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >  
                                            > On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:08 +0000, "Chad" <felixvesper@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > If Adamant ever re-does the rulebook I hope they roll those
                                            > > in. Now I'm looking forward to giving the game another chance.
                                            >
                                            > I am sure I am not alone (in fact, I know I'm not) in hoping that the
                                            > next edition of ICONS gets a thorough rewrite and reorganization, as
                                            > well as an index. It is a rare game session that someone here doesn't
                                            > complain about one or the other, or both.
                                            >
                                            > Here's a well-worn example: what page is major/massive success explained
                                            > on? Hint: it's at least three pages, and each of them is at least 20
                                            > pages away from its nearest neighbor. If you want to check how
                                            > major/massive success works, you need to find *all* of those pages.
                                            > Without an index.
                                            >
                                            > That one comes up nearly every game, but we still find a new one about
                                            > every other game. It's almost to the point where it's a running gag. :)
                                            >
                                            > Kind regards,
                                            > Brandon Blackmoor
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > bblackmoor@...
                                            > 2011-06-13
                                            >
                                          • dirkgentry2000
                                            since you cross-posted - I ll cross reply :) ICONS has been very good to Vigilance Press. Our WW2 line has been very successful for you. Of course, we got very
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                              since you cross-posted - I'll cross reply :)

                                              ICONS has been very good to Vigilance Press. Our WW2 line has been very successful for you.

                                              Of course, we got very lucky. Support for ICONS from other third parties and Adamant was surprising light for a few months and we were able to have the market all to ourselves for quite a while.

                                              Currently we're finishing up our WW2 line and designing a line of short adventures called Action Scenes.

                                              --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.
                                              > I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.
                                              > Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                                              > Are people still playing it?
                                              > What about the support? And what is coming next?
                                              > In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever.
                                              > One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.
                                              >
                                            • Gareth-Michael Skarka
                                              WIth regards to the lack of an index in ICONS: In this case, it was a simple matter of space. We had 128 pages (as solicited to the retail stores months
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                                WIth regards to the lack of an index in ICONS: In this case, it was
                                                a simple matter of space. We had 128 pages (as solicited to the
                                                retail stores months in advance -- an estimate, but one we have to
                                                adhere to). Once layout came around, we released we were squeezed
                                                for space, and upon completion, had no room for an index.

                                                THat simple. No malice or error, just a matter of available space.

                                                -Gareth
                                              • Dr. Nuncheon
                                                I guess you will just need to make Icons 2e 144 pages and pack in some extra awesome! On two occasions I have been asked, – Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                                  I guess you will just need to make Icons 2e 144 pages and pack in some extra awesome!

                                                  "On two occasions I have been asked, – 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?'...I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage

                                                  On Jun 13, 2011, at 12:28 PM, Gareth-Michael Skarka <gms@...> wrote:

                                                   

                                                  WIth regards to the lack of an index in ICONS: In this case, it was
                                                  a simple matter of space. We had 128 pages (as solicited to the
                                                  retail stores months in advance -- an estimate, but one we have to
                                                  adhere to). Once layout came around, we released we were squeezed
                                                  for space, and upon completion, had no room for an index.

                                                  THat simple. No malice or error, just a matter of available space.

                                                  -Gareth

                                                • dirkgentry2000
                                                  That sentence should have read: our WW line has been very successful for us. that s what I get for posting too early in the morning :)
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                                    That sentence should have read: "our WW line has been very successful for us."

                                                    that's what I get for posting too early in the morning :)

                                                    --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "dirkgentry2000" <dirkgentry2000@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > since you cross-posted - I'll cross reply :)
                                                    >
                                                    > ICONS has been very good to Vigilance Press. Our WW2 line has been very successful for you.
                                                    >
                                                    > Of course, we got very lucky. Support for ICONS from other third parties and Adamant was surprising light for a few months and we were able to have the market all to ourselves for quite a while.
                                                    >
                                                    > Currently we're finishing up our WW2 line and designing a line of short adventures called Action Scenes.
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.
                                                    > > I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.
                                                    > > Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                                                    > > Are people still playing it?
                                                    > > What about the support? And what is coming next?
                                                    > > In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever.
                                                    > > One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                  • Soylent Green
                                                    I m sure it s been successful for us too! To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com From: dirkgentry2000@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:13:45 +0000 Subject:
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                                      I'm sure it's been successful for us too!


                                                      To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                                      From: dirkgentry2000@...
                                                      Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:13:45 +0000
                                                      Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: Icons one year on

                                                       
                                                      That sentence should have read: "our WW line has been very successful for us."

                                                      that's what I get for posting too early in the morning :)

                                                      --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "dirkgentry2000" <dirkgentry2000@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > since you cross-posted - I'll cross reply :)
                                                      >
                                                      > ICONS has been very good to Vigilance Press. Our WW2 line has been very successful for you.
                                                      >
                                                      > Of course, we got very lucky. Support for ICONS from other third parties and Adamant was surprising light for a few months and we were able to have the market all to ourselves for quite a while.
                                                      >
                                                      > Currently we're finishing up our WW2 line and designing a line of short adventures called Action Scenes.
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I posted this on rpgnet, but actually I probably should have gone here so forgive the cross post.
                                                      > > I just kind of noticed the, depending how you count it, Icons has been out for a year now. It's had a big on my gaming, but that might just be me.
                                                      > > Has it been a success commercially, critically or even personally?
                                                      > > Are people still playing it?
                                                      > > What about the support? And what is coming next?
                                                      > > In my own gaming circle it's been, to put in Icons terms, a "Massive Success". One year ago I was the guy introducing Icons to my group, just another game in a long series of games we've tried. Now we are hooked. They all want to run it if they haven't done so already. I've not seen this in our group such widespread enthusiasm for a game.. well ever.
                                                      > > One of the most common comments about Icons is that "it's Fate finally done right". I accept that technically that might not be quite correct, but the sentiment behind the sentiment is pretty clear. Icons certainly struck a chord.
                                                      > >
                                                      >


                                                    • Tim K.
                                                      ... I understand that, mind you, my most recent game had the darndest best Index I could write. But I wasn t soliciting them in advance, just POD and PDF at
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                                        On 6/13/2011 9:28 AM, Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:
                                                        > WIth regards to the lack of an index in ICONS: In this case, it was
                                                        > a simple matter of space. We had 128 pages (as solicited to the
                                                        > retail stores months in advance -- an estimate, but one we have to
                                                        > adhere to). Once layout came around, we released we were squeezed
                                                        > for space, and upon completion, had no room for an index.
                                                        >
                                                        > THat simple. No malice or error, just a matter of available space.
                                                        >
                                                        > -Gareth

                                                        I understand that, mind you, my most recent game had the darndest best
                                                        Index I could write. But I wasn't soliciting them in advance, just POD
                                                        and PDF at that time, so I had the option.
                                                      • Tim K.
                                                        ... Heh, if I weren t a poor game writer myself, I d own them all because I think they would be very successful for me!
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jun 13, 2011
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                                                          On 6/13/2011 10:13 AM, dirkgentry2000 wrote:
                                                          > That sentence should have read: "our WW line has been very successful for us."
                                                          >
                                                          > that's what I get for posting too early in the morning :)

                                                          Heh, if I weren't a poor game writer myself, I'd own them all because I
                                                          think they would be very successful for me!
                                                        • eric troup
                                                          Yes, and here s hoping if it does get done, in addition to re-organizing, could we please have more rules clarifications/examples? Please? Pretty please?!? ...
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jun 30, 2011
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                                                            Yes, and here's hoping if it does get done, in addition to re-organizing, could we please have more rules clarifications/examples? Please? Pretty please?!?


                                                            On 13 Jun 2011, at 07:47, dirkgentry2000 wrote:

                                                             

                                                            without getting negative, I can say that I have heard these criticisms from a few different sources over the last year.
                                                            It'd be nice to see an ICONS 2.0 at some point that addresses them

                                                            --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, ";ohn McMullen" <jhmcmullen@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > A proper useful index is expensive to create--it contains synonyms as well as terms in the text. A listing of text terms isn't enough. So I can see why a publisher might not do it.
                                                            >
                                                            > I still want one, though.
                                                            > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network
                                                            >
                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                            > From: Benzedrine Sneezer <evil.genius13@...>
                                                            > Sender: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:03:40
                                                            > To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com<icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > Reply-To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on
                                                            >
                                                            > What is it about game rule books and no index - kinda essential, wouldn't you think! ICONS is not alone. Come on publishers, get your act together and give us an index!
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > ________________________________
                                                            > From: Brandon Blackmoor <bblackmoor@...>
                                                            > To: Icons Discussion List <icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011, 5:20
                                                            > Subject: Re: [icons-rpg] Icons one year on
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >  
                                                            > On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:08 +0000, "Chad" <felixvesper@...> wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > > If Adamant ever re-does the rulebook I hope they roll those
                                                            > > in. Now I'm looking forward to giving the game another chance.
                                                            >
                                                            > I am sure I am not alone (in fact, I know I'm not) in hoping that the
                                                            > next edition of ICONS gets a thorough rewrite and reorganization, as
                                                            > well as an index. It is a rare game session that someone here doesn't
                                                            > complain about one or the other, or both.
                                                            >
                                                            > Here's a well-worn example: what page is major/massive success explained
                                                            > on? Hint: it's at least three pages, and each of them is at least 20
                                                            > pages away from its nearest neighbor. If you want to check how
                                                            > major/massive success works, you need to find *all* of those pages.
                                                            > Without an index.
                                                            >
                                                            > That one comes up nearly every game, but we still find a new one about
                                                            > every other game. It's almost to the point where it's a running gag. :)
                                                            >
                                                            > Kind regards,
                                                            > Brandon Blackmoor
                                                            >
                                                            > --
                                                            > bblackmoor@...
                                                            > 2011-06-13
                                                            >


                                                          • eric troup
                                                            Ah. That makes sense. Also could explain lack of examples. I didn t know you had to give the printer a page count in advance. That s got to be frustrating at
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jun 30, 2011
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                                                              Ah. That makes sense. Also could explain lack of examples. I didn't know you had to give the printer a page count in advance. That's got to be frustrating at times.

                                                              On 13 Jun 2011, at 09:28, Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:

                                                               

                                                              WIth regards to the lack of an index in ICONS: In this case, it was
                                                              a simple matter of space. We had 128 pages (as solicited to the
                                                              retail stores months in advance -- an estimate, but one we have to
                                                              adhere to). Once layout came around, we released we were squeezed
                                                              for space, and upon completion, had no room for an index.

                                                              THat simple. No malice or error, just a matter of available space.

                                                              -Gareth


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