## Re: [icons-rpg] Re: How exactly does difficulty work ?

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• It just means he beat the difficulty by 2 -- his effort was 4 and the difficulty was 2. Effect is important in combat, or if you want to have a general idea of
Message 1 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
It just means he beat the difficulty by 2 -- his effort was 4 and the difficulty was 2. Effect is important in combat, or if you want to have a general idea of how well someone succeeded (rather than a binary pass/fail thing). So succeeding by 2 -- that is, getting 2 points of effect -- is better than succeeding by 1 or zero.

Difficulty = Target Number
Effort = Total of your roll and all modifiers
Effect = Margin of success (the amount by which your effort beats the difficulty)

--Mike

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:18 AM, wee_ree_cat wrote:
The source of my confusion is that the corebook states :

---------------
Some tests require a minimum amount of effort, called the test's diffculty, which is rated on the
scale like other things, from the absolute minimum to cosmic levels of diffculty for nigh-impossible
tests. The diffculty is subtracted from the effort of the test to get the effect.

So, in the previous example, a roll of +1 and ability 3 have an effort of 4, but with a diffculty 2 test,
the effect is only 2, or 4 (the effort) minus 2 (the diffculty). If the effort isn't at least equal to the
diffculty, it results in a negative effect.
------------

in the example, it's a value you substract from the result. and I don't understand "if the effort isn't at least equal to the difficulty".

What does this mean ? That if the difficulty is 5, you substract -5 from the result of the roll AND what's left has to be 5+ ?

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Mike Olson <devlin1@...> wrote:
>
> Difficulty is a target number. Roll the dice (d6-d6, giving a range of -5 to
> +5), add Ability + Specialty (if any) + Power (if applicable), and compare
> that to the difficulty.
>
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding the source of your confusion. The difficulty is
> indeed "a number to equal or go beyond."
>
> --Mike
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:30 AM, wee_ree_cat <wee_ree_cat@...> wrote:
>
> > I know that may be the dumbest question in the mailing-list yet but... How
> > does the difficulty work ?
> >
> > The corebook says it's a malus on the roll... But I'm so accustomed to the
> > difficulty being a number to equal or go beyond that I have difficulties to
> > wrap my mind around this.
> >
> > Can anyone post a couple of simple in-game situations ? Can't find it in
> > the book, only an eample of the character creation.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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• Duh. I feel stupid. the sentence didn t look that clear to me so I was trying to find some other meaning than simply that. Thank you !
Message 2 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
Duh. I feel stupid. the sentence didn't look that clear to me so I was trying to find some other meaning than simply that.

Thank you !

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Mike Olson <devlin1@...> wrote:
>
> It just means he beat the difficulty by 2 -- his effort was 4 and the
> difficulty was 2. Effect is important in combat, or if you want to have a
> general idea of how well someone succeeded (rather than a binary pass/fail
> thing). So succeeding by 2 -- that is, getting 2 points of effect -- is
> better than succeeding by 1 or zero.
>
> Difficulty = Target Number
> Effort = Total of your roll and all modifiers
> Effect = Margin of success (the amount by which your effort beats the
> difficulty)
>
> --Mike
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:18 AM, wee_ree_cat <wee_ree_cat@...> wrote:
>
> > The source of my confusion is that the corebook states :
> >
> > ---------------
> > Some tests require a minimum amount of effort, called the test's diffculty,
> > which is rated on the
> > scale like other things, from the absolute minimum to cosmic levels of
> > diffculty for nigh-impossible
> > tests. The diffculty is subtracted from the effort of the test to get the
> > effect.
> >
> > So, in the previous example, a roll of +1 and ability 3 have an effort of
> > 4, but with a diffculty 2 test,
> > the effect is only 2, or 4 (the effort) minus 2 (the diffculty). If the
> > effort isn't at least equal to the
> > diffculty, it results in a negative effect.
> > ------------
> >
> > in the example, it's a value you substract from the result. and I don't
> > understand "if the effort isn't at least equal to the difficulty".
> >
> > What does this mean ? That if the difficulty is 5, you substract -5 from
> > the result of the roll AND what's left has to be 5+ ?
> >
> >
> > --- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Mike Olson <devlin1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Difficulty is a target number. Roll the dice (d6-d6, giving a range of -5
> > to
> > > +5), add Ability + Specialty (if any) + Power (if applicable), and
> > compare
> > > that to the difficulty.
> > >
> > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding the source of your confusion. The difficulty
> > is
> > > indeed "a number to equal or go beyond."
> > >
> > > --Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:30 AM, wee_ree_cat <wee_ree_cat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know that may be the dumbest question in the mailing-list yet but...
> > How
> > > > does the difficulty work ?
> > > >
> > > > The corebook says it's a malus on the roll... But I'm so accustomed to
> > the
> > > > difficulty being a number to equal or go beyond that I have
> > difficulties to
> > > > wrap my mind around this.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone post a couple of simple in-game situations ? Can't find it
> > in
> > > > the book, only an eample of the character creation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
• Hey, thanks for the tip about the difficulties. I m probably going to do the same. I tend to simplify stuff too so it sounds good to me ! By the way, this is
Message 3 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
Hey, thanks for the tip about the difficulties. I'm probably going to do the same. I tend to simplify stuff too so it sounds good to me !

By the way, this is Marianne's player typing. Thanks again for that awesome session this week-end, I actually went on GMing a LONG DELAYED Gargoyles RPG session with vyew and Skype the very next day.
I didn't know how I was going to pull an online game off so I had been avoiding it for two years... But our session on vyew really was the nudge I needed. My players thank you, and me too.

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> PS
> As a matter of preferrence, I tend to use fairly static difficulty ratings and not to worry too much about the exact difficulty of a test. I tend to stick with '3' for ordinary tests and '6' for heroic tests. It's may seem arbitrary and not a little shallow, but the advantage is consistency. If a character hot-wires a car in this week session I don't have to try to remember what difficulty a I set for the same task three weeks ago when this last happened. Also, I think players seem to receive it as fairer.
>
> Of course there are loads of exceptions adn the more important the test the more it worth thinking about . Also I tend to use the Skill Pyramid a lot. Not really relevant but I feel the Skill Pyramid is always worth mentioning.
>
>
>
>
> To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
> From: gsoylent@...
> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 11:44:22 +0100
> Subject: RE: [icons-rpg] How exactly does difficulty work ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Okay, here is a simple example.
>
> The Masked Avenger wants to hack into the mobster's email account. The GM determines that the difficulty is '5'. The Masked Avenger Intellect is 6.
> The player rolls 1d6-1d6 and adds it to his Intellect. The total needs to meet or beat 5.
>
> So let's say he rolls 4 on the "+" dice and 5 on the "-" dice, the player's total is 6 (Intellect) -1 (4-5) = 5. The test succeds with a margin of 0.
>
> How the GM deterimes the difficulty is somewhat arbitrary. There is a generic chart at the start of the book which provides adjectives for the number ranges. So for instance "5" defined as Expectional human which feels about right to me.
>
>
>
>
>
> To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
> From: wee_ree_cat@...
> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:30:37 +0000
> Subject: [icons-rpg] How exactly does difficulty work ?
>
>
>
>
> I know that may be the dumbest question in the mailing-list yet but... How does the difficulty work ?
>
> The corebook says it's a malus on the roll... But I'm so accustomed to the difficulty being a number to equal or go beyond that I have difficulties to wrap my mind around this.
>
> Can anyone post a couple of simple in-game situations ? Can't find it in the book, only an eample of the character creation.
>
• You re welcome. And to think you just wanted to lurk... tsk :-) Incidentally was that Gargoyles (as in the animitated series) done in ICONS? To:
Message 4 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
You're welcome. And to think you just wanted to lurk... tsk :-)

Incidentally was that Gargoyles (as in the animitated series) done in ICONS?

To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
From: wee_ree_cat@...
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 12:14:41 +0000
Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: How exactly does difficulty work ?

Hey, thanks for the tip about the difficulties. I'm probably going to do the same. I tend to simplify stuff too so it sounds good to me !

By the way, this is Marianne's player typing. Thanks again for that awesome session this week-end, I actually went on GMing a LONG DELAYED Gargoyles RPG session with vyew and Skype the very next day.
I didn't know how I was going to pull an online game off so I had been avoiding it for two years... But our session on vyew really was the nudge I needed. My players thank you, and me too.

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> PS
> As a matter of preferrence, I tend to use fairly static difficulty ratings and not to worry too much about the exact difficulty of a test. I tend to stick with '3' for ordinary tests and '6' for heroic tests. It's may seem arbitrary and not a little shallow, but the advantage is consistency. If a character hot-wires a car in this week session I don't have to try to remember what difficulty a I set for the same task three weeks ago when this last happened. Also, I think players seem to receive it as fairer.
>
> Of course there are loads of exceptions adn the more important the test the more it worth thinking about . Also I tend to use the Skill Pyramid a lot. Not really relevant but I feel the Skill Pyramid is always worth mentioning.
>
>
>
>
> To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
> From: gsoylent@...
> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 11:44:22 +0100
> Subject: RE: [icons-rpg] How exactly does difficulty work ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Okay, here is a simple example.
>
> The Masked Avenger wants to hack into the mobster's email account. The GM determines that the difficulty is '5'. The Masked Avenger Intellect is 6.
> The player rolls 1d6-1d6 and adds it to his Intellect. The total needs to meet or beat 5.
>
> So let's say he rolls 4 on the "+" dice and 5 on the "-" dice, the player's total is 6 (Intellect) -1 (4-5) = 5. The test succeds with a margin of 0.
>
> How the GM deterimes the difficulty is somewhat arbitrary. There is a generic chart at the start of the book which provides adjectives for the number ranges. So for instance "5" defined as Expectional human which feels about right to me.
>
>
>
>
>
> To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
> From: wee_ree_cat@...
> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:30:37 +0000
> Subject: [icons-rpg] How exactly does difficulty work ?
>
>
>
>
> I know that may be the dumbest question in the mailing-list yet but... How does the difficulty work ?
>
> The corebook says it's a malus on the roll... But I'm so accustomed to the difficulty being a number to equal or go beyond that I have difficulties to wrap my mind around this.
>
> Can anyone post a couple of simple in-game situations ? Can't find it in the book, only an eample of the character creation.
>

• On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:09 +0100, Soylent Green ... What is a Skill Pyramid? Kind regards, Brandon Blackmoor --
Message 5 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:09 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> Also I tend to use the Skill Pyramid a lot. Not really
> relevant but I feel the Skill Pyramid is always worth
> mentioning.

What is a Skill Pyramid?

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05
• Sorry I mean to say Success Pyramid. You can find the rule up ont he ICONS wiki (http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com). The Success Pyramid is
Message 6 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
Sorry I mean to say Success Pyramid. You can find the rule up ont he ICONS wiki (

The Success Pyramid is basically a way to do test using accumulated success levels.I first came accross the Success Pyramid in the "Skeletron Key" adventure. Word is it will be included in the Villainomicon.
The Success Pyramid really comes to life when you add some constraints to it. For instance, a time limit in which the success must be accumulated by or some sort of consequence each time a test fails. Then you can really build up some real tension for non-combat activities like interrogations, computer hacking or gadet repairs.

To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
From: bblackmoor@...
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:22:21 -0400
Subject: RE: [icons-rpg] How exactly does difficulty work ?

On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:09 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> Also I tend to use the Skill Pyramid a lot. Not really
> relevant but I feel the Skill Pyramid is always worth
> mentioning.

What is a Skill Pyramid?

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05

• On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 15:06 +0100, Soylent Green ... Oh, you just meant cumulative tasks. (Why would anyone call that a pyramid ?) Kind
Message 7 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 15:06 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> The Success Pyramid is basically a way to do test
> using accumulated success levels.

Oh, you just meant cumulative tasks. (Why would anyone call that a
"pyramid"?)

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05
• I think it s because a Major Success counts as two Moderate Successes, and a Massive Success counts as three (four?) Major Successes, so... that looks like a
Message 8 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
I think it's because a Major Success counts as two Moderate Successes, and a Massive Success counts as three (four?) Major Successes, so... that looks like a pyramid. I agree that it's an odd name.

--Mike

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Brandon Blackmoor wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 15:06 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> The Success Pyramid is basically a way to do test
> using accumulated success levels.

Oh, you just meant cumulative tasks. (Why would anyone call that a
"pyramid"?)

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05

------------------------------------

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• ... Ah, I see. The way I do it is just add the level of effect until it reaches some arbitrary amount. Kind regards, Brandon Blackmoor --
Message 9 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:56 -0700, "Mike Olson" <devlin1@...> wrote:
>
> I think it's because a Major Success counts as two Moderate
> Successes, and a Massive Success counts as three (four?)
> Major Successes, so... that looks like a pyramid. I agree
> that it's an odd name.

Ah, I see.

The way I do it is just add the level of effect until it reaches some
arbitrary amount.

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05
• I wanted to do it with ICONS at first but then I decided it would be pretty dull since they would all have had the same powers and not very high level (they
Message 10 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
I wanted to do it with ICONS at first but then I decided it would be pretty dull since they would all have had the same powers and not very high level (they just glide, they're fairly strong, resistant, claws and... that's it)

So instead i'm using a simplified version of the good old D6 system, called MiniSix.

Right now i'm fiddling with the MSH RPG slam rules because I think they're something lacking in ICONS. namely the possibility you had in Marvel to send flying like thirty meters away, or more, an enemy you had scored a "great slam" against, and not merely "one range away".

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
>
>
> You're welcome. And to think you just wanted to lurk... tsk :-)
>
> Incidentally was that Gargoyles (as in the animitated series) done in ICONS?
• Cool. I ve read through the MiniSix rules. It looks very good and sounds like a good for Gargoyles. To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com From: wee_ree_cat@yahoo.fr
Message 11 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
Cool. I've read through the MiniSix rules. It looks very good and sounds like a good for Gargoyles.

To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
From: wee_ree_cat@...
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 16:29:21 +0000
Subject: [icons-rpg] Re: How exactly does difficulty work ?

I wanted to do it with ICONS at first but then I decided it would be pretty dull since they would all have had the same powers and not very high level (they just glide, they're fairly strong, resistant, claws and... that's it)

So instead i'm using a simplified version of the good old D6 system, called MiniSix.

Right now i'm fiddling with the MSH RPG slam rules because I think they're something lacking in ICONS. namely the possibility you had in Marvel to send flying like thirty meters away, or more, an enemy you had scored a "great slam" against, and not merely "one range away".

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, Soylent Green <gsoylent@...> wrote:
>
>
> You're welcome. And to think you just wanted to lurk... tsk :-)
>
> Incidentally was that Gargoyles (as in the animitated series) done in ICONS?

• On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 18:50 +0100, Soylent Green ... I am not familiar with Mini6, but I am a big fan of d6. I have like three or four
Message 12 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 18:50 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> I've read through the MiniSix rules. It looks very good
> and sounds like a good for Gargoyles.

I am not familiar with Mini6, but I am a big fan of d6. I have like
three or four sets of the d6 Adventure/Fantasy/Space games.

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05
• It s a variant of the classic D6 available as a free download here http://www.antipaladingames.com/minisix.html To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com From:
Message 13 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011

To: icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com
From: bblackmoor@...
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:19:55 -0400
Subject: RE: [icons-rpg] Re: How exactly does difficulty work ?

On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 18:50 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> I've read through the MiniSix rules. It looks very good
> and sounds like a good for Gargoyles.

I am not familiar with Mini6, but I am a big fan of d6. I have like
three or four sets of the d6 Adventure/Fantasy/Space games.

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05

• On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 19:24 +0100, Soylent Green ... The d6 games are available for free from DriveThruRPG. Kind regards, Brandon
Message 14 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 19:24 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
wrote:
>
> It's a variant of the classic D6 available as a free download here

Kind regards,
Brandon Blackmoor

--
bblackmoor@...
2011-04-05
• Indeed, there s even a french edition that removed all redundant material in the three books and put all the rules in one book. I got it, too. But the MiniSix
Message 15 of 20 , Apr 5, 2011
Indeed, there's even a french edition that removed all redundant material in the three books and put all the rules in one book. I got it, too.

But the MiniSix system just struck me for being the kind of sipmification I wanted to do. I always struggled to reduce the number of attributes and was never satisfied with my own results. Wherehas MiniSix succeeded in my eyes.

I won't lie, knowing the full "real" D6 system helped me to understand all of the shortcuts they made in MiniSix, but still, I liked the dramatic reduction in the number of attributes.

The french gargoyles clan is so happy we can finally play as I promised years ago.

--- In icons-rpg@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Blackmoor" <bblackmoor@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 19:24 +0100, "Soylent Green" <gsoylent@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > It's a variant of the classic D6 available as a free download here