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Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

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  • Omesh Bharti
    Dear Dr. Sood,                      When you do PG for the love of it, you always enjoy and also get opportunities due to your innovations
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 26, 2011
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      Dear Dr. Sood,
                           When you do PG for the love of it, you always enjoy and also get opportunities due to your innovations but when you do it by chance, you just curse yourself for doing things you donot like. I have many examples of clinical people saying, they did a mistake and should have chosen public health.
      Regarding MCI not recognising public health courses, is because almost non of the members in MCI are from public health. In Himachal, we have young public health professionals working with the top decision makers and are able to take long term decisions and sustain them in the long run. The earlier problem of decision makers retiring before completion of projects is over now. I think Himachal is a good case study in studying how structural and non- hierarchial changes can affect decision making and bring health service deliveries to the door steps of people, many of them free of cost.
       
      Just some views....
      Thaks,
      Dr. Omesh Kumar Bharti
      M.B.B.S.,D.H.M.,M.A.E.(Epidemiology)

      OSD, Emergency Medical Response and Transport,

      Directorate of Health, Kasumpati,

      SHIMLA, Himachal Pradesh, India.
      +91-9418120302

      bhartiomesh@...; bhartiomesh@...

       

      --- On Thu, 27/10/11, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:

      From: Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...>
      Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
      To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, 27 October, 2011, 11:40 AM

       
      Friends,

      I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to MCI yourself and get the answer.

      With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream. The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF WORK. 

      In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not confer any privileges.

      Dr RK Sood
       
      (MAE) Epidemiologist
      District AIDS Programme Officer 
      Kangra at Dharamshala,  
      District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India


      Mobile: +91 9418064077




      On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:
       
      i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava


       
      On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
       
      Dear Dr Radha
      Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage". This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the only time it gains advantage.
      Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there is any possibility for next  one or two more generations. In India, decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities, but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. Even if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in long run this would be a better way to do so.     

      --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar <radharadha@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
      >
      > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by various
      > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
      > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is not

      > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody can
      > please answer my query.....
      >
      > Thank you very much
      >
      > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
      > Intern, GMC-Goa
      > radharadha@...
      > 09881202353
      >



      --
      Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
      Assistant Professor,
      Department of Community Medicine,
      College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
      Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
      Mobile: 9836444242


    • Omesh Bharti
      Dear Dr. Ritesh,                        Everyday I go to my dog bite clinic and vaccinate 20-30 patients, isn t it clinical medicine.
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 28, 2011
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        Dear Dr. Ritesh,
                               Everyday I go to my dog bite clinic and vaccinate 20-30 patients, isn't it clinical medicine. People from far off places come to our clinic as the treatment here is cheaper as we follow Intradermal method and only 370/- rupees are to be spent for entire course od more than 2200/- if we give IM.
        May be you would not believe, many medical specialists keep on enquiring from me regarding vaccination schedule to be folloed in different situations, including the ones when patient is unable to purchase immunoglobulins.
        Public health is not leser than clinical medicine and we should have faih on it and also the capacity to deliver .... and faith on our abilities....
         
        Thaks,

        Dr. Omesh Kumar Bharti
        M.B.B.S.,D.H.M.,M.A.E.(Epidemiology)

        OSD, Emergency Medical Response and Transport,

        Directorate of Health, Kasumpati,

        SHIMLA, Himachal Pradesh, India.
        +91-9418120302

        bhartiomesh@...; bhartiomesh@...

         

        --- On Fri, 28/10/11, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:

        From: Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...>
        Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
        To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, 28 October, 2011, 5:55 PM

         
        its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
        i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
        these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.

        On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
         
        Dear All
        I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
        But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
        A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      

        --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:
        >
        > Friends,
        >
        > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
        > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
        > MCI yourself and get the answer.
        >
        > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
        > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
        > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
        > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
        > WORK.
        >
        > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
        > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
        > confer any privileges.
        >
        > Dr RK Sood
        >
        > (MAE) Epidemiologist
        > District AIDS Programme Officer
        > Kangra at Dharamshala,
        > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
        >
        > Mobile: +91 9418064077
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...wrote:
        >
        > > **

        > >
        > >
        > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
        > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
        > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in

        > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
        > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
        > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
        > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
        > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
        > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
        > >> only time it gains advantage.*
        > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change

        > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
        > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
        > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
        > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
        > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
        > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
        > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
        > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
        > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
        > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
        > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *

        > >>
        > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
        > >> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
        > >> >
        > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
        > >> various
        > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
        > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
        > >> not
        > >>
        > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
        > >> can
        > >> > please answer my query.....
        > >> >
        > >> > Thank you very much
        > >> >
        > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
        > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
        > >> > radharadha@
        > >> > 09881202353
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > 
        > >
        > >
        >



        --
        Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
        Assistant Professor,
        Department of Community Medicine,
        College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
        Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
        Mobile: 9836444242

      • Priyanka Singh
        Dear all,Thanks Dr Sood for your encouraging words .                                                                   I
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 28, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear all,
          Thanks Dr Sood for your encouraging words .                                                                   I personally feel most people dont understand fully what community medicine/Public Health is all about and what is the role of public health specialist in community.So those who are interested in this field dont get misguided by any false information and end of day whatever be your branch only those who are committed and have an edge would succeed.

          Dr Priyanka Singh,
          Dept. of Community Medicine,
          Nalanda Medical College,Patna

          --- On Sat, 29/10/11, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:

          From: Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...>
          Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
          To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, 29 October, 2011, 2:32 AM

           

          DEAR ALL,

          WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.

          DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!

          FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.

          IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
          I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.

          Dr RK Sood

          Read this: "What is Public Health?" 



          On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:
           

          its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.

          i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
          these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.


          On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
           

          Dear All
          I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
          But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
          A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      

          --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:
          >
          > Friends,
          >
          > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
          > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
          > MCI yourself and get the answer.
          >
          > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
          > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
          > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
          > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
          > WORK.
          >
          > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
          > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
          > confer any privileges.
          >
          > Dr RK Sood
          >
          > (MAE) Epidemiologist
          > District AIDS Programme Officer
          > Kangra at Dharamshala,
          > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
          >
          > Mobile: +91 9418064077
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...wrote:
          >
          > > **

          > >
          > >
          > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
          > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
          > >
          > >> **
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
          > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in

          > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
          > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
          > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
          > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
          > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
          > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
          > >> only time it gains advantage.*
          > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change

          > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
          > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
          > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
          > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
          > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
          > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
          > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
          > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
          > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
          > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
          > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *

          > >>
          > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
          > >> wrote:
          > >> >
          > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
          > >> >
          > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
          > >> various
          > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
          > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
          > >> not
          > >>
          > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
          > >> can
          > >> > please answer my query.....
          > >> >
          > >> > Thank you very much
          > >> >
          > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
          > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
          > >> > radharadha@
          > >> > 09881202353
          > >> >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > 
          > >
          > >
          >




          --
          Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
          Assistant Professor,
          Department of Community Medicine,
          College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
          Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
          Mobile: 9836444242


        • Ritesh Singh
          i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best. On Sun, Oct 30, 2011
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best.

            On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Dr Vikram gupta <dr_vikramgupta@...> wrote:
             

            Respected all,
                    For increasing the clinical experience,  MCI latest guidelines has directed for mandatory posting of CM/SPM    PGs in departments of Gynae / Paeds/ Surgery / Medicine etc. for approx. 6 month in tenure of 3 years.  I posted them at Facebook group named "Modern Community Medicine". (1 can like and see) Thankfully some reputed medical colleges have started to follow those guidelines.
               My ex-department professor used to say ki "Community Medicine people have themselves put their stethoscope down .... they dont wanna see patients"
            UTHC/ RTHC posting are the places to get clinical touch .. It again depends on whether PGs is being posted or if yes, what are facilities provided there at RTHC/ UTHC. as most Medical Colleges administration consider these two as economic burden for them ...rest u can guess
            ..In end its responsibility of both the Professors and the PGs ...if PGs wanna learn, then bosses dont allow them (at maximum colleges) to go beoynd their calling distance as CM/SPM PG has turned as clerkship to the boss at maximum places where u are More like Bonded-Labour (Make tea/ Type Letter/ Deposit Bills/ Do research n put boss name/ book conferences ... blah ..blah ...blah ...)   for 3 years

            ..No offense to any1 please..
            ..Just a thought ..

            ..Lets make India Better

            Dr. Vikram Gupta
            Assistant Professor,
            DMC&H, Ludhiana, Punjab





            From: Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...>
            To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 8:02 AM
            Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

             
            DEAR ALL,

            WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.

            DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!

            FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.

            IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
            I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.

            Dr RK Sood

            Read this: "What is Public Health?" 



            On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:
             
            its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
            i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
            these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.


            On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
             
            Dear All
            I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
            But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
            A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      

            --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:
            >
            > Friends,
            >
            > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
            > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
            > MCI yourself and get the answer.
            >
            > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
            > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
            > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
            > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
            > WORK.
            >
            > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
            > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
            > confer any privileges.
            >
            > Dr RK Sood
            >
            > (MAE) Epidemiologist
            > District AIDS Programme Officer
            > Kangra at Dharamshala,
            > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
            >
            > Mobile: +91 9418064077
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...wrote:
            >
            > > **

            > >
            > >
            > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
            > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
            > >
            > >> **
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
            > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in

            > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
            > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
            > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
            > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
            > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
            > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
            > >> only time it gains advantage.*
            > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change

            > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
            > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
            > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
            > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
            > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
            > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
            > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
            > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
            > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
            > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
            > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *

            > >>
            > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
            > >> wrote:
            > >> >
            > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
            > >> >
            > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
            > >> various
            > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
            > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
            > >> not
            > >>
            > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
            > >> can
            > >> > please answer my query.....
            > >> >
            > >> > Thank you very much
            > >> >
            > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
            > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
            > >> > radharadha@
            > >> > 09881202353
            > >> >
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > 
            > >
            > >
            >



            --
            Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
            Assistant Professor,
            Department of Community Medicine,
            College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
            Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
            Mobile: 9836444242







            --
            Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
            Assistant Professor,
            Department of Community Medicine,
            College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
            Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
            Mobile: 9836444242

          • PRASAD PORE
            can u provide the link of guidelines. i think posting are useful. they have to see the patients from community medicine aspect. even i feel hospital
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              can u provide the link of guidelines.
              i think posting are useful. they have to see the patients from community medicine aspect. even i feel hospital administration and posting to various govt functionaries and NGos even will be helpful for the PGs.
               
              Dr. Prasad Pore
              Pune
              Mobile No. 9921073540
              From: Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...>
              To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 12:45
              Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

               
              i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best.

              On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Dr Vikram gupta <dr_vikramgupta@...> wrote:
               
              Respected all,
                      For increasing the clinical experience,  MCI latest guidelines has directed for mandatory posting of CM/SPM    PGs in departments of Gynae / Paeds/ Surgery / Medicine etc. for approx. 6 month in tenure of 3 years.  I posted them at Facebook group named "Modern Community Medicine". (1 can like and see) Thankfully some reputed medical colleges have started to follow those guidelines.
                 My ex-department professor used to say ki "Community Medicine people have themselves put their stethoscope down .... they dont wanna see patients"
              UTHC/ RTHC posting are the places to get clinical touch .. It again depends on whether PGs is being posted or if yes, what are facilities provided there at RTHC/ UTHC. as most Medical Colleges administration consider these two as economic burden for them ...rest u can guess
              ..In end its responsibility of both the Professors and the PGs ...if PGs wanna learn, then bosses dont allow them (at maximum colleges) to go beoynd their calling distance as CM/SPM PG has turned as clerkship to the boss at maximum places where u are More like Bonded-Labour (Make tea/ Type Letter/ Deposit Bills/ Do research n put boss name/ book conferences ... blah ..blah ...blah ...)   for 3 years

              ..No offense to any1 please..
              ..Just a thought ..

              ..Lets make India Better

              Dr. Vikram Gupta
              Assistant Professor,
              DMC&H, Ludhiana, Punjab




              From: Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...>
              To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 8:02 AM
              Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

               
              DEAR ALL,

              WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.

              DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!

              FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.

              IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
              I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.

              Dr RK Sood

              Read this: "What is Public Health?" 



              On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:
               
              its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
              i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
              these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.


              On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
               
              Dear All
              I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
              But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
              A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      

              --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:
              >
              > Friends,
              >
              > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
              > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
              > MCI yourself and get the answer.
              >
              > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
              > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
              > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
              > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
              > WORK.
              >
              > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
              > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
              > confer any privileges.
              >
              > Dr RK Sood
              >
              > (MAE) Epidemiologist
              > District AIDS Programme Officer
              > Kangra at Dharamshala,
              > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
              >
              > Mobile: +91 9418064077
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...wrote:
              >
              > > **

              > >
              > >
              > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
              > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
              > >
              > >> **
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
              > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in

              > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
              > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
              > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
              > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
              > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
              > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
              > >> only time it gains advantage.*
              > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change

              > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
              > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
              > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
              > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
              > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
              > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
              > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
              > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
              > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
              > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
              > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *

              > >>
              > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
              > >> wrote:
              > >> >
              > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
              > >> >
              > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
              > >> various
              > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
              > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
              > >> not
              > >>
              > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
              > >> can
              > >> > please answer my query.....
              > >> >
              > >> > Thank you very much
              > >> >
              > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
              > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
              > >> > radharadha@
              > >> > 09881202353
              > >> >
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > 
              > >
              > >
              >



              --
              Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
              Assistant Professor,
              Department of Community Medicine,
              College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
              Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
              Mobile: 9836444242







              --
              Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
              Assistant Professor,
              Department of Community Medicine,
              College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
              Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
              Mobile: 9836444242



            • neeti goswami
              Respected all,   This seems to be a very difficult situation.... we don t possess clinical skills but we want to be a part of clinical discipline. .. we
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 3, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Respected all,
                 
                This seems to be a very difficult situation.... we don't possess clinical skills but we want to be a part of clinical discipline. .. we don't want to learn clinical skills too as we are afraid our vulnerable position will be exploited ...
                 
                Are we not trying to do an age old impossible thing ??...trying to learn swimming by sitting on river bank and at the same time debating and vouching our status as the most committed swimmers... 
                 
                Dr. Neeti R. Goswami
                Assistant Director ( Public Health )
                Divison of Epidemiology & Parasitic Diseases
                National Centre for Disease Control
                New Delhi
                09213944601


                --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:

                From: Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...>
                Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 12:45 PM

                 
                i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best.

                On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Dr Vikram gupta <dr_vikramgupta@...> wrote:
                 
                Respected all,
                        For increasing the clinical experience,  MCI latest guidelines has directed for mandatory posting of CM/SPM    PGs in departments of Gynae / Paeds/ Surgery / Medicine etc. for approx. 6 month in tenure of 3 years.  I posted them at Facebook group named "Modern Community Medicine". (1 can like and see) Thankfully some reputed medical colleges have started to follow those guidelines.
                   My ex-department professor used to say ki "Community Medicine people have themselves put their stethoscope down .... they dont wanna see patients"
                UTHC/ RTHC posting are the places to get clinical touch .. It again depends on whether PGs is being posted or if yes, what are facilities provided there at RTHC/ UTHC. as most Medical Colleges administration consider these two as economic burden for them ...rest u can guess
                ..In end its responsibility of both the Professors and the PGs ...if PGs wanna learn, then bosses dont allow them (at maximum colleges) to go beoynd their calling distance as CM/SPM PG has turned as clerkship to the boss at maximum places where u are More like Bonded-Labour (Make tea/ Type Letter/ Deposit Bills/ Do research n put boss name/ book conferences ... blah ..blah ...blah ...)   for 3 years

                ..No offense to any1 please..
                ..Just a thought ..

                ..Lets make India Better

                Dr. Vikram Gupta
                Assistant Professor,
                DMC&H, Ludhiana, Punjab





                From: Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...>
                To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 8:02 AM
                Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

                 
                DEAR ALL,

                WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.

                DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!

                FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.

                IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
                I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.

                Dr RK Sood

                Read this: "What is Public Health?" 



                On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:
                 
                its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
                i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
                these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.


                On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
                 
                Dear All
                I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
                But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
                A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      

                --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood <drrksood@...> wrote:
                >
                > Friends,
                >
                > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
                > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
                > MCI yourself and get the answer.
                >
                > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
                > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
                > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
                > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
                > WORK.
                >
                > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
                > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
                > confer any privileges.
                >
                > Dr RK Sood
                >
                > (MAE) Epidemiologist
                > District AIDS Programme Officer
                > Kangra at Dharamshala,
                > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
                >
                > Mobile: +91 9418064077
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...wrote:
                >
                > > **

                > >
                > >
                > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
                > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
                > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in

                > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
                > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
                > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
                > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
                > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
                > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
                > >> only time it gains advantage.*
                > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change

                > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
                > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
                > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
                > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
                > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
                > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
                > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
                > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
                > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
                > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
                > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *

                > >>
                > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
                > >> wrote:
                > >> >
                > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
                > >> >
                > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
                > >> various
                > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
                > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
                > >> not
                > >>
                > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
                > >> can
                > >> > please answer my query.....
                > >> >
                > >> > Thank you very much
                > >> >
                > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
                > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
                > >> > radharadha@
                > >> > 09881202353
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > 
                > >
                > >
                >



                --
                Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                Assistant Professor,
                Department of Community Medicine,
                College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                Mobile: 9836444242







                --
                Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                Assistant Professor,
                Department of Community Medicine,
                College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                Mobile: 9836444242

              • Aakash Shrivastava
                Dear all As I note that this conversation entails a number of young and brilliant public health teachers and professionals, I decided to share some of my views
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 3, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear all

                  As I note that this conversation entails a number of young and brilliant public health teachers and professionals, I decided to share some of my views for them. 

                  1. Public Health is not and should never be considered a clinical discipline. It is a discipline that goes much much beyond the microscope of a physician. It covers populations at regional to national to global scale. No one sitting in a clinic can understand anything of what happens at such a large scale. It is a totally different dynamics. What happens to one case is not what happens to disease at population scale. What happens at individual level was taught in M.B.B.S. Enough, now move ahead to population level in post-graduation and later life, and I assure this life will be too short to even unearth even a minuscule of this knowledge. [When I was explaining an intern in my former posts, I was advising her from perspective of Social Status ! That has nothing to do with our discipline, it was about a social issue of Indian System, where orthodoxy prevails in who makes decisions]

                  2. A quick glance of PG curriculum for SPM/CM posted my Dr Vikram Gupta a few days before in this forum tells me that our curriculum makers are confusing "Family Physicians" and "Hospital Administrators" to "Public Health". These are not skills that SPM candidate should be bothered about. Insertion of IUCD is something that all licensed to practice medicine should know, not a SPM PG only. How to handle biomedical waste is again what all qualified to practice clinical medicine should know. May I ask have you read that a post of Hospital Administrator is only allowed to SPM qualified candidate ? or a Geriatric clinic needs a SPM qualified candidate ? At the best there are separate PG courses for these disciplines. 

                  3. "Familiarization" is a right word. And that is all a SPM PG should do in respect to what happens in other disciplines. And this limits not only to some medical disciplines. He should "familiarize" on sociology, anthropology, psychology, economics, developmental sciences, mathematical sciences, biological sciences, information sciences, environmental sciences, geological sciences etc etc.....an endless list. He is a large scale thinker. Though a clinical physician may not be bothered by global warming, a Public Health professional is ! So do you think he should be wasting his time in clinics ?????    


                  --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, neeti goswami <drneeti2003@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Respected all,
                  >  
                  > This seems to be a very difficult situation.... we don't possess clinical skills but we want to be a part of clinical discipline. .. we don't want to learn clinical skills too as we are afraid our vulnerable position will be exploited ...
                  >  
                  > Are we not trying to do an age old impossible thing ??...trying to learn swimming by sitting on river bank and at the same time debating and vouching our status as the most committed swimmers... 
                  >  
                  > Dr. Neeti R. Goswami
                  > Assistant Director ( Public Health )
                  > Divison of Epidemiology & Parasitic Diseases
                  > National Centre for Disease Control
                  > New Delhi
                  > 09213944601
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...
                  > Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                  > To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Received: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 12:45 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best.
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Dr Vikram gupta dr_vikramgupta@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Respected all,
                  >         For increasing the clinical experience,  MCI latest guidelines has directed for mandatory posting of CM/SPM    PGs in departments of Gynae / Paeds/ Surgery / Medicine etc. for approx. 6 month in tenure of 3 years.  I posted them at Facebook group named "Modern Community Medicine". (1 can like and see) Thankfully some reputed medical colleges have started to follow those guidelines.
                  >    My ex-department professor used to say ki "Community Medicine people have themselves put their stethoscope down .... they dont wanna see patients"
                  > UTHC/ RTHC posting are the places to get clinical touch .. It again depends on whether PGs is being posted or if yes, what are facilities provided there at RTHC/ UTHC. as most Medical Colleges administration consider these two as economic burden for them ...rest u can guess
                  > ..In end its responsibility of both the Professors and the PGs ...if PGs wanna learn, then bosses dont allow them (at maximum colleges) to go beoynd their calling distance as CM/SPM PG has turned as clerkship to the boss at maximum places where u are More like Bonded-Labour (Make tea/ Type Letter/ Deposit Bills/ Do research n put boss name/ book conferences ... blah ..blah ...blah ...)   for 3 years
                  >
                  >
                  > ..No offense to any1 please..
                  > ..Just a thought ..
                  >
                  > ..Lets make India Better
                  >
                  >
                  > Dr. Vikram Gupta
                  > Assistant Professor,
                  > DMC&H, Ludhiana, Punjab
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Dr RK Sood drrksood@...
                  > To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 8:02 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > DEAR ALL,
                  >
                  > WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.
                  >
                  >
                  > DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!
                  >
                  >
                  > FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.
                  >
                  >
                  > IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
                  > I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dr RK Sood
                  >
                  > Read this: "What is Public Health?" 
                  > AND DISCOVER YOUR POTENTIAL
                  > http://www.whatispublichealth.org/what/index.html
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
                  > i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
                  > these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear All
                  > I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
                  > But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
                  > A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      
                  >
                  > --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood drrksood@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Friends,
                  > >
                  > > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
                  > > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
                  > > MCI yourself and get the answer.
                  > >
                  > > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
                  > > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
                  > > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
                  > > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
                  > > WORK.
                  > >
                  > > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
                  > > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
                  > > confer any privileges.
                  > >
                  > > Dr RK Sood
                  > >
                  > > (MAE) Epidemiologist
                  > > District AIDS Programme Officer
                  > > Kangra at Dharamshala,
                  > > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
                  > >
                  > > Mobile: +91 9418064077
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
                  > > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >> **
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
                  > > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in
                  >
                  > > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
                  > > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
                  > > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
                  > > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
                  > > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
                  > > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
                  > > >> only time it gains advantage.*
                  > > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change
                  >
                  > > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
                  > > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
                  > > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
                  > > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
                  > > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
                  > > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
                  > > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
                  > > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
                  > > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
                  > > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
                  > > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *
                  >
                  > > >>
                  > > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
                  >
                  > > >> wrote:
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
                  > > >> various
                  > > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
                  > > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
                  > > >> not
                  > > >>
                  > > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
                  > > >> can
                  > > >> > please answer my query.....
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Thank you very much
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
                  > > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
                  > > >> > radharadha@
                  >
                  > > >> > 09881202353
                  > > >> >
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --
                  > > > 
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                  > Assistant Professor,
                  > Department of Community Medicine,
                  > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                  > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                  > Mobile: 9836444242
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                  > Assistant Professor,
                  > Department of Community Medicine,
                  > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                  > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                  > Mobile: 9836444242
                  >
                • PRASAD PORE
                  there is still confusion in our mind regarding the subject. we have 2 national organisations IAPSM & IPHA. most of the people are members of both. we have been
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 3, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    there is still confusion in our mind regarding the subject.
                    we have 2 national organisations IAPSM & IPHA. most of the people are members of both.
                    we have been called by many names like PSM, SPM, Community Medicine, Community health, Public health etc.
                    its high time for all of us to think what we are and what we want the PG student to become.
                    MCI considers person with MD community medicine eligible for MD in hospital administration teaching also.
                     
                    Now MPH, MBA in health care etc. courses are coming up even for non medicos.These people are our future competitors. I heard that person with MPH is preferred over MBBS, DPH because MPH is masters degree and DPH is diploma in abroad.
                     
                     I think probably only advantage we have is medical background (MBBS degree) which most of us forget because of non contact with patients.
                     
                    so i request senior people to guide us.
                     
                    Dr. Prasad Pore
                    Pune
                    Mobile No. 9921073540
                    From: Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...>
                    To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011, 3:57
                    Subject: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

                     
                    Dear all

                    As I note that this conversation entails a number of young and brilliant public health teachers and professionals, I decided to share some of my views for them. 

                    1. Public Health is not and should never be considered a clinical discipline. It is a discipline that goes much much beyond the microscope of a physician. It covers populations at regional to national to global scale. No one sitting in a clinic can understand anything of what happens at such a large scale. It is a totally different dynamics. What happens to one case is not what happens to disease at population scale. What happens at individual level was taught in M.B.B.S. Enough, now move ahead to population level in post-graduation and later life, and I assure this life will be too short to even unearth even a minuscule of this knowledge. [When I was explaining an intern in my former posts, I was advising her from perspective of Social Status ! That has nothing to do with our discipline, it was about a social issue of Indian System, where orthodoxy prevails in who makes decisions]

                    2. A quick glance of PG curriculum for SPM/CM posted my Dr Vikram Gupta a few days before in this forum tells me that our curriculum makers are confusing "Family Physicians" and "Hospital Administrators" to "Public Health". These are not skills that SPM candidate should be bothered about. Insertion of IUCD is something that all licensed to practice medicine should know, not a SPM PG only. How to handle biomedical waste is again what all qualified to practice clinical medicine should know. May I ask have you read that a post of Hospital Administrator is only allowed to SPM qualified candidate ? or a Geriatric clinic needs a SPM qualified candidate ? At the best there are separate PG courses for these disciplines. 

                    3. "Familiarization" is a right word. And that is all a SPM PG should do in respect to what happens in other disciplines. And this limits not only to some medical disciplines. He should "familiarize" on sociology, anthropology, psychology, economics, developmental sciences, mathematical sciences, biological sciences, information sciences, environmental sciences, geological sciences etc etc.....an endless list. He is a large scale thinker. Though a clinical physician may not be bothered by global warming, a Public Health professional is ! So do you think he should be wasting his time in clinics ?????    


                    --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, neeti goswami <drneeti2003@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Respected all,
                    >  
                    > This seems to be a very difficult situation.... we don't possess clinical skills but we want to be a part of clinical discipline. .. we don't want to learn clinical skills too as we are afraid our vulnerable position will be exploited ...
                    >  
                    > Are we not trying to do an age old impossible thing ??...trying to learn swimming by sitting on river bank and at the same time debating and vouching our status as the most committed swimmers... 
                    >  
                    > Dr. Neeti R. Goswami
                    > Assistant Director ( Public Health )
                    > Divison of Epidemiology & Parasitic Diseases
                    > National Centre for Disease Control
                    > New Delhi
                    > 09213944601
                    >
                    > --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...
                    > Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                    > To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Received: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 12:45 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best.
                    >
                    >
                    > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Dr Vikram gupta dr_vikramgupta@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Respected all,
                    >         For increasing the clinical experience,  MCI latest guidelines has directed for mandatory posting of CM/SPM    PGs in departments of Gynae / Paeds/ Surgery / Medicine etc. for approx. 6 month in tenure of 3 years.  I posted them at Facebook group named "Modern Community Medicine". (1 can like and see) Thankfully some reputed medical colleges have started to follow those guidelines.
                    >    My ex-department professor used to say ki "Community Medicine people have themselves put their stethoscope down .... they dont wanna see patients"
                    > UTHC/ RTHC posting are the places to get clinical touch .. It again depends on whether PGs is being posted or if yes, what are facilities provided there at RTHC/ UTHC. as most Medical Colleges administration consider these two as economic burden for them ...rest u can guess
                    > ..In end its responsibility of both the Professors and the PGs ...if PGs wanna learn, then bosses dont allow them (at maximum colleges) to go beoynd their calling distance as CM/SPM PG has turned as clerkship to the boss at maximum places where u are More like Bonded-Labour (Make tea/ Type Letter/ Deposit Bills/ Do research n put boss name/ book conferences ... blah ..blah ...blah ...)   for 3 years
                    >
                    >
                    > ..No offense to any1 please..
                    > ..Just a thought ..
                    >
                    > ..Lets make India Better
                    >
                    >
                    > Dr. Vikram Gupta
                    > Assistant Professor,
                    > DMC&H, Ludhiana, Punjab
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Dr RK Sood drrksood@...
                    > To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 8:02 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > DEAR ALL,
                    >
                    > WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.
                    >
                    >
                    > DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!
                    >
                    >
                    > FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.
                    >
                    >
                    > IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
                    > I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dr RK Sood
                    >
                    > Read this: "What is Public Health?" 
                    > AND DISCOVER YOUR POTENTIAL
                    > http://www.whatispublichealth.org/what/index.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
                    > i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
                    > these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear All
                    > I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
                    > But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
                    > A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      
                    >
                    > --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood drrksood@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Friends,
                    > >
                    > > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
                    > > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
                    > > MCI yourself and get the answer.
                    > >
                    > > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
                    > > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
                    > > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
                    > > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
                    > > WORK.
                    > >
                    > > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
                    > > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
                    > > confer any privileges.
                    > >
                    > > Dr RK Sood
                    > >
                    > > (MAE) Epidemiologist
                    > > District AIDS Programme Officer
                    > > Kangra at Dharamshala,
                    > > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
                    > >
                    > > Mobile: +91 9418064077
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...:
                    > >
                    > > > **
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
                    > > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >> **
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
                    > > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in
                    >
                    > > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
                    > > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
                    > > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
                    > > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
                    > > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
                    > > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
                    > > >> only time it gains advantage.*
                    > > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change
                    >
                    > > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
                    > > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
                    > > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
                    > > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
                    > > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
                    > > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
                    > > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
                    > > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
                    > > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
                    > > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
                    > > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *
                    >
                    > > >>
                    > > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
                    >
                    > > >> wrote:
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
                    > > >> various
                    > > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
                    > > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
                    > > >> not
                    > > >>
                    > > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
                    > > >> can
                    > > >> > please answer my query.....
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > Thank you very much
                    > > >> >
                    > > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
                    > > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
                    > > >> > radharadha@
                    >
                    > > >> > 09881202353
                    > > >> >
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > 
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                    > Assistant Professor,
                    > Department of Community Medicine,
                    > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                    > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                    > Mobile: 9836444242
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                    > Assistant Professor,
                    > Department of Community Medicine,
                    > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                    > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                    > Mobile: 9836444242
                    >


                  • aakash shrivastava
                    *To the comment of Dr Prasad Pore, I have to add* * * *What should matter is the ethos that we carry...all the names suggested so far have words social ,
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 4, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      To the comment of Dr Prasad Pore, I have to add

                      What should matter is the ethos that we carry...all the names suggested so far have words  "social"," preventive", "community", "public" "health"
                      Now would anyone sit down and ponder what these words mean to him or her...whatever they mean to them is what they will become. "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he". 
                      I do not agree to be guided by what MCI says. It is just a license regulating body !

                      No, as a medical professional we are only qualified in one background discipline "medicine" and so can not be the solo claimers of "Public Health". We are just too limited in our knowledge. We know too little of  molecular sciences, evolutionary sciences etc etc. A person who spent his graduation learning how "mapping" and "global positioning system" works, may do better marvels that will "prevent" diseases in ways that our knowledge of "medical science" would fail to work. So a jack of all trade is more welcome here than a man with just a stethoscope !

                      Just as Engineers compete with non-Engineers for management positions, we should also be ready to stop claiming that medicos are a superior race ! We have our background of a discipline and that helps us to understand some-things better. That is all.  
                        

                      On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 5:05 AM, PRASAD PORE <prasad_pore@...> wrote:
                       

                      there is still confusion in our mind regarding the subject.
                      we have 2 national organisations IAPSM & IPHA. most of the people are members of both.
                      we have been called by many names like PSM, SPM, Community Medicine, Community health, Public health etc.
                      its high time for all of us to think what we are and what we want the PG student to become.
                      MCI considers person with MD community medicine eligible for MD in hospital administration teaching also.
                       
                      Now MPH, MBA in health care etc. courses are coming up even for non medicos.These people are our future competitors. I heard that person with MPH is preferred over MBBS, DPH because MPH is masters degree and DPH is diploma in abroad.
                       
                       I think probably only advantage we have is medical background (MBBS degree) which most of us forget because of non contact with patients.
                       
                      so i request senior people to guide us.
                       
                      Dr. Prasad Pore
                      Pune
                      Mobile No. 9921073540
                      From: Aakash Shrivastava <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...>
                      To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011, 3:57
                      Subject: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?

                       
                      Dear all

                      As I note that this conversation entails a number of young and brilliant public health teachers and professionals, I decided to share some of my views for them. 

                      1. Public Health is not and should never be considered a clinical discipline. It is a discipline that goes much much beyond the microscope of a physician. It covers populations at regional to national to global scale. No one sitting in a clinic can understand anything of what happens at such a large scale. It is a totally different dynamics. What happens to one case is not what happens to disease at population scale. What happens at individual level was taught in M.B.B.S. Enough, now move ahead to population level in post-graduation and later life, and I assure this life will be too short to even unearth even a minuscule of this knowledge. [When I was explaining an intern in my former posts, I was advising her from perspective of Social Status ! That has nothing to do with our discipline, it was about a social issue of Indian System, where orthodoxy prevails in who makes decisions]

                      2. A quick glance of PG curriculum for SPM/CM posted my Dr Vikram Gupta a few days before in this forum tells me that our curriculum makers are confusing "Family Physicians" and "Hospital Administrators" to "Public Health". These are not skills that SPM candidate should be bothered about. Insertion of IUCD is something that all licensed to practice medicine should know, not a SPM PG only. How to handle biomedical waste is again what all qualified to practice clinical medicine should know. May I ask have you read that a post of Hospital Administrator is only allowed to SPM qualified candidate ? or a Geriatric clinic needs a SPM qualified candidate ? At the best there are separate PG courses for these disciplines. 

                      3. "Familiarization" is a right word. And that is all a SPM PG should do in respect to what happens in other disciplines. And this limits not only to some medical disciplines. He should "familiarize" on sociology, anthropology, psychology, economics, developmental sciences, mathematical sciences, biological sciences, information sciences, environmental sciences, geological sciences etc etc.....an endless list. He is a large scale thinker. Though a clinical physician may not be bothered by global warming, a Public Health professional is ! So do you think he should be wasting his time in clinics ?????    


                      --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, neeti goswami <drneeti2003@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Respected all,
                      >  
                      > This seems to be a very difficult situation.... we don't possess clinical skills but we want to be a part of clinical discipline. .. we don't want to learn clinical skills too as we are afraid our vulnerable position will be exploited ...
                      >  
                      > Are we not trying to do an age old impossible thing ??...trying to learn swimming by sitting on river bank and at the same time debating and vouching our status as the most committed swimmers... 
                      >  
                      > Dr. Neeti R. Goswami
                      > Assistant Director ( Public Health )
                      > Divison of Epidemiology & Parasitic Diseases
                      > National Centre for Disease Control
                      > New Delhi
                      > 09213944601
                      >
                      > --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...
                      > Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                      > To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Received: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 12:45 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > i think posting PGs of CM in OBG, med, surg, pediatrics will do more harm than good. they will be treated as experienced intern as best.
                      >
                      >
                      > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Dr Vikram gupta dr_vikramgupta@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Respected all,
                      >         For increasing the clinical experience,  MCI latest guidelines has directed for mandatory posting of CM/SPM    PGs in departments of Gynae / Paeds/ Surgery / Medicine etc. for approx. 6 month in tenure of 3 years.  I posted them at Facebook group named "Modern Community Medicine". (1 can like and see) Thankfully some reputed medical colleges have started to follow those guidelines.
                      >    My ex-department professor used to say ki "Community Medicine people have themselves put their stethoscope down .... they dont wanna see patients"
                      > UTHC/ RTHC posting are the places to get clinical touch .. It again depends on whether PGs is being posted or if yes, what are facilities provided there at RTHC/ UTHC. as most Medical Colleges administration consider these two as economic burden for them ...rest u can guess
                      > ..In end its responsibility of both the Professors and the PGs ...if PGs wanna learn, then bosses dont allow them (at maximum colleges) to go beoynd their calling distance as CM/SPM PG has turned as clerkship to the boss at maximum places where u are More like Bonded-Labour (Make tea/ Type Letter/ Deposit Bills/ Do research n put boss name/ book conferences ... blah ..blah ...blah ...)   for 3 years
                      >
                      >
                      > ..No offense to any1 please..
                      > ..Just a thought ..
                      >
                      > ..Lets make India Better
                      >
                      >
                      > Dr. Vikram Gupta
                      > Assistant Professor,
                      > DMC&H, Ludhiana, Punjab
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Dr RK Sood drrksood@...
                      > To: iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 8:02 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [iapsm_youthmembers] Re: MCI recognition, a must?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > DEAR ALL,
                      >
                      > WHAT IS THE "PRIVILEGED". WHY DOES SOMEBODY FEEL FOOLED AND FRUSTRATED? DO YOU NEED TO BEAT DRUMS, YOUR WORK WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF. ENGAGE ACTIVELY. WRITE A BOOK, DO RESEARCH.
                      >
                      >
                      > DO HAVE SOME VISION. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE EXPOSURE OF CONFERENCES WITH COMMUNITY MEDICINE AND PUBLICATIONS IS FAR MORE, IT RATHER DEPENDS ON WHO TAUGHT YOU AND HOW MOTIVATED AND DEMOTIVATED S/HE WAS!
                      >
                      >
                      > FOR A CHANGE, STOP FEELING ASHAMED, GLAM UP AND MARKET THE DISCIPLINE TO YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS. DON'T COMPARE WITH OTHERS, EXCEL IN YOURSELF AND BECOME AN EXAMPLE.
                      >
                      >
                      > IF THERE IS SWINE FLU, WILL PLANES FLY FROM INDIA TO PAKISTAN, 
                      > I DEAL WITH SARS PREVENTION TOO.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dr RK Sood
                      >
                      > Read this: "What is Public Health?" 
                      > AND DISCOVER YOUR POTENTIAL
                      > http://www.whatispublichealth.org/what/index.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > its true that MCI has given the Community Medicine the "Privileged" status of clinical discipline. but we all know how much we do clinical medicine. it looks good just on paper and telling our friends of other branches. i think we should stop yelling that it is a clinical discipline and accept the truth. beating the drums about community medicine as clinical discipline is fooling ourselves and making fun of ourselves in front of others.
                      > i know some opportunistic community medicine people who when confronted with disgruntled patient says "we do not see patients, thats not our fault"!!!! otherwise they say they belong to a clinical discipline 
                      > these are my personal opinions. i am sorry of it has hurt anybody.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Aakash Shrivastava dr.aakash.shrivastava@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dear All
                      > I agree with Dr Sood to the point he is trying to make upon how "individuals" and "regions" make difference. I have heard of extraordinary achievements made by Kangra district and some professionals. 
                      > But when we are discussing "population health", we are not discussing "individuals' health" . We differentiate by not trying to generalize few "case studies" to epidemiology of "marginalization". Just because my wife has no issues, I do not conclude that there is no "marginalization" against female gender in modern India. A social issue is usually not measurable and reading documentations (RTI answer by MCI) are no way to understand them. DNB by Indian Supreme Court documentations has the same status as MD degree, but you only need to ask a few to know whether these professionals have been given the equal status.
                      > A fundamental issue in "inequity" is that people perceive it not based on "absolute values" but "relative values". So this reminds me of an interesting incident to which I was a witness. An army officer has arrested a Nagaland rebel and asks him, why the heck are you doing militancy ? Tell me, I have lived here for long and can understand your issues. The Rebel smilingly replies, "to understand us, you need to have the face of a Naga" !!!      
                      >
                      > --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Dr RK Sood drrksood@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Friends,
                      > >
                      > > I disagree with the Terms "clinical discipline, marginalisation". As per MCI
                      > > Community Medicine is a clinical discipline. If you are amazed, do a RTI to
                      > > MCI yourself and get the answer.
                      > >
                      > > With the emergence of public health, more and more people are opting for
                      > > public health by first choice and good talent is coming into this stream.
                      > > The choice of MD and MPH is rather difficult, but as community medicine, I
                      > > stand by my conviction that if you got the talent, there is NO DEARTH OF
                      > > WORK.
                      > >
                      > > In HP, the trained professional are put to planning post and other public
                      > > health assignments if they prove the worth. However, a mere degree does not
                      > > confer any privileges.
                      > >
                      > > Dr RK Sood
                      > >
                      > > (MAE) Epidemiologist
                      > > District AIDS Programme Officer
                      > > Kangra at Dharamshala,
                      > > District Kangra Himachal Pradesh, India
                      > >
                      > > Mobile: +91 9418064077
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Ritesh Singh docriteshsingh@...:
                      > >
                      > > > **
                      >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > i absolutely agree with dr akash srivastava
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Aakash Shrivastava <
                      > > > dr.aakash.shrivastava@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >> **
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> *Dear Dr Radha*
                      > > >> *Dr Sood has very politely explained you the difference. I put it in
                      >
                      > > >> sociological perspective. As an intern who has along way to go, you need to
                      > > >> be careful in planning your future. Choosing Public Health, over Clinical
                      > > >> Subjects for post-graduation is first step to "marginalization". In public
                      > > >> health, choosing a non-M.D. degree qualification is a "double disadvantage".
                      > > >> This disadvantage would only have a "cumulative effect" as you progress in
                      > > >> your career, unless you choose to leave the borders of India ! That is the
                      > > >> only time it gains advantage.*
                      > > >> *Expecting that MCI or any other organisation will ever change
                      >
                      > > >> its skepticism to this issue is like asking too much. I do not think there
                      > > >> is any possibility for next one or two more generations. In India,
                      > > >> decisions on public health are taken firstly by bureaucrats, the next level
                      > > >> of decision is by Technocrats trained as Clinicians. Then comes the Public
                      > > >> Health trained professionals. So policy changes in India on this issue isn't
                      > > >> going to happen. Yes, International agencies agree to give opportunities,
                      > > >> but only to the point when you have a non-Indian on selection board. The
                      > > >> bias for a M.D. candidate is going to be strong. So its better you spent
                      > > >> your present days competing for a post graduation in clinical discipline. E
                      > > >> **ven if your ultimate wish to serve the field of public health, in **long
                      > > >> run this would be a better way to do so. *
                      >
                      > > >>
                      > > >> --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Radha Valaulikar radharadha@
                      >
                      > > >> wrote:
                      > > >> >
                      > > >> > Dear IAPSM youth members group,
                      > > >> >
                      > > >> > I learnt that he MPH (Masters in Public Health) course offered by
                      > > >> various
                      > > >> > institutes across India is not recognised by the MCI. What are its
                      > > >> > implications? What all can a MPH person *not* do because his course is
                      > > >> not
                      > > >>
                      > > >> > recognised by the Medical Council of India? I'll be thankful if somebody
                      > > >> can
                      > > >> > please answer my query.....
                      > > >> >
                      > > >> > Thank you very much
                      > > >> >
                      > > >> > Dr.Radha Valaulikar
                      > > >> > Intern, GMC-Goa
                      > > >> > radharadha@
                      >
                      > > >> > 09881202353
                      > > >> >
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > 
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                      > Assistant Professor,
                      > Department of Community Medicine,
                      > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                      > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                      > Mobile: 9836444242
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                      > Assistant Professor,
                      > Department of Community Medicine,
                      > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                      > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                      > Mobile: 9836444242
                      >



                    • Ritesh Singh
                      i could not agree more with dr. neeti..... very true... we should introspect, young public health professionals (Community Medicine PG holders) should come
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 4, 2011
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                        i could not agree more with dr. neeti.....
                        very true...
                        we should introspect, young public health professionals (Community
                        Medicine PG holders) should come forward and lead the way. its very
                        pity to see at the conferences and meetings experienced members still
                        debating the name of the branch. i overheard in a meeting from a
                        respectable senior member: "We should change the name of the Community
                        Medicine to Public Health."
                        C'mon you are not solving the real problems and fiddling with the names..
                        Shakespeare rightly said: Whats in a name...

                        --
                        Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                        Assistant Professor,
                        Department of Community Medicine,
                        College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                        Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                        Mobile: 9836444242
                      • Ritesh Singh
                        Dear Dr. Omesh, My views regarding the association between rabies and PSM: Its true that rabies and Community Medicine are very closely related and even my
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 8, 2011
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                          Dear Dr. Omesh,

                          My views regarding the association between rabies and PSM:

                          Its true that rabies and Community Medicine are very closely related
                          and even my friends ask me dosage of "Rabipur" whenever they
                          anticipate or gets bitten by a dog. I feel sad that we are intimately
                          related to a disease for which there is no treatment, the fatality is
                          100%. That is the domain which only belongs to us because no one wants
                          to take it as fatality is 100%. Any conference/gathering related to
                          PSM has one sponsor: RABIPUR :)
                          no offence to anyone....

                          Regards.

                          Ritesh Singh

                          --
                          Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                          Assistant Professor,
                          Department of Community Medicine,
                          College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                          Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                          Mobile: 9836444242
                        • Aakash Shrivastava
                          Dear all I was attending a pan-european public health conference today and observed an interesting observation in one of the presentations. The presentation
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 9, 2011
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                            Dear all

                            I was attending a pan-european public health conference today and observed an interesting observation in one of the presentations. The presentation analysed willingness of final year medicos to take up public health specialty as a full time profession. 

                            Public health in Europe is fortunately not what public health is in India and its MCI curriculum. I today confirmed on my thought that Indian students are being confused by how the curriculum is designed to teach them clinical things. It not only is detrimental to them, it deprives  India of family physicians, hospital administrators and other relevant professionals to handle special tasks. 

                            The presentation made a policy note, that the more unambiguous the system is kept, the better is the uptake response. This is something the young teachers on this forum need to understand in Indian context also. Do not train your students to be second class clinicians, train them to be first class public health professionals.

                            --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Ritesh Singh <docriteshsingh@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Dr. Omesh,
                            >
                            > My views regarding the association between rabies and PSM:
                            >
                            > Its true that rabies and Community Medicine are very closely related
                            > and even my friends ask me dosage of "Rabipur" whenever they
                            > anticipate or gets bitten by a dog. I feel sad that we are intimately
                            > related to a disease for which there is no treatment, the fatality is
                            > 100%. That is the domain which only belongs to us because no one wants
                            > to take it as fatality is 100%. Any conference/gathering related to
                            > PSM has one sponsor: RABIPUR :)
                            > no offence to anyone....
                            >
                            > Regards.
                            >
                            > Ritesh Singh
                            >
                            > --
                            > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                            > Assistant Professor,
                            > Department of Community Medicine,
                            > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                            > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                            > Mobile: 9836444242
                            >
                          • Aakash Shrivastava
                            For those interested in understanding what is it to be a public health professional read the report mentioned in a new thread of this forumThe report comes
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 22, 2011
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                              For those interested in understanding what is it to be a public health professional read the report mentioned in a new thread of this forum
                              The report comes from WHO India APW submitted by KK Datta 2009 



                              --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, "Aakash Shrivastava" <dr.aakash.shrivastava@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear all
                              > I was attending a pan-european public health conference today and
                              > observed an interesting observation in one of the presentations. The
                              > presentation analysed willingness of final year medicos to take up
                              > public health specialty as a full time profession.
                              > Public health in Europe is fortunately not what public health is in
                              > India and its MCI curriculum. I today confirmed on my thought that
                              > Indian students are being confused by how the curriculum is designed to
                              > teach them clinical things. It not only is detrimental to them, it
                              > deprives India of family physicians, hospital administrators and other
                              > relevant professionals to handle special tasks.
                              > The presentation made a policy note, that the more unambiguous the
                              > system is kept, the better is the uptake response. This is something the
                              > young teachers on this forum need to understand in Indian context also.
                              > Do not train your students to be second class clinicians, train them to
                              > be first class public health professionals.
                              > --- In iapsm_youthmembers@yahoogroups.com, Ritesh Singh
                              > docriteshsingh@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dear Dr. Omesh,
                              > >
                              > > My views regarding the association between rabies and PSM:
                              > >
                              > > Its true that rabies and Community Medicine are very closely related
                              > > and even my friends ask me dosage of "Rabipur" whenever they
                              > > anticipate or gets bitten by a dog. I feel sad that we are intimately
                              > > related to a disease for which there is no treatment, the fatality is
                              > > 100%. That is the domain which only belongs to us because no one wants
                              > > to take it as fatality is 100%. Any conference/gathering related to
                              > > PSM has one sponsor: RABIPUR :)
                              > > no offence to anyone....
                              > >
                              > > Regards.
                              > >
                              > > Ritesh Singh
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > Dr. Ritesh Singh MD (AIIMS)
                              > > Assistant Professor,
                              > > Department of Community Medicine,
                              > > College of Medicine and J. N. M. Hospital,
                              > > Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal.
                              > > Mobile: 9836444242
                              > >
                              >
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