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Flood modeling for ungauged basins

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  • Bahareh
    Dear All, I want to estimate peak flows for an ungauged basin. Do you know which methods can be used for this purpose except from flood frequency analysis? How
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 11, 2012
      Dear All,

      I want to estimate peak flows for an ungauged basin. Do you know which methods can be used for this purpose except from flood frequency analysis?
      How can hydrological modeling be performed for such basins? Is there any new method for hydrologic modeling?

      Thank you
      Bahar
    • srigiriraju sriharirao
      Dear Mr Bahar, You can down load Hec-HMS and estimate the peak flood based on rainfall and catchment area.if you have ARC GIS, you can also use HEC-GeoHMS.
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 11, 2012
        Dear Mr Bahar,

        You can down load Hec-HMS and estimate the peak flood based on rainfall and catchment area.if you have ARC GIS, you can also use HEC-GeoHMS.

        With best wishes
        DR.S.S.Rao



        --- On Thu, 10/11/12, Bahareh <bahareh_eskandari@...> wrote:

        From: Bahareh <bahareh_eskandari@...>
        Subject: [hydforum] Flood modeling for ungauged basins
        To: hydforum@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 6:28 PM

        Dear All,

        I want to estimate peak flows for an ungauged basin. Do you know which methods can be used for this purpose except from flood frequency analysis?

        How can hydrological modeling be performed for such basins? Is there any new method for hydrologic modeling?

        Thank you
        Bahar
      • Ranjit Injirapu
        Dear Bahar, Use Hydro-meteorological approach. generate Unit Hydrograph (CWC s equations/ Synders, etc)and obtain PMP values from IMD atlas. HEC HMS is best
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 11, 2012
          Dear Bahar,

          Use Hydro-meteorological approach. generate Unit Hydrograph (CWC's equations/ Synders, etc)and obtain PMP values from IMD atlas.

          HEC HMS is best suitable model for hydrology modelling. however i prefer excel.

          Regards,
          Ranjit


          ________________________________
          From: Bahareh <bahareh_eskandari@...>
          To: hydforum@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2012 6:28 PM
          Subject: [hydforum] Flood modeling for ungauged basins

          Dear All,

          I want to estimate peak flows for an ungauged basin. Do you know which methods can be used for this purpose except from flood frequency analysis?

          How can hydrological modeling be performed for such basins? Is there any new method for hydrologic modeling?

          Thank you
          Bahar
        • Riccardo Rigon
          It does not exist anything that can be considered a model to predict discharge in ungauged basis. Translated in hydrologists language this would be to have
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 12, 2012
            It does not exist anything that can be considered a model to predict discharge in ungauged basis. Translated in hydrologists' language this would be to have hydrological models whose parameters are properly fitted for the basin under analysis. unfortunately, despite we are at the end of a decades dedicated to this, see (http://pub.iahs.info/), very few progresses were made on the subject, i.e., take the parameters in a basins and transport them to another one with different characteristics (geology, climate, vegetation).

            Therefore, the choice is to use a decent hydrological model (see for instance: http://abouthydrology.blogspot.it/2012/02/which-hydrological-model-is-better-q.html and related stuff on the same blog), choose possibly one whose parameters are reasonable physical (like velocity, lengths measurable through GIS) and use these for you predictions.

            This obviously will also be subject to the knowledge of the meteorological forcings, i.e., mainly, rainfall. Because these forcings are not know, unless to move the discussion on the domain of meteorological predictions, which by the way, are known to be limited by the chaotic nature of the weather system, hydrological prediction is, in case, limited to prediction ASSUMED the rainfall, which make the prediction very hypothetical. In fact, prediction in ungauged basin usually, means instead: can you reproduce the measured discharged in a basin with your model of choice if I give you the rainfall.

            This means that the event already happened, and semantically is not, the general public would called "a prediction".

            Anyway, probably your scope is very much more limited, and you just want to make some hypothesis of what the discharge could have been in a past event, at the outlet of a basin, given all the information in your possess.

            Certainly, with a good model, you can do "educated guesses", and argue.

            That the state of our ignorance (of if you prefer, of our knowledge.

            riccardo rigon

            ________________________________________________________________
            Universita` di Trento Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile e Ambientale/CUDAM
            Via Mesiano, 77, 38050 Trento (ITALIA)
            E-mail: riccardo.rigon@...
            Ph: +390461882614-10 Fax:+390461882672
            Web page: http://www.ing.unitn.it/dica/hp/?user=rigon
            Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
            JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
            Next JGrass development: http://www.jgrasstools.org
            GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model): http://www.geotop.org/
            Slides Idrologia: http://www.slideshare.net/SlidesIdrologia/presentations/
            Slides About Hydrology: http://www.slideshare.net/SlidesAboutHydrology/presentations/
            My Blog: http://abouthydrology.blogspot.com/
            _______________________________________________________________


            On Oct 11, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bahareh <bahareh_eskandari@...> wrote:

            > Dear All,
            >
            > I want to estimate peak flows for an ungauged basin. Do you know which methods can be used for this purpose except from flood frequency analysis?
            > How can hydrological modeling be performed for such basins? Is there any new method for hydrologic modeling?
            >
            > Thank you
            > Bahar
          • mesfin
            hello Check this link for ungauged catchments http://en.scientificcommons.org/25461275
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 12, 2012
              hello

              Check this link for ungauged catchments

              http://en.scientificcommons.org/25461275

              On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Riccardo Rigon <rccrd.rgn@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > It does not exist anything that can be considered a model to predict
              > discharge in ungauged basis. Translated in hydrologists' language this
              > would be to have hydrological models whose parameters are properly fitted
              > for the basin under analysis. unfortunately, despite we are at the end of a
              > decades dedicated to this, see (http://pub.iahs.info/), very few
              > progresses were made on the subject, i.e., take the parameters in a basins
              > and transport them to another one with different characteristics (geology,
              > climate, vegetation).
              >
              > Therefore, the choice is to use a decent hydrological model (see for
              > instance:
              > http://abouthydrology.blogspot.it/2012/02/which-hydrological-model-is-better-q.htmland related stuff on the same blog), choose possibly one whose parameters
              > are reasonable physical (like velocity, lengths measurable through GIS) and
              > use these for you predictions.
              >
              > This obviously will also be subject to the knowledge of the meteorological
              > forcings, i.e., mainly, rainfall. Because these forcings are not know,
              > unless to move the discussion on the domain of meteorological predictions,
              > which by the way, are known to be limited by the chaotic nature of the
              > weather system, hydrological prediction is, in case, limited to prediction
              > ASSUMED the rainfall, which make the prediction very hypothetical. In fact,
              > prediction in ungauged basin usually, means instead: can you reproduce the
              > measured discharged in a basin with your model of choice if I give you the
              > rainfall.
              >
              > This means that the event already happened, and semantically is not, the
              > general public would called "a prediction".
              >
              > Anyway, probably your scope is very much more limited, and you just want
              > to make some hypothesis of what the discharge could have been in a past
              > event, at the outlet of a basin, given all the information in your possess.
              >
              > Certainly, with a good model, you can do "educated guesses", and argue.
              >
              > That the state of our ignorance (of if you prefer, of our knowledge.
              >
              > riccardo rigon
              >
              > __________________________________________________________
              > Universita` di Trento Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile e Ambientale/CUDAM
              > Via Mesiano, 77, 38050 Trento (ITALIA)
              > E-mail: riccardo.rigon@...
              > Ph: +390461882614-10 Fax:+390461882672
              > Web page: http://www.ing.unitn.it/dica/hp/?user=rigon
              > Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
              > JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
              > Next JGrass development: http://www.jgrasstools.org
              > GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model):
              > http://www.geotop.org/
              > Slides Idrologia: http://www.slideshare.net/SlidesIdrologia/presentations/
              > Slides About Hydrology:
              > http://www.slideshare.net/SlidesAboutHydrology/presentations/
              > My Blog: http://abouthydrology.blogspot.com/
              > __________________________________________________________
              >
              > On Oct 11, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Bahareh <bahareh_eskandari@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Dear All,
              > >
              > > I want to estimate peak flows for an ungauged basin. Do you know which
              > methods can be used for this purpose except from flood frequency analysis?
              > > How can hydrological modeling be performed for such basins? Is there any
              > new method for hydrologic modeling?
              > >
              > > Thank you
              > > Bahar
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