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Northwest Indiana

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  • soozieqty1
    Hi All, I m chiming in on Friday s solar flares. There has been no hum all day and it is after 3:30AM now. I have heard it lightly a few times over the last
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 14, 2014
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      Hi All,
       I'm chiming in on Friday's solar flares. There has been no hum all day and it is after 3:30AM now. I have heard it lightly a few times over the last few weeks but is only is present for a few minutes at a time and spaced many days apart at different times of the day. Very Strange. I can't complain it's totally tolerable and it has been for way over a year now.
       I guess this rules out solar fares for me here in northwest Indiana.
      Blessings to each of you,
      Suzie


    • wfbarto
      I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares. I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 15, 2014
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        I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

        I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

        I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.
      • Soozie
        Very interesting that your hum sounds like my hum, as well as Bloomington Indiana and southern Illinois. Most notable if you ask me! Thanks much for posting.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 16, 2014
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          Very interesting that your hum "sounds" like my hum, as well as Bloomington Indiana and southern Illinois. Most notable if you ask me!
          Thanks much for posting.
          Blessings,
          Suzie


          From: "wfbarto@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
          To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 10:51 AM
          Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

           
          I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

          I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

          I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.


        • Cottrell, Danyele Marie
          From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything. I’m
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 16, 2014
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            From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  

            I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.

             

            I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!

            I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  

            For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).

             

            Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????

             

            This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…

             

             

             

            From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
            Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
            To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

             

             

            I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

            I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

            I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.

          • Soozie
            I second Danyele s reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don t know anyone there but I do know where it s located! Bedford is solid
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 16, 2014
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              I second Danyele's reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don't know anyone there but I do know where it's located! Bedford is solid limestone and it is where many stone quarries and pits are located.  Home of stone cutters! I mention this because there were some that were discussing the stone underground in the past on here. Our fault lines in this area of the country are very old and not as active as in other parts of the country. They are very deep in the ground too comparatively speaking. This is not on the new Madrid fault lines at all. Is this related to tectonic plates moving or vibrations from deep in the earth? One has to wonder given the real facts for us here in the midwest U.S.A., as well as other parts of the world where they've ruled out all the other man made sources.
              For me as I have said before there are no man made sources that can be attributed as the original source of the hum here at all, period.
               The report from Wayne is practically identical to mine here several hundreds of miles away in the north. Snow, cold, humidity, or lack there of is not a factor in my opinion at all.
               Blessings,
              Suzie


              From: "'Cottrell, Danyele Marie' dcottrel@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
              To: "'humforum@yahoogroups.com'" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 8:05 AM
              Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

               
              From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  
              I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.
               
              I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!
              I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  
              For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).
               
              Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????
               
              This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…
               
               
               


              From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
              Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
              To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana
               
               
              I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

              I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

              I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.


            • Copsne
              Has anyone read the Windsor hum report from Western Univ in Ontario? Dated a year ago! One salient conclusion made was the source of the Hum (I believe the
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 17, 2014
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                Has anyone read the Windsor hum report from Western Univ in Ontario?  Dated a year ago!
                One salient conclusion made was the source of the Hum (I believe the area also has other acoustic problems called flutter and its all been generalized as hum) appears south of the accused Zug Island. And just south of Zug are the large HP NG lines that pass under the river between the US and Canada (between River Rouge MI and Ojibway area Ont).

                And one reason, of many, I believe they were unsuccessful locating the source is because it is a planar one that runs for hundreds of miles, not a point source which is that they were looking for. 

                So even though many keep dismissing the involvement of these lines in their areas, the data from studies and other gas pipeline syndrome work keep piling up solid correlations. Yes there are other sources, but....

                Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects

                On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "Soozie soozieqty1@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                 

                I second Danyele's reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don't know anyone there but I do know where it's located! Bedford is solid limestone and it is where many stone quarries and pits are located.  Home of stone cutters! I mention this because there were some that were discussing the stone underground in the past on here. Our fault lines in this area of the country are very old and not as active as in other parts of the country. They are very deep in the ground too comparatively speaking. This is not on the new Madrid fault lines at all. Is this related to tectonic plates moving or vibrations from deep in the earth? One has to wonder given the real facts for us here in the midwest U.S.A., as well as other parts of the world where they've ruled out all the other man made sources.
                For me as I have said before there are no man made sources that can be attributed as the original source of the hum here at all, period.
                 The report from Wayne is practically identical to mine here several hundreds of miles away in the north. Snow, cold, humidity, or lack there of is not a factor in my opinion at all.
                 Blessings,
                Suzie


                From: "'Cottrell, Danyele Marie' dcottrel@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                To: "'humforum@yahoogroups.com'" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 8:05 AM
                Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                 
                From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  
                I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.
                 
                I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!
                I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  
                For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).
                 
                Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????
                 
                This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…
                 
                 
                 


                From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
                To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana
                 
                 
                I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

                I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

                I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.


              • Timothy Carpenter
                Steve, First, I’d really appreciate a specific citation that demonstrates a natural gas or any other pipeline crosses beneath the Detroit River proximate to
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 17, 2014
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                  Steve,

                  First, I’d really appreciate a specific citation that demonstrates a natural gas or any other pipeline crosses beneath the Detroit River proximate to the area of concern. There are two electric power generation plants on the Detroit side that use natural gas, the (mainly) coal-fired Edison plant immediately south of Zug and on the shore of the river; and a natural gas dual turbine facility somewhat north of Zug. Both are fed by gas pipelines but there is no record that I’m aware of that there are any lines crossing the river. To be complete, there are also two natural gas electric generating facilities on the Canadian side of the river, both of which are supplied by independent Canadian gas lines.

                  In order to comprehend the results of the two reports, one must understand that the exceptionally intense low frequency noise that initiated the complaints some years ago (early 2011), was effectively absent during the period of both studies. So, if the worst of the noise was absent, then you can’t find it, simple as that. There, was noise, but for the most part it was probably from more normal (but intense) industrial processes, including train horns. There were noise complaints during this period, but as noted, they did not identify the characteristics that were operative at the onset of the problem. It was noted, however, that the noise complaints seemed to be at a higher level in the southern part of the area of concern, namely LaSalle.

                  There were two separate and distinct reports, one by the University of Western Ontario (UWO) and one by the University of Windsor (UW). The UWO study, to which you have addressed your comments, collected field data for a bit more than a month, from late February to early April 2013. If you will note, they deployed two arrays; Array 1 was located well downstream of Zug Island and, of course, on the Canadian side of the river. Array 2 was located directly across from the south end of Zug island, closer to the presumed source(s) of the extremely intense low frequency noise. During the study period, Array 2 yielded essentially no usable data, possibly because the offending noise source had been mitigated or the atmospheric conditions were not optimum for directing the noise into the residential areas.

                  Array 1, however, in my opinion yielded wildly successful results, although the authors didn’t seem to recognize their own success. The greatest amount of hits, correlated with residential complaints, pointed within roughly 6-degrees of one of the more  energetic facilities along the river, that being two basic oxygen process (BOP) steel-making furnaces (BOF). The bearing computed for the noise was 265 (+-) 4 degrees the bearing quickly taken from Google Earth to the midpoint of the two furnaces is 271.22 degrees. Given the distance involved coupled with atmospheric effects, the results are remarkably accurate.

                  To my knowledge there is absolutely zero evidence that any size or type of pipeline is associated with the various types of noise affecting the Windsor & LaSalle neighborhoods.

                  For completeness, it should also be mentioned that active salt mining takes place in the area (both sides of the river, but not underneath) and there is a BP NGL salt cavern storage facility proximate to the area of noise impact. Neither of the two facilities have been identified as a source of offending intense low-frequency noise.

                  Finally, the term “flutter”, in my experience, relates to the effect of echo in room acoustics. Could you provide a more concise definition of the term as you are using it and how it applies to the Windsor problem?

                  Regards,

                  -Tim-

                  Timothy Carpenter, P.E., President

                  GeoDynamics Consultants, Inc.

                  11471 North Shore Drive

                  Northport, Michigan  49670

                  --

                  5043 Whitlow Court

                  Commerce Township, Michigan  48382

                   

                  248-363-4529

                  geodynamics@...

                  geodynamics@...

                   

                   

                  From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:38 AM
                  To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                   

                   

                  Has anyone read the Windsor hum report from Western Univ in Ontario?  Dated a year ago!

                  One salient conclusion made was the source of the Hum (I believe the area also has other acoustic problems called flutter and its all been generalized as hum) appears south of the accused Zug Island. And just south of Zug are the large HP NG lines that pass under the river between the US and Canada (between River Rouge MI and Ojibway area Ont).

                   

                  And one reason, of many, I believe they were unsuccessful locating the source is because it is a planar one that runs for hundreds of miles, not a point source which is that they were looking for. 

                   

                  So even though many keep dismissing the involvement of these lines in their areas, the data from studies and other gas pipeline syndrome work keep piling up solid correlations. Yes there are other sources, but....

                  Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects


                  On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "Soozie soozieqty1@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                   

                  I second Danyele's reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don't know anyone there but I do know where it's located! Bedford is solid limestone and it is where many stone quarries and pits are located.  Home of stone cutters! I mention this because there were some that were discussing the stone underground in the past on here. Our fault lines in this area of the country are very old and not as active as in other parts of the country. They are very deep in the ground too comparatively speaking. This is not on the new Madrid fault lines at all. Is this related to tectonic plates moving or vibrations from deep in the earth? One has to wonder given the real facts for us here in the midwest U.S.A., as well as other parts of the world where they've ruled out all the other man made sources.

                  For me as I have said before there are no man made sources that can be attributed as the original source of the hum here at all, period.

                   The report from Wayne is practically identical to mine here several hundreds of miles away in the north. Snow, cold, humidity, or lack there of is not a factor in my opinion at all.

                   Blessings,

                  Suzie

                   


                  From: "'Cottrell, Danyele Marie' dcottrel@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                  To: "'
                  humforum@yahoogroups.com'" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 8:05 AM
                  Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                   

                   

                  From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  

                  I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.

                   

                  I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!

                  I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  

                  For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).

                   

                  Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????

                   

                  This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                  Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
                  To:
                  humforum@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                   

                   

                  I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

                  I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

                  I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.

                   

                • Soozie
                  Steve,  I dare you to come live over here for a period of time and then make those assumptions! I do know that you suffer from something different than we do
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 17, 2014
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                    Steve,
                     I dare you to come live over here for a period of time and then make those assumptions! I do know that you suffer from something different than we do here. Don't believe me, then feel free to test it out yourself.  Instead of trying to insist that your personal hum situation is world wide and absolutely must be the source for everyone, prove it. Prove it to yourself! We already know it's not the gas lines here at all. It's you who needs the proof not us! No amout of arguing will change the real facts over here dear!
                     There are many here in the midwest that have repeatedly said that we do not see any correlation to the gas lines or different seasons, weather, or temperature and we do not have standing waves in pools of water at all. All of us are educated analytical people and are certainly able to discern, test and analyze all that you have brought to the table here, and have done so in search of the source, yet still we all feel the gas lines are not the culprit at all.
                     Please try hard to understand that your source is not our source no matter how long you argue, insist, and cram it in our faces. We are on your side and we all do want to see you achieve success in battling the energy giants, but our source is different than yours PERIOD and all of us have told you this. We do not say this out of ignorance, nor just to be oppositional, nor just to cling to some personal favorite theory. We are all smart enough, and quite able to test, examine, and discern all of the theories that have been posed here, and have done so. We have all carefully considered all the possible sources, including gas lines, and have thoroughly tested the theories as much as was possible and all have concluded it's not gas lines for absolute certain!
                    Either accept that there is a difference or come here and prove it to yourself.
                      Please stop beating us up verbally just because we are suffering from a different hum than you are, your insistance doesn't change the FACTS.
                    Blessings,
                    Suzie

                    From: "Copsne c_o_p_s_ne@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                    To: "humforum@yahoogroups.com" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 9:38 AM
                    Subject: Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                     
                    Has anyone read the Windsor hum report from Western Univ in Ontario?  Dated a year ago!
                    One salient conclusion made was the source of the Hum (I believe the area also has other acoustic problems called flutter and its all been generalized as hum) appears south of the accused Zug Island. And just south of Zug are the large HP NG lines that pass under the river between the US and Canada (between River Rouge MI and Ojibway area Ont).

                    And one reason, of many, I believe they were unsuccessful locating the source is because it is a planar one that runs for hundreds of miles, not a point source which is that they were looking for. 

                    So even though many keep dismissing the involvement of these lines in their areas, the data from studies and other gas pipeline syndrome work keep piling up solid correlations. Yes there are other sources, but....

                    Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects

                    On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "Soozie soozieqty1@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                     
                    I second Danyele's reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don't know anyone there but I do know where it's located! Bedford is solid limestone and it is where many stone quarries and pits are located.  Home of stone cutters! I mention this because there were some that were discussing the stone underground in the past on here. Our fault lines in this area of the country are very old and not as active as in other parts of the country. They are very deep in the ground too comparatively speaking. This is not on the new Madrid fault lines at all. Is this related to tectonic plates moving or vibrations from deep in the earth? One has to wonder given the real facts for us here in the midwest U.S.A., as well as other parts of the world where they've ruled out all the other man made sources.
                    For me as I have said before there are no man made sources that can be attributed as the original source of the hum here at all, period.
                     The report from Wayne is practically identical to mine here several hundreds of miles away in the north. Snow, cold, humidity, or lack there of is not a factor in my opinion at all.
                     Blessings,
                    Suzie


                    From: "'Cottrell, Danyele Marie' dcottrel@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                    To: "'humforum@yahoogroups.com'" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 8:05 AM
                    Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                     
                    From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  
                    I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.
                     
                    I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!
                    I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  
                    For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).
                     
                    Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????
                     
                    This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…
                     
                     
                     


                    From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                    Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
                    To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana
                     
                     
                    I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

                    I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

                    I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.




                  • Copsne
                    Timothy I ll send you the information to your email address. And I would be thrilled to go over all my work and that of consultants engaged by the utilities
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 18, 2014
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                      Timothy
                      I'll send you the information to your email address. And I would be thrilled to go over all my work and that of consultants engaged by the utilities here in CT. 
                      Steve

                      Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects

                      On Jun 17, 2014, at 8:17 PM, "'Timothy Carpenter' geodynamics@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                       

                      Steve,

                      First, I’d really appreciate a specific citation that demonstrates a natural gas or any other pipeline crosses beneath the Detroit River proximate to the area of concern. There are two electric power generation plants on the Detroit side that use natural gas, the (mainly) coal-fired Edison plant immediately south of Zug and on the shore of the river; and a natural gas dual turbine facility somewhat north of Zug. Both are fed by gas pipelines but there is no record that I’m aware of that there are any lines crossing the river. To be complete, there are also two natural gas electric generating facilities on the Canadian side of the river, both of which are supplied by independent Canadian gas lines.

                      In order to comprehend the results of the two reports, one must understand that the exceptionally intense low frequency noise that initiated the complaints some years ago (early 2011), was effectively absent during the period of both studies. So, if the worst of the noise was absent, then you can’t find it, simple as that. There, was noise, but for the most part it was probably from more normal (but intense) industrial processes, including train horns. There were noise complaints during this period, but as noted, they did not identify the characteristics that were operative at the onset of the problem. It was noted, however, that the noise complaints seemed to be at a higher level in the southern part of the area of concern, namely LaSalle.

                      There were two separate and distinct reports, one by the University of Western Ontario (UWO) and one by the University of Windsor (UW). The UWO study, to which you have addressed your comments, collected field data for a bit more than a month, from late February to early April 2013. If you will note, they deployed two arrays; Array 1 was located well downstream of Zug Island and, of course, on the Canadian side of the river. Array 2 was located directly across from the south end of Zug island, closer to the presumed source(s) of the extremely intense low frequency noise. During the study period, Array 2 yielded essentially no usable data, possibly because the offending noise source had been mitigated or the atmospheric conditions were not optimum for directing the noise into the residential areas.

                      Array 1, however, in my opinion yielded wildly successful results, although the authors didn’t seem to recognize their own success. The greatest amount of hits, correlated with residential complaints, pointed within roughly 6-degrees of one of the more  energetic facilities along the river, that being two basic oxygen process (BOP) steel-making furnaces (BOF). The bearing computed for the noise was 265 (+-) 4 degrees the bearing quickly taken from Google Earth to the midpoint of the two furnaces is 271.22 degrees. Given the distance involved coupled with atmospheric effects, the results are remarkably accurate.

                      To my knowledge there is absolutely zero evidence that any size or type of pipeline is associated with the various types of noise affecting the Windsor & LaSalle neighborhoods.

                      For completeness, it should also be mentioned that active salt mining takes place in the area (both sides of the river, but not underneath) and there is a BP NGL salt cavern storage facility proximate to the area of noise impact. Neither of the two facilities have been identified as a source of offending intense low-frequency noise.

                      Finally, the term “flutter”, in my experience, relates to the effect of echo in room acoustics. Could you provide a more concise definition of the term as you are using it and how it applies to the Windsor problem?

                      Regards,

                      -Tim-

                      Timothy Carpenter, P.E., President

                      GeoDynamics Consultants, Inc.

                      11471 North Shore Drive

                      Northport, Michigan  49670

                      --

                      5043 Whitlow Court

                      Commerce Township, Michigan  48382

                       

                      248-363-4529

                      geodynamics@...

                      geodynamics@...

                       

                       

                      From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:38 AM
                      To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                       

                       

                      Has anyone read the Windsor hum report from Western Univ in Ontario?  Dated a year ago!

                      One salient conclusion made was the source of the Hum (I believe the area also has other acoustic problems called flutter and its all been generalized as hum) appears south of the accused Zug Island. And just south of Zug are the large HP NG lines that pass under the river between the US and Canada (between River Rouge MI and Ojibway area Ont).

                       

                      And one reason, of many, I believe they were unsuccessful locating the source is because it is a planar one that runs for hundreds of miles, not a point source which is that they were looking for. 

                       

                      So even though many keep dismissing the involvement of these lines in their areas, the data from studies and other gas pipeline syndrome work keep piling up solid correlations. Yes there are other sources, but....

                      Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects


                      On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "Soozie soozieqty1@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                       

                      I second Danyele's reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don't know anyone there but I do know where it's located! Bedford is solid limestone and it is where many stone quarries and pits are located.  Home of stone cutters! I mention this because there were some that were discussing the stone underground in the past on here. Our fault lines in this area of the country are very old and not as active as in other parts of the country. They are very deep in the ground too comparatively speaking. This is not on the new Madrid fault lines at all. Is this related to tectonic plates moving or vibrations from deep in the earth? One has to wonder given the real facts for us here in the midwest U.S.A., as well as other parts of the world where they've ruled out all the other man made sources.

                      For me as I have said before there are no man made sources that can be attributed as the original source of the hum here at all, period.

                       The report from Wayne is practically identical to mine here several hundreds of miles away in the north. Snow, cold, humidity, or lack there of is not a factor in my opinion at all.

                       Blessings,

                      Suzie

                       


                      From: "'Cottrell, Danyele Marie' dcottrel@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                      To: "'
                      humforum@yahoogroups.com'" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 8:05 AM
                      Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                       

                       

                      From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  

                      I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.

                       

                      I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!

                      I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  

                      For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).

                       

                      Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????

                       

                      This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                      Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
                      To:
                      humforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                       

                       

                      I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

                      I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

                      I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.

                       

                    • Copsne
                      Timothy did you receive my email from 2 days ago Steve Sent from Steve s iPhone and I appologize for typo s and auto corrects ... Timothy did you receive my
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 26, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Timothy did you receive my email from 2 days ago
                        Steve

                        Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects

                        On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:37 PM, "Copsne c_o_p_s_ne@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                         

                        Timothy
                        I'll send you the information to your email address. And I would be thrilled to go over all my work and that of consultants engaged by the utilities here in CT. 
                        Steve

                        Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects

                        On Jun 17, 2014, at 8:17 PM, "'Timothy Carpenter' geodynamics@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                         

                        Steve,

                        First, I’d really appreciate a specific citation that demonstrates a natural gas or any other pipeline crosses beneath the Detroit River proximate to the area of concern. There are two electric power generation plants on the Detroit side that use natural gas, the (mainly) coal-fired Edison plant immediately south of Zug and on the shore of the river; and a natural gas dual turbine facility somewhat north of Zug. Both are fed by gas pipelines but there is no record that I’m aware of that there are any lines crossing the river. To be complete, there are also two natural gas electric generating facilities on the Canadian side of the river, both of which are supplied by independent Canadian gas lines.

                        In order to comprehend the results of the two reports, one must understand that the exceptionally intense low frequency noise that initiated the complaints some years ago (early 2011), was effectively absent during the period of both studies. So, if the worst of the noise was absent, then you can’t find it, simple as that. There, was noise, but for the most part it was probably from more normal (but intense) industrial processes, including train horns. There were noise complaints during this period, but as noted, they did not identify the characteristics that were operative at the onset of the problem. It was noted, however, that the noise complaints seemed to be at a higher level in the southern part of the area of concern, namely LaSalle.

                        There were two separate and distinct reports, one by the University of Western Ontario (UWO) and one by the University of Windsor (UW). The UWO study, to which you have addressed your comments, collected field data for a bit more than a month, from late February to early April 2013. If you will note, they deployed two arrays; Array 1 was located well downstream of Zug Island and, of course, on the Canadian side of the river. Array 2 was located directly across from the south end of Zug island, closer to the presumed source(s) of the extremely intense low frequency noise. During the study period, Array 2 yielded essentially no usable data, possibly because the offending noise source had been mitigated or the atmospheric conditions were not optimum for directing the noise into the residential areas.

                        Array 1, however, in my opinion yielded wildly successful results, although the authors didn’t seem to recognize their own success. The greatest amount of hits, correlated with residential complaints, pointed within roughly 6-degrees of one of the more  energetic facilities along the river, that being two basic oxygen process (BOP) steel-making furnaces (BOF). The bearing computed for the noise was 265 (+-) 4 degrees the bearing quickly taken from Google Earth to the midpoint of the two furnaces is 271.22 degrees. Given the distance involved coupled with atmospheric effects, the results are remarkably accurate.

                        To my knowledge there is absolutely zero evidence that any size or type of pipeline is associated with the various types of noise affecting the Windsor & LaSalle neighborhoods.

                        For completeness, it should also be mentioned that active salt mining takes place in the area (both sides of the river, but not underneath) and there is a BP NGL salt cavern storage facility proximate to the area of noise impact. Neither of the two facilities have been identified as a source of offending intense low-frequency noise.

                        Finally, the term “flutter”, in my experience, relates to the effect of echo in room acoustics. Could you provide a more concise definition of the term as you are using it and how it applies to the Windsor problem?

                        Regards,

                        -Tim-

                        Timothy Carpenter, P.E., President

                        GeoDynamics Consultants, Inc.

                        11471 North Shore Drive

                        Northport, Michigan  49670

                        --

                        5043 Whitlow Court

                        Commerce Township, Michigan  48382

                         

                        248-363-4529

                        geodynamics@...

                        geodynamics@...

                         

                         

                        From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:38 AM
                        To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                         

                         

                        Has anyone read the Windsor hum report from Western Univ in Ontario?  Dated a year ago!

                        One salient conclusion made was the source of the Hum (I believe the area also has other acoustic problems called flutter and its all been generalized as hum) appears south of the accused Zug Island. And just south of Zug are the large HP NG lines that pass under the river between the US and Canada (between River Rouge MI and Ojibway area Ont).

                         

                        And one reason, of many, I believe they were unsuccessful locating the source is because it is a planar one that runs for hundreds of miles, not a point source which is that they were looking for. 

                         

                        So even though many keep dismissing the involvement of these lines in their areas, the data from studies and other gas pipeline syndrome work keep piling up solid correlations. Yes there are other sources, but....

                        Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's and auto corrects


                        On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "Soozie soozieqty1@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                         

                        I second Danyele's reports and observations, except the friends in Bedford cause I don't know anyone there but I do know where it's located! Bedford is solid limestone and it is where many stone quarries and pits are located.  Home of stone cutters! I mention this because there were some that were discussing the stone underground in the past on here. Our fault lines in this area of the country are very old and not as active as in other parts of the country. They are very deep in the ground too comparatively speaking. This is not on the new Madrid fault lines at all. Is this related to tectonic plates moving or vibrations from deep in the earth? One has to wonder given the real facts for us here in the midwest U.S.A., as well as other parts of the world where they've ruled out all the other man made sources.

                        For me as I have said before there are no man made sources that can be attributed as the original source of the hum here at all, period.

                         The report from Wayne is practically identical to mine here several hundreds of miles away in the north. Snow, cold, humidity, or lack there of is not a factor in my opinion at all.

                         Blessings,

                        Suzie

                         


                        From: "'Cottrell, Danyele Marie' dcottrel@... [humforum]" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: "'
                        humforum@yahoogroups.com'" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 8:05 AM
                        Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                         

                         

                        From the responses, it sound like the solar flares had no effect on hearing the hum or not. Possibly an effect of tweaking the ‘sound’ if anything.  

                        I’m fully marking that off my list of possibilities.

                         

                        I was really hoping that wfbarto was going to say he too was hum free this winter like we were here around my area.  Dang!

                        I definitely did not have a humid winter to help mask the hum, it was very cold and snowier than usual.  

                        For me, this rules out gas lines (I have asked if any changes were made to pressure output, stations, etc. anything mechanical and was told there were no changes at all), rules out weather (we have had from 2’ of snow thru horrible thunderstorms and all in between the last year).

                         

                        Honestly, the only change I can find is the that new transformers were put on the power lines all around us.  But, my friends in Bedford (about 30 miles away) are also hum free since May 2013 and I have learned that their power company did a tree cutback and a few transformers were changed…. So??????????

                         

                        This however doesn’t help that I have heard the hum in a cave (though it was fairly close to a large power line cut, hmmm?) and have heard it out in the national forest with no lines around that I have seen anyway…

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com]
                        Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51 AM
                        To:
                        humforum@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Northwest Indiana

                         

                         

                        I have noticed no difference here in E. Tennessee due to the recent solar flares.

                        I would add that last year the hum became very quiet from early May through the first of September.  This year it has been more noticeable than last year, but the time frame for hearing the hum has shifted to about 2-3 AM through 9-10 AM and is mostly unheard through the remainder of the day. 

                        I do believe that there is a masking factor provided by the level of humidity and higher dew points in the local weather that lessens the hum effect.  This year has not been as humid as last year (so far) and the hum is somewhat more noticeable this year during late spring and early summer.  I have read that ELF waves do not propagate as well in atmospheres of higher humidity, so perhaps there really is something to this masking factor and effect.

                         

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