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RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: HUM_FORUM: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory

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  • Arne
    I respectfully disagree. There are very few here who can hold their own on hum research, and at least one of them is a non-hearer. I will never approach the
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 31, 2012
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      I respectfully disagree.  There are very few here who can hold their own on hum research, and at least one of them is a non-hearer.  I will never approach the depth of knowledge Bill Curry brings (a non-hearer, and personally involved in the Kokomo & Taos Hum investigations).

      I also believe that my hum (not necessarily yours) is otogenic – that is, created within the hearing apparatus.  I have been unsuccessful at recording it, and I have heard it in remote wilderness areas - at least 50 miles from any transportation, electrical generation, cell towers, pipelines, railroads, motor boats, etc.  I’ve also heard it in remote parts of South Dakota; basically anywhere the background noise level is low Yes, Steve has the locations.  I do not have high frequency tinnitus.

      I initially suggested pulsatile tinnitus many years ago (yes, it’s in the archives).  PLEASE NOTE: tinnitus does not have to be high pitched!  High frequency tinnitus apparently presents as “sound” to the hearer, and appears to be some sort of malfunction in the hearing apparatus between outer ear and hearing cortex.  If you are unable to record it, why would an internal “fault” not be a plausible cause?

      George Santayana is still correct.

      Arne

      Central MN, USA

       

      From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pictoblu

      "...Those who haven't experienced the Hum and try to dismiss it as a form of tinnitus need to realize what a disservice they're doing to those who suffer from the Hum.  The Hum can be very debilitating, we need serious investigation on the cause and solutions, not diversions...."

      I agree and will carry this a bit further to add:

      What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum, doing here at this forum?

      Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum afflicted people that "it's just tinnitis"?

      Directed to the interloper(s):  Good try, but no go. We see right thru your agenda.  Lots of love to you and your bosses.  Now go back to where you came from and turn it off.

       

    • Tobypaws2002@aol.com
      In a message dated 30/07/2012 18:33:25 GMT Daylight Time, profdeming@earthlink.net writes: Third problem: tinnitus produces a a high-pitched apparent sound,
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 1, 2012
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        In a message dated 30/07/2012 18:33:25 GMT Daylight Time, profdeming@... writes:

        Third problem: tinnitus produces a a high-pitched
        apparent sound, while the Hum is low-ptiched.

        Hello, all,
        May I support Prof Deming's message , and  add, from my own knowledge, that
        most tinnitus sounds are high pitched, and can be many different sorts of sounds,
        e.g., the sound of frying bacon (crackling, sizzling),
        or ringing, or whistling, even 'tapping' , like the sound of a small wristwatch.
        To my knowledge, LOW pitched tinnitus is very rare.
        In my own humble opinion, I agree that '
        the widespread reporting of 'The Hum' points to an external source,
        OR, Sources.  Plural. Probably mostly airborne.
        Low frequency sounds can travel much further than higher frequencies.
        That's why double glazed windows keep out many annoying sounds, like motor mowers,
        noisy people, etc., but
        are not so good for preotecting against LOW frequency, which seems to sail
        straight through double glazing.
        Some people who phone me say they have noticed the 'Hum' shortly
        after having single glazed windows replaced by double glazed ones.
        I can echo this, as the same thing happened to me,
        ( although there were other factors as well, in my case).
        The way to check if a sound is tinnitus or not is to go into a very deep cave,
        or even a shipping container (sometimes people use them as sheds...),
        or a disused tunnel, or a cathedral or church crypt, anywhere you are
        pretty certain that outside sounds can't get in , and see if the sound goes with you.
        My best place for this test is Wookey Hole Caves in Somerset, England.
        I got permission to leave the guided tour and stay till the sound of feet , etc.,
        disappeared, and then it was the most profound silence you can ever imagine.
        Great for a tinnitus test.
        If you still hear the same sound, in such a place,  then it may be tinnitus.
        If all you hear is silence, then chances are your noise is externally produced.
        Also, ref' the suggestion that a source cannot be found , therefore it's tinnitus !
        No, sorry ! Correlation is not the same as causation.....
        We need to be careful about making spurious links.
        Best Wishes to all,
        Rosemarie Mann,
        LFNSH, England.
      • humupnorth
        Thanks Pictoblu for this: What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum, doing here at this forum? Why does any non-hearer think he
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 1, 2012
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          Thanks Pictoblu for this: "What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum, doing here at this forum?  Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum afflicted people that "it's just tinnitus"?     Exactly.

          Arne:  I think we can all agree that what you describe is tinnitus.  Those who hear the same constant tone (of whatever pitch) everywhere including 50 miles in the wilderness obviously suffer from tinnitus, therefore they should join a tinnitus forum.

          I get this Forum here is about the Hum, not tinnitus.

          As mentioned numerous times in this Hum forum, and in this thread in particular, those who hear the Hum have determined that this rumbling sound can be heard in specific locations but not others, and that several people can hear it at the same time, thus proving that it is from an external source.

          Kind regards to all.


          --- In humforum@yahoogroups.com, "Arne" <stonehollowmn@...> wrote:
          >
          > I respectfully disagree. There are very few here who can hold their own on
          > hum research, and at least one of them is a non-hearer. I will never
          > approach the depth of knowledge Bill Curry brings (a non-hearer, and
          > personally involved in the Kokomo & Taos Hum investigations).
          >
          > I also believe that my hum (not necessarily yours) is otogenic - that is,
          > created within the hearing apparatus. I have been unsuccessful at recording
          > it, and I have heard it in remote wilderness areas - at least 50 miles from
          > any transportation, electrical generation, cell towers, pipelines,
          > railroads, motor boats, etc. I've also heard it in remote parts of South
          > Dakota; basically anywhere the background noise level is low Yes, Steve has
          > the locations. I do not have high frequency tinnitus.
          >
          > I initially suggested pulsatile tinnitus many years ago (yes, it's in the
          > archives). PLEASE NOTE: tinnitus does not have to be high pitched! High
          > frequency tinnitus apparently presents as "sound" to the hearer, and appears
          > to be some sort of malfunction in the hearing apparatus between outer ear
          > and hearing cortex. If you are unable to record it, why would an internal
          > "fault" not be a plausible cause?
          >
          > George Santayana is still correct.
          >
          > Arne
          >
          > Central MN, USA
          >
          >
          >
          > From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of Pictoblu
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > "...Those who haven't experienced the Hum and try to dismiss it as a form of
          > tinnitus need to realize what a disservice they're doing to those who suffer
          > from the Hum. The Hum can be very debilitating, we need serious
          > investigation on the cause and solutions, not diversions...."
          >
          > I agree and will carry this a bit further to add:
          >
          > What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum,
          > doing here at this forum?
          >
          > Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum
          > afflicted people that "it's just tinnitis"?
          >
          > Directed to the interloper(s): Good try, but no go. We see right thru your
          > agenda. Lots of love to you and your bosses. Now go back to where you came
          > from and turn it off.
          >
        • Steve Kohlhase
          It is external, period. ________________________________ From: humupnorth To: humforum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 1, 2012
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            It is external, period.

            From: humupnorth <humupnorth@...>
            To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:03 AM
            Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: HUM_FORUM: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory

             
            Thanks Pictoblu for this: "What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum, doing here at this forum?  Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum afflicted people that "it's just tinnitus"?     Exactly.
            Arne:  I think we can all agree that what you describe is tinnitus.  Those who hear the same constant tone (of whatever pitch) everywhere including 50 miles in the wilderness obviously suffer from tinnitus, therefore they should join a tinnitus forum.
            I get this Forum here is about the Hum, not tinnitus.
            As mentioned numerous times in this Hum forum, and in this thread in particular, those who hear the Hum have determined that this rumbling sound can be heard in specific locations but not others, and that several people can hear it at the same time, thus proving that it is from an external source.
            Kind regards to all.

            --- In humforum@yahoogroups.com, "Arne" <stonehollowmn@...> wrote:
            >
            > I respectfully disagree. There are very few here who can hold their own on
            > hum research, and at least one of them is a non-hearer. I will never
            > approach the depth of knowledge Bill Curry brings (a non-hearer, and
            > personally involved in the Kokomo & Taos Hum investigations).
            >
            > I also believe that my hum (not necessarily yours) is otogenic - that is,
            > created within the hearing apparatus. I have been unsuccessful at recording
            > it, and I have heard it in remote wilderness areas - at least 50 miles from
            > any transportation, electrical generation, cell towers, pipelines,
            > railroads, motor boats, etc. I've also heard it in remote parts of South
            > Dakota; basically anywhere the background noise level is low Yes, Steve has
            > the locations. I do not have high frequency tinnitus.
            >
            > I initially suggested pulsatile tinnitus many years ago (yes, it's in the
            > archives). PLEASE NOTE: tinnitus does not have to be high pitched! High
            > frequency tinnitus apparently presents as "sound" to the hearer, and appears
            > to be some sort of malfunction in the hearing apparatus between outer ear
            > and hearing cortex. If you are unable to record it, why would an internal
            > "fault" not be a plausible cause?
            >
            > George Santayana is still correct.
            >
            > Arne
            >
            > Central MN, USA
            >
            >
            >
            > From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of Pictoblu
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > "...Those who haven't experienced the Hum and try to dismiss it as a form of
            > tinnitus need to realize what a disservice they're doing to those who suffer
            > from the Hum. The Hum can be very debilitating, we need serious
            > investigation on the cause and solutions, not diversions...."
            >
            > I agree and will carry this a bit further to add:
            >
            > What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum,
            > doing here at this forum?
            >
            > Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum
            > afflicted people that "it's just tinnitis"?
            >
            > Directed to the interloper(s): Good try, but no go. We see right thru your
            > agenda. Lots of love to you and your bosses. Now go back to where you came
            > from and turn it off.
            >


          • Soozie
            I agree with both descriptive s of he hum experience. I would also add that it is perfectly acceptable for other people, whether humlings or not, to ask
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 2, 2012
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              I agree with both descriptive's of he hum experience. I would also add that it is perfectly acceptable for other people, whether humlings or not, to ask questions and/ or pose theories or thoughts. We all must remain open minded and also kind to new people because they are learning about our affliction. Allowing them to learn and grow can only help to bring awareness to our issues. I truly appreciate the effort that went into thinking about our hum especially since he doesn't even suffer it himself. The cause he posed was presented out of innocence and not meant to derail anyone, I'm sure. We must remain kind to others as they learn about us and not automatically see it as an attack. It's all a learning process.
              Suzie

              From: Copsne <c_o_p_s_ne@...>
              To: "humforum@yahoogroups.com" <humforum@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:56 AM
              Subject: Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory

               
              Agreed!

              Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's

              On Jul 31, 2012, at 7:27 AM, "humupnorth" <humupnorth@...> wrote:

               
              I've been affected by both tinnitus and the Hum, and I agree with David's post below, except for the part on tinnitus tone.

              About 15 years ago I came down with a bad flu & ear infection, which resulted in 3 loud tones in my ears: very high pitched, medium, and the third tone was low pitch almost like a growl (probably vascular generated). It was obvious to me at the time that these tones were internally generated, the result of illness. These 3 tones were even & constant, and lasted for years. However, 15 years later, only the high pitch tone remains.

              As for the Hum, for me it occurred mostly during the first half of 2011, and was obviously from an external source since it occurred only at certain locations and times, but not others. Also, it sounded mechanical, like an idling truck with random pulses, totally unlike tinnitus. This Hum started suddenly, from unknown causes, and mostly stopped after July 2011. I still get the occasional faint Hum in the middle of the night.

              Those who haven't experienced the Hum and try to dismiss it as a form of tinnitus need to realize what a disservice they're doing to those who suffer from the Hum. The Hum can be very debilitating, we need serious investigation on the cause and solutions, not diversions.

              --- In mailto:humforum%40yahoogroups.com, David Deming <profdeming@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > There are several problems with the theory
              > that the Hum is a form of tinnitus.
              >
              > One fact is that the Hum comes and goes
              > suddenly, as if it were due to an external
              > source. Here in central Oklahoma, the Hum
              > has been absent for the last several months.
              > What? Was I suddenly cured of my tinnitus
              > for no apparent reason?
              >
              > Second problem: some people have both tinnitus
              > and the Hum, and are able to distinguish between
              > them.
              >
              > Third problem: tinnitus produces a a high-pitched
              > apparent sound, while the Hum is low-ptiched.
              >
              > >
              > > the Hum is a subjective sensation.
              > >
              >
              > Every external stimulus is a "subjective sensation."
              > When I see a painting, the painting is an objective
              > external reality. Light rays bounce off the painting
              > and convey objective information to my eyes. But how
              > I receive and interpret this information is subjective.
              > So stating that the Hum is "a subjective sensation," tells
              > us nothing new or useful. All physical data analyzed
              > by the sciences ultimately resolve to "subjective
              > sensations."
              >
              > >
              > > the fact that no one is definitely demonstrating
              > > the source of the Hum, indicates that the Hum is
              > > probably coming from inside your own bodies
              > >
              >
              > Nonsense. This is an elementary error in logic.
              > Our failure to corroborate the existence of an
              > external source does not validate your theory
              > that the source is internal. There may be many
              > other reasons we are unable to find an external
              > source.
              >
              > >
              > > I am not personally a hum sufferer.
              > >
              >
              > If you were, you probably would not be hypothesizing that
              > the Hum is a form of tinnitus. Your failure
              > to perceive the phenomenon puts you at a disadvantage.
              >
              > --DD
              >

              =


            • Soozie
              I am sure there are some within the humling group here that have an otogenic basis for their issue, but there are also others whose source ie external for sure
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 2, 2012
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                I am sure there are some within the humling group here that have an otogenic basis for their issue, but there are also others whose source ie external for sure because of visible vibration etc. Then there is a third group that has no visible vibration and it appears to have an external source.
                 The theory's as to why we may be unable to record it , though it originates outside our body's, is that possibly it is outside of our current technological abilities, or it is outside of our range of hearing but the vibration still affects us, or it is not a sound but only a vibration. These are some of the possibilities that I can think of off the top of my head.
                 George may be right for some of the humlings but certainly not all of us. Though, I do appreciate his input. It's good to examin all angles and possibilities. Heck, over time on here I have come to the understanding that the gas line hum is very different from my own, but that doesn't mean that either one is more or less valid as a hum.
                Suzie
                From: Arne <stonehollowmn@...>
                To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:21 PM
                Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: HUM_FORUM: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory
                 
                I respectfully disagree.  There are very few here who can hold their own on hum research, and at least one of them is a non-hearer.  I will never approach the depth of knowledge Bill Curry brings (a non-hearer, and personally involved in the Kokomo & Taos Hum investigations).
                I also believe that my hum (not necessarily yours) is otogenic – that is, created within the hearing apparatus.  I have been unsuccessful at recording it, and I have heard it in remote wilderness areas - at least 50 miles from any transportation, electrical generation, cell towers, pipelines, railroads, motor boats, etc.  I’ve also heard it in remote parts of South Dakota; basically anywhere the background noise level is low Yes, Steve has the locations.  I do not have high frequency tinnitus.
                I initially suggested pulsatile tinnitus many years ago (yes, it’s in the archives).  PLEASE NOTE: tinnitus does not have to be high pitched!  High frequency tinnitus apparently presents as “sound” to the hearer, and appears to be some sort of malfunction in the hearing apparatus between outer ear and hearing cortex.  If you are unable to record it, why would an internal “fault” not be a plausible cause?
                George Santayana is still correct.
                Arne
                Central MN, USA
                 
                From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pictoblu

                "...Those who haven't experienced the Hum and try to dismiss it as a form of tinnitus need to realize what a disservice they're doing to those who suffer from the Hum.  The Hum can be very debilitating, we need serious investigation on the cause and solutions, not diversions...."

                I agree and will carry this a bit further to add:

                What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum, doing here at this forum?

                Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum afflicted people that "it's just tinnitis"?

                Directed to the interloper(s):  Good try, but no go. We see right thru your agenda.  Lots of love to you and your bosses.  Now go back to where you came from and turn it off.
                 
              • Copsne
                To get a comparision that can be used to say for sure different hums between all of us the hum needs to be measured. The human ear is to variable and even
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 2, 2012
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                  To get a comparision that can be used to say for sure different hums between all of us the hum needs to be measured.  The human ear is to variable and even more so our interpretation. Go take a look at the Windsor hum site and they are using spectographs. I prefer FFT, but the Spectragraph is good for our purposes

                  Sent from Steve's iPhone and I appologize for typo's

                  On Aug 2, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Soozie <soozieqty1@...> wrote:

                   

                  I am sure there are some within the humling group here that have an otogenic basis for their issue, but there are also others whose source ie external for sure because of visible vibration etc. Then there is a third group that has no visible vibration and it appears to have an external source.
                   The theory's as to why we may be unable to record it , though it originates outside our body's, is that possibly it is outside of our current technological abilities, or it is outside of our range of hearing but the vibration still affects us, or it is not a sound but only a vibration. These are some of the possibilities that I can think of off the top of my head.
                   George may be right for some of the humlings but certainly not all of us. Though, I do appreciate his input. It's good to examin all angles and possibilities. Heck, over time on here I have come to the understanding that the gas line hum is very different from my own, but that doesn't mean that either one is more or less valid as a hum.
                  Suzie
                  From: Arne <stonehollowmn@...>
                  To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:21 PM
                  Subject: RE: HUM_FORUM: Re: HUM_FORUM: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory
                   
                  I respectfully disagree.  There are very few here who can hold their own on hum research, and at least one of them is a non-hearer.  I will never approach the depth of knowledge Bill Curry brings (a non-hearer, and personally involved in the Kokomo & Taos Hum investigations).
                  I also believe that my hum (not necessarily yours) is otogenic – that is, created within the hearing apparatus.  I have been unsuccessful at recording it, and I have heard it in remote wilderness areas - at least 50 miles from any transportation, electrical generation, cell towers, pipelines, railroads, motor boats, etc.  I’ve also heard it in remote parts of South Dakota; basically anywhere the background noise level is low Yes, Steve has the locations.  I do not have high frequency tinnitus.
                  I initially suggested pulsatile tinnitus many years ago (yes, it’s in the archives).  PLEASE NOTE: tinnitus does not have to be high pitched!  High frequency tinnitus apparently presents as “sound” to the hearer, and appears to be some sort of malfunction in the hearing apparatus between outer ear and hearing cortex.  If you are unable to record it, why would an internal “fault” not be a plausible cause?
                  George Santayana is still correct.
                  Arne
                  Central MN, USA
                   
                  From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pictoblu

                  "...Those who haven't experienced the Hum and try to dismiss it as a form of tinnitus need to realize what a disservice they're doing to those who suffer from the Hum.  The Hum can be very debilitating, we need serious investigation on the cause and solutions, not diversions...."

                  I agree and will carry this a bit further to add:

                  What in the world is anyone who does not suffer this dread, re: The Hum, doing here at this forum?

                  Why does any non-hearer think he has any legitimate reason to tell Hum afflicted people that "it's just tinnitis"?

                  Directed to the interloper(s):  Good try, but no go. We see right thru your agenda.  Lots of love to you and your bosses.  Now go back to where you came from and turn it off.
                   

                • goodears2
                  Amen Prof. Deming. Thank you for posting. There is no question that it is external. I get tired of being doubted when I know what I hear. I, too, have been
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 2, 2012
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                    Amen Prof. Deming. Thank you for posting.

                    There is no question that it is external. I get tired of being doubted when I know what I hear.

                    I, too, have been humless for some time (or nearly so). A couple weeks ago, when we had fair and cooler weather here in Ohio, I was relishing the peace just before heading off to work when a couple minutes after 8 am, the old hum started up again fairly softly. But it was brief. It is again beastly hot and humless, and I've had it for about as long as you describe, Prof Deming.

                    Other humlings, especially in the Midwest and Eastern US, have you had a similar break? Ohioguy, are you still observing the forum? I know you're only about an hour away from me, and I'd be very interested in learning if you've had the same humless experience.

                    I expect its return with cooler, wetter weather, but I hope we get lucky.

                    Raising a toast to humlessness,
                    Goodears2

                    --- In humforum@yahoogroups.com, David Deming <profdeming@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > There are several problems with the theory
                    > that the Hum is a form of tinnitus.
                    >
                    > One fact is that the Hum comes and goes
                    > suddenly, as if it were due to an external
                    > source. Here in central Oklahoma, the Hum
                    > has been absent for the last several months.
                    > What? Was I suddenly cured of my tinnitus
                    > for no apparent reason?
                    >
                    > Second problem: some people have both tinnitus
                    > and the Hum, and are able to distinguish between
                    > them.
                    >
                    > Third problem: tinnitus produces a a high-pitched
                    > apparent sound, while the Hum is low-ptiched.
                    >
                    > >
                    > > the Hum is a subjective sensation.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Every external stimulus is a "subjective sensation."
                    > When I see a painting, the painting is an objective
                    > external reality. Light rays bounce off the painting
                    > and convey objective information to my eyes. But how
                    > I receive and interpret this information is subjective.
                    > So stating that the Hum is "a subjective sensation," tells
                    > us nothing new or useful. All physical data analyzed
                    > by the sciences ultimately resolve to "subjective
                    > sensations."
                    >
                    > >
                    > > the fact that no one is definitely demonstrating
                    > > the source of the Hum, indicates that the Hum is
                    > > probably coming from inside your own bodies
                    > >
                    >
                    > Nonsense. This is an elementary error in logic.
                    > Our failure to corroborate the existence of an
                    > external source does not validate your theory
                    > that the source is internal. There may be many
                    > other reasons we are unable to find an external
                    > source.
                    >
                    > >
                    > > I am not personally a hum sufferer.
                    > >
                    >
                    > If you were, you probably would not be hypothesizing that
                    > the Hum is a form of tinnitus. Your failure
                    > to perceive the phenomenon puts you at a disadvantage.
                    >
                    > --DD
                    >
                  • Soozie
                    Northwest Indiana here, and I have been humless since about the end of April. I had had hand surgery right about then too, so I was not sure if that played
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 2, 2012
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                      Northwest Indiana here, and I have been humless since about the end of April. I had had hand surgery right about then too, so I was not sure if that played nito my hum stopping.
                      I praise God for the peace and quiet!
                      Suzie

                      From: goodears2 <goodears2@...>
                      To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 9:32 PM
                      Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory

                       
                      Amen Prof. Deming. Thank you for posting.

                      There is no question that it is external. I get tired of being doubted when I know what I hear.

                      I, too, have been humless for some time (or nearly so). A couple weeks ago, when we had fair and cooler weather here in Ohio, I was relishing the peace just before heading off to work when a couple minutes after 8 am, the old hum started up again fairly softly. But it was brief. It is again beastly hot and humless, and I've had it for about as long as you describe, Prof Deming.

                      Other humlings, especially in the Midwest and Eastern US, have you had a similar break? Ohioguy, are you still observing the forum? I know you're only about an hour away from me, and I'd be very interested in learning if you've had the same humless experience.

                      I expect its return with cooler, wetter weather, but I hope we get lucky.

                      Raising a toast to humlessness,
                      Goodears2

                      --- In mailto:humforum%40yahoogroups.com, David Deming <profdeming@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > There are several problems with the theory
                      > that the Hum is a form of tinnitus.
                      >
                      > One fact is that the Hum comes and goes
                      > suddenly, as if it were due to an external
                      > source. Here in central Oklahoma, the Hum
                      > has been absent for the last several months.
                      > What? Was I suddenly cured of my tinnitus
                      > for no apparent reason?
                      >
                      > Second problem: some people have both tinnitus
                      > and the Hum, and are able to distinguish between
                      > them.
                      >
                      > Third problem: tinnitus produces a a high-pitched
                      > apparent sound, while the Hum is low-ptiched.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > the Hum is a subjective sensation.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Every
                      external stimulus is a "subjective sensation."
                      > When I see a painting, the painting is an objective
                      > external reality. Light rays bounce off the painting
                      > and convey objective information to my eyes. But how
                      > I receive and interpret this information is subjective.
                      > So stating that the Hum is "a subjective sensation," tells
                      > us nothing new or useful. All physical data analyzed
                      > by the sciences ultimately resolve to "subjective
                      > sensations."
                      >
                      > >
                      > > the fact that no one is definitely demonstrating
                      > > the source of the Hum, indicates that the Hum is
                      > > probably coming from inside your own bodies
                      > >
                      >
                      > Nonsense. This is an elementary error in logic.
                      > Our failure to corroborate the existence of an
                      > external source does not validate your theory
                      > that the source is internal. There may be many
                      > other reasons
                      we are unable to find an external
                      > source.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I am not personally a hum sufferer.
                      > >
                      >
                      > If you were, you probably would not be hypothesizing that
                      > the Hum is a form of tinnitus. Your failure
                      > to perceive the phenomenon puts you at a disadvantage.
                      >
                      > --DD
                      >



                    • veiled.mystery
                      Hi Suzie, Yes, i agree that anybody, whether hum hearer or not, should be allowed to post theories and thoughts, but i also think that if the person is a non
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 3, 2012
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                        Hi Suzie,
                        Yes, i agree that anybody, whether hum hearer or not, should be allowed to post theories and thoughts, but i also think that if the person is a non hearer they should at least do a little research before posting anything so that they do not offend those who do hear it by coming out with theories that bear no resemblance to the facts, i realize that Mark did not mean to upset anyone and was just trying to help but if i had a penny for every time that i have heard someone say "It's just Tinnitus" i would be a Millionaire by now.
                        I was not being nasty to Mark Jordon when i said what i did in post 15505, i was simply asking him to get a clue as to what it is like to live with this curse 24/7 before commenting, i personally spent weeks reading through the old posts, quite literally starting from post number 1, and made a list of all the theories that had already been debated and noted the groups reaction to that theory before i first signed up to this group and posted anything, just to make sure i wouldn't repeat a theory that had been proven to be wrong and irritating the hell out of the group members.
                        The only exception to that being when someone tried to say that HAARP was harmless, i did comment on old theories then because i know that HAARP is far from harmless, but even then i said my piece and then dropped the subject again.
                        I would be happy to hear an alternative theory from anyone, hum hearer or non hearer if they have done their research and come up with either a completely new theory or even a new twist to an old theory, it just annoys me when someone claims to want to help but hasn't even done enough research to know the basics facts of what is going on.

                        --- In humforum@yahoogroups.com, Soozie <soozieqty1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I agree with both descriptive's of he hum experience. I would also add that it is perfectly acceptable for other people, whether humlings or not, to ask questions and/ or pose theories or thoughts. We all must remain open minded and also kind to new people because they are learning about our affliction. Allowing them to learn and grow can only help to bring awareness to our issues. I truly appreciate the effort that went into thinking about our hum especially since he doesn't even suffer it himself. The cause he posed was presented out of innocence and not meant to derail anyone, I'm sure. We must remain kind to others as they learn about us and not automatically see it as an attack. It's all a learning process.
                        > Suzie
                      • Steve Kohlhase
                        3 weeks ago for 2 or 3 days very low to nothing perceivable.  Low frequency signatures were still measurable thou.  Indicating that there is a threashold the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 3, 2012
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                          3 weeks ago for 2 or 3 days very low to nothing perceivable.  Low frequency signatures were still measurable thou.  Indicating that there is a threashold the intensity must reach for me to begin perception of any kind.  After those 3 days back up to either extreme or mid levels.  So the response is no long period relief here in CT.
                           
                          Steve

                          From: goodears2 <goodears2@...>
                          To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 10:32 PM
                          Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Criticisms of the Tinnitus Theory

                           
                          Amen Prof. Deming. Thank you for posting.

                          There is no question that it is external. I get tired of being doubted when I know what I hear.

                          I, too, have been humless for some time (or nearly so). A couple weeks ago, when we had fair and cooler weather here in Ohio, I was relishing the peace just before heading off to work when a couple minutes after 8 am, the old hum started up again fairly softly. But it was brief. It is again beastly hot and humless, and I've had it for about as long as you describe, Prof Deming.

                          Other humlings, especially in the Midwest and Eastern US, have you had a similar break? Ohioguy, are you still observing the forum? I know you're only about an hour away from me, and I'd be very interested in learning if you've had the same humless experience.

                          I expect its return with cooler, wetter weather, but I hope we get lucky.

                          Raising a toast to humlessness,
                          Goodears2

                          --- In mailto:humforum%40yahoogroups.com, David Deming <profdeming@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > There are several problems with the theory
                          > that the Hum is a form of tinnitus.
                          >
                          > One fact is that the Hum comes and goes
                          > suddenly, as if it were due to an external
                          > source. Here in central Oklahoma, the Hum
                          > has been absent for the last several months.
                          > What? Was I suddenly cured of my tinnitus
                          > for no apparent reason?
                          >
                          > Second problem: some people have both tinnitus
                          > and the Hum, and are able to distinguish between
                          > them.
                          >
                          > Third problem: tinnitus produces a a high-pitched
                          > apparent sound, while the Hum is low-ptiched.
                          >
                          > >
                          > > the Hum is a subjective sensation.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Every external stimulus is a "subjective sensation."
                          > When I see a painting, the painting is an objective
                          > external reality. Light rays bounce off the painting
                          > and convey objective information to my eyes. But how
                          > I receive and interpret this information is subjective.
                          > So stating that the Hum is "a subjective sensation," tells
                          > us nothing new or useful. All physical data analyzed
                          > by the sciences ultimately resolve to "subjective
                          > sensations."
                          >
                          > >
                          > > the fact that no one is definitely demonstrating
                          > > the source of the Hum, indicates that the Hum is
                          > > probably coming from inside your own bodies
                          > >
                          >
                          > Nonsense. This is an elementary error in logic.
                          > Our failure to corroborate the existence of an
                          > external source does not validate your theory
                          > that the source is internal. There may be many
                          > other reasons we are unable to find an external
                          > source.
                          >
                          > >
                          > > I am not personally a hum sufferer.
                          > >
                          >
                          > If you were, you probably would not be hypothesizing that
                          > the Hum is a form of tinnitus. Your failure
                          > to perceive the phenomenon puts you at a disadvantage.
                          >
                          > --DD
                          >



                        • Arne
                          Indeed (hum needs to be measured), and the instrumentation used needs to be carefully considered for the proposed application (and reviewed) – and replicated
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 24, 2012
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                            Indeed (hum needs to be measured), and the instrumentation used needs to be carefully considered for the proposed application (and reviewed) – and replicated by an independent observer. 

                            Fast Fourier Transform (http://www.phys.nsu.ru/cherk/fft.pdf)  is a powerful tool, when used appropriately.  But it also makes it extremely easy to analyze… noise.  I have seen this done in the worst possible manner, used to document extraordinarily “dangerous” sound levels in a pump.  Turns out the technician was analyzing electronic noise from the equipment.

                            Tinnitus is not a constant affliction.  My mother has good days (absent high frequency tinnitus) and bad days.  Low frequency tinnitus is exceedingly rare.  “My hum” was completely absent last night, for the first time in months.  No unusual weather conditions (calm, light breeze, clear), Sunday night, no change in food, supplements, exercise, meds.  We’ll see what tonight brings.

                            You can state your belief that the hum is external, but that does NOT make it true.  Do NOT substitute the conclusion for the basis.  I’m keeping an open mind.  Are you?

                            Arne

                            Central MN USA

                             

                            From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Copsne
                             

                            To get a comparision that can be used to say for sure different hums between all of us the hum needs to be measured.  The human ear is to variable and even more so our interpretation. Go take a look at the Windsor hum site and they are using spectographs. I prefer FFT, but the Spectragraph is good for our purposes

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