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Re: HUM_FORUM: Re:Relief from the hum

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  • Zack Widup
    [Moderator s Note: We are reinventing the wheel here. Faraday cages have been discussed ad nauseam on this forum for years. The point has been made
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 10, 2010
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      There is such a thing as a Faraday Cage which eliminates�all electromagnetic energy inside the cage. It is usually made of copper screen.�They are often used for antenna and equipment testing.
      �
      That makes me think - has any hum sufferer ever stepped into a Faraday cage for any length of time and did it have any effect on their hum perception? If not, that would rule out electromagnetic causes in at least that one case.

      Zack
      �
      �
      On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Mharlyn Merritt <mharlynmerritt@...> wrote:


      Has anyone had any success with the use of magnets, copper mesh curtains or antihistemines? I read about these things offering some relief, also large crystals. I had some minimal success with� magnets and crystals. Also, short blasts of loud music from the radio (any port in a storm). Just looking for any short or long terms solutions to offer relief. Is someone compiling a list? If so, where can I find it?

      I've read on this site about someone's encounter with a doctor, who sounded like a knucklehead. Any encounters with a biophysicist?




    • Arne
      Not true. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage (my emphasis). If you don t believe Wiki, use their references. Faraday cages cannot block static
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 10, 2010
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        Not true.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage (my emphasis).  If you don’t believe Wiki, use their references.

        “Faraday cages cannot block static and slowly varying magnetic fields, such as Earth's magnetic field (a compass will still work inside). To a large degree though, they also shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the radiation's wavelength.”

         

        Arne

        Central MN USA

         

        From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zack Widup
         

        There is such a thing as a Faraday Cage which eliminates all electromagnetic energy inside the cage

      • glitchinmymatrix
        Never heard of copper mesh curtains, and I haven t tried antihistamines. Actually, I have tried magnets without realizing it; they are the in-ear type (Apple
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 12, 2010
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          Never heard of copper mesh curtains, and I haven't tried antihistamines.

          Actually, I have tried magnets without realizing it; they are the in-ear type (Apple makes them). I sit at the computer with headphones in my ear for several hours nearly every day. I don't notice things being worse when they are in, or any other pattern with them.

          I mentioned a doctor less than a month ago, who as I said would not stop referring to it as a ringing. He also gave me a pamphlet for some vitamins, with his office information stamps on the back. (Some commission based program I'm sure.) I really felt like what I was saying was falling on deaf ears. When I told him that the hum noise is greatly reduced the second I step out of the door, he retorted that tinnitus can be the same. (I'd never read that.)

          Anyway, I've never seen a biophysicist, and after a while, I've become used to people not knowing what to say. Their silence I interpret as "you sound crazy, but I can't say that." It's embarrassing.

          As far as what I find helps: staying outside, of course. I was out earlier today and the break from the noise is helpful even if it will start up again in the house again. White noise helps a lot; I use a box fan (helper than white noise machines I think). Other than this, I might be unique in this, but I drank a lot more after the hum started, and I was already a heavy drinker. I can say with 100% certainty that drinking is a sure-fire way to get those vibrations in my bed again. I stopped drinking very heavily, and the hum pretty much disappeared...I thought it was over, but eventually it came back. I won't feel them while I'm drinking, but they'll start as soon as I begin to sober up and persist for a few days before eventually fading away. The hum is also stronger during this time, but lately overall the hum has not been bothersome at all for me...BUT, I have had an ear infection in my left ear that I've never had in my life (that I remember). That cleared up with antibiotics, and now my other ear is killing me. Again, I've never had problems with my ears or been the type to get sick at all. I suspect that staying indoors and being cold and not exercising enough certainly has something to do with it, but I certainly wouldn't rule out the vibrations (especially) and the hum.

          That said, I can tell you what makes it worse for me on a consistent basis. If I hum to myself like I'm singing, it makes the hum worse immediately after I stop, but it will not cause the hum to start up if I'm not already hearing it. I haven't figured out why this is true, but I've experimented several times, and it's consistent. It doesn't matter if the pitch is higher or lower, but higher seems to be worse for me.

          Hope this helps somehow.


          --- In humforum@yahoogroups.com, Mharlyn Merritt <mharlynmerritt@...> wrote:
          >
          > Has anyone had any success with the use of magnets, copper mesh curtains or antihistemines? I read about these things offering some relief, also large crystals. I had some minimal success with magnets and crystals. Also, short blasts of loud music from the radio (any port in a storm). Just looking for any short or long terms solutions to offer relief. Is someone compiling a list? If so, where can I find it?
          >
          > I've read on this site about someone's encounter with a doctor, who sounded like a knucklehead. Any encounters with a biophysicist?
          >
        • Richard Dudley
          I have a little program that I got for free (I think) from the web called Audacity. It is a little program for making music and sounds and for taking segments
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 14, 2010
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            I have a little program that I got for free (I think) from the web called Audacity.  It is a little program for making music and sounds and for taking segments out of a sound file etc.

             

            It has an option for generating sounds with a specific frequency, so I decided to see what frequencies at the low end I could hear and which frequencies corresponded to low frequency sound I hear (mostly I think from traffic on a nearby highway).

             

            My hum seems to be 120 to 150 Hz (if I use a sign wave), but I found that I can actually sense sounds down to about 10 Hz.  Below about 80 Hz I can’t really “hear” it but I can feel it…. I can tell when it is on or off, but I don’t really hear a sound in the normal sense.  

             

            The program can also generate sounds with a square wave and saw-tooth pattern.  The sawtooth pattern seemed to be more realistic.  Using these at very low freq produces a pattern of pulses, but above about 20Hz produces sounds with more of a “vibration” to them and sounds more like a hum when I use sounds of about 30 -60 Hz, but it sounds a bit too much like a buzz.   A saw-tooth pattern at 40Hz will definitely cause irritation!!  Recall that 60Hz is the frequency used in all your electrical wiring in the US (usually 50 elsewhere). 

             

            Real road noise produces a combination of frequencies and these travel at different speeds through air (and the ground).  So what you hear at a distance will not be like what you hear near a road.  The effect if the road is coming toward you (as in my case) will be even more “interesting” ;-(  .

             

            Anyway, I thought you’d be interesting in my little experiments.  If you try this be careful as the sounds, although not loud, can be quite irritating … of course we already knew that!   (I read somewhere that the more energy is required for low frequency sound to be heard by the human ear, so the amount of energy hitting the ear is higher…. thus ear damage from too much base. So be careful listening to those low freqs.)

             

            Richard

          • Richard Dudley
            A little follow-up. I also ran some tests using combinations of lower frequency sounds. For example 20 Hz and 29Hz add up to an interesting sound very much
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 15, 2010
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              A little follow-up.  I also ran some “tests” using combinations of lower frequency sounds.  For example 20 Hz and 29Hz add up to an interesting sound very much like the hum I hear.

               

              In other words, a combination of lower frequency sounds that we wouldn’t be able to hear individually will add up to one we can hear. 

               

              More later - Richard

               

              From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley
              Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:07 AM
              To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: HUM_FORUM: Low Freq Sound tests

               

               

              I have a little program that I got for free (I think) from the web called Audacity.  It is a little program for making music and sounds and for taking segments out of a sound file etc.

               

              It has an option for generating sounds with a specific frequency, so I decided to see what frequencies at the low end I could hear and which frequencies corresponded to low frequency sound I hear (mostly I think from traffic on a nearby highway).

               

              My hum seems to be 120 to 150 Hz (if I use a sign wave), but I found that I can actually sense sounds down to about 10 Hz.  Below about 80 Hz I can’t really “hear” it but I can feel it…. I can tell when it is on or off, but I don’t really hear a sound in the normal sense.  

               

              The program can also generate sounds with a square wave and saw-tooth pattern.  The sawtooth pattern seemed to be more realistic.  Using these at very low freq produces a pattern of pulses, but above about 20Hz produces sounds with more of a “vibration” to them and sounds more like a hum when I use sounds of about 30 -60 Hz, but it sounds a bit too much like a buzz.   A saw-tooth pattern at 40Hz will definitely cause irritation!!  Recall that 60Hz is the frequency used in all your electrical wiring in the US (usually 50 elsewhere). 

               

              Real road noise produces a combination of frequencies and these travel at different speeds through air (and the ground).  So what you hear at a distance will not be like what you hear near a road.  The effect if the road is coming toward you (as in my case) will be even more “interesting” ;-(  .

               

              Anyway, I thought you’d be interesting in my little experiments.  If you try this be careful as the sounds, although not loud, can be quite irritating … of course we already knew that!   (I read somewhere that the more energy is required for low frequency sound to be heard by the human ear, so the amount of energy hitting the ear is higher…. thus ear damage from too much base. So be careful listening to those low freqs.)

               

              Richard

            • Carole C
              Richard... Normally you should be able to actually hear sounds down to around 20 Hz, give or take. Do you have a good subwoofer hooked up to your computer?
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 16, 2010
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                Richard...  Normally you should be able to actually hear sounds down to around 20 Hz, give or take.  Do you have a good subwoofer hooked up to your computer?  If not, it might be that your speakers just aren't delivering the lower frequency sounds. 
                 
                A friend who plays pipe organ told me that the lowest note on a pipe organ is around 16.5 Hz, and he can hear that.  I played around with a tone generator on my computer, with a subwoofer hooked up, and was able to hear sounds lower than that.  (Even though everybody says it's impossible!)
                 
                BTW...  If you hook a subwoofer up to your computer, don't make the same mistake I did.  The subwoofer I have has a volume control on it...  And I discovered that the signal from the computer is a LOT stronger than the signal from my little CD player.  I hooked up my subwoofer, turned the computer on, and when the little start-up theme started to play the resultant noise damn near blew my walls out! 
                 
                Carole
                 
                "There is no tree in the forest that is straight, though all are reaching for the light, and trying to grow straight."
                Ernest Thompson Seton, The Gospel of the Redman
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:07 AM
                Subject: HUM_FORUM: Low Freq Sound tests

                I have a little program that I got for free (I think) from the web called Audacity.  It is a little program for making music and sounds and for taking segments out of a sound file etc.

                 

                It has an option for generating sounds with a specific frequency, so I decided to see what frequencies at the low end I could hear and which frequencies corresponded to low frequency sound I hear (mostly I think from traffic on a nearby highway).

                 

                My hum seems to be 120 to 150 Hz (if I use a sign wave), but I found that I can actually sense sounds down to about 10 Hz.  Below about 80 Hz I can’t really “hear” it but I can feel it…. I can tell when it is on or off, but I don’t really hear a sound in the normal sense.  

                 

                The program can also generate sounds with a square wave and saw-tooth pattern.  The sawtooth pattern seemed to be more realistic.  Using these at very low freq produces a pattern of pulses, but above about 20Hz produces sounds with more of a “vibration” to them and sounds more like a hum when I use sounds of about 30 -60 Hz, but it sounds a bit too much like a buzz.   A saw-tooth pattern at 40Hz will definitely cause irritation!!  Recall that 60Hz is the frequency used in all your electrical wiring in the US (usually 50 elsewhere). 

                 

                Real road noise produces a combination of frequencies and these travel at different speeds through air (and the ground).  So what you hear at a distance will not be like what you hear near a road.  The effect if the road is coming toward you (as in my case) will be even more “interesting” ;-(  .

                 

                Anyway, I thought you’d be interesting in my little experiments.  If you try this be careful as the sounds, although not loud, can be quite irritating … of course we already knew that!   (I read somewhere that the more energy is required for low frequency sound to be heard by the human ear, so the amount of energy hitting the ear is higher…. thus ear damage from too much base. So be careful listening to those low freqs.)

                 

                Richard

              • pictoblu
                That s interesting. Keep in mind that when one frequency is played into one ear and another frequency is played into another ear, the freqs subtract and the
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 18, 2010
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                  That's interesting.

                  Keep in mind that when one frequency is played into one ear and another frequency is played into another ear, the freqs subtract and the remainder is actually what is interpreted/heard.

                  However, it reads like you played both freqs thru the same speaker(s), not one freq thru one speaker and the other freq thru a different speaker?

                  BTW-I know that 'they' say that we can hear only a specific range of frequencies, but that same 'they' will also say that the hum is tinnitus.

                  Julie

                  --- In humforum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Dudley" <rgdudley@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A little follow-up. I also ran some "tests" using combinations of lower
                  > frequency sounds. For example 20 Hz and 29Hz add up to an interesting sound
                  > very much like the hum I hear.>
                  >
                  > In other words, a combination of lower frequency sounds that we wouldn't be
                  > able to hear individually will add up to one we can hear.
                  >
                  > More later - Richard
                • Richard Dudley
                  Yes I was just using the earbuds from my iPhone not a very good method to listen to low freqs! I am using a laptop, but one of these days I will try it on a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 22, 2010
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                    Yes I was just using the earbuds from my iPhone not a very good method to listen to low freqs!

                     

                    I am using a laptop, but one of these days I will try it on a bigger speaker.

                     

                    From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carole C
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:00 PM
                    To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: HUM_FORUM: Low Freq Sound tests

                     

                     

                    Richard...  Normally you should be able to actually hear sounds down to around 20 Hz, give or take.  Do you have a good subwoofer hooked up to your computer?  If not, it might be that your speakers just aren't delivering the lower frequency sounds. 

                     

                    A friend who plays pipe organ told me that the lowest note on a pipe organ is around 16.5 Hz, and he can hear that.  I played around with a tone generator on my computer, with a subwoofer hooked up, and was able to hear sounds lower than that.  (Even though everybody says it's impossible!)

                     

                    BTW...  If you hook a subwoofer up to your computer, don't make the same mistake I did.  The subwoofer I have has a volume control on it...  And I discovered that the signal from the computer is a LOT stronger than the signal from my little CD player.  I hooked up my subwoofer, turned the computer on, and when the little start-up theme started to play the resultant noise damn near blew my walls out! 

                     

                    Carole

                     

                    "There is no tree in the forest that is straight, though all are reaching for the light, and trying to grow straight."
                    Ernest Thompson Seton, The Gospel of the Redman

                     

                     

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:07 AM

                    Subject: HUM_FORUM: Low Freq Sound tests

                     

                    I have a little program that I got for free (I think) from the web called Audacity.  It is a little program for making music and sounds and for taking segments out of a sound file etc.

                     

                    It has an option for generating sounds with a specific frequency, so I decided to see what frequencies at the low end I could hear and which frequencies corresponded to low frequency sound I hear (mostly I think from traffic on a nearby highway).

                     

                    My hum seems to be 120 to 150 Hz (if I use a sign wave), but I found that I can actually sense sounds down to about 10 Hz.  Below about 80 Hz I can’t really “hear” it but I can feel it…. I can tell when it is on or off, but I don’t really hear a sound in the normal sense.  

                     

                    The program can also generate sounds with a square wave and saw-tooth pattern.  The sawtooth pattern seemed to be more realistic.  Using these at very low freq produces a pattern of pulses, but above about 20Hz produces sounds with more of a “vibration” to them and sounds more like a hum when I use sounds of about 30 -60 Hz, but it sounds a bit too much like a buzz.   A saw-tooth pattern at 40Hz will definitely cause irritation!!  Recall that 60Hz is the frequency used in all your electrical wiring in the US (usually 50 elsewhere). 

                     

                    Real road noise produces a combination of frequencies and these travel at different speeds through air (and the ground).  So what you hear at a distance will not be like what you hear near a road.  The effect if the road is coming toward you (as in my case) will be even more “interesting” ;-(  .

                     

                    Anyway, I thought you’d be interesting in my little experiments.  If you try this be careful as the sounds, although not loud, can be quite irritating … of course we already knew that!   (I read somewhere that the more energy is required for low frequency sound to be heard by the human ear, so the amount of energy hitting the ear is higher…. thus ear damage from too much base. So be careful listening to those low freqs.)

                     

                    Richard

                  • Donna Few
                    Hi Zack et al, Don t know nothin about this, but I ve heard of combating/reducing noise with sand. Engineers used sand to reduce noise of rollercoasters. 
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 28, 2010
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                      Hi Zack et al,

                      Don't know nothin' about this, but I've heard of combating/reducing noise with sand. Engineers used sand to reduce noise of rollercoasters.  I'm thinking that placing sand into under bed storage bins might help some sufferers reduce noise and vibrations caused by the hum.

                      Good luck all !  With love,

                      Donna

                      --- On Wed, 3/10/10, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:

                      From: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...>
                      Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: HUM_FORUM: Re:Relief from the hum
                      To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 10:35 PM



                      There is such a thing as a Faraday Cage which eliminates�all electromagnetic energy inside the cage. It is usually made of copper screen.�They are often used for antenna and equipment testing.
                      �
                      That makes me think - has any hum sufferer ever stepped into a Faraday cage for any length of time and did it have any effect on their hum perception? If not, that would rule out electromagnetic causes in at least that one case.

                      Zack
                      �
                      �
                      On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Mharlyn Merritt <mharlynmerritt@...> wrote:


                      Has anyone had any success with the use of magnets, copper mesh curtains or antihistemines? I read about these things offering some relief, also large crystals. I had some minimal success with� magnets and crystals. Also, short blasts of loud music from the radio (any port in a storm). Just looking for any short or long terms solutions to offer relief. Is someone compiling a list? If so, where can I find it?

                      I've read on this site about someone's encounter with a doctor, who sounded like a knucklehead. Any encounters with a biophysicist?







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