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Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?

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  • zaday
    Hi all, I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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      Hi all,

      I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
      same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
      symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
      doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
      symptoms.

      Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
      that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
      Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
      studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
      industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
      sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
      specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
      someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
      sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
      It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
      Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.

      Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
      knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
      a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
      something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
      perceived by the senses.

      We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
      guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
      evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
      of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
      for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
      later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
      asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.

      It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
      but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
      remainder? I'd love to know.

      Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
      electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
      exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
      discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
      all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.

      Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
      cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
      much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
      is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
      HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
      activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
      discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
      impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.

      It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
      weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
      suggestions are impractical.

      Be well all,

      Jim

      >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
      >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
      >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
      >at night.
      >
      >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
      >
      >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
      >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
      >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
      >
      >--DD
    • Sandra Shultz
      Hi Jim, Thank you for your post. I m in total agreement. When someone tries to make me out to be a fool..... I stop posting for a while. I can t seem to
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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        Hi Jim,

        Thank you for your post. I'm in total agreement.

        When someone tries to make me out to be a fool..... I stop posting for a while. I can't seem to stay away though. I appreciate your thoughtfull replies. Thank you again.

        Sandra

        In humforum@yahoogroups.com, "zaday" <zaday@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
        > same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
        > symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
        > doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
        > symptoms.
        >
        > Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
        > that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
        > Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
        > studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
        > industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
        > sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
        > specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
        > someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
        > sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
        > It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
        > Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.
        >
        > Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
        > knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
        > a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
        > something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
        > perceived by the senses.
        >
        > We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
        > guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
        > evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
        > of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
        > for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
        > later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
        > asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.
        >
        > It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
        > but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
        > remainder? I'd love to know.
        >
        > Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
        > electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
        > exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
        > discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
        > all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.
        >
        > Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
        > cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
        > much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
        > is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
        > HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
        > activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
        > discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
        > impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.
        >
        > It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
        > weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
        > suggestions are impractical.
        >
        > Be well all,
        >
        > Jim
        >
        > >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
        > >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
        > >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
        > >at night.
        > >
        > >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
        > >
        > >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
        > >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
        > >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
        > >
        > >--DD
        >
      • GeoffWood
        ... On the other hand evidence of others just because is disagrees with one s own should not be automatically dismissed as anecdotal , but could be in fact
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Sandra Shultz


          > > We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
          > > guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
          > > evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation.

          On the other hand evidence of others just because is disagrees with one's
          own should not be automatically dismissed as 'anecdotal', but could be in
          fact factual and reasoned.
          Believing and agreeing implicitly win everything that everybody suggests is
          just plain fluffy - and does not get anybody any closer to understanding or
          overcoming, and coping with the Hum.

          The forum then becomes simply a repository for those who wish to vent their
          frustration and ideas which can range from 'likely' to 'possible' to
          'unlikely' to 'absolutely impossible' to 'outright crackpot' (not referring
          to this forum in particular). It would seem many have an agenda which
          includes denial of the obvious.

          Do people not WANT to know the truth ? If that means suggesting somebody's
          idea may in fact be incorrect, and solid evidence is offered to demonstrate
          that, is that not a GAIN for EVERYBODY who has a genuine interest ?

          And if, say, YOUR theory is the subject of scrutiny and dismissed for no
          rational reason, should you not feel justified in pointing that unfair
          dismissal out ?

          What I feel is NOT acceptable is the vicious demonization of somebody who's
          expertise and research is ridiculed (and NOT disproven) just because their
          idea does not involve, conspiracy, negation of other totally known and
          understood physics, extraordinary pseudo-scienctific 'theories', aliens, and
          supe***ural things that we are not even allowed to mention in this forum,
          that are popular beliefs/explanations.

          geoff
        • David Deming
          This forum is not for the discussion of ordinary environmental noises, such as railroad engines, or other industrial sources of noise. If someone truly
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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            This forum is not for the discussion of ordinary
            environmental noises, such as railroad engines,
            or other industrial sources of noise.

            If someone truly believes that is what they
            are hearing, they should drop off the forum.

            --DD


            -----Original Message-----
            From: zaday
            Sent: Jun 1, 2009 3:00 PM
            To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?



            Hi all,

            I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
            same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
            symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
            doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
            symptoms.

            Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
            that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
            Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
            studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
            industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
            sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
            specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
            someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
            sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
            It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
            Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.

            Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
            knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
            a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
            something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
            perceived by the senses.

            We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
            guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
            evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
            of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
            for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
            later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
            asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.

            It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
            but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
            remainder? I'd love to know.

            Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
            electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
            exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
            discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
            all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.

            Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
            cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
            much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
            is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
            HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
            activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
            discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
            impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.

            It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
            weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
            suggestions are impractical.

            Be well all,

            Jim

            >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
            >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
            >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
            >at night.
            >
            >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
            >
            >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
            >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
            >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
            >
            >--DD

          • zaday
            Hi Geoff, Sure, tell me the truth Geoff, I m only to glad to hear it. Tell me what the mechanism is that causes the hum in 100% of the people that hear it. If
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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              Hi Geoff,

              Sure, tell me the truth Geoff, I'm only to glad to hear it. Tell me what
              the mechanism is that causes the hum in 100% of the people that hear it.
              If I disagree, I'll mentally note what you say and try and determine if
              specific cases I subsequently read about may somehow be caused by your
              suggestion. I'll do this for the suggestions of the other forum posters
              as well.

              I suspect you're reading into my post what you want to, not what's
              actually there. I never said agree with what everyone says, I simply
              said that it is of little value to constantly argue the point. I also
              said that absent a known cause, saying that the other person is wrong is
              wrong in itself.

              I'll not respond to you further on this issue, I shan't banter, yet I'll
              gladly entertain ideas that you or anyone else has about the origins of
              the HUM or hums. I'd also be glad to respond to HUM related posts that
              you make.

              Be well Geoff,

              Jim
            • zaday
              Hi David, Never expected this from you, so much angry activity occurs on the forum without your comment, only to be blindsided on a post about railroads as a
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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                Hi David,

                Never expected this from you, so much angry activity occurs on the forum
                without your comment, only to be blindsided on a post about railroads as
                a possible cause for a few of the members.

                Every day is a better day.

                Be well,

                Jim

                >Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?
                >
                >
                >This forum is not for the discussion of ordinary
                >environmental noises, such as railroad engines,
                >or other industrial sources of noise.
                >
                >If someone truly believes that is what they
                >are hearing, they should drop off the forum.
                >
                >--DD
              • Geoff Wood
                ... You know my theory , but I won t repeat it - if I do I only seem to engender flames, direct hate-mail, and people (presumably intentionally) sending me
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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                  zaday wrote:
                  > Hi Geoff,
                  >
                  > Sure, tell me the truth Geoff, I'm only to glad to hear it. Tell me
                  > what
                  > the mechanism is that causes the hum in 100% of the people that hear
                  > it.
                  > If I disagree, I'll mentally note what you say and try and determine
                  > if
                  > specific cases I subsequently read about may somehow be caused by your
                  > suggestion. I'll do this for the suggestions of the other forum
                  > posters
                  > as well.

                  You know my 'theory', but I won't repeat it - if I do I only seem to
                  engender flames, direct hate-mail, and people (presumably intentionally)
                  sending me viruses.


                  > I suspect you're reading into my post what you want to, not what's
                  > actually there.

                  Maybe. But you seemed to wish that flawed ideas not be challenged.

                  geoff
                • Geoff Wood
                  ... I agree. The talk of railroads (etc) is valid if only to dismiss that sort of thing as being The Hum, as opposed a a hum . But subsequently should be
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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                    zaday wrote:
                    > Hi David,
                    >
                    > Never expected this from you, so much angry activity occurs on the
                    > forum
                    > without your comment, only to be blindsided on a post about railroads
                    > as
                    > a possible cause for a few of the members.
                    >
                    > Every day is a better day.
                    >
                    > Be well,


                    I agree. The talk of railroads (etc) is valid if only to dismiss that sort
                    of thing as being The Hum, as opposed a 'a hum'. But subsequently should be
                    dropped.

                    geoff
                  • Mark Jordan
                    Hi Jim, Tom and all,   Thanks for the final answer to the SWER possibility. However, I am not concerned with Swer or other systems. I am not sure what that
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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                      Hi Jim, Tom and all,
                       
                      Thanks for the final answer to the SWER possibility. However, I am not concerned with Swer or other systems. I am not sure what that system is but I remember a strange type of power line crossing Range 72 at Eglin AFB Florida. It had only one line overhead and a continuous copper conductor shadowing the overhead line but buried in the earth underneath. That particular power line was destroyed when a Hellfire missile knocked out the remote control steering on an M60 tank. The tank pulled down a long stretch of the line. The tank eventually ran off into a creek and got stuck.
                       
                      What I do know is my association of lightning hot spots and fire clusters with transformer configurations cannot be disputed. I was only wondering if there might be an association with the hum. I've heard power lines hum but that is only my anecdotal and subjective observation.
                       
                      Only a few days ago, I visited one of these event clusters where bad things happen. A month ago there was a house fire on a T transformer. I went to a house on the opposite T to repair a refrigerator. The resident there had his voice box removed from cancer. His wife had a stroke and was recuperating in a facility when she fell and hit her head and died. I told the man about the patterns that I study and he referred me to his neighbor. That neighbor had a tree in his back yard that was struck by lightning four times in one month. Not unusual to me. The elevation is 423' above sea level and the house is exactly crossed by a soil boundary. 423' is the elevational constant of the lightning zone in that area. I am unable to find any events that are not confined to my patterns.
                       
                      Locally, I cannot study the hum. We have too many oilfield compressors running. We pump natural gas all the way to Chicago and New York. We have gas pipelines here that are 48" in diameter and have pressures over 400 pounds. We pump gas back into the earth into large caverns all summer long. Some of these compressor stations have over 20 12 cylinder compressors with pistons 12 inches in diameter. At least one is down at all times being rebuilt. Within twenty miles of my house there are at least a dozen large compressors running.
                       
                      I don't hear the hum or any humming other than compressors. I hate the compressor noise and I even hate hearing air conditioner compressors run.
                       
                      I am wondering if anyone has tried listening to pipes and electric poles with a stethescope or with an amplifier type hearing aide? I can't find any good studies on the subject. Can anyone direct me to some?
                       
                      Mark S. Jordan
                       


                      --- On Mon, 6/1/09, zaday <zaday@...> wrote:

                      From: zaday <zaday@...>
                      Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?
                      To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 3:00 PM

                      Hi all,

                      I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
                      same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
                      symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
                      doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
                      symptoms.

                      Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
                      that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
                      Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
                      studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
                      industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
                      sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
                      specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
                      someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
                      sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
                      It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
                      Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.

                      Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
                      knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
                      a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
                      something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
                      perceived by the senses.

                      We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
                      guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
                      evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
                      of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
                      for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
                      later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
                      asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.

                      It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
                      but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
                      remainder? I'd love to know.

                      Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
                      electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
                      exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
                      discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
                      all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.

                      Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
                      cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
                      much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
                      is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
                      HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
                      activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
                      discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
                      impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.

                      It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
                      weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
                      suggestions are impractical.

                      Be well all,

                      Jim

                      >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
                      >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
                      >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
                      >at night.
                      >
                      >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
                      >
                      >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
                      >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
                      >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
                      >
                      >--DD


                    • Arne
                      Fortunately, I’ve been unable to locate pipes or electric poles in the wilderness (here èhttp://www.queticopark.com/maps/). J I do hear it there, well
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
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                        Fortunately, I’ve been unable to locate pipes or electric poles in the wilderness (here èhttp://www.queticopark.com/maps/).  J

                        I do hear it there, well north of the US border in the Canadian wilderness.   And I’m not the only one.  For me, any solution has to address that fact.

                         

                        Arne

                        Central MN USA

                         

                        From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Jordan

                        I am wondering if anyone has tried listening to pipes and electric poles with a stethescope or with an amplifier type hearing aide? I can't find any good studies on the subject...

                        .

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