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RE: HUM_FORUM: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?

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  • GeoffWood
    ... The Hum is rarely at a frequency or amplitude that it takes any sort of super-sensitivity to detect. When I get my ear blockage with attendant huge bass
    Message 1 of 13 , May 31, 2009
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Jerry Cummings
      >
      > I live in the Florida Panhandle - when I first started hearing the
      > "hum" I lived in rural Southern Illinois - I may have been hearing it
      > earlier but lived for many years in urban Miami/Dade and with all the
      > ambient noise - who knew?
      > I tell you this because yesterday my sister who lives in the SW tip
      > of Indiana (about 16 miles from Evansville - called me with what she
      > thought was a very exciting revelation - she says she has found the
      > source of her horrible and debilitating "hum" - from the trains that
      > are about a mile away from where she lives

      The Hum is rarely at a frequency or amplitude that it takes any sort of
      'super-sensitivity' to detect.

      When I get my ear blockage with attendant huge bass boost, I often hear
      trains that pass around 1km from my house, sounding as if they were much
      nearer. This is totally NOT my Hum sound(s), though one variant is similar
      to an engine idling in the distance. I hear that one both at home ( there
      are no engines that idle for hours within many many miles) as well as up
      mountains many tens of miles from any train (or other engine type) depot,
      and most recently hundreds of miles out at sea.

      It is so sad that people are driven to ssuch extremes of desparation by this
      debilitating affliction, that is made worse by not understanding ( or
      choosing not to believe in) the very simple explanation of what it is.

      geoff
    • zaday
      Hi all, I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
        Hi all,

        I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
        same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
        symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
        doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
        symptoms.

        Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
        that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
        Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
        studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
        industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
        sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
        specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
        someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
        sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
        It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
        Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.

        Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
        knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
        a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
        something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
        perceived by the senses.

        We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
        guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
        evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
        of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
        for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
        later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
        asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.

        It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
        but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
        remainder? I'd love to know.

        Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
        electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
        exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
        discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
        all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.

        Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
        cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
        much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
        is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
        HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
        activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
        discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
        impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.

        It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
        weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
        suggestions are impractical.

        Be well all,

        Jim

        >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
        >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
        >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
        >at night.
        >
        >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
        >
        >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
        >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
        >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
        >
        >--DD
      • Sandra Shultz
        Hi Jim, Thank you for your post. I m in total agreement. When someone tries to make me out to be a fool..... I stop posting for a while. I can t seem to
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
          Hi Jim,

          Thank you for your post. I'm in total agreement.

          When someone tries to make me out to be a fool..... I stop posting for a while. I can't seem to stay away though. I appreciate your thoughtfull replies. Thank you again.

          Sandra

          In humforum@yahoogroups.com, "zaday" <zaday@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
          > same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
          > symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
          > doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
          > symptoms.
          >
          > Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
          > that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
          > Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
          > studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
          > industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
          > sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
          > specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
          > someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
          > sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
          > It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
          > Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.
          >
          > Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
          > knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
          > a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
          > something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
          > perceived by the senses.
          >
          > We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
          > guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
          > evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
          > of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
          > for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
          > later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
          > asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.
          >
          > It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
          > but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
          > remainder? I'd love to know.
          >
          > Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
          > electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
          > exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
          > discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
          > all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.
          >
          > Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
          > cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
          > much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
          > is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
          > HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
          > activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
          > discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
          > impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.
          >
          > It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
          > weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
          > suggestions are impractical.
          >
          > Be well all,
          >
          > Jim
          >
          > >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
          > >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
          > >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
          > >at night.
          > >
          > >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
          > >
          > >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
          > >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
          > >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
          > >
          > >--DD
          >
        • GeoffWood
          ... On the other hand evidence of others just because is disagrees with one s own should not be automatically dismissed as anecdotal , but could be in fact
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Sandra Shultz


            > > We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
            > > guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
            > > evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation.

            On the other hand evidence of others just because is disagrees with one's
            own should not be automatically dismissed as 'anecdotal', but could be in
            fact factual and reasoned.
            Believing and agreeing implicitly win everything that everybody suggests is
            just plain fluffy - and does not get anybody any closer to understanding or
            overcoming, and coping with the Hum.

            The forum then becomes simply a repository for those who wish to vent their
            frustration and ideas which can range from 'likely' to 'possible' to
            'unlikely' to 'absolutely impossible' to 'outright crackpot' (not referring
            to this forum in particular). It would seem many have an agenda which
            includes denial of the obvious.

            Do people not WANT to know the truth ? If that means suggesting somebody's
            idea may in fact be incorrect, and solid evidence is offered to demonstrate
            that, is that not a GAIN for EVERYBODY who has a genuine interest ?

            And if, say, YOUR theory is the subject of scrutiny and dismissed for no
            rational reason, should you not feel justified in pointing that unfair
            dismissal out ?

            What I feel is NOT acceptable is the vicious demonization of somebody who's
            expertise and research is ridiculed (and NOT disproven) just because their
            idea does not involve, conspiracy, negation of other totally known and
            understood physics, extraordinary pseudo-scienctific 'theories', aliens, and
            supe***ural things that we are not even allowed to mention in this forum,
            that are popular beliefs/explanations.

            geoff
          • David Deming
            This forum is not for the discussion of ordinary environmental noises, such as railroad engines, or other industrial sources of noise. If someone truly
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009

              This forum is not for the discussion of ordinary
              environmental noises, such as railroad engines,
              or other industrial sources of noise.

              If someone truly believes that is what they
              are hearing, they should drop off the forum.

              --DD


              -----Original Message-----
              From: zaday
              Sent: Jun 1, 2009 3:00 PM
              To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?



              Hi all,

              I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
              same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
              symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
              doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
              symptoms.

              Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
              that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
              Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
              studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
              industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
              sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
              specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
              someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
              sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
              It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
              Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.

              Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
              knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
              a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
              something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
              perceived by the senses.

              We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
              guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
              evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
              of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
              for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
              later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
              asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.

              It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
              but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
              remainder? I'd love to know.

              Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
              electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
              exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
              discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
              all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.

              Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
              cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
              much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
              is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
              HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
              activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
              discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
              impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.

              It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
              weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
              suggestions are impractical.

              Be well all,

              Jim

              >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
              >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
              >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
              >at night.
              >
              >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
              >
              >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
              >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
              >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
              >
              >--DD

            • zaday
              Hi Geoff, Sure, tell me the truth Geoff, I m only to glad to hear it. Tell me what the mechanism is that causes the hum in 100% of the people that hear it. If
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
                Hi Geoff,

                Sure, tell me the truth Geoff, I'm only to glad to hear it. Tell me what
                the mechanism is that causes the hum in 100% of the people that hear it.
                If I disagree, I'll mentally note what you say and try and determine if
                specific cases I subsequently read about may somehow be caused by your
                suggestion. I'll do this for the suggestions of the other forum posters
                as well.

                I suspect you're reading into my post what you want to, not what's
                actually there. I never said agree with what everyone says, I simply
                said that it is of little value to constantly argue the point. I also
                said that absent a known cause, saying that the other person is wrong is
                wrong in itself.

                I'll not respond to you further on this issue, I shan't banter, yet I'll
                gladly entertain ideas that you or anyone else has about the origins of
                the HUM or hums. I'd also be glad to respond to HUM related posts that
                you make.

                Be well Geoff,

                Jim
              • zaday
                Hi David, Never expected this from you, so much angry activity occurs on the forum without your comment, only to be blindsided on a post about railroads as a
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
                  Hi David,

                  Never expected this from you, so much angry activity occurs on the forum
                  without your comment, only to be blindsided on a post about railroads as
                  a possible cause for a few of the members.

                  Every day is a better day.

                  Be well,

                  Jim

                  >Re: HUM_FORUM: Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?
                  >
                  >
                  >This forum is not for the discussion of ordinary
                  >environmental noises, such as railroad engines,
                  >or other industrial sources of noise.
                  >
                  >If someone truly believes that is what they
                  >are hearing, they should drop off the forum.
                  >
                  >--DD
                • Geoff Wood
                  ... You know my theory , but I won t repeat it - if I do I only seem to engender flames, direct hate-mail, and people (presumably intentionally) sending me
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
                    zaday wrote:
                    > Hi Geoff,
                    >
                    > Sure, tell me the truth Geoff, I'm only to glad to hear it. Tell me
                    > what
                    > the mechanism is that causes the hum in 100% of the people that hear
                    > it.
                    > If I disagree, I'll mentally note what you say and try and determine
                    > if
                    > specific cases I subsequently read about may somehow be caused by your
                    > suggestion. I'll do this for the suggestions of the other forum
                    > posters
                    > as well.

                    You know my 'theory', but I won't repeat it - if I do I only seem to
                    engender flames, direct hate-mail, and people (presumably intentionally)
                    sending me viruses.


                    > I suspect you're reading into my post what you want to, not what's
                    > actually there.

                    Maybe. But you seemed to wish that flawed ideas not be challenged.

                    geoff
                  • Geoff Wood
                    ... I agree. The talk of railroads (etc) is valid if only to dismiss that sort of thing as being The Hum, as opposed a a hum . But subsequently should be
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
                      zaday wrote:
                      > Hi David,
                      >
                      > Never expected this from you, so much angry activity occurs on the
                      > forum
                      > without your comment, only to be blindsided on a post about railroads
                      > as
                      > a possible cause for a few of the members.
                      >
                      > Every day is a better day.
                      >
                      > Be well,


                      I agree. The talk of railroads (etc) is valid if only to dismiss that sort
                      of thing as being The Hum, as opposed a 'a hum'. But subsequently should be
                      dropped.

                      geoff
                    • Mark Jordan
                      Hi Jim, Tom and all,   Thanks for the final answer to the SWER possibility. However, I am not concerned with Swer or other systems. I am not sure what that
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009
                        Hi Jim, Tom and all,
                         
                        Thanks for the final answer to the SWER possibility. However, I am not concerned with Swer or other systems. I am not sure what that system is but I remember a strange type of power line crossing Range 72 at Eglin AFB Florida. It had only one line overhead and a continuous copper conductor shadowing the overhead line but buried in the earth underneath. That particular power line was destroyed when a Hellfire missile knocked out the remote control steering on an M60 tank. The tank pulled down a long stretch of the line. The tank eventually ran off into a creek and got stuck.
                         
                        What I do know is my association of lightning hot spots and fire clusters with transformer configurations cannot be disputed. I was only wondering if there might be an association with the hum. I've heard power lines hum but that is only my anecdotal and subjective observation.
                         
                        Only a few days ago, I visited one of these event clusters where bad things happen. A month ago there was a house fire on a T transformer. I went to a house on the opposite T to repair a refrigerator. The resident there had his voice box removed from cancer. His wife had a stroke and was recuperating in a facility when she fell and hit her head and died. I told the man about the patterns that I study and he referred me to his neighbor. That neighbor had a tree in his back yard that was struck by lightning four times in one month. Not unusual to me. The elevation is 423' above sea level and the house is exactly crossed by a soil boundary. 423' is the elevational constant of the lightning zone in that area. I am unable to find any events that are not confined to my patterns.
                         
                        Locally, I cannot study the hum. We have too many oilfield compressors running. We pump natural gas all the way to Chicago and New York. We have gas pipelines here that are 48" in diameter and have pressures over 400 pounds. We pump gas back into the earth into large caverns all summer long. Some of these compressor stations have over 20 12 cylinder compressors with pistons 12 inches in diameter. At least one is down at all times being rebuilt. Within twenty miles of my house there are at least a dozen large compressors running.
                         
                        I don't hear the hum or any humming other than compressors. I hate the compressor noise and I even hate hearing air conditioner compressors run.
                         
                        I am wondering if anyone has tried listening to pipes and electric poles with a stethescope or with an amplifier type hearing aide? I can't find any good studies on the subject. Can anyone direct me to some?
                         
                        Mark S. Jordan
                         


                        --- On Mon, 6/1/09, zaday <zaday@...> wrote:

                        From: zaday <zaday@...>
                        Subject: HUM_FORUM: Re: Railroad tracks and diesel engines....?
                        To: humforum@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 3:00 PM

                        Hi all,

                        I think we all need to remember that everyone is likely not hearing the
                        same thing, yet we all found this forum and post here due to the common
                        symptoms. Common symptoms are not tantamount to common disorders. Ask a
                        doctor if you feel otherwise. Different pathologies can cause similar
                        symptoms.

                        Same with the HUM. Just because we refer to it as a HUM, does not mean
                        that it is "The HUM". Some people are likely hearing Low Frequency
                        Noise, I feel that no doubt exists about this. I am sure sufficient
                        studies exist that have demonstrated this to be the case. If a local
                        industry has multiple fans generating Low Frequency Noise, and if
                        sufficient attention is brought to bear on the situation, resolution of
                        specific forms of hum interference can be achieved. Yet simply because
                        someone has no industrial fans near them does not mean that other
                        sources of Low Frequency Noise are not present. Same with the railroad.
                        It is likely that some people are hearing noise from the railroad.
                        Idling diesel engines cause noise that, well, sound like diesel engines.

                        Granted, it seems to be that people are indeed more comfortable with
                        knowing what causes their experience, and many people that begin to hear
                        a hum spend many hours traveling through their neighborhoods looking for
                        something that may not be there, not, at least, in a form easily
                        perceived by the senses.

                        We should appreciate the posts by others, learn from them, and offer
                        guidance, not try to disprove one person's experience by anecdotal
                        evidence of others. It may not apply in their situation. Understanding
                        of the HUM is something that I seek, sure, it's annoying, but more so
                        for me it's mystifying. But many people, (likely myself, sooner or
                        later) seek freedom from the hum, and de-railing their endeavors by
                        asserting a common cause for the hum may be counterproductive for them.

                        It's not railroad noise for all, but likely some. It's not fans for all,
                        but likely some. It's not tinnitus for all, but likely some. What's the
                        remainder? I'd love to know.

                        Tom Becker and myself had some email communications about an issue with
                        electrical power distribution. Tom said a specific wiring scheme didn't
                        exist in the U.S., I said it did. A little research later, and viola, I
                        discovered that Tom is correct. I learned by the experience. I hope we
                        all learn and benefit by the experiences of others.

                        Sandra suggested that an impending flip of the magnetic poles may be the
                        cause of the hum. I read this with interest. Despite what we read, how
                        much is really known about the pending flip? Can we really say that it
                        is impossible for the disturbance in the magnetic poles to cause The
                        HUM? If we don't know what causes The HUM, we can't rule-out this
                        activity as being the source. Yet we read scientific articles that
                        discourse on the topic and some on this forum felt that it is
                        impossible. We simply don't know enough to say this.

                        It seems that the rate of posting has dropped. Perhaps the better
                        weather, perhaps the frequent counter-posts that say that their
                        suggestions are impractical.

                        Be well all,

                        Jim

                        >This experience is very typical. People get in their cars
                        >and drive around in the middle of the night looking for
                        >the source of this noise. I have walked the streets myself
                        >at night.
                        >
                        >People also have a strong psychological need for answers.
                        >
                        >The problem with this theory of course is that it does not
                        >explain the Hum that other people hear all over the world,
                        >some of them very far distant from any railroad.
                        >
                        >--DD


                      • Arne
                        Fortunately, I’ve been unable to locate pipes or electric poles in the wilderness (here èhttp://www.queticopark.com/maps/). J I do hear it there, well
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 1, 2009

                          Fortunately, I’ve been unable to locate pipes or electric poles in the wilderness (here èhttp://www.queticopark.com/maps/).  J

                          I do hear it there, well north of the US border in the Canadian wilderness.   And I’m not the only one.  For me, any solution has to address that fact.

                           

                          Arne

                          Central MN USA

                           

                          From: humforum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:humforum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Jordan

                          I am wondering if anyone has tried listening to pipes and electric poles with a stethescope or with an amplifier type hearing aide? I can't find any good studies on the subject...

                          .

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