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Sparta vs Hitler's Germany

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  • perpetualburn30298
    I was wondering if anyone knew of any essays/papers/books examining the similarities/differences, and the extent to which Hitler was influenced by Spartan
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 29, 2008
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      I was wondering if anyone knew of any essays/papers/books examining
      the similarities/differences, and the extent to which Hitler was
      influenced by Spartan traditions.

      I was looking through the Moody Lawless Group and found this

      "A. The Spartans themselves were art;- they lived art, they embodied
      art, they personified art - so much so, that there was no distinction
      bewteen art and life in Sparta."

      So when Nietzsche says that when he sees all these soldiers he could
      be seeing warriors, does he really mean, he could be seeing
      "personified art"?

      Did Hitler have something like this in mind?

      "Thereby it has been brought about, that the passion of love, as the
      one realm *wholly* accessible to women, regulates our art to the very
      core"(Nietzsche)

      But what is our art, the art of man?

      I'll quote something else I read from Moody Lawless...

      "The poet is a 'shaper' because the Greeks did not differentiate
      between arts and crafts as we do, as they thought that what we call
      art was a craft [hence techne]. Likewise, they did not use the term
      'the beautiful' [to kalon] to mean beauty in the aesthetic sense as we
      now (mis-)understand it, but rather to mean excellence. It is only
      since the 18th century that a special category of 'aesthetic' 'fine
      art' has been created [and so a decadent position]. Also, the idea of
      the artist of a 'lone genius' must be revised: the great artist is a
      commander of others and uses them [often ruthlessly] to accomplish his
      visions."

      And what is being crafted? Is it not Will to power? Is this the realm
      *wholly* accessible to man?

      Carl Jung said:

      "Where love reigns, there is no will to power; and where the will to
      power is paramount, love is lacking. The one is but the shadow of the
      other."

      So could one say Sparta embodied a perfect balance of 'love' and 'power'?

      Did Hitler also have a Spartan perspective on woman as regards the State?
    • Sauwelios
      ... This is not Nietzschean: love is actually a *form* of the will to power according to Nietzsche (albeit a deceptive form): see, e.g., WTP 776.
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 29, 2008
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        --- In human_superhuman@yahoogroups.com, "perpetualburn30298"
        <perpetualburn30298@...> wrote:
        >
        > Carl Jung said:
        >
        > "Where love reigns, there is no will to power; and where the will to
        > power is paramount, love is lacking. The one is but the shadow of the
        > other."
        >

        This is not Nietzschean: love is actually a *form* of the will to
        power according to Nietzsche (albeit a deceptive form): see, e.g., WTP
        776.
      • perpetualburn30298
        ... I didn t think it sounded very Nietzschean when I copied it. I guess what I m getting it then, is how perfectly women s expression of will to power
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 29, 2008
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          --- In human_superhuman@yahoogroups.com, "Sauwelios" <sauwelios@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In human_superhuman@yahoogroups.com, "perpetualburn30298"
          > <perpetualburn30298@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Carl Jung said:
          > >
          > > "Where love reigns, there is no will to power; and where the will to
          > > power is paramount, love is lacking. The one is but the shadow of the
          > > other."
          > >
          >
          > This is not Nietzschean: love is actually a *form* of the will to
          > power according to Nietzsche (albeit a deceptive form): see, e.g., WTP
          > 776.
          >
          I didn't think it sounded very Nietzschean when I copied it. I guess
          what I'm getting it then, is how perfectly women's expression of will
          to power complimented men's in Sparta. I don't understand really how
          someone like Jung who knew so much about Nietzsche could separate love
          and will to power like that. =
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