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where is Sur?

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  • Jean Valentin - Brussels
    Dear Hugoye fellow-members, In a manuscript which I am studying, there is a mention of the city of Sur . The manuscript is an Arabic gospel manuscript from
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 5, 2002
      Dear Hugoye fellow-members,
      In a manuscript which I am studying, there is a mention of the "city of
      Sur".
      The manuscript is an Arabic gospel manuscript from the convent of
      St-Catherine (Mt Sinai). At the end, it has a short notice in Syriac stating
      it belong to an Ilias, son of Joseph, from the city of SUR
      (semkat-waw-reesh). The manuscript dates probably from the XIIth century.
      I'd appreciate any comment on a possible location of that city.
      Shlomo to all,
      Jean V.


      --
      Jean Valentin - Bruxelles - Belgique
      jean.valentin@... / skavoovee@...
    • Nabil Salem
      Sur is Arabic for Tyre in South Lebanon Regards Nabil Salem ... From: Jean Valentin - Brussels [mailto:jean.valentin@freebel.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 05,
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 5, 2002
        Sur is Arabic for Tyre in South Lebanon
        Regards
        Nabil Salem

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jean Valentin - Brussels [mailto:jean.valentin@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 6:35 PM
        To: Hugoye
        Subject: [hugoye-l] where is Sur?

        Dear Hugoye fellow-members,
        In a manuscript which I am studying, there is a mention of the "city of
        Sur".
        The manuscript is an Arabic gospel manuscript from the convent of
        St-Catherine (Mt Sinai). At the end, it has a short notice in Syriac stating
        it belong to an Ilias, son of Joseph, from the city of SUR
        (semkat-waw-reesh). The manuscript dates probably from the XIIth century.
        I'd appreciate any comment on a possible location of that city.
        Shlomo to all,
        Jean V.


        --
        Jean Valentin - Bruxelles - Belgique
        jean.valentin@... / skavoovee@...




        -----

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      • Takahashi, Hidemi
        SUR in a Syriac context is not necessarily Tyre, but could be Saur/Sawur/Savur near Qillith/Killit in Tur Abdin. The place seems to have been of some
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 6, 2002
          SUR in a Syriac context is not necessarily Tyre, but could be Saur/Sawur/Savur
          near Qillith/Killit in Tur Abdin. The place seems to have been of some
          importance later in the 14th-16th c. I do not know if it was of any importance
          in the 12th c. The possibility that we are talking about this Saur is worth
          bearing in mind, although, admittedly, in a manuscript from St. Catherine's the
          Lebanese Tyre seems a more likely candidate.

          For obvious reasons Saur is often confused with Tyre in scholarly literature. I
          don't have the book with me and don't have the exact reference, but I seem to
          recall there was some discussion of this point in Levi della Vida's "Ricerche
          sulla formazione del più antico fondo dei manoscritti orientali della
          Biblioteca Vaticana" (StT 92), Vatican City 1939, in connection with Moses of
          Mardin (16th c.) who calls himself Musa al-Sauri in some Vatican manuscripts.

          Having written this note thus far, I've just realised that we were talking
          about a place-name written with "semkat", not "sade". The mention of Tyre had
          automatically led me to assume that we were talking about "sade". Well, I'll
          send this note anyway just in case sade was meant, or in case the scribe wrote
          semkat for sade as happens on some (very) rare occasions.


          H. Takahashi (Frankfurt)



          Nabil Salem wrote:

          > Sur is Arabic for Tyre in South Lebanon
          > Regards
          > Nabil Salem
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jean Valentin - Brussels [mailto:jean.valentin@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 6:35 PM
          > To: Hugoye
          > Subject: [hugoye-l] where is Sur?
          >
          > Dear Hugoye fellow-members,
          > In a manuscript which I am studying, there is a mention of the "city of
          > Sur".
          > The manuscript is an Arabic gospel manuscript from the convent of
          > St-Catherine (Mt Sinai). At the end, it has a short notice in Syriac stating
          > it belong to an Ilias, son of Joseph, from the city of SUR
          > (semkat-waw-reesh). The manuscript dates probably from the XIIth century.
          > I'd appreciate any comment on a possible location of that city.
          > Shlomo to all,
          > Jean V.
          >
          > --
          > Jean Valentin - Bruxelles - Belgique
          > jean.valentin@... / skavoovee@...
          >
          > -----
          >
          > Syriac Computing Institute [http://syrcom.cua.edu]
          >
          > Hugoye Journal [http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye]
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          > ---
          > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
          > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
          > Version: 6.0.319 / Virus Database: 178 - Release Date: 1/28/02
          >
          > ---
          > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
          > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
          > Version: 6.0.319 / Virus Database: 178 - Release Date: 1/28/02
          >
          > -----
          >
          > Syriac Computing Institute [http://syrcom.cua.edu]
          >
          > Hugoye Journal [http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye]
          >
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        • dgonnet
          Bonjour, Cela fait évidemment penser à la ville de El Tur, actuelle préfecture du département égyptien du Sinaï-nord. C est, je crois, une ville assez
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 6, 2002
            Bonjour,
            Cela fait évidemment penser à la ville de El Tur, actuelle préfecture du
            département égyptien du Sinaï-nord. C'est, je crois, une ville assez
            ancienne, mais je n'ai ici sous la main aucun document me permettant de
            vérifier son ortho en arabe. De plus mes connaissances en arabe ne vont pas
            jusqu'à savoir si un mot syriaque en semkat a pu devenir T en arabe ...
            Bonne chance
            Marie-Gabrielle Guérard - Sources Chrétiennes (par Dominique Gonnet)
            mgguerard@...
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