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Purshana

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  • Gareth Hughes
    Dear list, Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the front of Bedjan s Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 2, 2011
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      Dear list,

      Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the
      front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
      reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list shed
      any light on the meaning of this term?

      Thanks,

      Gareth.
    • George Kiraz
      At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the Eucharistic bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term burshaneh. George
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 2, 2011
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        At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the Eucharistic bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term burshaneh.

         

         

         

        George
        _________________________________________________

        George A. Kiraz,
        M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
        Gorgias Press
        954 River Road
        Piscataway, NJ 08854
        Tel. +1 732-885-8900
        Fax +1 732-885-8908
        http://www.gorgiaspress.com

        ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀

         

        ** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**

         


        From: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gareth Hughes
        Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
        To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hugoye-list] Purshana

         

         

        Dear list,

        Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (
        ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the
        front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
        reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list shed
        any light on the meaning of this term?

        Thanks,

        Gareth.

      • Gareth Hughes
        The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant s (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find reference to it as a
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 2, 2011
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          The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant's
          (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find
          reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good Friday.

          Gareth.

          On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
          >
          >
          > At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the Eucharistic
          > bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term /burshaneh/.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > George
          > _________________________________________________
          > George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
          > Gorgias Press
          > 954 River Road
          > Piscataway, NJ08854
          > Tel. +1 732-885-8900
          > Fax +1 732-885-8908
          > http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
          >
          > ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ
          > ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
          > ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
          > ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
          >
          >
          >
          > */** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom
          > it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
          > privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the
          > intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute,
          > or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or
          > subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com]
          > *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
          > *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
          > *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
          > *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Dear list,
          >
          > Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the
          > front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
          > reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list shed
          > any light on the meaning of this term?
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Gareth.
          >
        • Gareth Hughes
          I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of Volume 1 of Bedjan s Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of Volume
            1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
            http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2).
            Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and Qyamta,
            is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term. Instead of dates,
            it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group of 35 (ܠܗ)
            or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of 7, I'm
            not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
            length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.

            I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
            Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a look at it,
            I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three numbers, which
            may not be immediately obvious.

            Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.

            Gareth.

            On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
            > The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant's
            > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find
            > reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good Friday.
            >
            > Gareth.
            >
            > On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the Eucharistic
            >> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term /burshaneh/.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> George
            >> _________________________________________________
            >> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
            >> Gorgias Press
            >> 954 River Road
            >> Piscataway, NJ08854
            >> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
            >> Fax +1 732-885-8908
            >> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
            >>
            >> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ
            >> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
            >> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
            >> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> */** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom
            >> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
            >> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the
            >> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute,
            >> or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or
            >> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >>
            >> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com]
            >> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
            >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
            >> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
            >> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Dear list,
            >>
            >> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the
            >> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
            >> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list shed
            >> any light on the meaning of this term?
            >>
            >> Thanks,
            >>
            >> Gareth.
            >>
            >
            >
          • Claude Detienne
            Would it have something to do with the epact ? although I do not see how a string of three numbers would fit. Claude 2011/6/4 Gareth Hughes
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
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              Would it have something to do with the "epact"?  although I do not see how a string of three numbers would fit.

              Claude

              2011/6/4 Gareth Hughes <garzohugo@...>
               

              I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of Volume
              1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
              http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2).
              Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and Qyamta,
              is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term. Instead of dates,
              it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group of 35 (ܠܗ)
              or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of 7, I'm
              not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
              length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.

              I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
              Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a look at it,
              I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three numbers, which
              may not be immediately obvious.

              Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.

              Gareth.



              On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
              > The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant's
              > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find
              > reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good Friday.
              >
              > Gareth.
              >
              > On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the Eucharistic
              >> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term /burshaneh/.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> George
              >> _________________________________________________
              >> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
              >> Gorgias Press
              >> 954 River Road
              >> Piscataway, NJ08854
              >> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
              >> Fax +1 732-885-8908
              >> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
              >>
              >> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ
              >> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
              >> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
              >> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> */** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom
              >> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
              >> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the
              >> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute,
              >> or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or
              >> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ----------------------------------------------------------
              >>
              >> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com]
              >> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
              >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
              >> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
              >> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Dear list,
              >>
              >> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the
              >> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
              >> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list shed
              >> any light on the meaning of this term?
              >>
              >> Thanks,
              >>
              >> Gareth.
              >>
              >
              >




              --
              Claude Detienne
              --------------------------
              "Nunca desistam dos seus sonhos. Mesmo depois de muitos anos eles podem se tornar realidade"
              Um papai fresco
            • Gareth Hughes
              The epacts are shown in the last (leftmost) column under the heading D-Sahra. Before I saw the table, I thought that Hpakhatha could be a Syriac rendering for
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                The epacts are shown in the last (leftmost) column under the heading
                D-Sahra. Before I saw the table, I thought that Hpakhatha could be a
                Syriac rendering for epacts, but it is also a genuine Syriac word. I
                think it has something to do with the various numbers referred to as
                'foundations of the year' in the previously cited article on JSTOR. The
                first of the three numbers is a running count over the 19 years (looking
                suspiciously Metonic), but is one integer higher than the Golden Number.
                The second number looks like the day of the month on which the pascal
                full moon falls, and the third looks like a day of the week (but not the
                day of the pascal full moon).

                Gareth.

                On 04/06/11 16:28, Claude Detienne wrote:
                >
                >
                > Would it have something to do with the "epact"? although I do not see
                > how a string of three numbers would fit.
                >
                > Claude
                >
                > 2011/6/4 Gareth Hughes <garzohugo@... <mailto:garzohugo@...>>
                >
                >
                >
                > I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of Volume
                > 1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
                > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2
                > <http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2>).
                > Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and Qyamta,
                > is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term. Instead of dates,
                > it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group of 35 (ܠܗ)
                > or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of 7, I'm
                > not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
                > length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.
                >
                > I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
                > Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a look at it,
                > I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three numbers, which
                > may not be immediately obvious.
                >
                > Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.
                >
                > Gareth.
                >
                >
                >
                > On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
                > > The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant's
                > > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find
                > > reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good Friday.
                > >
                > > Gareth.
                > >
                > > On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the
                > Eucharistic
                > >> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term /burshaneh/.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> George
                > >> _________________________________________________
                > >> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
                > >> Gorgias Press
                > >> 954 River Road
                > >> Piscataway, NJ08854
                > >> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
                > >> Fax +1 732-885-8908
                > >> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
                > >>
                > >> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ
                > >> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ ܒܫܡ
                > ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
                > >> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
                > >> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ
                > ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> */** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient
                > to whom
                > >> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
                > >> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are
                > not the
                > >> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
                > distribute,
                > >> or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or
                > >> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
                > >>
                > >> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:%2Ahugoye-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                > [mailto:hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:hugoye-list%40yahoogroups.com>]
                > >> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
                > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
                > >> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:hugoye-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Dear list,
                > >>
                > >> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from the
                > >> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems to be a
                > >> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list shed
                > >> any light on the meaning of this term?
                > >>
                > >> Thanks,
                > >>
                > >> Gareth.
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Claude Detienne
                > --------------------------
                > "Nunca desistam dos seus sonhos. Mesmo depois de muitos anos eles podem
                > se tornar realidade"
                > Um papai fresco
                >
              • Thomas A Carlson (tcarlson@Princeton.EDU)
                Dear all, Is the purshana in this location the difference between the New Calendar and Old Calendar dates for Easter? That would explain why it sometimes is
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear all,

                  Is the "purshana" in this location the difference between the New Calendar and Old Calendar dates for Easter? That would explain why it sometimes is zero (no difference), sometimes seven (one week off), and sometimes 35 (a whole lunar cycle off).

                  Best,
                  Thomas.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Gareth Hughes <garzohugo@...>
                  Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:17 am
                  Subject: Re: [hugoye-list] Purshana
                  To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com

                  > I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of
                  > Volume1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
                  > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2).
                  > Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and Qyamta,
                  > is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term. Instead of
                  > dates,it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group
                  > of 35 (ܠܗ)
                  > or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of 7, I'm
                  > not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
                  > length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.
                  >
                  > I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
                  > Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a look at
                  > it,I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three numbers,
                  > whichmay not be immediately obvious.
                  >
                  > Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.
                  >
                  > Gareth.
                  >
                  > On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
                  > > The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant's
                  > > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find
                  > > reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good Friday.
                  > >
                  > > Gareth.
                  > >
                  > > On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the
                  > Eucharistic>> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term
                  > /burshaneh/.>>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> George
                  > >> _________________________________________________
                  > >> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
                  > >> Gorgias Press
                  > >> 954 River Road
                  > >> Piscataway, NJ08854
                  > >> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
                  > >> Fax +1 732-885-8908
                  > >> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
                  > >>
                  > >> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ
                  > ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ>> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ
                  > ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
                  > >> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ
                  > ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
                  > >> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ
                  > ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> */** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient
                  > to whom
                  > >> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
                  > >> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are
                  > not the
                  > >> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
                  > distribute,>> or take action relying on it. Any communication
                  > received in error, or
                  > >> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
                  > -------
                  > >>
                  > >> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-
                  > list@yahoogroups.com]>> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
                  > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
                  > >> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Dear list,
                  > >>
                  > >> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from
                  > the>> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems
                  > to be a
                  > >> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list
                  > shed>> any light on the meaning of this term?
                  > >>
                  > >> Thanks,
                  > >>
                  > >> Gareth.
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Claude Detienne
                  I remember to have seen once an English translation of the introduction of Bedjan s Breviarium, but I cannot remember where. I think it was in some book on
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I remember to have seen once an English translation of the introduction of Bedjan's Breviarium, but I cannot remember where. I think it was in some book on Nestorian/Chaldean Liturgy (I think an English book made in India or at least by some Indian scholar).

                    Could help to solve problems.

                    Claude

                    2011/6/4 Thomas A Carlson (tcarlson@...) <tcarlson@...>
                     

                    Dear all,
                    Is the "purshana" in this location the difference between the New Calendar and Old Calendar dates for Easter? That would explain why it sometimes is zero (no difference), sometimes seven (one week off), and sometimes 35 (a whole lunar cycle off).

                    Best,
                    Thomas.



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Gareth Hughes <garzohugo@...>
                    Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:17 am
                    Subject: Re: [hugoye-list] Purshana
                    To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com

                    > I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of
                    > Volume1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see

                    > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2).
                    > Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and Qyamta,
                    > is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term. Instead of
                    > dates,it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group
                    > of 35 (ܠܗ)
                    > or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of 7, I'm
                    > not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
                    > length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.
                    >
                    > I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
                    > Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a look at
                    > it,I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three numbers,
                    > whichmay not be immediately obvious.

                    >
                    > Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.
                    >
                    > Gareth.
                    >
                    > On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
                    > > The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the celebrant's
                    > > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented, but I cannot find
                    > > reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good Friday.
                    > >
                    > > Gareth.
                    > >
                    > > On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the
                    > Eucharistic>> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term
                    > /burshaneh/.>>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> George
                    > >> _________________________________________________
                    > >> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
                    > >> Gorgias Press
                    > >> 954 River Road
                    > >> Piscataway, NJ08854
                    > >> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
                    > >> Fax +1 732-885-8908
                    > >> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
                    > >>
                    > >> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ
                    > ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ>> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ
                    > ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
                    > >> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ
                    > ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
                    > >> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ
                    > ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> */** This communication is intended for the use of the recipient
                    > to whom
                    > >> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
                    > >> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are
                    > not the
                    > >> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
                    > distribute,>> or take action relying on it. Any communication
                    > received in error, or
                    > >> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > -------
                    > >>
                    > >> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-
                    > list@yahoogroups.com]>> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
                    > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
                    > >> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                    > >> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Dear list,
                    > >>
                    > >> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ) from
                    > the>> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I, which seems
                    > to be a
                    > >> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the list
                    > shed>> any light on the meaning of this term?
                    > >>
                    > >> Thanks,
                    > >>
                    > >> Gareth.
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    --
                    Claude Detienne
                    --------------------------
                    "Nunca desistam dos seus sonhos. Mesmo depois de muitos anos eles podem se tornar realidade"
                    Um papai fresco
                  • Thomas A Carlson (tcarlson@Princeton.EDU)
                    Dear all, There is an explanation of the triad of numbers in Syriac in the introduction to Mar Toma Darmo s Hudra (Trichur: Mar Narsai, 1960), 13-14. What
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
                    Dear all,

                    There is an explanation of the triad of numbers in Syriac in the introduction to Mar Toma Darmo's Hudra (Trichur: Mar Narsai, 1960), 13-14. What follows is a rough translation of the explanation, after listing the nineteen numerical triples in order:

                    "Each hpakhta is for one year. The first letters from 1 to 19 are of the moon (epacts?). And the middle (letters) after them are how many days in the solar month the Jewish Passover goes up [? saleq], and the last (letter) so that you may know the day of the passover. When you add it to the "foundation of the year" and you divide it by seven, if one remains, the Jewish Passover is on Sunday, and if two, on Monday, etc.

                    "Every hpakhta in which there is a kaph, count the passover in Adar, and the rest in Nisan (except YZKṬH, because even though a kaph is found in it, nevertheless the Resurrection does not always occur in Adar, because if it is the case that in that year the "foundation of the year" is 1 or 2, the Resurrection is in Adar, and if it is 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7, the Resurrection is in Nisan). And the Sunday after the Jewish Passover is the Resurrection by all means. And if you forget which bayta [a synonym for hpakhta?] you are in, count the years of the Greeks and divide them by nineteen, adding to them twelve years of the house of Adam, and the quantity that remains in your hand count from the beginning of the hpakhatha, and whatever hpakhta your number rests on, that is the hpakhta for the year you are in."

                    No doubt I have made errors in the above translation, because I am fluent neither in calendrical nor mathematical Syriac, but I think it's a start. I have attached a pdf of the Syriac text for others to understand better than myself.

                    Best,
                    Thomas.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Claude Detienne <madnho@...>
                    Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011 12:15 pm
                    Subject: Re: [hugoye-list] Purshana
                    To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com

                    > I remember to have seen once an English translation of the
                    > introduction of
                    > Bedjan's Breviarium, but I cannot remember where. I think it was in
                    > somebook on Nestorian/Chaldean Liturgy (I think an English book
                    > made in India or
                    > at least by some Indian scholar).
                    >
                    > Could help to solve problems.
                    >
                    > Claude
                    >
                    > 2011/6/4 Thomas A Carlson (tcarlson@...)
                    > <tcarlson@...>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Dear all,
                    > > Is the "purshana" in this location the difference between the New
                    > Calendar> and Old Calendar dates for Easter? That would explain why
                    > it sometimes is
                    > > zero (no difference), sometimes seven (one week off), and
                    > sometimes 35 (a
                    > > whole lunar cycle off).
                    > >
                    > > Best,
                    > > Thomas.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Gareth Hughes <garzohugo@...>
                    > > Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:17 am
                    > > Subject: Re: [hugoye-list] Purshana
                    > > To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > > I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of
                    > > > Volume1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2> ).
                    > > > Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and
                    > Qyamta,> > is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term.
                    > Instead of
                    > > > dates,it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group
                    > > > of 35 (ܠܗ)
                    > > > or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of
                    > 7, I'm
                    > > > not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
                    > > > length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
                    > > > Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a
                    > look at
                    > > > it,I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three
                    > numbers,> > whichmay not be immediately obvious.
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.
                    > > >
                    > > > Gareth.
                    > > >
                    > > > On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
                    > > > > The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the
                    > celebrant's> > > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented,
                    > but I cannot find
                    > > > > reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good
                    > Friday.> > >
                    > > > > Gareth.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the
                    > > > Eucharistic>> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term
                    > > > /burshaneh/.>>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> George
                    > > > >> _________________________________________________
                    > > > >> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
                    > > > >> Gorgias Press
                    > > > >> 954 River Road
                    > > > >> Piscataway, NJ08854
                    > > > >> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
                    > > > >> Fax +1 732-885-8908
                    > > > >> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ
                    > > > ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ>> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ
                    > > > ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
                    > > > >> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ
                    > > > ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
                    > > > >> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ
                    > > > ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> */** This communication is intended for the use of the
                    > recipient> > to whom
                    > > > >> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
                    > > > >> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you
                    > are> > not the
                    > > > >> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
                    > > > distribute,>> or take action relying on it. Any communication
                    > > > received in error, or
                    > > > >> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > > > -------
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-
                    > > > list@yahoogroups.com]>> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
                    > > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
                    > > > >> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> Dear list,
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ)
                    > from> > the>> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I,
                    > which seems
                    > > > to be a
                    > > > >> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the
                    > list> > shed>> any light on the meaning of this term?
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> Thanks,
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> Gareth.
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Claude Detienne
                    > --------------------------
                    > "Nunca desistam dos seus sonhos. Mesmo depois de muitos anos eles
                    > podem se
                    > tornar realidade"
                    > Um papai fresco
                    >
                  • Gareth Hughes
                    Dear Thomas, This find is spot on! Thank you. I had never troubled to read this part to my shame. First of all, your earlier interpretation of Purshana as the
                    Message 10 of 10 , Jun 4, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Thomas,

                      This find is spot on! Thank you. I had never troubled to read this part
                      to my shame.

                      First of all, your earlier interpretation of Purshana as the number of
                      days the Julian Paschalion lags behind the Gregorian Paschalion looks
                      right. In 1880 (the first row of the table), Gregorian Easter was on 28
                      March and Julian Easter was on 2 May, which is 35 days later. The next
                      row (1881) has a Purshana of 7, and Gregorian Easter fell on 17 April
                      and Julian Easter on 24 April. Likewise, 1882 has a Purshana of 0, and
                      both Gregorian and Julian Easters fall on 9 April. So, that
                      interpretation of Purshana checks out. Thanks! It is interesting that
                      Bedjan sees it important to note the difference between the two dates of
                      Easter.

                      I do like the vocalisation of the the triple-number Hpakhatha: the tenth
                      seems appropriate for such a eureka moment! The understanding that the
                      first figure is d-sahra is a little confusing. Bedjan's table uses that
                      term for the epacts, but these running numbers are not epacts. They are
                      more like golden numbers (the position of the year in the 19-year
                      Metonic cycle). However, 1880 has a GN of 19, 1881 has 1, 1882 has 2
                      etc. So the numbering is out by one. Just saying that these figures are
                      d-sahra is extremely tight-lipped! One thought I had was that the last
                      year's golden number is used in calculation (perhaps a remnant of
                      starting the year at a different date) or that Syriac tradition has a
                      Metonic cycle that is a year offset from the usual one (as long as you
                      have a 19-year cycle, it doesn't matter when it starts, just so long as
                      you modify the calculations accordingly). It's interesting to note what
                      is said about using the Year of the Greeks to calculate the golden
                      number. I'm not quite sure how that works, seeing as it involves
                      counting along the list.

                      The second set of figures in the Hpakhatha refer to the paschal full
                      moon (Pesha da-Yhudaye), and are the day of the solar month on which the
                      full moon falls. These values agree with those tabulated for Gregorian
                      paschal full moons for the 19th century. However, the number for 1880 is
                      given as 25 (ܟܗ) in the table, where it should be 26. 25 April is one of
                      the dates on which a Julian paschal full moon can fall, but a Gregorian
                      one couldn't fall on that date during the 19th century.

                      The last figure now makes sense. It is used to determine the day of the
                      week of the paschal full moon, seeing as Easter is the Sunday after it.
                      The instruction say that this last figure should be added to the Shatesa
                      in the next column (that represent dominical letters), the sum modulo 7
                      is the day of the week of the full moon.

                      In the mean time, I worked out the meaning of the fourth column,
                      'Ruvatha, which we had previously figured to be something to do with
                      Fridays. However, its range of 4-9 corresponds exactly with the possible
                      number of Sundays of the Season of Denha. Checking the calendar, this
                      turns out to be true: there should have been 5 Sundays of Denha in 1880,
                      7 in 1881, 6 in 1882 and so forth.

                      Thus, it looks like everything is now understood, with a few tiny loose
                      ends round the edges. Thank you to all who have helped, especially Thomas.

                      Best wishes,

                      Gareth.

                      On 04/06/11 19:47, Thomas A Carlson (tcarlson@...) wrote:
                      > Dear all,
                      >
                      > There is an explanation of the triad of numbers in Syriac in the introduction to Mar Toma Darmo's Hudra (Trichur: Mar Narsai, 1960), 13-14. What follows is a rough translation of the explanation, after listing the nineteen numerical triples in order:
                      >
                      > "Each hpakhta is for one year. The first letters from 1 to 19 are of the moon (epacts?). And the middle (letters) after them are how many days in the solar month the Jewish Passover goes up [? saleq], and the last (letter) so that you may know the day of the passover. When you add it to the "foundation of the year" and you divide it by seven, if one remains, the Jewish Passover is on Sunday, and if two, on Monday, etc.
                      >
                      > "Every hpakhta in which there is a kaph, count the passover in Adar, and the rest in Nisan (except YZKṬH, because even though a kaph is found in it, nevertheless the Resurrection does not always occur in Adar, because if it is the case that in that year the "foundation of the year" is 1 or 2, the Resurrection is in Adar, and if it is 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7, the Resurrection is in Nisan). And the Sunday after the Jewish Passover is the Resurrection by all means. And if you forget which bayta [a synonym for hpakhta?] you are in, count the years of the Greeks and divide them by nineteen, adding to them twelve years of the house of Adam, and the quantity that remains in your hand count from the beginning of the hpakhatha, and whatever hpakhta your number rests on, that is the hpakhta for the year you are in."
                      >
                      > No doubt I have made errors in the above translation, because I am fluent neither in calendrical nor mathematical Syriac, but I think it's a start. I have attached a pdf of the Syriac text for others to understand better than myself.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      > Thomas.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Claude Detienne <madnho@...>
                      > Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011 12:15 pm
                      > Subject: Re: [hugoye-list] Purshana
                      > To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >> I remember to have seen once an English translation of the
                      >> introduction of
                      >> Bedjan's Breviarium, but I cannot remember where. I think it was in
                      >> somebook on Nestorian/Chaldean Liturgy (I think an English book
                      >> made in India or
                      >> at least by some Indian scholar).
                      >>
                      >> Could help to solve problems.
                      >>
                      >> Claude
                      >>
                      >> 2011/6/4 Thomas A Carlson (tcarlson@...)
                      >> <tcarlson@...>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Dear all,
                      >>> Is the "purshana" in this location the difference between the New
                      >> Calendar> and Old Calendar dates for Easter? That would explain why
                      >> it sometimes is
                      >>> zero (no difference), sometimes seven (one week off), and
                      >> sometimes 35 (a
                      >>> whole lunar cycle off).
                      >>>
                      >>> Best,
                      >>> Thomas.
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> ----- Original Message -----
                      >>> From: Gareth Hughes <garzohugo@...>
                      >>> Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:17 am
                      >>> Subject: Re: [hugoye-list] Purshana
                      >>> To: hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>
                      >>>> I have had a chance to look at the table (Table 1 in the front of
                      >>>> Volume1 of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum — see
                      >>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >> http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/CUA&CISOPTR=109522&REC=2> ).
                      >>>> Now, it's obvious that Purshana, which comes between Sauma and
                      >> Qyamta,> > is not a feast day, but a technical calendrical term.
                      >> Instead of
                      >>>> dates,it assigns a number to each year, from the restricted group
                      >>>> of 35 (ܠܗ)
                      >>>> or 7 (ܙ) or 0 (٠). Apart from the fact that 35 is a multiple of
                      >> 7, I'm
                      >>>> not sure what this is. It may be something to do with the changing
                      >>>> length of the Season of Denha, but I can't quite see that.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> I'm also trying to figure out the exact significance of the term
                      >>>> Hpakhatha in the table. Just in case anyone wants to take a
                      >> look at
                      >>>> it,I'll give the clue that each entry is a string of three
                      >> numbers,> > whichmay not be immediately obvious.
                      >>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Gareth.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> On 02/06/11 15:40, Gareth Hughes wrote:
                      >>>>> The eastern tradition seems to have the Purshana as the
                      >> celebrant's> > > (kahna) portion. This is fairly well documented,
                      >> but I cannot find
                      >>>>> reference to it as a feast, perhaps Maundy Thursday or Good
                      >> Friday.> > >
                      >>>>> Gareth.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> On 02/06/11 15:33, George Kiraz wrote:
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> At least in the W. Syr. tradition, the term is used for the
                      >>>> Eucharistic>> bread. This lead to the Arabic colloquial term
                      >>>> /burshaneh/.>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> George
                      >>>>>> _________________________________________________
                      >>>>>> George A. Kiraz, M.St. (Oxon), M.Phil., Ph.D. (Cantab)
                      >>>>>> Gorgias Press
                      >>>>>> 954 River Road
                      >>>>>> Piscataway, NJ08854
                      >>>>>> Tel. +1 732-885-8900
                      >>>>>> Fax +1 732-885-8908
                      >>>>>> http://www.gorgiaspress.com <http://www.gorgiaspress.com/>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> ܐܬܟܬܒܬ ܐܓܪܬܢܝܬܐ ܗܕܐ ܒܝܕ ܚܕ ܕܘܝܐ ܘܚܛܝܐ ܕܠܐ ܫܘܐ ܕܢܕܟܪ ܫܡܗ ܐܠܐ ܡܛܠ
                      >>>> ܨܠܘ̈ܬܐ>> ܘܒܥܘ̈ܬܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ܆ ܘܐܫܬܕܪܬ ܕܝܢ ܒܐܘܪܚܐ ܬܡܝܗܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܢܫܒܐ ܕܝܕܝܥ
                      >>>> ܒܫܡ ܐܝܢܛܪܢܛ ܡ̣ܢ
                      >>>>>> ܚܫܘܒܬܐ ܠܐܚܪܬܐ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܡܛܬ ܠܡܪܬܝܢܐ ܕܩܪܘܝܐ ܠܒܝܒܐ܆ ܘܒܐܝܢܐ ܐܬܪܐ ܥܒܪܬ
                      >>>> ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ
                      >>>>>> ܝܕܥ܆ ܘܠܟܡܐ ܛܟܣ̈ܐ ܐܠܩܛܪ̈ܘܢܝܐ ܣܥܪܬ ܐܦ ܐ̱ܢܫ ܠܐ ܝܕܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܛܟܣܢܐ
                      >>>> ܕܟܠܗܝܢ ܒܪ̈ܝܬܐ܀
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> */** This communication is intended for the use of the
                      >> recipient> > to whom
                      >>>>>> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
                      >>>>>> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you
                      >> are> > not the
                      >>>>>> intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
                      >>>> distribute,>> or take action relying on it. Any communication
                      >>>> received in error, or
                      >>>>>> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.**/*
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
                      >>>> -------
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> *From:*hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hugoye-
                      >>>> list@yahoogroups.com]>> *On Behalf Of *Gareth Hughes
                      >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:23 AM
                      >>>>>> *To:* hugoye-list@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>>>> *Subject:* [hugoye-list] Purshana
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> Dear list,
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> Mark Dickens has mentioned to me the term Purshana (ܦܘܪܫܢܐ)
                      >> from> > the>> front of Bedjan's Breviarium Chaldaicum, Vol. I,
                      >> which seems
                      >>>> to be a
                      >>>>>> reference to a feast day falling in Lent. Can anyone on the
                      >> list> > shed>> any light on the meaning of this term?
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> Thanks,
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> Gareth.
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >> Claude Detienne
                      >> --------------------------
                      >> "Nunca desistam dos seus sonhos. Mesmo depois de muitos anos eles
                      >> podem se
                      >> tornar realidade"
                      >> Um papai fresco
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
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