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Re: [hreg] Solar Reserve

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  • William & Cynthia Stange
    First and formost I would like to see some super-sleuthing into what happened to Tesla s electric vehicle design.His design from the 1930 s is still a
    Message 1 of 28 , May 29, 2010
      First and formost I would like to see some "super-sleuthing" into what happened to Tesla's electric vehicle design.His design from the 1930's is still a mystery. Why? As a component of electric vehicles the regenerative charging would have to be expanded upon. As far as physics involved I think it's obvious that electric motors win the prize at close to 90 % efficient as opposed to less than 20% efficient for combustion engines. My teenager would call that a "Duh." Unfortunately what I think is also inevitable is the way we drive, that will be the hardest conversion of all. Long associated with the freeedom in America is the automobile. Easy Mass transit will have to happen around major cities, combined with park and rides. The whole equation will have to look different, a very hard change for Americans.




      ________________________________
      From: Bill or Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 10:08:18 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve


      I might add that to this discussion, that if large scale adoption of electric vehicles happens over time - I think it is inevitable - that the daily use of kWatts might invert, to where the peak occurs when most are charging their vehicles at 3 AM. I would be interested in comments.
    • William & Cynthia Stange
      If that is the case, and it s a good one. Peak and the larger percent of usage is to cool our homes,no? If we as a nation built homes to be ten-times more
      Message 2 of 28 , May 31, 2010
        If that is the case, and it's a good one. Peak and the larger percent of usage is to cool our homes,no? If we as a nation built homes to be ten-times more efficient at resisting the heat load THAT electricity could be used somewhere else as a "swap" of peak usage/storage combination to "charge" or shore up EV's? Taking into consideration that electric rail use ( both public transpo and transport of goods) could be utilized as well. Just thinking a what the future could look like. Since energy will become quite a lot more expensive to build, feed with fossil fuel to keep up with increasing loads, it seems that the most logical solution is to super-double down the way we build and live in our homes. Being absolutely more specific of environmental regions. As ours is hot and humid, with flooding likely from time to time, and a drought thrown in every couple of years? Hmmm... Design concepts are begining to get more complicated!
        LaVerne? Instead of concrete slab foundations we should have used bright white concrete roof structures instead, we're upside down!!
        Thank you for the interesting emails all of you.
        Bill
      • Philip Timmons
        Let me start with  a couple of caveats -- I have not done design nor review work on trough plants -- so I am no expert on their nuances.  My large scale work
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 1, 2010
          Let me start with  a couple of caveats -- I have not done design nor review work on trough plants -- so I am no expert on their nuances. 

          My large scale work was for these guys -- www.ausra.com -- which are sort of like the trough plants in that they use a long-line design, but have some important differences on keeping expenses down, and do not use oil.  And my other, small-scale, work (from which I see much better application for real world people) comes closer to dish designs.  But that aside . . .

          This NREL document and software package may be sort of a Solution-Looking-for-a-Problem that we are looking at?  Dunno whether it is fully valid across all models?  I follow they had a few trough systems to look at, but numbers can be a bit more wild than that.   While Engineering Economics (the detailed modeling behind this sample software) can be useful for comparing Apples to Oranges -- it is a little risky to use to determine the Answer = X, or = Y, or whatever.

          So with all that upfront . . . .  The particular figure you ref-fed -- #3 -- is interesting to me in the net cost per kWh cited -- it hits it minimum at about 15 to 16 cents?  That I assume is production costs -- the point at which the transformers jump it up to transmission voltage?  (before transmission costs and retail costs).  If so, we could observe that it never does become competitive.  With storage or not.  But with particular interest to your question -- is their "Solar Multiple" (the X axis of that graph) their units or measure of storage?

          But if you look back to the title and abstract, these guys are not really trying to compare storage, but rather how to do the modeling, itself.  When you get to page 5 and 6, it goes into their Thermal Storage portion of the model, but I am not clear on whether it has an option for simply zero-ing the storage, and having never suffered those costs?

          For a sort of break-away from the storage obsession, maybe look to Google's work on Solar Thermal?  Sample Story >>>

          http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/03/google-solar-thermal-mirrors-cheaper-renewable-energy.php

          Google understands very clearly that it is all about the money.  Google's focus (pun intended :) ) has been how to do the mirrors cheaply -- as has mine.  Since there is a lot of mirror surface involved, doing that which makes it cheaper, better, faster -- makes more economic difference than many other financial aspects combined.







           




          --- On Mon, 5/31/10, mkewert@... <mkewert@...> wrote:

          From: mkewert@... <mkewert@...>
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 10:50 AM

           

          Phillip,
          I agree with your logic IF there really is that much inherent thermal capacitance in the solar trough plants.  I was surprised to find this NREL document that seems to support your position from an economic standpoint, assuming their model is good.  See Fig. 3.  I don't understand why levelized cost would go up again for larger plants (regardless of storage).  Do you?
          http://www.nrel. gov/csp/pdfs/ 42852.pdf

          Do you have any power plant kW output curves from the SEGS in CA?  That would really convince me.
          Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Philip Timmons" <philiptimmons@ yahoo.com>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 11:35:11 PM GMT -06:00 Guadalajara / Mexico City / Monterrey
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

           

          Sure California's Peak Use is not too different than ours (Texas).

          And California is where I have done the larger (utility) scale Solar Thermal design work.

          They tend to trend about 10 years ahead of us on many things -- good or bad.

          So if you work with their example of figure 2 -- "2009 Summer Day in California,"  in that document -- It shows the typical peak rising up somewhere between noon and 2 pm, and dropping off somewhere between 6 and 8 pm, with the Peak of the Peak at about 4 pm.  Is that about a fair statement?

          Very closely matches ours, and if you ever happen to see the pattern of the Texas hydro dams (yeah we have some of those) like at Lake Texoma -- They open full bore at 4 pm, and run until about 8 pm.

          We all match on all of that.  However, So does Solar Thermal.  When Solar Thermal wakes up in the morning, it does so relatively slowly -- especially compared to PV.  You probably know that PV closely follows the LIGHT of day that the Sun produces.  But no so much with Solar Thermal. 

          With Solar Thermal, there is generally a bunch of hardware to heat up with incoming energy of the Solar Thermal.  Depending on the style of the mechanical design, there are pipes, tubes, heat exchangers, steam separators/drums/ tanks to heat up.  Along with heat transfer medium, itself -- whether Oil, or Water, or . . .   at any rate a Whole Lot of Mass to Heat up before the thing even starts spitting steam at the turbines. 

          That delay (sort of a hysteresis) can take a couple hours on the front end -- making the Solar Thermal production rise almost in-line with the same figure from your link.  And on the back side -- the evening, as it were -- those same delays show up again.  It takes a couple hours for the residual heat of the equipment to cool down and the turbines to spin down.  Some designs coast well into to evening with no real intent of storage.

          All of this makes Solar Thermal hit the overall Peak Use quite well.  Now if you step back and look at what causes the Peak Use to start with, you can sort of have an Ah-Ha! moment.  The Daily Peak Use is caused by the Daily Residual Heat -- the same thing we humans are attempting to fight with our Air Conditioning.  The Peak Use we are looking at in that Figure 2 is simply Peak Air Conditioning Use. 

          Simple Solar Thermal (without storage) experiences that same residual heat in its basic operation.  Why not work with nature, instead of trying to fight it?  How simple is that?



          --- On Sun, 5/30/10, mkewert@comcast. net <mkewert@comcast. net> wrote:

          From: mkewert@comcast. net <mkewert@comcast. net>
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve
          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Sunday, May 30, 2010, 3:09 PM

           

          Phillip,
          Note that utility peak demands extend several hours after solar production peaks:
          http://www.nrel. gov/docs/ fy10osti/ 45653.pdf

          At least a few hours of storage will be very valuable for displacing other generation sources.

          Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Philip Timmons" <philiptimmons@ yahoo.com>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 11:31:59 AM GMT -06:00 Guadalajara / Mexico City / Monterrey
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

           




        • Tyra Rankin
          Bill: Great comments all; I completely support the visionary thinking. I want to apologize to the group for expressing my horror at the spill in such a loud
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 7, 2010

            Bill:

             

            Great comments all; I completely support the visionary thinking. 

             

            I want to apologize to the group for expressing my horror at the spill in such a loud way on this forum.  My father and brother both have life long careers as petroleum engineers in drilling.  It’s not my expertise.  My brother returned this week from his drilling work in Nigeria and I had a long technical conversation with him and his colleague from Britain about the spill.  What I learned is the extreme complexity of drilling systems.  In BP’s case there were issues in so many areas, starting with well design.  One of the main things I took away was how much decision making on rigs is left to a very few people, who are guided almost entirely by corporate incentives.  Get it done. Get it done quickly; time is money.  So, so many steps were left out in BP’s drilling process, far before the BOP came into play.  The BOP is the tool of very last resort.  BP’s had multiple failures, some of which were known well in advance of the blow out; should have been remedied when discovered but were not.

             

            My brother and his colleague discussed the division of MMS into 3 separate agencies, enforcement, royalties and regulation – this was done in England years ago after a large North Sea blow out there.

             

            They described how the 6 month moratorium on drilling will move rigs overseas.  Job losses in the gulf could be as high as 30,000 or 50,000 at a time when jobs are desperately needed.  Ultimately, changes implemented will lead to more jobs, more regulation and different ways of doing oil and gas business.  But in the meantime, those in the industry and this region will suffer greatly. 

             

            What I struggle with is change.  As someone working to bring change in the form of new and renewable energy supplies, I’m frequently extremely frustrated by the slowness and resistance of those who don’t want change.  How do we get folks to be more willing to embrace change, corporations, governments, people without having to suffer such horrible catastrophe?   There are many who believe that the effects of climate change will bring similar environmental and economic catastrophic upheaval.  How do we build in incentives and change agents in a timely and more comfortable way without having to destroy ourselves and our environments in the process? 

            Tyra

             


            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
            Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:33 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

             

             

            If that is the case, and it's a good one. Peak and the larger percent of usage is to cool our homes,no? If we as a nation built homes to be ten-times more efficient at resisting the heat load THAT electricity could be used somewhere else as a "swap" of peak usage/storage combination to "charge" or shore up EV's? Taking into consideration that electric rail use ( both public transpo and transport of goods) could be utilized as well. Just thinking a what the future could look like. Since energy will become quite a lot more expensive to build, feed with fossil fuel to keep up with increasing loads, it seems that the most logical solution is to super-double down the way we build and live in our homes. Being absolutely more specific of environmental regions. As ours is hot and humid, with flooding likely from time to time, and a drought thrown in every couple of years? Hmmm... Design concepts are begining to get more complicated!
            LaVerne? Instead of concrete slab foundations we should have used bright white concrete roof structures instead, we're upside down!!
            Thank you for the interesting emails all of you.
            Bill

          • William & Cynthia Stange
            http://www.better place.com/ This is a interesting site! I hope I am not stealing someone elses thunder here, I seem to have forgotten whether the link was
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 7, 2010
              http://www.better place.com/     This is a interesting site!
               I hope I am not stealing someone elses thunder here, I seem to have forgotten whether the link was from Hreg or facebook. Anyhow this is partly the way I see the future start to look. I know, I know, the old saying of " it will take decades to change the way we drive!" Well , not exactly take for instance the internet. As a civilization it did not take too long for that to be coordinated into everything we know, now our phones even log on! Extended Wi-Fi !! So electric vehicles (EV'S) do not have to be 20 years away, 5-10 ton electric hybris trucks are already rolling out in Florida and being sent overseas. Uh, Duh? Keep the pressure on , keep brain-storming and we'll get this thing right at last!!! Teamsters can learn to operate high-speed trains, hybrid semis. We can figure this out, we HAVE to figure this out. As always thank you Tyra, please keep us in the loop with legal parameters and info that you collect. Re- invent ourselves we deserve it.
               Bill Stange


              From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 10:40:46 AM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Resrve

               

              Bill:

               

              Great comments all; I completely support the visionary thinking. 

               

              I want to apologize to the group for expressing my horror at the spill in such a loud way on this forum.  My father and brother both have life long careers as petroleum engineers in drilling.  It’s not my expertise.  My brother returned this week from his drilling work in Nigeria and I had a long technical conversation with him and his colleague from Britain about the spill.  What I learned is the extreme complexity of drilling systems.  In BP’s case there were issues in so many areas, starting with well design.  One of the main things I took away was how much decision making on rigs is left to a very few people, who are guided almost entirely by corporate incentives.  Get it done. Get it done quickly; time is money.  So, so many steps were left out in BP’s drilling process, far before the BOP came into play.  The BOP is the tool of very last resort.  BP’s had multiple failures, some of which were known well in advance of the blow out; should have been remedied when discovered but were not.

               

              My brother and his colleague discussed the division of MMS into 3 separate agencies, enforcement, royalties and regulation – this was done in England years ago after a large North Sea blow out there.

               

              They described how the 6 month moratorium on drilling will move rigs overseas.  Job losses in the gulf could be as high as 30,000 or 50,000 at a time when jobs are desperately needed.  Ultimately, changes implemented will lead to more jobs, more regulation and different ways of doing oil and gas business.  But in the meantime, those in the industry and this region will suffer greatly. 

               

              What I struggle with is change.  As someone working to bring change in the form of new and renewable energy supplies, I’m frequently extremely frustrated by the slowness and resistance of those who don’t want change.  How do we get folks to be more willing to embrace change, corporations, governments, people without having to suffer such horrible catastrophe?   There are many who believe that the effects of climate change will bring similar environmental and economic catastrophic upheaval.  How do we build in incentives and change agents in a timely and more comfortable way without having to destroy ourselves and our environments in the process? 

              Tyra

               


              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
              Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:33 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

               

               

              If that is the case, and it's a good one. Peak and the larger percent of usage is to cool our homes,no? If we as a nation built homes to be ten-times more efficient at resisting the heat load THAT electricity could be used somewhere else as a "swap" of peak usage/storage combination to "charge" or shore up EV's? Taking into consideration that electric rail use ( both public transpo and transport of goods) could be utilized as well. Just thinking a what the future could look like. Since energy will become quite a lot more expensive to build, feed with fossil fuel to keep up with increasing loads, it seems that the most logical solution is to super-double down the way we build and live in our homes. Being absolutely more specific of environmental regions. As ours is hot and humid, with flooding likely from time to time, and a drought thrown in every couple of years? Hmmm... Design concepts are begining to get more complicated!
              LaVerne? Instead of concrete slab foundations we should have used bright white concrete roof structures instead, we're upside down!!
              Thank you for the interesting emails all of you.
              Bill

            • apallegraa@aol.com
              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: William & Cynthia Stange Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:24:24 To:
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 8, 2010

                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


                From: William & Cynthia Stange <stangfam@...>
                Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
                To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

                 

                http://www.better place.com/     This is a interesting site!
                 I hope I am not stealing someone elses thunder here, I seem to have forgotten whether the link was from Hreg or facebook. Anyhow this is partly the way I see the future start to look. I know, I know, the old saying of " it will take decades to change the way we drive!" Well , not exactly take for instance the internet. As a civilization it did not take too long for that to be coordinated into everything we know, now our phones even log on! Extended Wi-Fi !! So electric vehicles (EV'S) do not have to be 20 years away, 5-10 ton electric hybris trucks are already rolling out in Florida and being sent overseas. Uh, Duh? Keep the pressure on , keep brain-storming and we'll get this thing right at last!!! Teamsters can learn to operate high-speed trains, hybrid semis. We can figure this out, we HAVE to figure this out. As always thank you Tyra, please keep us in the loop with legal parameters and info that you collect. Re- invent ourselves we deserve it.
                 Bill Stange


                From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 10:40:46 AM
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Resrve

                 

                Bill:

                 

                Great comments all; I completely support the visionary thinking. 

                 

                I want to apologize to the group for expressing my horror at the spill in such a loud way on this forum.  My father and brother both have life long careers as petroleum engineers in drilling.  It’s not my expertise.  My brother returned this week from his drilling work in Nigeria and I had a long technical conversation with him and his colleague from Britain about the spill.  What I learned is the extreme complexity of drilling systems.  In BP’s case there were issues in so many areas, starting with well design.  One of the main things I took away was how much decision making on rigs is left to a very few people, who are guided almost entirely by corporate incentives.  Get it done. Get it done quickly; time is money.  So, so many steps were left out in BP’s drilling process, far before the BOP came into play.  The BOP is the tool of very last resort.  BP’s had multiple failures, some of which were known well in advance of the blow out; should have been remedied when discovered but were not.

                 

                My brother and his colleague discussed the division of MMS into 3 separate agencies, enforcement, royalties and regulation – this was done in England years ago after a large North Sea blow out there.

                 

                They described how the 6 month moratorium on drilling will move rigs overseas.  Job losses in the gulf could be as high as 30,000 or 50,000 at a time when jobs are desperately needed.  Ultimately, changes implemented will lead to more jobs, more regulation and different ways of doing oil and gas business.  But in the meantime, those in the industry and this region will suffer greatly. 

                 

                What I struggle with is change.  As someone working to bring change in the form of new and renewable energy supplies, I’m frequently extremely frustrated by the slowness and resistance of those who don’t want change.  How do we get folks to be more willing to embrace change, corporations, governments, people without having to suffer such horrible catastrophe?   There are many who believe that the effects of climate change will bring similar environmental and economic catastrophic upheaval.  How do we build in incentives and change agents in a timely and more comfortable way without having to destroy ourselves and our environments in the process? 

                Tyra

                 


                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
                Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:33 AM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

                 

                 

                If that is the case, and it's a good one. Peak and the larger percent of usage is to cool our homes,no? If we as a nation built homes to be ten-times more efficient at resisting the heat load THAT electricity could be used somewhere else as a "swap" of peak usage/storage combination to "charge" or shore up EV's? Taking into consideration that electric rail use ( both public transpo and transport of goods) could be utilized as well. Just thinking a what the future could look like. Since energy will become quite a lot more expensive to build, feed with fossil fuel to keep up with increasing loads, it seems that the most logical solution is to super-double down the way we build and live in our homes. Being absolutely more specific of environmental regions. As ours is hot and humid, with flooding likely from time to time, and a drought thrown in every couple of years? Hmmm... Design concepts are begining to get more complicated!
                LaVerne? Instead of concrete slab foundations we should have used bright white concrete roof structures instead, we're upside down!!
                Thank you for the interesting emails all of you.
                Bill

              • Tyra Rankin
                Yep, Better Place, it s amazing!! They were here in Houston about 2 weeks ago at AJC. Mayor Parker keynoted. Noble Energy sponsored and is continuing to
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 8, 2010

                  Yep, Better Place , it’s amazing!!  They were here in Houston about 2 weeks ago at AJC.  Mayor Parker keynoted.  Noble Energy sponsored and is continuing to work with AJC.  Absolutely, Bill, thank you!

                   

                  Mike Granoff, head of Oil Inde penden ce Policies spoke.  Granoff’s presentation had us intensely on the edge of our chairs.  Afterwards, I asked him if BP’s spill was helping his efforts in Washington .  Sadly, he said there is still much resistance.  The US is not embracing Better Place ’s program as other countries have. 

                   

                  We have to get past our fear of change.   Maybe Bill Murray style, Baby Steps!

                   

                   

                  Bipartisan EV bill to help U.S. get into the global green car race

                  Posted by Mike Granoff, Head of Oil Inde penden ce Policies

                  May 27th, 2010

                  “For two generations, political leaders from both major political parties have identified oil de penden ce as a major vulnerability, and have asserted the need for the U.S. to break that addiction. But despite all of the passionate rhetoric, precious little has been proposed by way of a tangible strategy.

                  Today, there is hope that this is about to change.

                  Democratic and Republican members of the House and the Senate just”

                  read more >>

                   

                  Tyra


                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
                  Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 4:24 PM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

                   

                   

                  http://www.better place.com/     This is a interesting site!

                   I hope I am not stealing someone elses thunder here, I seem to have forgotten whether the link was from Hreg or facebook. Anyhow this is partly the way I see the future start to look. I know, I know, the old saying of " it will take decades to change the way we drive!" Well , not exactly take for instance the internet. As a civilization it did not take too long for that to be coordinated into everything we know, now our phones even log on! Extended Wi-Fi !! So electric vehicles (EV'S) do not have to be 20 years away, 5-10 ton electric hybris trucks are already rolling out in Florida and being sent overseas. Uh, Duh? Keep the pressure on , keep brain-storming and we'll get this thing right at last!!! Teamsters can learn to operate high-speed trains, hybrid semis. We can figure this out, we HAVE to figure this out. As always thank you Tyra, please keep us in the loop with legal parameters and info that you collect. Re- invent ourselves we deserve it.

                   Bill Stange

                   


                  From: Tyra Rankin < tyra@... >
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 10:40:46 AM
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Resrve

                   

                  Bill:

                   

                  Great comments all; I completely support the visionary thinking. 

                   

                  I want to apologize to the group for expressing my horror at the spill in such a loud way on this forum.  My father and brother both have life long careers as petroleum engineers in drilling.  It’s not my expertise.  My brother returned this week from his drilling work in Nigeria and I had a long technical conversation with him and his colleague from Britain about the spill.  What I learned is the extreme complexity of drilling systems.  In BP’s case there were issues in so many areas, starting with well design.  One of the main things I took away was how much decision making on rigs is left to a very few people, who are guided almost entirely by corporate incentives.  Get it done. Get it done quickly; time is money.  So, so many steps were left out in BP’s drilling process, far before the BOP came into play.  The BOP is the tool of very last resort.  BP’s had multiple failures, some of which were known well in advance of the blow out; should have been remedied when discovered but were not.

                   

                  My brother and his colleague discussed the division of MMS into 3 separate agencies, enforcement, royalties and regulation – this was done in England years ago after a large North Sea blow out there.

                   

                  They described how the 6 month moratorium on drilling will move rigs overseas.  Job losses in the gulf could be as high as 30,000 or 50,000 at a time when jobs are desperately needed.  Ultimately, changes implemented will lead to more jobs, more regulation and different ways of doing oil and gas business.  But in the meantime, those in the industry and this region will suffer greatly. 

                   

                  What I struggle with is change.  As someone working to bring change in the form of new and renewable energy supplies, I’m frequently extremely frustrated by the slowness and resistance of those who don’t want change.  How do we get folks to be more willing to embrace change, corporations, governments, people without having to suffer such horrible catastrophe?   There are many who believe that the effects of climate change will bring similar environmental and economic catastrophic upheaval.  How do we build in incentives and change agents in a timely and more comfortable way without having to destroy ourselves and our environments in the process? 

                  Tyra

                   


                  From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
                  Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:33 AM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Resrve

                   

                   

                  If that is the case, and it's a good one. Peak and the larger percent of usage is to cool our homes,no? If we as a nation built homes to be ten-times more efficient at resisting the heat load THAT electricity could be used somewhere else as a "swap" of peak usage/storage combination to "charge" or shore up EV's? Taking into consideration that electric rail use ( both public transpo and transport of goods) could be utilized as well. Just thinking a what the future could look like. Since energy will become quite a lot more expensive to build, feed with fossil fuel to keep up with increasing loads, it seems that the most logical solution is to super-double down the way we build and live in our homes. Being absolutely more specific of environmental regions. As ours is hot and humid, with flooding likely from time to time, and a drought thrown in every couple of years? Hmmm... Design concepts are begining to get more complicated!
                  LaVerne? Instead of concrete slab foundations we should have used bright white concrete roof structures instead, we're upside down!!
                  Thank you for the interesting emails all of you.
                  Bill

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