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Re: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill - Part III

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  • betina wolfowicz
    Ahmad, I am sure you are right, money has no scruples.  Yet it is all of us who feed the business with our socially endorsed consumption habits.  Betina
    Message 1 of 74 , May 28, 2010
      Ahmad, I am sure you are right, money has no scruples.  Yet it is all of us who feed the business with our socially endorsed consumption habits.  Betina

      From: Solar Energy <WhySolar@...>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 8:11:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill - Part III



      --- On Sun, 5/16/10, Ed Sarlls <edsarlls@comcast. net> wrote:

      From: Ed Sarlls <edsarlls@comcast. net>
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 12:34 PM

      Verification on undersurface oil plumes:
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:39 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

      Are we all fools, or, are we just being fooled?
      What is the answer going to look like? At church this morning I hope you are praying on this one. I hope you take the time to look and read what's out there instead of gargling with what you are fed on TV.

      From: William & Cynthia Stange <stangfam@swbell. net>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 5:03:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

      Gee, this reads vaguely familiar, addressing legal issues as well. @Two million gallons a day now?
      Can you say National class action suit?

      http://switchboard. nrdc.org/ blogs/dpettit/ open_letter_ to_mms.html

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: Robert Johnston <junk1@plastability. com>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 8:37:01 AM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

      I think Ahmad makes an excellent point: Is the owner responsible
      or is it the contractor(s) ? William didn’t really tackle the legal question. Congressional
      testimony and presidential posturing aside (these are political events), this
      will be settled in court as a legal matter. Meanwhile, BP has shown leadership
      in seeking resolution; they haven’t walked away. I expect that BP will end up
      with a large part of the responsibility, as deep pockets usually do in these
      matters, but in the end, while it will hurt BP shareholders today, it will
      ultimately be a cost passed on to consumers, so we all pay for this and other
      incidents as a cost of using oil.

      BP didn’t do themselves any favors by having citations for poor
      safety in Houston refinery operations leading to many deaths. Their reputation
      has been tarnished—certainly in the Houston area—by that. That was another
      operation where contractors played a role. Can one legally subcontract out the
      risk? I suspect that is possible only to the extent the subcontractor is able
      to pay the damages. Otherwise, the liability will probably roll up to the deep
      pockets anyway. Thus, returning to Ahmad’s analogy, if as a homeowner someone
      slips on an oil patch in your driveway and is injured, it is true that the
      liability would seem to fall on the contractor who spilled the oil, but we all
      know that in a lawsuit, the liability usually gets shared and the homeowner
      would indeed have liability. That’s why we all pay so much for homeowner’s
      insurance to protect ourselves from these kinds of things. We’ve all heard
      crazy stories about people who have trespassed property even with criminal
      intent and been injured and then successfully sued the property owner. It
      doesn’t seem fair, but it is the way the law works, and I can only assume this
      is because maybe it tries to achieve justice not just from the owner’s
      perspective but also from the perspective of the injured party. So, even if BP
      did have all the contractors responsible and signed off, I suspect BP will also
      be assigned liability, and that is partly why they’ve stepped up and taken on
      as much ownership of this problem as they have.

      It would be interesting to hear someone in our group with legal
      training comment on this instead of us laymen speculating.

      On another point—that of using crises as opportunities to
      reshape law—that is politics. It is at times of crisis that the political will
      to change law is strong enough to overcome inertia or vested interests. But I’m
      not sure that making laws in the context of crises instead of with a longer-term,
      more balanced perspective, leads to the best laws.

    • Ed Sarlls
      Same problem - a disagreement on the rig about the better course of action. The company man I m not sure which one vetoed the driller s recommendation (on
      Message 74 of 74 , Jun 5, 2010
        Same problem - a disagreement on the rig about the better course of action. The "company man" I'm not sure which one vetoed the driller's recommendation (on IXTOC) to cut the string above the drill collars and let the collars fall to the bottom for recovery after the well was brought under control.  At least that is what a driller told me on a rig one night in Montana.
        The BOP shear rams wouldn't then and won't now cut through drill collars.
        Human error (Major Screw-up) seems to be common to a lot of major disasters. I believe that the problems on Horizon extends through many years of government regulations, "industry recommended practices", well design, events on the rig leading up to the fatal night.
        There are several interviews on youtube in anyone can stand to watch.
        As sad as it may be - this will happen again if we don't learn from this.
        Ed Sarlls, Jr.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:09 PM
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill - Great BP Video


        I am being careful not to encite a debate but this is too good not to share. Let me know your thoughts, let your politcians know your thoughts too. Deja Vu?

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        Part III
        If you people are honest and sincere about the environment & what really happened in the Horizon disaster, why don't you investigate who owns Transocean?  Why the media is not convicting this company, which I believe legally is fully responsible for the accident & its subcontractors such as Halliburton & Cameron. 
        Historically, Switzerland has never been an oil industry country.  They are good in making watches, real chocolate, great marmalade but most of all banking & financing.  Oil business for the Swiss is a new venture.  They could not build a rig like the Horizon without help from the US , UK , Holland and Norway .  It would be difficult to pin them down but could you trace the where the billions & billions from Wall Street financial disasters went?  It just disappeared but where?  Could lots of that money was siphoned to Swiss banks?  If Swiss banks had received too much money than they could handle, what would they do with it?  Could lots of that money was spent on building the Horizon & her sister ship?
        Who really owned these two rigs owned by Transocean?  Could the owners be the illuminati that control Wall Street?  If so, let us have their names.  Is it possible that the media don't want to point fingers at Transocean thereby exposing the Illuminati that control Wall Street?
         What if what I am saying is true then are we not just a bunch idiots being guided & brainwashed by the media to make us believe whatever they want. It is just a food for thought. 
        Ahmad Solomon