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RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

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  • Russell Warren
    Although I am skeptical, if we are down in Electricity usage, it has as much to do with us being in a recession as it does of us being more energy efficient. A
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 14, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      
      Although I am skeptical, if we are down in Electricity usage, it has as much to do with us being in a recession as it does of us being more energy efficient.
       
      A lot of my customers have units sitting idle, and I can tell you that once we come out of the recession and people need more gas, beauty products, plastic bottles, etc they will be going full force again.
      This is also probably the reason our pollution is down 2%.
       
      Furthermore a lot of my customers also are now generating their own power off-grid, so the numbers that are released by the major producers, are not entirely indicative of what is going on.
       
      I honestly am on your side.  I have customers in oil & gas, and I also have customers who are in the solar power, and wind energy market as well. 
      I attended the meetings for our Houston 10MW power plant.  Do you know that among that projects initial proposals was to put it in a Water treatment facility just to offset the 6MW of power that the facility uses?
      Again our city's huge victory in renewable energy is enough to generate power for maybe 2 water plants.
       
      Do you have a solar system at your house that generates 100%+ of your energy consumption?  If you do, that's awesome...I bet only a handful on this list do.   If not, why not?   Where does your other power come from?
       
      I personally would rather take the 30,40, and yes even 50+ year old power plants, which are grand fathered right around all our pollution laws, and put in a new clean efficient plant that is subject to all of today's rules and regulations.  Even if we are stable or declining in our electrical usage this is still going to be a necessity.  Those old plants are going to have their permits expire, crap out, or worse.
       
      Now try putting a few GE 1.5MW wind turbines up in your sub-division.  See how far that goes...  If we want to spend some political energy...why don't we start there? 
       
      If people want to make a difference, the best way you can do so is through your pocketbook.  The next time you think about buying that BMW, maybe buy the Corolla instead, and use the difference for more Solar Panels for your roof.  THAT will make a difference.
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
      Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:06 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

       

      Speaking of short-sighted . . . .

      Texas Electricity use is Down.  As in using less. 

      So the claim for new plants needed "to prevent some future fantasy brownouts/ blackouts" is bs, same as it ever was.

      So what is this new set of smoke and mirrors really all about?


      --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Russell Warren <rrwarren@earthlink. net> wrote:

      From: Russell Warren <rrwarren@earthlink. net>
      Subject: RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 8:43 AM

       

      I am sorry, but I believe this message is fairly short sighted.  Out current fleet of coal plants is over 30 years old on average, and nuclear plants are not far behind.
       
      Coal, natural gas, and nuclear all need to be part of our future as much as renewable energy does, because right now, renewables alone are not going to be able to handle the demands of our nation.
      Now I would love to see nothing but solar panels and wind turbines everywhere and everyone drive electric cars, etc... but that is not reality.  Honestly if coal and nuclear projects keep getting put on hold with the "not in my yard" mentality, we are going to have blackouts and brownouts by the end of the next decade.  At that point who knows what knee-jerk actions are going to take place.
       
      At counter-intuitive it may seem, I would suggest actually looking into coal, natural gas, and nuclear, and throwing a little support behind plants that can run efficiently and clean.  Number one, I guarantee politicians would pour more money into the smart grids needed to support them, which in turn will be used by large renewable installations.  Two, everyone really needs to work together.  The us vs. them mentality that both sides have is not going to cut it.  It has gotten absolutely nothing done in the last 35 years.  35 years ago we were supposed to be energy independent by presidential decree.
       
      I work in industrial automation, and can tell you that today's control systems and algorithms are far better than when the last coal plants were built, and will have a dramatic increase in both efficiency, and reduced waste of all kinds.  Do I really want coal plants?  Absolutely not.  Are they a necessary evil to move toward a green and renewable future?  YES. 
       
      Where is the power going to come from for everyone's electric cars so we can reduce our dependence on oil?  Right now, I can tell you renewables are not there yet to handle it.  Someone said that a small EV on here used about 200 watt-hours per mile, so every 5 miles they use 1kWh of electricity.  If you have a typical of Houston 15+ mile commute, you are using about 6-8 kWh per day (round trip).  Now say you don't have a small EV but are using the latest Suburban model that uses 3x-4x that, and you are exceeding (doubling or tripling) the electricity use that you have in your house.  Right now people would struggle to have a solar system that meets 100% of their household needs...imagine having to double that.  We aren't even talking about people who commute further or drive around all day for their jobs, or replacing big rigs, etc.
       
      I am not saying there are not bad things going on and bad politics, but please keep a somewhat open mind, do some research, and help support an energy policy that will actually work and last enough so our kids can have a shot at things as well.
       
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Tyra Rankin
      Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:49 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

       

      Hello everyone:

      Sierra Club has a fast and easy way to Take Action to stop the Texas Coal Rush.  Having just returned from TREIA, we saw lots of economic presentations showing that Renewables are cost competitive with coal and fossil fuels when the external costs of carbon and air pollution are included.  Efficiency technologies are quickly coming online as well.  Other states have already stopped new coal development.  Texas must stop now.

      Texas citizens can be very proud of how they came together to block Perry’s fast track of 12 coal plants 3 years ago.  http://www.fighting goliathfilm. com/

      We now must put the final nail in the coffin, stopping new coal for good in our state. 

      Please take action.  Let’s lead with renewables and efficiency, not coal.

      Best,

      Tyra


      From: email_bounce_ handler@bounce. convio.net [mailto:email_ bounce_handler@ bounce.convio. net] On Behalf Of Eva Hernandez, Sierra Club Texas
      Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:31 AM
      To: tyra@...
      Subject: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush


      View a web version of this email.

      Sierra Club - Explore, enjoy and protect the planet

      Dear Tyra,

      Tell the EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush!

      Tell the EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush!

      Tell the EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush!

      Have you been noticing more about coal in the news lately?  It's because we are in the midst of the second big Coal Rush in Texas with more proposed plants than any other state in the country!

      Recently, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ruled that the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) is not following the Clean Air Act.  For years, the TCEQ has been issuing air permits illegally.  Enough is enough.

      Right now, the EPA is asking for your public comments!  Tell the EPA to stop the Coal Rush in Texas by making the TCEQ do it's job and enforce the Clean Air Act.

      Nowhere else in the United States are citizens facing such serious public health and financial risks as we are facing in Texas because of the large number of proposed new coal plants.   There are many reasons to oppose coal plants -- they cost too much, make people sick, contribute to global warming and use enormous amounts of water.

      Submit your comment today.  Tell the EPA to halt the permitting of any new coal plants until the TCEQ abides by the law.

      Coal plants are a dangerous diversion from the clean power and green jobs economy that Texas is so perfectly suited for and already leading.  We can stop the second Coal Rush in Texas by making sure the TCEQ enforces the Clean Air Act. We deserve it.

      For a Clean Energy Future in Texas ,

      Eva Hernandez
      Sierra Club Texas

      P.S. We need as many comments submitted as possible! 

      If you do not wish to receive future emails like this,
      click here to be removed from this type of email contact.






      Update My Profile | Manage My Email Preferences | Update My Interests

      Sierra Club
      85 Second St .
      San Francisco , CA 94105


    • Tyra Rankin
      Warren: The Take Action tools offered by Sierra Club, Environmental Defense and others give a quick way for people to communicate with government – Congress,
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 14, 2009
      • 0 Attachment

        Warren:

         

        The Take Action tools offered by Sierra Club, Environmental Defense and others give a quick way for people to communicate with government – Congress, EPA, targeted leadership.  As Evelyn said, the letters are pre-drafted – you just add your name and send.  It does not take tons of political energy, or time.  To make change, we citizens have to communicate to our leaders.   It is imperative that we are communicating now with all changes happening.

         

        I’m all for long range and comprehensive energy planning.  But the Texas Coal Rush has been about trying to get new coal plants on the ground before carbon caps and other new legislation can be implemented.  Perry’s 11 Fast Tracked TXU plants were all about beating new legislation.  The current proposed plants are for the same reason.  Lots of states have put moratoriums on coal particularly for this reason.  Once carbon caps and hopefully taxes are in place with more aggressive support for Renewables and Efficiency, the comprehensive landscape looks very different, and planning becomes a different proposition. 

         

        I work with automation and controls technology as well, for the electric grid.  Automation and controls are great for demand response efficiency.  Efficiency is the most promising way to reduce energy usage.  Coupled with Renewables, it can dramatically affect the mix of overall energy usage.

         

        Coal plants are a continual feeding beast.  Feeding them produces not only pollution and carbon, but land, water, habitat and resource destruction from mining as well.

         

        If we put a moratorium on new coal now, introduce legislation to cap and tax carbon, beef up Renewable policies, (a Federal Feed In Tariff was proposed at TREIA and SIP,) then the new plants we build are concentrated solar thermal plants instead of coal. 

         

        Let’s not rush to put more coal on the ground just to get in front of legislation and policies that will put clean energy in place.   That truly would be short sighted!

         

        Tyra

         


        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Russell Warren
        Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:51 AM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

         

         

         

        Although I am skeptical, if we are down in Electricity usage, it has as much to do with us being in a recession as it does of us being more energy efficient.

         

        A lot of my customers have units sitting idle, and I can tell you that once we come out of the recession and people need more gas, beauty products, plastic bottles, etc they will be going full force again.

        This is also probably the reason our pollution is down 2%.

         

        Furthermore a lot of my customers also are now generating their own power off-grid, so the numbers that are released by the major producers, are not entirely indicative of what is going on.

         

        I honestly am on your side.  I have customers in oil & gas, and I also have customers who are in the solar power, and wind energy market as well. 

        I attended the meetings for our Houston 10MW power plant.  Do you know that among that projects initial proposals was to put it in a Water treatment facility just to offset the 6MW of power that the facility uses?

        Again our city's huge victory in renewable energy is enough to generate power for maybe 2 water plants.

         

        Do you have a solar system at your house that generates 100%+ of your energy consumption?  If you do, that's awesome...I bet only a handful on this list do.   If not, why not?   Where does your other power come from?

         

        I personally would rather take the 30,40, and yes even 50+ year old power plants, which are grand fathered right around all our pollution laws, and put in a new clean efficient plant that is subject to all of today's rules and regulations.  Even if we are stable or declining in our electrical usage this is still going to be a necessity.  Those old plants are going to have their permits expire, crap out, or worse.

         

        Now try putting a few GE 1.5MW wind turbines up in your sub-division.  See how far that goes...  If we want to spend some political energy...why don't we start there? 

         

        If people want to make a difference, the best way you can do so is through your pocketbook.  The next time you think about buying that BMW, maybe buy the Corolla instead, and use the difference for more Solar Panels for your roof.  THAT will make a difference.

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@ yahoogroups. com ]On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
        Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:06 AM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

         

        Speaking of short-sighted . . . .

        Texas Electricity use is Down.  As in using less. 

        So the claim for new plants needed "to prevent some future fantasy brownouts/ blackouts" is bs, same as it ever was.

        So what is this new set of smoke and mirrors really all about?


        --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Russell Warren <rrwarren@earthlink. net> wrote:


        From: Russell Warren <rrwarren@earthlink. net>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 8:43 AM

         

        I am sorry, but I believe this message is fairly short sighted.  Out current fleet of coal plants is over 30 years old on average, and nuclear plants are not far behind.

         

        Coal, natural gas, and nuclear all need to be part of our future as much as renewable energy does, because right now, renewables alone are not going to be able to handle the demands of our nation.

        Now I would love to see nothing but solar panels and wind turbines everywhere and everyone drive electric cars, etc... but that is not reality.  Honestly if coal and nuclear projects keep getting put on hold with the "not in my yard" mentality, we are going to have blackouts and brownouts by the end of the next decade.  At that point who knows what knee-jerk actions are going to take place.

         

        At counter-intuitive it may seem, I would suggest actually looking into coal, natural gas, and nuclear, and throwing a little support behind plants that can run efficiently and clean.  Number one, I guarantee politicians would pour more money into the smart grids needed to support them, which in turn will be used by large renewable installations.  Two, everyone really needs to work together.  The us vs. them mentality that both sides have is not going to cut it.  It has gotten absolutely nothing done in the last 35 years.  35 years ago we were supposed to be energy inde penden t by presidential decree.

         

        I work in industrial automation, and can tell you that today's control systems and algorithms are far better than when the last coal plants were built, and will have a dramatic increase in both efficiency, and reduced waste of all kinds.  Do I really want coal plants?  Absolutely not.  Are they a necessary evil to move toward a green and renewable future?  YES. 

         

        Where is the power going to come from for everyone's electric cars so we can reduce our de penden ce on oil?  Right now, I can tell you renewables are not there yet to handle it.  Someone said that a small EV on here used about 200 watt-hours per mile, so every 5 miles they use 1kWh of electricity.  If you have a typical of Houston 15+ mile commute, you are using about 6-8 kWh per day (round trip).  Now say you don't have a small EV but are using the latest Suburban model that uses 3x-4x that, and you are exceeding (doubling or tripling) the electricity use that you have in your house.  Right now people would struggle to have a solar system that meets 100% of their household needs...imagine having to double that.  We aren't even talking about people who commute further or drive around all day for their jobs, or replacing big rigs, etc.

         

        I am not saying there are not bad things going on and bad politics, but please keep a somewhat open mind, do some research, and help support an energy policy that will actually work and last enough so our kids can have a shot at things as well.

         

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Tyra Rankin
        Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:49 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

         

        Hello everyone:

        Sierra Club has a fast and easy way to Take Action to stop the Texas Coal Rush.  Having just returned from TREIA, we saw lots of economic presentations showing that Renewables are cost competitive with coal and fossil fuels when the external costs of carbon and air pollution are included.  Efficiency technologies are quickly coming online as well.  Other states have already stopped new coal development.  Texas must stop now.

        Texas citizens can be very proud of how they came together to block Perry’s fast track of 12 coal plants 3 years ago.  http://www.fighting goliathfilm. com/

        We now must put the final nail in the coffin, stopping new coal for good in our state. 

        Please take action.  Let’s lead with renewables and efficiency, not coal.

        Best,

        Tyra


        From: email_bounce_ handler@bounce. convio.net [mailto:email_ bounce_handler@ bounce.convio. net] On Behalf Of Eva Hernandez, Sierra Club Texas
        Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:31 AM
        To: tyra@...
        Subject: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush


        View a web version of this email.

        Sierra Club - Explore, enjoy and protect the planet

        Dear Tyra,

        Tell the EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush!

        Tell the EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush!

        Tell the EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush!

        Have you been noticing more about coal in the news lately?  It's because we are in the midst of the second big Coal Rush in Texas with more proposed plants than any other state in the country!

        Recently, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ruled that the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) is not following the Clean Air Act.  For years, the TCEQ has been issuing air permits illegally.  Enough is enough.

        Right now, the EPA is asking for your public comments!  Tell the EPA to stop the Coal Rush in Texas by making the TCEQ do it's job and enforce the Clean Air Act.

        Nowhere else in the United States are citizens facing such serious public health and financial risks as we are facing in Texas because of the large number of proposed new coal plants.   There are many reasons to oppose coal plants -- they cost too much, make people sick, contribute to global warming and use enormous amounts of water.

        Submit your comment today.  Tell the EPA to halt the permitting of any new coal plants until the TCEQ abides by the law.

        Coal plants are a dangerous diversion from the clean power and green jobs economy that Texas is so perfectly suited for and already leading.  We can stop the second Coal Rush in Texas by making sure the TCEQ enforces the Clean Air Act. We deserve it.

        For a Clean Energy Future in Texas ,

        Eva Hernandez
        Sierra Club Texas

        P.S. We need as many comments submitted as possible! 

        If you do not wish to receive future emails like this,
        click here to be removed from this type of email contact.

         

         

         

         

         

        Update My Profile | Manage My Email Preferences | Update My Interests

        Sierra Club
        85 Second St .
        San Francisco , CA 94105

         

      • mkewert@comcast.net
        Warren, I appreciate that you are being practical and I agree that we have to look at the economics. But as Tyra pointed out very well, we also have to push
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 14, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Warren,
          I appreciate that you are being practical and I agree that we have to look at the economics.  But as Tyra pointed out very well, we also have to push things away from business as usual.  How clean are coal plants required to be in Texas now?  I'm curious; I really don't know.  I'm sure it's better than the old ones, but I know there is no limit on CO2 emissions yet.

          As for what renewables and efficiency can realistically do (given favorable policies that level the playing field with coal), a very good source is the ASES report on climate change.
          http://www.ases.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=139&Itemid=16

          Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Russell Warren" <rrwarren@...>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:51:21 AM GMT -06:00 Guadalajara / Mexico City / Monterrey
          Subject: RE: [hreg] FW: Tell EPA to Stop the Texas Coal Rush

           

          

          Although I am skeptical, if we are down in Electricity usage, it has as much to do with us being in a recession as it does of us being more energy efficient.
           
          A lot of my customers have units sitting idle, and I can tell you that once we come out of the recession and people need more gas, beauty products, plastic bottles, etc they will be going full force again.
          This is also probably the reason our pollution is down 2%.
           
          Furthermore a lot of my customers also are now generating their own power off-grid, so the numbers that are released by the major producers, are not entirely indicative of what is going on.
           
          I honestly am on your side.  I have customers in oil & gas, and I also have customers who are in the solar power, and wind energy market as well. 
          I attended the meetings for our Houston 10MW power plant.  Do you know that among that projects initial proposals was to put it in a Water treatment facility just to offset the 6MW of power that the facility uses?
          Again our city's huge victory in renewable energy is enough to generate power for maybe 2 water plants.
           
          Do you have a solar system at your house that generates 100%+ of your energy consumption?  If you do, that's awesome...I bet only a handful on this list do.   If not, why not?   Where does your other power come from?
           
          I personally would rather take the 30,40, and yes even 50+ year old power plants, which are grand fathered right around all our pollution laws, and put in a new clean efficient plant that is subject to all of today's rules and regulations.  Even if we are stable or declining in our electrical usage this is still going to be a necessity.  Those old plants are going to have their permits expire, crap out, or worse.
           
          Now try putting a few GE 1.5MW wind turbines up in your sub-division.  See how far that goes...  If we want to spend some political energy...why don't we start there? 
           
          If people want to make a difference, the best way you can do so is through your pocketbook.  The next time you think about buying that BMW, maybe buy the Corolla instead, and use the difference for more Solar Panels for your roof.  THAT will make a difference.

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