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RE: Do it yourself Solar Panels - Kevin

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  • Neldon Costin
    If you knew Kevin the way I do, you would never make a statement like that.  He did not say not to learn how. He has done more PV,... and had more experience
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 4, 2009
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      If you knew Kevin the way I do, you would never make a statement like that.  He did not say not to learn how.

      He has done more PV,... and had more experience than most will ever know.  He did not say you could not do it, but mainly that it would cost you more.   With his knowledge and experience, you better really know your stuff to challenge what he says.

       If you bought the parts to build a car, the cost would be out of site.


      --- On Wed, 11/4/09, offgridhomesteading.com <theduderulez@...> wrote:

      From: offgridhomesteading.com <theduderulez@...>
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 6:10 PM

       

      Kevin to work for a solar company and to tell people not to learn how to do something that may well be a beneficial skill in the coming future is asinine, and it is possible to make them cheaper and have them put out just as much power as the commercial panels, there is nothing that commercial manufactures do different from Joe in his garage except the film that they are vacuum sealed in. Those that say that someone cant do, need to get out of the way of those doing.

      David
      OffGridHomesteading .com

      Living off the GRID in Texas


      --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Kevin Conlin <kevin@heliosolardes ign.com> wrote:

      From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@heliosolardes ign.com>
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:17 PM

       

      Sorry, building your own solar panels does not make any sense at all.  No one can do it better or cheaper than the manufacturers, and anyone who underestimates what it takes to make a solar module survive 30 years of continuous exposure to the elements is going to make an expensive mistake.
       
      I guarantee it will cost anyone 3X to make their own panel, and you'll still have a vastly inferior product to what is commercially available.
       
      Kevin Conlin
      Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      13534 Quetzal Lane
      Houston, TX 77083
      C:  (281) 202-9629
      H:  (281) 530-7501
      F:  (281) 530-7501
       
       
       


      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of naturewoman2009
      Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:01 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

       

      Here are two sites that give a plethora of information on building your own solar panels. I'm told it's not enough power for the whole home, but it sounds like fun!

      http://www.freesunp ower.com/

      Instructables. com (type PV or solar panels in search field)

      -Pat

      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00



    • Robert Johnston
      David, I think your response to Kevin is over-the-top. He is a very helpful and well-informed contributor here who is trying to save someone an expensive
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 4, 2009
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        David,

         

        I think your response to Kevin is over-the-top.  He is a very helpful and well-informed contributor here who is trying to save someone an expensive mistake.  If you disagree with his advice, you can be nice about it and then provide specific facts to support your disagreement, rather than just flaming without any specifics.  The seemingly minor difference you mentioned is actually critically important and difficult to get right. 

         

        Next time, you might want to read the rules on your own forum (assuming you own OffGridHomesteading.com) and apply them to your behavior here:

         

        #3 - Do NOT crap on other peoples ideas - While it may not make sense to you, it does to others. If you do not have anything positive to contribute keep quiet. Think about where we would be if people told Franklin, Tesla and Edison their ideas were stupid.

        #4 - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE FLAMING OR ANY TYPE OF HATRED TOWARDS ANYONE HERE AND YOU WILL BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY - No questions, no notice.

         

        Robert

         

        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of offgridhomesteading.com
        Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:11 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

         

         

        Kevin to work for a solar company and to tell people not to learn how to do something that may well be a beneficial skill in the coming future is asinine, and it is possible to make them cheaper and have them put out just as much power as the commercial panels, there is nothing that commercial manufactures do different from Joe in his garage except the film that they are vacuum sealed in. Those that say that someone cant do, need to get out of the way of those doing.

        David
        OffGridHomesteading.com
        Living off the GRID in Texas


        --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Kevin Conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


        From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@...>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:17 PM

         

        Sorry, building your own solar panels does not make any sense at all.  No one can do it better or cheaper than the manufacturers, and anyone who underestimates what it takes to make a solar module survive 30 years of continuous exposure to the elements is going to make an expensive mistake.

         

        I guarantee it will cost anyone 3X to make their own panel, and you'll still have a vastly inferior product to what is commercially available.

         

        Kevin Conlin

        Heliosolar Design, Inc.

        13534 Quetzal Lane

        Houston, TX 77083

        C:  (281) 202-9629

        H:  (281) 530-7501

        F:  (281) 530-7501

        kevin@heliosolardes ign.com

         

         

         

         


        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of naturewoman2009
        Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:01 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panelswell

         

        Here are two sites that give a plethora of information on building your own solar panels. I'm told it's not enough power for the whole home, but it sounds like fun!

        http://www.freesunp ower.com/

        Instructables. com (type PV or solar panels in search field)

        -Pat

        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00

         

      • Kevin Conlin
        No it s not. The purpose of this group is to share information, and my advice to this group is to not fool themselves into thinking there is any logical reason
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 4, 2009
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          No it's not. The purpose of this group is to share information, and my advice to this group is to not fool themselves into thinking there is any logical reason to try and build their own PV module.
           
          Perhaps you can share with the group how you do it?  Can you explain to us how you determined the correct cell interconnect geometry to overcome long term work hardening due to daily thermal cycling, a typical failure mode in an inexpensive panel?
           
          Kevin Conlin
          Heliosolar Design, Inc.
          13534 Quetzal Lane
          Houston, TX 77083
          C:  (281) 202-9629
          H:  (281) 530-7501
          F:  (281) 530-7501
           
           
           


          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of offgridhomesteading.com
          Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:11 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

           

          Kevin to work for a solar company and to tell people not to learn how to do something that may well be a beneficial skill in the coming future is asinine, and it is possible to make them cheaper and have them put out just as much power as the commercial panels, there is nothing that commercial manufactures do different from Joe in his garage except the film that they are vacuum sealed in. Those that say that someone cant do, need to get out of the way of those doing.

          David
          OffGridHomesteading .com

          Living off the GRID in Texas


          --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Kevin Conlin <kevin@heliosolardes ign.com> wrote:

          From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@heliosolardes ign.com>
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:17 PM

           

          Sorry, building your own solar panels does not make any sense at all.  No one can do it better or cheaper than the manufacturers, and anyone who underestimates what it takes to make a solar module survive 30 years of continuous exposure to the elements is going to make an expensive mistake.
           
          I guarantee it will cost anyone 3X to make their own panel, and you'll still have a vastly inferior product to what is commercially available.
           
          Kevin Conlin
          Heliosolar Design, Inc.
          13534 Quetzal Lane
          Houston, TX 77083
          C:  (281) 202-9629
          H:  (281) 530-7501
          F:  (281) 530-7501
           
           
           


          From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of naturewoman2009
          Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:01 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

           

          Here are two sites that give a plethora of information on building your own solar panels. I'm told it's not enough power for the whole home, but it sounds like fun!

          http://www.freesunp ower.com/

          Instructables. com (type PV or solar panels in search field)

          -Pat

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00

        • Jay
          Most of the home built panels that I have seen are built out of broken surplus cells. I ve looked at surplus cells before, and some of the cells were
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 4, 2009
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            Most of the home built panels that I have seen are built out of broken surplus cells. I've looked at surplus cells before, and some of the cells were completely destroyed (only a single contact/trace), but many were sufficiently intact that you could get some current out of them.

            With cells like these, almost any layout would have to be highly irregular, so I would not think cell to cell expansion would be a major issue. Since you are soldering them with wire, by hand, I don't see too much issue there. Use SN96 solder, and make sure to avoid oxidation on the tip and you should end up with a good joint. If you end up having problems with embrittlement or work hardening, a conductive epoxy might be worth trying. I have not tried this though, so there may be some issues.

            I would think the hardest problem will be getting a good voltage balance between the dozens of crazy string fragments you are going to end up with. Use lots of bypass diodes and don't set expectations too high, I would say.

            Also realize your power density is going to be horrible since the surplus cells won't fit together even remotely tightly packed.

            No matter what you do you will end up with a low quality panel, but it could be inexpensive as long as you don't value high performance or the man hours you spend on it. For me, personally, I would rather buy a high performance panel and spend my time on something else.

            But as an experiment I would say, go for it. If someone brought a homebrew panel by the next HREG meeting I would be interested in seeing it and hearing about it.

            Have fun guys -

            - Jay








            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:
            >
            > No it's not. The purpose of this group is to share information, and my
            > advice to this group is to not fool themselves into thinking there is any
            > logical reason to try and build their own PV module.
            >
            > Perhaps you can share with the group how you do it? Can you explain to us
            > how you determined the correct cell interconnect geometry to overcome long
            > term work hardening due to daily thermal cycling, a typical failure mode in
            > an inexpensive panel?
            >
            > Kevin Conlin
            > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
            > 13534 Quetzal Lane
            > Houston, TX 77083
            > C: (281) 202-9629
            > H: (281) 530-7501
            > F: (281) 530-7501
            > kevin@...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > offgridhomesteading.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:11 PM
            > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Kevin to work for a solar company and to tell people not to learn how to do
            > something that may well be a beneficial skill in the coming future is
            > asinine, and it is possible to make them cheaper and have them put out just
            > as much power as the commercial panels, there is nothing that commercial
            > manufactures do different from Joe in his garage except the film that they
            > are vacuum sealed in. Those that say that someone cant do, need to get out
            > of the way of those doing.
            >
            > David
            > OffGridHomesteading.com
            > Living off the GRID in Texas
            >
            >
            > --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Kevin Conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@...>
            > Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
            > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:17 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sorry, building your own solar panels does not make any sense at all. No
            > one can do it better or cheaper than the manufacturers, and anyone who
            > underestimates what it takes to make a solar module survive 30 years of
            > continuous exposure to the elements is going to make an expensive mistake.
            >
            > I guarantee it will cost anyone 3X to make their own panel, and you'll still
            > have a vastly inferior product to what is commercially available.
            >
            > Kevin Conlin
            > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
            > 13534 Quetzal Lane
            > Houston, TX 77083
            > C: (281) 202-9629
            > H: (281) 530-7501
            > F: (281) 530-7501
            > kevin@heliosolardes ign.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
            > naturewoman2009
            > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:01 PM
            > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
            > Subject: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Here are two sites that give a plethora of information on building your own
            > solar panels. I'm told it's not enough power for the whole home, but it
            > sounds like fun!
            >
            > http://www.freesunp ower.com/ <http://www.freesunpower.com/>
            >
            > Instructables. com (type PV or solar panels in search field)
            >
            > -Pat
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09
            > 07:37:00
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09
            > 07:37:00
            >
          • Tyra Rankin
            Robert: Your comment is extremely well written and expressed. I have learned much from Kevin s generosity and support of this group, and appreciate his
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 4, 2009
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              Robert:

               

              Your comment is extremely well written and expressed.  I have learned much from Kevin’s generosity and support of this group, and appreciate his willingness to be a resource. 

               

              David:

               

              It is odd that you use Kevin’s experience in the solar industry against him, as if to discredit him because of his experience.  Individuals with a depth of skill, experience and training in solar are extremely few and rare.   

               

              Feel free to build your own…radio, TV, CPU, airplane, solar panel.   When you have questions, Kevin is someone you can call.

               

              Tyra

               

               


              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Johnston
              Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:43 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

               

               

              David,

               

              I think your response to Kevin is over-the-top.  He is a very helpful and well-informed contributor here who is trying to save someone an expensive mistake.  If you disagree with his advice, you can be nice about it and then provide specific facts to support your disagreement, rather than just flaming without any specifics.  The seemingly minor difference you mentioned is actually critically important and difficult to get right. 

               

              Next time, you might want to read the rules on your own forum (assuming you own OffGridHomesteading .com) and apply them to your behavior here:

               

              #3 - Do NOT crap on other peoples ideas - While it may not make sense to you, it does to others. If you do not have anything positive to contribute keep quiet. Think about where we would be if people told Franklin, Tesla and Edison their ideas were stupid.

              #4 - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE FLAMING OR ANY TYPE OF HATRED TOWARDS ANYONE HERE AND YOU WILL BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY - No questions, no notice.

               

              Robert

               

              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of offgridhomesteading .com
              Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:11 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

               

               

              Kevin to work for a solar company and to tell people not to learn how to do something that may well be a beneficial skill in the coming future is asinine, and it is possible to make them cheaper and have them put out just as much power as the commercial panels, there is nothing that commercial manufactures do different from Joe in his garage except the film that they are vacuum sealed in. Those that say that someone cant do, need to get out of the way of those doing.

              David
              OffGridHomesteading .com
              Living off the GRID in Texas


              --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Kevin Conlin < kevin@heliosolardes ign.com > wrote:


              From: Kevin Conlin < kevin@heliosolardes ign.com >
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:17 PM

               

              Sorry, building your own solar panels does not make any sense at all.  No one can do it better or cheaper than the manufacturers, and anyone who underestimates what it takes to make a solar module survive 30 years of continuous exposure to the elements is going to make an expensive mistake.

               

              I guarantee it will cost anyone 3X to make their own panel, and you'll still have a vastly inferior product to what is commercially available.

               

              Kevin Conlin

              Heliosolar Design, Inc.

              13534 Quetzal Lane

              Houston, TX 77083

              C:  (281) 202-9629

              H:  (281) 530-7501

              F:  (281) 530-7501

              kevin@heliosolardes ign.com

               

               

               

               


              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of naturewoman2009
              Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:01 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panelswell

               

              Here are two sites that give a plethora of information on building your own solar panels. I'm told it's not enough power for the whole home, but it sounds like fun!

              http://www.freesunp ower.com/

              Instructables. com (type PV or solar panels in search field)

              -Pat

              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00

               

            • offgridhomesteading.com
              If you feel I was showing hatred or flaming him then I will apologize, here in Texas we call that a disagreement with a statement after, thats fine that hes
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 5, 2009
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                If you feel I was showing hatred or flaming him then I will apologize, here in Texas we call that a disagreement with a statement after, thats fine that hes was "trying" to keep someone from making a mistake but I stand by my statement 100%

                David
                OffGridHomesteading.com

                Living off the GRID in Texas


                --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Robert Johnston <junk1@...> wrote:

                From: Robert Johnston <junk1@...>
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 7:43 PM

                 

                David,

                 

                I think your response to Kevin is over-the-top.  He is a very helpful and well-informed contributor here who is trying to save someone an expensive mistake.  If you disagree with his advice, you can be nice about it and then provide specific facts to support your disagreement, rather than just flaming without any specifics.  The seemingly minor difference you mentioned is actually critically important and difficult to get right. 

                 

                Next time, you might want to read the rules on your own forum (assuming you own OffGridHomesteading .com) and apply them to your behavior here:

                 

                #3 - Do NOT crap on other peoples ideas - While it may not make sense to you, it does to others. If you do not have anything positive to contribute keep quiet. Think about where we would be if people told Franklin, Tesla and Edison their ideas were stupid.

                #4 - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE FLAMING OR ANY TYPE OF HATRED TOWARDS ANYONE HERE AND YOU WILL BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY - No questions, no notice.

                 

                Robert

                 

                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of offgridhomesteading .com
                Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:11 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels

                 

                 

                Kevin to work for a solar company and to tell people not to learn how to do something that may well be a beneficial skill in the coming future is asinine, and it is possible to make them cheaper and have them put out just as much power as the commercial panels, there is nothing that commercial manufactures do different from Joe in his garage except the film that they are vacuum sealed in. Those that say that someone cant do, need to get out of the way of those doing.

                David
                OffGridHomesteading .com
                Living off the GRID in Texas


                --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Kevin Conlin <kevin@heliosolardes ign.com> wrote:


                From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@heliosolardes ign.com>
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panels
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:17 PM

                 

                Sorry, building your own solar panels does not make any sense at all.  No one can do it better or cheaper than the manufacturers, and anyone who underestimates what it takes to make a solar module survive 30 years of continuous exposure to the elements is going to make an expensive mistake.

                 

                I guarantee it will cost anyone 3X to make their own panel, and you'll still have a vastly inferior product to what is commercially available.

                 

                Kevin Conlin

                Heliosolar Design, Inc.

                13534 Quetzal Lane

                Houston, TX 77083

                C:  (281) 202-9629

                H:  (281) 530-7501

                F:  (281) 530-7501

                kevin@heliosolardes ign.com

                 

                 

                 

                 


                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of naturewoman2009
                Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:01 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [hreg] Do it yourself Solar Panelswell

                 

                Here are two sites that give a plethora of information on building your own solar panels. I'm told it's not enough power for the whole home, but it sounds like fun!

                http://www.freesunp ower.com/

                Instructables. com (type PV or solar panels in search field)

                -Pat

                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/04/09 07:37:00

                 


              • steven_stelzer
                A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 5, 2009
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                  A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the permit process. These tests cost money. Part of this huge cost is recouped by manufacturers in their panel prices. DIY panels would not be allowed in Houston's jurisdiction.

                  BTW, this is not big brother; it's health, safety, and welfare of the public. The City also requires a structural engineer to certify that the panels and the structure they are attached to will withstand 110 mph winds. Anyone want a loose solar panel flying through their house in a hurricane?

                  Steve Stelzer
                • Kevin Conlin
                  That s an excellent point, Steve, the potential for a high voltage DC fault or fire is very real. Kevin Conlin Heliosolar Design, Inc. 13534 Quetzal Lane
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That's an excellent point, Steve, the potential for a high voltage DC fault or fire is very real.
                     
                    Kevin Conlin
                    Heliosolar Design, Inc.
                    13534 Quetzal Lane
                    Houston, TX 77083
                    C:  (281) 202-9629
                    H:  (281) 530-7501
                    F:  (281) 530-7501
                     
                     
                     


                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of steven_stelzer
                    Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:23 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                     

                    A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the permit process. These tests cost money. Part of this huge cost is recouped by manufacturers in their panel prices. DIY panels would not be allowed in Houston's jurisdiction.

                    BTW, this is not big brother; it's health, safety, and welfare of the public. The City also requires a structural engineer to certify that the panels and the structure they are attached to will withstand 110 mph winds. Anyone want a loose solar panel flying through their house in a hurricane?

                    Steve Stelzer

                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date: 11/05/09 19:52:00

                  • justin@gulfcoastrenewableresources.com
                    I too, would not recommend trying to power your home with a DIY solar kit; however, it would be a great small project for someone with some time and a garage
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
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                      I too, would not recommend trying to power your home with a DIY solar kit; however, it would be a great small project for someone with some time and a garage to "tinker" in. Building your own module to power a small device can be fun and a great learning experience for those who don't know the mechanics of PV technology. I bought a small panel from Academy and use it to charge my camping lanterns, or use it to run a small radio that normally runs on a 9 volt battery. My kids love it and it gets a lot of attention when we are at the beach. I have not yet built one myself, but I'm sure it could be a fun project. For those of us who normally deal with large manufacturer's panels, building your own for small, controlled situations could bring a sense of pride. But again, the notion of building your own to power your home is like most have already said...a bad idea.
                       
                      Justin Owens
                      Gulf Coast Renewable Resources
                      (409)766-0208
                      www.GulfCoastRenewableResources.com
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:58 PM
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                       

                      That's an excellent point, Steve, the potential for a high voltage DC fault or fire is very real.
                       
                      Kevin Conlin
                      Heliosolar Design, Inc.
                      13534 Quetzal Lane
                      Houston, TX 77083
                      C:  (281) 202-9629
                      H:  (281) 530-7501
                      F:  (281) 530-7501
                       
                       
                       


                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of steven_stelzer
                      Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:23 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                       

                      A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the permit process. These tests cost money. Part of this huge cost is recouped by manufacturers in their panel prices. DIY panels would not be allowed in Houston's jurisdiction.

                      BTW, this is not big brother; it's health, safety, and welfare of the public. The City also requires a structural engineer to certify that the panels and the structure they are attached to will withstand 110 mph winds. Anyone want a loose solar panel flying through their house in a hurricane?

                      Steve Stelzer

                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date: 11/05/09 19:52:00

                    • offgridhomesteading.com
                      I am just appalled at the feeling I get from this group, I have seen numerous emails seeming to steer people away from DIY and more towards buy my manufactured
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I am just appalled at the feeling I get from this group, I have seen numerous emails seeming to steer people away from DIY and more towards buy my manufactured crap, don't get me wrong yes manufactured are built with all the tools needed to make them but I just refuse the buy manufactured mentality this group seems to have, even down to the Solar cookers with brand new materials instead of recycled a few weeks ago, maybe I am wrong IDK. Maybe I expected different when I seen the name Houston Reusable Energy Group, I hoped for something more people based as in let me show you how if you don't have the thousands of dollars to make other people richer buying their mass marketed, mass manufactured products. I guess I was wrong.

                        David
                        OffGridHomesteading.com

                        Living off the GRID in Texas


                        --- On Fri, 11/6/09, justin@... <justin@...> wrote:

                        From: justin@... <justin@...>
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 8:31 AM

                         

                        I too, would not recommend trying to power your home with a DIY solar kit; however, it would be a great small project for someone with some time and a garage to "tinker" in. Building your own module to power a small device can be fun and a great learning experience for those who don't know the mechanics of PV technology. I bought a small panel from Academy and use it to charge my camping lanterns, or use it to run a small radio that normally runs on a 9 volt battery. My kids love it and it gets a lot of attention when we are at the beach. I have not yet built one myself, but I'm sure it could be a fun project. For those of us who normally deal with large manufacturer' s panels, building your own for small, controlled situations could bring a sense of pride. But again, the notion of building your own to power your home is like most have already said...a bad idea.
                         
                        Justin Owens
                        Gulf Coast Renewable Resources
                        (409)766-0208
                        www.GulfCoastRenewa bleResources. com
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:58 PM
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                         

                        That's an excellent point, Steve, the potential for a high voltage DC fault or fire is very real.
                         
                        Kevin Conlin
                        Heliosolar Design, Inc.
                        13534 Quetzal Lane
                        Houston, TX 77083
                        C:  (281) 202-9629
                        H:  (281) 530-7501
                        F:  (281) 530-7501
                         
                         
                         


                        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of steven_stelzer
                        Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:23 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                         

                        A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the permit process. These tests cost money. Part of this huge cost is recouped by manufacturers in their panel prices. DIY panels would not be allowed in Houston's jurisdiction.

                        BTW, this is not big brother; it's health, safety, and welfare of the public. The City also requires a structural engineer to certify that the panels and the structure they are attached to will withstand 110 mph winds. Anyone want a loose solar panel flying through their house in a hurricane?

                        Steve Stelzer

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date: 11/05/09 19:52:00


                      • Russell Warren
                        David, I am not sure what you are trying to say in your response. Below you are stating that DIY is for people who don t have thousands of dollars. People
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          
                          David,
                          I am not sure what you are trying to say in your response.  Below you are stating that DIY is for people who don't have thousands of dollars.  People are trying to tell you that you will actually save money by buying panels from a reputable manufacturer.  Furthermore those panels are tested to be safe in a number of manners that your own DIY panels can never be.
                           
                          One fundamental issue is that buying new materials and in mass quantities is far cheaper than using recycled material.  That alone is probably the number one issue our world faces.  Peoples wallets dictate their decisions far more than their social or moral responsibilities.  It sucks, but it is the way the world works.
                           
                          The problem with renewable energy right now is it is only encouraged by a few enthusiasts.  This list is trying to help bring renewable energy to the masses, and quite frankly I believe they are targeting the right audience.
                           
                          Everyone has encouraged you to try a small DIY kit for education, and testing, but they also concur that on mass scale, it is not the best solution for many reasons.  Just because you don't like the answer they gave you, does not make it the wrong answer.
                           
                          This list is for all people with interest in renewable energy, and just as much as you feel it should not be pointed to "greedy" corporations, it should also not be restricted to a very small percentage of people that would actually take on the kind of project you are looking at.
                           
                          I think what you are doing is great, but don't cut down other people for doing great things either.
                           
                          Regards,
                          Russell
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of offgridhomesteading.com
                          Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 9:15 AM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                           

                          I am just appalled at the feeling I get from this group, I have seen numerous emails seeming to steer people away from DIY and more towards buy my manufactured crap, don't get me wrong yes manufactured are built with all the tools needed to make them but I just refuse the buy manufactured mentality this group seems to have, even down to the Solar cookers with brand new materials instead of recycled a few weeks ago, maybe I am wrong IDK. Maybe I expected different when I seen the name Houston Reusable Energy Group, I hoped for something more people based as in let me show you how if you don't have the thousands of dollars to make other people richer buying their mass marketed, mass manufactured products. I guess I was wrong.

                          David
                          OffGridHomesteading .com

                          Living off the GRID in Texas


                          --- On Fri, 11/6/09, justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com <justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com> wrote:

                          From: justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com <justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com>
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 8:31 AM

                           

                          I too, would not recommend trying to power your home with a DIY solar kit; however, it would be a great small project for someone with some time and a garage to "tinker" in. Building your own module to power a small device can be fun and a great learning experience for those who don't know the mechanics of PV technology. I bought a small panel from Academy and use it to charge my camping lanterns, or use it to run a small radio that normally runs on a 9 volt battery. My kids love it and it gets a lot of attention when we are at the beach. I have not yet built one myself, but I'm sure it could be a fun project. For those of us who normally deal with large manufacturer' s panels, building your own for small, controlled situations could bring a sense of pride. But again, the notion of building your own to power your home is like most have already said...a bad idea.
                           
                          Justin Owens
                          Gulf Coast Renewable Resources
                          (409)766-0208
                          www.GulfCoastRenewa bleResources. com
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:58 PM
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                           

                          That's an excellent point, Steve, the potential for a high voltage DC fault or fire is very real.
                           
                          Kevin Conlin
                          Heliosolar Design, Inc.
                          13534 Quetzal Lane
                          Houston, TX 77083
                          C:  (281) 202-9629
                          H:  (281) 530-7501
                          F:  (281) 530-7501
                           
                           
                           


                          From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of steven_stelzer
                          Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:23 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                           

                          A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the permit process. These tests cost money. Part of this huge cost is recouped by manufacturers in their panel prices. DIY panels would not be allowed in Houston's jurisdiction.

                          BTW, this is not big brother; it's health, safety, and welfare of the public. The City also requires a structural engineer to certify that the panels and the structure they are attached to will withstand 110 mph winds. Anyone want a loose solar panel flying through their house in a hurricane?

                          Steve Stelzer

                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date: 11/05/09 19:52:00


                        • Garth & Kim Travis
                          Greetings, David, you have not been in trouble with the list owner, in case you noticed. I too am heavy into DIY. I have a store bought solar cooler, it has
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Greetings,
                            David, you have not been in trouble with the list owner, in case you
                            noticed. I too am heavy into DIY. I have a store bought solar cooler,
                            it has never worked as well as my homemade funnel cooker.

                            However, the name of the group is Houston Renewable Energy, not
                            Reuseable. I like you name, it is a good one.

                            This group is mainly for people that want to be part of renewable energy
                            but can not do DIY for many reasons. Yes, there is a bias against
                            DIY, but don't let that bias drive you away. Some of us are heavy
                            DIYers and enjoy reading your posts.

                            Bright Blessings,
                            Kim
                            www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

                            offgridhomesteading.com wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I am just appalled at the feeling I get from this group, I have seen
                            > numerous emails seeming to steer people away from DIY and more towards
                            > buy my manufactured crap, don't get me wrong yes manufactured are
                            > built with all the tools needed to make them but I just refuse the buy
                            > manufactured mentality this group seems to have, even down to the
                            > Solar cookers with brand new materials instead of recycled a few weeks
                            > ago, maybe I am wrong IDK. Maybe I expected different when I seen the
                            > name Houston Reusable Energy Group, I hoped for something more people
                            > based as in let me show you how if you don't have the thousands of
                            > dollars to make other people richer buying their mass marketed, mass
                            > manufactured products. I guess I was wrong.
                            >
                            > David
                            > OffGridHomesteading.com
                            > Living off the GRID in Texas
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • offgridhomesteading.com
                            Thank you for your thoughtful reply and I am glad that you are heavy into DIY because real innovations come from people like us that tinker and find new ways
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thank you for your thoughtful reply and I am glad that you are heavy into DIY because real innovations come from people like us that tinker and find new ways to do things without millions of dollars of grant money to chunk around, I have decided that I will be a part of this group but I will just lurk and see what I see, I applaud you for your DIY and hope that you keep it up.

                              David
                              OffGridHomesteading.com

                              Living off the GRID in Texas


                              --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:

                              From: Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 1:32 PM

                               

                              Greetings,
                              David, you have not been in trouble with the list owner, in case you
                              noticed. I too am heavy into DIY. I have a store bought solar cooler,
                              it has never worked as well as my homemade funnel cooker.

                              However, the name of the group is Houston Renewable Energy, not
                              Reuseable. I like you name, it is a good one.

                              This group is mainly for people that want to be part of renewable energy
                              but can not do DIY for many reasons. Yes, there is a bias against
                              DIY, but don't let that bias drive you away. Some of us are heavy
                              DIYers and enjoy reading your posts.

                              Bright Blessings,
                              Kim
                              www.TheRoseColoredF orest.com

                              offgridhomesteading .com wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I am just appalled at the feeling I get from this group, I have seen
                              > numerous emails seeming to steer people away from DIY and more towards
                              > buy my manufactured crap, don't get me wrong yes manufactured are
                              > built with all the tools needed to make them but I just refuse the buy
                              > manufactured mentality this group seems to have, even down to the
                              > Solar cookers with brand new materials instead of recycled a few weeks
                              > ago, maybe I am wrong IDK. Maybe I expected different when I seen the
                              > name Houston Reusable Energy Group, I hoped for something more people
                              > based as in let me show you how if you don't have the thousands of
                              > dollars to make other people richer buying their mass marketed, mass
                              > manufactured products. I guess I was wrong.
                              >
                              > David
                              > OffGridHomesteading .com
                              > Living off the GRID in Texas
                              >
                              >
                              >


                            • Kevin Conlin
                              I would hardly call pv panels made by Sharp, Kyocera, BP and SolarWorld crap. They come with a 25 year warranty, and are designed to last 50 years or more.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I would hardly call pv panels made by Sharp, Kyocera, BP and SolarWorld crap.  They come with a 25 year warranty, and are designed to last 50 years or more.
                                 
                                They are constructed of high grade materials that aren't even available to the average homeowner.  They have been engineered and manufactured to standards based on 25 or more years of manufacturing experience and field installations.
                                 
                                For my dollar, I want the benefit of their knowledge, experience and manufacturing economies of scale.
                                 
                                Even after tens of thousands of systems, I cannot remember a single failure due to a defective module.
                                 
                                Regardless of cost, they are definitely not crap.
                                 
                                Kevin Conlin
                                Heliosolar Design, Inc.
                                13534 Quetzal Lane
                                Houston, TX 77083
                                C:  (281) 202-9629
                                H:  (281) 530-7501
                                F:  (281) 530-7501
                                 
                                 
                                 


                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of offgridhomesteading.com
                                Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 9:15 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                                 

                                I am just appalled at the feeling I get from this group, I have seen numerous emails seeming to steer people away from DIY and more towards buy my manufactured crap, don't get me wrong yes manufactured are built with all the tools needed to make them but I just refuse the buy manufactured mentality this group seems to have, even down to the Solar cookers with brand new materials instead of recycled a few weeks ago, maybe I am wrong IDK. Maybe I expected different when I seen the name Houston Reusable Energy Group, I hoped for something more people based as in let me show you how if you don't have the thousands of dollars to make other people richer buying their mass marketed, mass manufactured products. I guess I was wrong.

                                David
                                OffGridHomesteading .com

                                Living off the GRID in Texas


                                --- On Fri, 11/6/09, justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com <justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com> wrote:

                                From: justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com <justin@gulfcoastren ewableresources. com>
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 8:31 AM

                                 

                                I too, would not recommend trying to power your home with a DIY solar kit; however, it would be a great small project for someone with some time and a garage to "tinker" in. Building your own module to power a small device can be fun and a great learning experience for those who don't know the mechanics of PV technology. I bought a small panel from Academy and use it to charge my camping lanterns, or use it to run a small radio that normally runs on a 9 volt battery. My kids love it and it gets a lot of attention when we are at the beach. I have not yet built one myself, but I'm sure it could be a fun project. For those of us who normally deal with large manufacturer' s panels, building your own for small, controlled situations could bring a sense of pride. But again, the notion of building your own to power your home is like most have already said...a bad idea.
                                 
                                Justin Owens
                                Gulf Coast Renewable Resources
                                (409)766-0208
                                www.GulfCoastRenewa bleResources. com
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:58 PM
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                                 

                                That's an excellent point, Steve, the potential for a high voltage DC fault or fire is very real.
                                 
                                Kevin Conlin
                                Heliosolar Design, Inc.
                                13534 Quetzal Lane
                                Houston, TX 77083
                                C:  (281) 202-9629
                                H:  (281) 530-7501
                                F:  (281) 530-7501
                                 
                                 
                                 


                                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of steven_stelzer
                                Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:23 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels

                                 

                                A further constraint to DIY Solar Panels is code compliance. Houston, for instance, requires solar panels to be listed by a testing agency as part of the permit process. These tests cost money. Part of this huge cost is recouped by manufacturers in their panel prices. DIY panels would not be allowed in Houston's jurisdiction.

                                BTW, this is not big brother; it's health, safety, and welfare of the public. The City also requires a structural engineer to certify that the panels and the structure they are attached to will withstand 110 mph winds. Anyone want a loose solar panel flying through their house in a hurricane?

                                Steve Stelzer

                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date: 11/05/09 19:52:00


                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date: 11/06/09 07:38:00

                              • Neldon Costin
                                David, if your intention is to get people emotional and to become defensive, you are very successful. If it is to get people on your side and support you, you
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  David, if your intention is to get people emotional and to become defensive, you are very successful. If it is to get people on your side and support you, you are failing. You might want to evaluating how you say things and try to be a little kinder and gentler. That is the Texas way I learned growing up.

                                  Quit attacking people. Maybe support your self with technical knowledge...

                                  I don't know you, but first impressions are lasting impressions.


                                  --- On Fri, 11/6/09, offgridhomesteading.com <theduderulez@...> wrote:

                                  From: offgridhomesteading.com <theduderulez@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 4:41 PM

                                  Wow looks like all your doing is scare mongering.

                                  David
                                  OffGridHomesteading.com
                                  Living off the GRID in Texas
                                • offgridhomesteading.com
                                  well Neldon, I am not looking for anything, but what I have found tells me alot, thank you for your reply. David OffGridHomesteading.com Living off the GRID in
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 6, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    well Neldon, I am not looking for anything, but what I have found tells me alot, thank you for your reply.

                                    David
                                    OffGridHomesteading.com

                                    Living off the GRID in Texas


                                    --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Neldon Costin <neldoncostin@...> wrote:

                                    From: Neldon Costin <neldoncostin@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 5:55 PM

                                     

                                    David, if your intention is to get people emotional and to become defensive, you are very successful. If it is to get people on your side and support you, you are failing. You might want to evaluating how you say things and try to be a little kinder and gentler. That is the Texas way I learned growing up.

                                    Quit attacking people. Maybe support your self with technical knowledge...

                                    I don't know you, but first impressions are lasting impressions.

                                    --- On Fri, 11/6/09, offgridhomesteading .com <theduderulez@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                    From: offgridhomesteading .com <theduderulez@ yahoo.com>
                                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Do it yourself Solar Panels
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                    Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 4:41 PM

                                    Wow looks like all your doing is scare mongering.

                                    David
                                    OffGridHomesteading .com
                                    Living off the GRID in Texas


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