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Re: HREG Solar Air Conditioning Tour Recap

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  • jay.ring@ymail.com
    I know Sanyo and LG make models too, but I can t tell if they are different or just rebrands. I would love some sort of break down. Next up someone needs to
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 14, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I know Sanyo and LG make models too, but I can't tell if they are different or just rebrands. I would love some sort of break down.

      Next up someone needs to design one of these crossed with a ground source heat pump :)

      Is the Mr Slim DC powered, or AC only? I am not against AC powered, there is a lot of convenience there for code compliance, but for solar, the whole DC to AC to DC and then back to AC seems a little much...

      There is another good push we could all work on - update the N.E.C. to be DC friendlier!




      --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:
      >
      > My contractor just finished installing a two zone heat pump Mr. Slim in our
      > community clubhouse, and the only way you can tell if they're on is by the
      > LED's. The indoor units are 3 speed, which is a nice feature, but even on
      > high, the ceiling fans make more noise. Even the outdoor unit is barely
      > audible.
      >
      > Kevin Conlin
      > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      > 13534 Quetzal Lane
      > Houston, TX 77083
      > C: (281) 202-9629
      > H: (281) 530-7501
      > F: (281) 530-7501
      > kevin@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan
      > Silvano
      > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:46 PM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: Susan Silvano
      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: HREG Solar Air Conditioning Tour Recap
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Although my company is headquartered in Houston, we live in St. Thomas in
      > the U.S. Virgin Islands. We have built our home there, and have installed
      > five Mr. Slim's in our home, two in the apartment under our house and one
      > in the pool cabana. The first was installed about three years ago. We have
      > not had a minute's trouble with any of the units and they work great. We
      > got federal and territory rebates on each of the units. The filters are
      > easily removed and we wash them about once a quarter. I highly recommend
      > going in this direction vs. a ducted system - much cheaper and more
      > efficient as we very rarely turn on all the units.
      >
      >
      > Now, all we have to do is figure out how to get them to work using solar.
      >
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Susan
      >
      > Susan Silvano
      > President
      > Career Management International, Inc.
      > 713-623-8780 Corporate Office
      > 713-252-0924 Cell
      >
      > CMI. Supporting the business of people.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sep 14, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Kevin Conlin wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Jay, Good question, no one asked about the filter, but I'm guessing it
      > does have a washable one inside the unit.
      >
      > I agree, between no duct work, selective cooling and high efficiency, I too
      > believe they are the next wave. Problem is finding anyone willing to learn
      > the technology. It took me 3 months to find a cooperative ac contractor as
      > we just installed a 2 zone Mitsubishi Mr.. Slim on our community clubhouse.
      > Every one tried to talk me into ductwork.
      >
      > Since solar panels are not specifically excluded in deed restrictions, it
      > might be worth educating the architectural committee on your homeowners BOD.
      > Traditionally the courts have ruled in favor of the homeowners when solar is
      > challenged, but most people don't want that fight.
      >
      > Best Regards, Kevin
      >
      > Kevin Conlin
      > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      > 13534 Quetzal Lane
      > Houston, TX 77083
      > C: (281) 202-9629
      > H: (281) 530-7501
      > F: (281) 530-7501
      > kevin@heliosolardes <mailto:kevin@...> ign.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > jay.ring@...
      > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:01 AM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [hreg] Re: HREG Solar Air Conditioning Tour Recap
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > That was a great summery, very detailed. Thanks Kevin!
      >
      > I was planning on going, I was very disappointed to miss it.
      >
      > These split systems seem to be the way forward, at least for the energy/cost
      > conscious crowd. The part about only cooling the part of the house that is
      > occupied is huge!
      >
      > The part about the HOA is really disappointing, and continues to be
      > disappointing. For the life of me I can not understand why people wouldn't
      > want them in the neighborhood. This is something I think we can all work on.
      >
      > One question I have is about air filtration. Everyone knows how it gets
      > filtered in a central air system. Is it just ignored in a split system, or
      > part of the per-room unit? Is is an issue at all? I use washable filters to
      > reduce waste, is something like that available?
      >
      > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. <mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Kevin Conlin"
      > <kevin@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I thought I would summarize the tour for those who couldn't make it.
      > >
      > > Milton and his wife Pat were very gracious hosting about 40 people. The
      > > indoor unit was very quiet and even featured emergency lights for power
      > > outages that run off the battery bank. It uses a convenient wireless
      > remote
      > > rather than a conventional thermostat
      > >
      > > The outdoor unit was also extremely quiet, you could talk in a normal tone
      > > of voice even while standing right next to it. It seemed very large for a
      > > 1.5 ton condenser, so I'm guessing one way they make it so efficient is
      > with
      > > a larger than normal heat exchanger. The fan was whisper quiet. The system
      > > does have provisions for 120VAC input, using the grid for backup gets you
      > > the best of both worlds.
      > >
      > > Milton's approach is too leave the 120VAC unplugged, as his intention is
      > to
      > > use every bit of solar for cooling. He sees the system as a long term
      > hedge
      > > against rising utility costs, ignoring what might be calculated as
      > payback.
      > > He enjoys the satisfaction of offsetting his utility bill with his solar
      > > system, and hopes to expand it in the future by adding another 1.5 ton
      > unit.
      > > It should be noted that the complete system does qualify for the 30%
      > federal
      > > tax credit, although in his case he had to "educate" the IRS a bit. (Good
      > > thing he was a former teacher)
      > >
      > > The real beauty of the system is you only cool the portion of your house
      > > that is occupied, especially effective at night. This strategy alone
      > offers
      > > utility savings.
      > >
      > > Four Sanyo 200W modules were mounted on a sturdy rack along the back
      > fence,
      > > as their home faces South and the HOA will not allow solar panels. Conduit
      > > was run underground and was very clean, additional conduit for possible
      > > future expansion was also installed, showing good forethought.
      > >
      > > The modules are very high efficiency, they feature an amorphous silicon
      > > coating which raises their efficiency several points. They are preferred
      > > where space is at a premium and maximum power density is needed.
      > >
      > > Milton is using an Outback MPPT controller, or Maximum Power Point
      > Tracking,
      > > which is a very good way to use higher voltage modules to charge a battery
      > > bank. It is essentially a very efficient DC/DC converter which constantly
      > > optimizes battery charging to get the most out of the solar array. Again,
      > > there is also plenty of room for expansion, and the digital display gives
      > > system status at a glance.
      > >
      > > Batteries are the old favorite, Trojan T-105's , 6V, 220Ah golf cart
      > > batteries, which are the best battery you can get for the buck. They will
      > > outlast gel batteries and cost half as much. They were safely installed in
      > a
      > > ventilated Rubbermaid storage bin with a temperature controlled fan.
      > >
      > > Overall the system was well done and safe.
      > >
      > > The thing that impressed me the most is because of the relatively low
      > power
      > > draw and DC operation, this is the first AC unit I have seen that is
      > > suitable for use with a battery based backup system. In the event of a
      > > hurricane or extended power outage, a portion of your home will have air
      > > conditioning. It would also be perfect for a small off grid cabin or beach
      > > house.
      > >
      > > The unit seemed to be well built and well thought out. With quiet
      > > operation, no duct work and super high efficiency, it seems like a good
      > > product whose time has come. This coming from a curmudgeon!
      > >
      > > The tour was followed by a friendly happy hour at Las Rosas Mexican
      > > Restaurant, where topics from Permaculture to Driver Ed were discussed. A
      > > good time was had by all.
      > >
      > > Thank you both Milton and Pat for opening your home and sharing your
      > > knowledge with us!
      > >
      > >
      > > Kevin Conlin
      > > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      > > 13534 Quetzal Lane
      > > Houston, TX 77083
      > > C: (281) 202-9629
      > > H: (281) 530-7501
      > > F: (281) 530-7501
      > > kevin@
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.97/2370 - Release Date: 09/14/09
      > 11:36:00
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.97/2370 - Release Date: 09/14/09
      > 11:36:00
      >
    • Kevin Conlin
      Jay, I ve only seen AC units, and you re right, the extra conversion costs efficiency. I think the Sol Cool is probably your best bet for DC, but I understand
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 14, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Jay, I've only seen AC units, and you're right, the extra conversion costs efficiency. I think the Sol Cool is probably your best bet for DC, but I understand they are not yet in full production. I believe Milton said end of the year.
         
        As efficient as they are, I'm not sure you'd gain a whole lot with geosource, might be a longer payback than the extra solar power you'd need without it.
         
        The Sol Cool 18,000 BTU has a COP of 5.5, consumes 1000W average.
         
        Interesting question, anyone care to crunch the numbers? 
         
        Kevin Conlin
        Heliosolar Design, Inc.
        13534 Quetzal Lane
        Houston, TX 77083
        C:  (281) 202-9629
        H:  (281) 530-7501
        F:  (281) 530-7501
         
         
         


        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jay.ring@...
        Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:28 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] Re: HREG Solar Air Conditioning Tour Recap

         

        I know Sanyo and LG make models too, but I can't tell if they are different or just rebrands. I would love some sort of break down.

        Next up someone needs to design one of these crossed with a ground source heat pump :)

        Is the Mr Slim DC powered, or AC only? I am not against AC powered, there is a lot of convenience there for code compliance, but for solar, the whole DC to AC to DC and then back to AC seems a little much...

        There is another good push we could all work on - update the N.E.C. to be DC friendlier!

        --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "Kevin Conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:

        >
        > My contractor just finished
        installing a two zone heat pump Mr. Slim in our
        > community clubhouse, and
        the only way you can tell if they're on is by the
        > LED's. The indoor
        units are 3 speed, which is a nice feature, but even on
        > high, the
        ceiling fans make more noise. Even the outdoor unit is barely
        >
        audible.
        >
        > Kevin Conlin
        > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
        >
        13534 Quetzal Lane
        > Houston, TX 77083
        > C: (281) 202-9629
        >
        H: (281) 530-7501
        > F: (281) 530-7501
        > kevin@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From:
        href="mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Susan
        > Silvano
        > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:46 PM
        >
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        > Cc:
        Susan Silvano
        > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: HREG Solar Air Conditioning Tour
        Recap
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Although my company is
        headquartered in Houston, we live in St. Thomas in
        > the U.S. Virgin
        Islands. We have built our home there, and have installed
        > five Mr.
        Slim's in our home, two in the apartment under our house and one
        > in the
        pool cabana. The first was installed about three years ago. We have
        > not
        had a minute's trouble with any of the units and they work great. We
        > got
        federal and territory rebates on each of the units. The filters are
        >
        easily removed and we wash them about once a quarter. I highly recommend
        >
        going in this direction vs. a ducted system - much cheaper and more
        >
        efficient as we very rarely turn on all the units.
        >
        >
        >
        Now, all we have to do is figure out how to get them to work using solar.
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Susan
        >
        > Susan Silvano
        > President
        > Career Management
        International, Inc.
        > 713-623-8780 Corporate Office
        > 713-252-0924
        Cell
        >
        > CMI. Supporting the business of people.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sep 14, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Kevin Conlin
        wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Jay, Good question, no one
        asked about the filter, but I'm guessing it
        > does have a washable one
        inside the unit.
        >
        > I agree, between no duct work, selective
        cooling and high efficiency, I too
        > believe they are the next wave.
        Problem is finding anyone willing to learn
        > the technology. It took me 3
        months to find a cooperative ac contractor as
        > we just installed a 2 zone
        Mitsubishi Mr.. Slim on our community clubhouse.
        > Every one tried to talk
        me into ductwork.
        >
        > Since solar panels are not specifically
        excluded in deed restrictions, it
        > might be worth educating the
        architectural committee on your homeowners BOD.
        > Traditionally the courts
        have ruled in favor of the homeowners when solar is
        > challenged, but most
        people don't want that fight.
        >
        > Best Regards, Kevin
        >
        > Kevin Conlin
        > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
        > 13534 Quetzal
        Lane
        > Houston, TX 77083
        > C: (281) 202-9629
        > H: (281)
        530-7501
        > F: (281) 530-7501
        > kevin@heliosolardes
        <mailto:kevin@ ...> ign.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From:
        href="mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
        > jay.ring@...
        > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:01
        AM
        > To:
        href="mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com
        >
        Subject: [hreg] Re: HREG Solar Air Conditioning Tour Recap
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > That was a great summery, very detailed. Thanks
        Kevin!
        >
        > I was planning on going, I was very disappointed to miss
        it.
        >
        > These split systems seem to be the way forward, at least
        for the energy/cost
        > conscious crowd. The part about only cooling the
        part of the house that is
        > occupied is huge!
        >
        > The part
        about the HOA is really disappointing, and continues to be
        >
        disappointing. For the life of me I can not understand why people wouldn't
        > want them in the neighborhood. This is something I think we can
        all work on.
        >
        > One question I have is about air filtration.
        Everyone knows how it gets
        > filtered in a central air system. Is it just
        ignored in a split system, or
        > part of the per-room unit? Is is an issue
        at all? I use washable filters to
        > reduce waste, is something like that
        available?
        >
        > --- In hreg@yahoogroups.
        <mailto:hreg% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Kevin Conlin"
        >
        <kevin@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I thought I would summarize the
        tour for those who couldn't make it.
        > >
        > > Milton and his
        wife Pat were very gracious hosting about 40 people. The
        > > indoor
        unit was very quiet and even featured emergency lights for power
        > >
        outages that run off the battery bank. It uses a convenient wireless
        >
        remote
        > > rather than a conventional thermostat
        > >
        > > The outdoor unit was also extremely quiet, you could talk in a normal
        tone
        > > of voice even while standing right next to it. It seemed very
        large for a
        > > 1.5 ton condenser, so I'm guessing one way they make it
        so efficient is
        > with
        > > a larger than normal heat exchanger.
        The fan was whisper quiet. The system
        > > does have provisions for
        120VAC input, using the grid for backup gets you
        > > the best of both
        worlds.
        > >
        > > Milton's approach is too leave the 120VAC
        unplugged, as his intention is
        > to
        > > use every bit of solar
        for cooling. He sees the system as a long term
        > hedge
        > >
        against rising utility costs, ignoring what might be calculated as
        >
        payback.
        > > He enjoys the satisfaction of offsetting his utility bill
        with his solar
        > > system, and hopes to expand it in the future by
        adding another 1.5 ton
        > unit.
        > > It should be noted that the
        complete system does qualify for the 30%
        > federal
        > > tax
        credit, although in his case he had to "educate" the IRS a bit. (Good
        > > thing he was a former teacher)
        > >
        > > The real beauty
        of the system is you only cool the portion of your house
        > > that is
        occupied, especially effective at night. This strategy alone
        >
        offers
        > > utility savings.
        > >
        > > Four Sanyo 200W
        modules were mounted on a sturdy rack along the back
        > fence,
        > >
        as their home faces South and the HOA will not allow solar panels. Conduit
        > > was run underground and was very clean, additional conduit
        for possible
        > > future expansion was also installed, showing good
        forethought.
        > >
        > > The modules are very high efficiency,
        they feature an amorphous silicon
        > > coating which raises their
        efficiency several points. They are preferred
        > > where space is at a
        premium and maximum power density is needed.
        > >
        > > Milton
        is using an Outback MPPT controller, or Maximum Power Point
        >
        Tracking,
        > > which is a very good way to use higher voltage modules to
        charge a battery
        > > bank. It is essentially a very efficient DC/DC
        converter which constantly
        > > optimizes battery charging to get the
        most out of the solar array. Again,
        > > there is also plenty of room
        for expansion, and the digital display gives
        > > system status at a
        glance.
        > >
        > > Batteries are the old favorite, Trojan
        T-105's , 6V, 220Ah golf cart
        > > batteries, which are the best battery
        you can get for the buck. They will
        > > outlast gel batteries and cost
        half as much. They were safely installed in
        > a
        > > ventilated
        Rubbermaid storage bin with a temperature controlled fan.
        > >
        > > Overall the system was well done and safe.
        > >
        > > The
        thing that impressed me the most is because of the relatively low
        >
        power
        > > draw and DC operation, this is the first AC unit I have seen
        that is
        > > suitable for use with a battery based backup system. In the
        event of a
        > > hurricane or extended power outage, a portion of your
        home will have air
        > > conditioning. It would also be perfect for a
        small off grid cabin or beach
        > > house.
        > >
        > > The
        unit seemed to be well built and well thought out. With quiet
        > >
        operation, no duct work and super high efficiency, it seems like a good
        > > product whose time has come. This coming from a curmudgeon!
        > >
        > > The tour was followed by a friendly happy hour at Las Rosas
        Mexican
        > > Restaurant, where topics from Permaculture to Driver Ed
        were discussed. A
        > > good time was had by all.
        > >
        > > Thank you both Milton and Pat for opening your home and sharing
        your
        > > knowledge with us!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        Kevin Conlin
        > > Heliosolar Design, Inc.
        > > 13534 Quetzal
        Lane
        > > Houston, TX 77083
        > > C: (281) 202-9629
        > >
        H: (281) 530-7501
        > > F: (281) 530-7501
        > > kevin@
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        >
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database:
        270.13.97/2370 - Release Date: 09/14/09
        > 11:36:00
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming
        message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus
        Database: 270.13.97/2370 - Release Date: 09/14/09
        >
        11:36:00
        >

        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.98/2371 - Release Date: 09/14/09 17:52:00

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