Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Ceramic Titanium

Expand Messages
  • Tai-Lin Hong
    Can anyone help me on the following questions: What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on Aluminum surface to make the heat transfer
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 26, 2009
      Can anyone help me on the following questions:
      What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on Aluminum surface
      to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
    • jay.ring@ymail.com
      Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma deposition. They
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 26, 2009
        Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma deposition. They are all the same process.




        --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@...> wrote:
        >
        > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
        > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on Aluminum surface
        > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
        >
      • Tai-Lin Hong
        Thanks a lot, Jay. Is this method considered as an Nano technology ? Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is also the most
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 26, 2009
          Thanks a lot, Jay.

          Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?

          Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and temperature ?

          I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?

          --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...> wrote:

          From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
          Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM

           

          Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma deposition. They are all the same process.

          --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
          > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on Aluminum surface
          > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
          >

        • Gary Beck
          The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not economical . It
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 27, 2009

            The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not "economical". It requires specialized machinery and was done at extreme high temperatures* on metal surfaces that can survive the process.  

             

            This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers, shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.

             

            Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of such specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied under ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not small but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or macro quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms over a macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar proposition.

             

            Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP

            Eco-Holdings Engineering Services

            4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114

            Houston, Texas 77025

            Tel: 713-377-4209  Fax: 832-201-5338

             

            SECB certified in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural inspector for the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP program, and a listed Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance Wind Storm program. Eco provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection Services for Residential, Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial and Government Facilities. Eco's design engineering services include AutoCAD based construction documents for permitting and building foundations, structures, storm water systems, and detention ponds; and Autodesk Revit based 3D Building Information Modeling for green building practices.

             

            * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes referred to as being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if only a small fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized (but other definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are common). Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still typically several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in "plasma technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this sense."

             

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tai-Lin Hong
            Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

             

             

            Thanks a lot, Jay.

            Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?

            Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and temperature ?

            I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?

            --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...> wrote:


            From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
            Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM

             

            Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma deposition. They are all the same process.

            --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@.. .> wrote:

            >
            > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
            > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
            Aluminum surface
            > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
            >

          • jay.ring@ymail.com
            I suppose economical depends on your point of reference. Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 28, 2009
              I suppose economical depends on your point of reference.

              Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor deposition methods (CVD and PVD).

              Plasma coating is definitely not the most effective method, CVD and PVD are much higher quality coatings. They just cost a lot more than plasma. Sometimes you need the higher quality and are willing to pay for it. Other times plasma is good enough.

              I think plasma coating is pretty effective at temperature, corrosion and thermal insulation and electrical insulation. It has lots of applications.

              Keep in mind that while the plasma is very high temperature the part being coated will usually "only" be 200-400 degrees. That is what it is: too hot for some things, not too hot for other things.

              I am not really familiar with this embedding process you mentioned. I have heard of it being used as a filler in a composite like epoxy or plastic. Maybe Gary knows more about it?

              Good luck!








              --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Beck" <eco@...> wrote:
              >
              > The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all
              > temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not
              > "economical". It requires specialized machinery and was done at extreme
              > high temperatures* on metal surfaces that can survive the process.
              >
              >
              >
              > This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique
              > use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers,
              > shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute
              > but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or
              > eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.
              >
              >
              >
              > Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of such
              > specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied under
              > ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not small
              > but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or macro
              > quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms over a
              > macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar proposition.
              >
              >
              >
              > Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP
              >
              > Eco-Holdings Engineering Services
              >
              > 4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114
              >
              > Houston, Texas 77025
              >
              > Tel: 713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338
              >
              >
              >
              > SECB certified in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural
              > inspector for the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP
              > program, and a listed Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance
              > Wind Storm program. Eco provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection
              > Services for Residential, Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial
              > and Government Facilities. Eco's design engineering services include
              > AutoCAD based construction documents for permitting and building
              > foundations, structures, storm water systems, and detention ponds; and
              > Autodesk Revit based 3D Building Information Modeling for green building
              > practices.
              >
              >
              >
              > * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes referred to as
              > being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if only a small
              > fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized (but other
              > definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are common).
              > Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still typically
              > several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in "plasma
              > technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this sense."
              >
              >
              >
              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Tai-Lin Hong
              > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks a lot, Jay.
              >
              > Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?
              >
              > Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is
              > also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and
              > temperature ?
              >
              > I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method
              > compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?
              >
              > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
              > Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
              >
              >
              >
              > Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of
              > depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma
              > deposition. They are all the same process.
              >
              > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@ .> wrote:
              > >
              > > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
              > > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
              > Aluminum surface
              > > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
              > >
              >
            • Tai-Lin Hong
              Jay and Gary, I appreciate the valuable and educational informations that you shared with us. I heard the term embedding from TitanWareUSA, a manufacturer of
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 28, 2009

                Jay and Gary, I appreciate the valuable and educational informations that you shared with us.

                I heard the term "embedding" from TitanWareUSA, a manufacturer of cookwares,
                who claims their "embedding method" is superior to other's "spraying method".
                The wording seems to imply the penetration is deeper and firmer than just surface coating.and I never be able to get any further details.


                --- On Tue, 7/28/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...> wrote:

                From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 9:09 AM

                 

                I suppose economical depends on your point of reference.

                Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor deposition methods (CVD and PVD).

                Plasma coating is definitely not the most effective method, CVD and PVD are much higher quality coatings. They just cost a lot more than plasma. Sometimes you need the higher quality and are willing to pay for it. Other times plasma is good enough.

                I think plasma coating is pretty effective at temperature, corrosion and thermal insulation and electrical insulation. It has lots of applications.

                Keep in mind that while the plasma is very high temperature the part being coated will usually "only" be 200-400 degrees. That is what it is: too hot for some things, not too hot for other things.

                I am not really familiar with this embedding process you mentioned. I have heard of it being used as a filler in a composite like epoxy or plastic. Maybe Gary knows more about it?

                Good luck!

                --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "Gary Beck" <eco@...> wrote:
                >
                > The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all
                > temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not
                > "economical" . It requires specialized machinery and was done at extreme
                > high temperatures* on metal surfaces that can survive the process.
                >
                >
                >
                > This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique
                > use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers,
                > shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute
                > but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or
                > eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.
                >
                >
                >
                > Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of such
                > specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied under
                > ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not small
                > but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or macro
                > quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms over a
                > macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar proposition.
                >
                >
                >
                > Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP
                >
                > Eco-Holdings Engineering Services
                >
                > 4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114
                >
                > Houston, Texas 77025
                >
                > Tel: 713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338
                >
                >
                >
                > SECB certified in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural
                > inspector for the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP
                > program, and a listed Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance
                > Wind Storm program. Eco provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection
                > Services for Residential, Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial
                > and Government Facilities. Eco's design engineering services include
                > AutoCAD based construction documents for permitting and building
                > foundations, structures, storm water systems, and detention ponds; and
                > Autodesk Revit based 3D Building Information Modeling for green building
                > practices.
                >
                >
                >
                > * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes referred to as
                > being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if only a small
                > fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized (but other
                > definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are common).
                > Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still typically
                > several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in "plasma
                > technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this sense."
                >
                >
                >
                > From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                > Tai-Lin Hong
                > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks a lot, Jay.
                >
                > Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?
                >
                > Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is
                > also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and
                > temperature ?
                >
                > I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method
                > compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?
                >
                > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                > Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
                >
                >
                >
                > Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of
                > depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma
                > deposition. They are all the same process.
                >
                > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@ .> wrote:
                > >
                > > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
                > > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
                > Aluminum surface
                > > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
                > >
                >

              • James McKethen
                I guess the real question is whether ceramic is the most effective way to transfer the heat you need to transfer. _____ From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 28, 2009
                  I guess the real question is whether ceramic is the most effective way to transfer the heat you need to transfer. 

                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jay.ring@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:09 AM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

                   

                  I suppose economical depends on your point of reference.

                  Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor deposition methods (CVD and PVD).

                  Plasma coating is definitely not the most effective method, CVD and PVD are much higher quality coatings. They just cost a lot more than plasma. Sometimes you need the higher quality and are willing to pay for it. Other times plasma is good enough.

                  I think plasma coating is pretty effective at temperature, corrosion and thermal insulation and electrical insulation. It has lots of applications.

                  Keep in mind that while the plasma is very high temperature the part being coated will usually "only" be 200-400 degrees. That is what it is: too hot for some things, not too hot for other things.

                  I am not really familiar with this embedding process you mentioned. I have heard of it being used as a filler in a composite like epoxy or plastic. Maybe Gary knows more about it?

                  Good luck!

                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "Gary Beck" <eco@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > The term plasma is associated with
                  ionization which can occur at all
                  > temperatures. But the only commercial
                  plasma coating I have seen is not
                  > "economical" . It requires
                  specialized machinery and was done at extreme
                  > high temperatures* on
                  metal surfaces that can survive the process.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique
                  >
                  use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers,
                  >
                  shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute
                  >
                  but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or
                  >
                  eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of
                  such
                  > specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied
                  under
                  > ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not
                  small
                  > but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or
                  macro
                  > quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms
                  over a
                  > macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar
                  proposition.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED
                  AP
                  >
                  > Eco-Holdings Engineering Services
                  >
                  > 4010 Blue
                  Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114
                  >
                  > Houston, Texas 77025
                  >
                  > Tel:
                  713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SECB certified
                  in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural
                  > inspector for
                  the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP
                  > program, and a listed
                  Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance
                  > Wind Storm program. Eco
                  provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection
                  > Services for Residential,
                  Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial
                  > and Government Facilities.
                  Eco's design engineering services include
                  > AutoCAD based construction
                  documents for permitting and building
                  > foundations, structures, storm
                  water systems, and detention ponds; and
                  > Autodesk Revit based 3D Building
                  Information Modeling for green building
                  > practices.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes
                  referred to as
                  > being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if
                  only a small
                  > fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized
                  (but other
                  > definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are
                  common).
                  > Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still
                  typically
                  > several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in
                  "plasma
                  > technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this
                  sense."
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From:
                  href="mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                  > Tai-Lin Hong
                  > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
                  > To:
                  hreg@yahoogroups. com
                  >
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks a lot, Jay.
                  >
                  > Is this method considered
                  as an "Nano technology"?
                  >
                  > Besides being most common and
                  economical, do you think this method is
                  > also the most effective for the
                  surface being able to resist erosion and
                  > temperature ?
                  >
                  >
                  I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method
                  >
                  compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?
                  >
                  >
                  --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                  > Subject: [hreg]
                  Re: Ceramic Titanium
                  > To:
                  href="mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com
                  > Date:
                  Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Plasma
                  spraying is probably the most common and economical method of
                  > depositing
                  ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma
                  > deposition.
                  They are all the same process.
                  >
                  > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com,
                  Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@ .> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Can anyone
                  help me on the following questions:
                  > > What is the commonly practiced
                  process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
                  > Aluminum surface
                  > > to
                  make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
                  > >
                  >

                • Tai-Lin Hong
                  The purpose is to form a surface which can evenly distribute heat. ... From: James McKethen Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium To:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 28, 2009
                    The purpose is to form a surface which can evenly distribute heat.

                    --- On Tue, 7/28/09, James McKethen <james@...> wrote:

                    From: James McKethen <james@...>
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 11:56 AM

                     

                    I guess the real question is whether ceramic is the most effective way to transfer the heat you need to transfer. 


                    From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jay.ring@ymail. com
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:09 AM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

                     

                    I suppose economical depends on your point of reference.

                    Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor deposition methods (CVD and PVD).

                    Plasma coating is definitely not the most effective method, CVD and PVD are much higher quality coatings. They just cost a lot more than plasma. Sometimes you need the higher quality and are willing to pay for it. Other times plasma is good enough.

                    I think plasma coating is pretty effective at temperature, corrosion and thermal insulation and electrical insulation. It has lots of applications.

                    Keep in mind that while the plasma is very high temperature the part being coated will usually "only" be 200-400 degrees. That is what it is: too hot for some things, not too hot for other things.

                    I am not really familiar with this embedding process you mentioned. I have heard of it being used as a filler in a composite like epoxy or plastic. Maybe Gary knows more about it?

                    Good luck!

                    --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "Gary Beck" <eco@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all
                    > temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not
                    > "economical" . It requires specialized machinery and was done at extreme
                    > high temperatures* on metal surfaces that can survive the process.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique
                    > use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers,
                    > shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute
                    > but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or
                    > eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of such
                    > specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied under
                    > ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not small
                    > but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or macro
                    > quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms over a
                    > macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar proposition.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP
                    >
                    > Eco-Holdings Engineering Services
                    >
                    > 4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114
                    >
                    > Houston, Texas 77025
                    >
                    > Tel: 713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SECB certified in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural
                    > inspector for the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP
                    > program, and a listed Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance
                    > Wind Storm program. Eco provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection
                    > Services for Residential, Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial
                    > and Government Facilities. Eco's design engineering services include
                    > AutoCAD based construction documents for permitting and building
                    > foundations, structures, storm water systems, and detention ponds; and
                    > Autodesk Revit based 3D Building Information Modeling for green building
                    > practices.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes referred to as
                    > being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if only a small
                    > fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized (but other
                    > definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are common).
                    > Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still typically
                    > several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in "plasma
                    > technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this sense."
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                    > Tai-Lin Hong
                    > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                    > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks a lot, Jay.
                    >
                    > Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?
                    >
                    > Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is
                    > also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and
                    > temperature ?
                    >
                    > I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method
                    > compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?
                    >
                    > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                    > Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of
                    > depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma
                    > deposition. They are all the same process.
                    >
                    > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@ .> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
                    > > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
                    > Aluminum surface
                    > > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
                    > >
                    >

                  • Ed Sarlls
                    Back to your original request - I think that you want something that will transfer heat evenly to aluminum. Check
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 28, 2009
                      Back to your original request - I think that you want something that will transfer heat evenly to aluminum.
                       
                      Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity there is a thermal conductivity table.
                       
                      Gold, copper, silver, and diamond have better (greater) thermal conductivity than aluminum. If you look at cooking pans you will find that some of them have copper bottoms. I don't see titanium or ceramic on the list but I believe that these are both poor conductors. The Space Shuttle tiles SiO2 and are very low conductivity to limit heat transfer to the structure.
                       
                      Another table with more properties is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities .  This has a listing for titanium nitride which may be close to the ceramic titanium in your original question. It has about half of the thermal conductivity of copper.
                       
                       
                       
                      It looks like the titanium is used more for its scratch resistance and non-stick properties rather than high thermal conductivity. If you put it on the food side of the pan then ti may product a more even heat in contact with the food because it provides some insulation ( relative to the aluminum).
                       
                      I guess that a good system would be copper on the bottom of the aluminum pan and titanium nitride on the inside since Teflon is out of favor.
                       
                      The cheapest is probably a heavy cast iron pan. :-)
                       
                      Ed Sarlls
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:11 PM
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

                       

                      The purpose is to form a surface which can evenly distribute heat.

                      --- On Tue, 7/28/09, James McKethen <james@mckethen. com> wrote:

                      From: James McKethen <james@mckethen. com>
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                      Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 11:56 AM

                       

                      I guess the real question is whether ceramic is the most effective way to transfer the heat you need to transfer. 


                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jay.ring@ymail. com
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:09 AM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

                       

                      I suppose economical depends on your point of reference.

                      Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor deposition methods (CVD and PVD).

                      Plasma coating is definitely not the most effective method, CVD and PVD are much higher quality coatings. They just cost a lot more than plasma. Sometimes you need the higher quality and are willing to pay for it. Other times plasma is good enough.

                      I think plasma coating is pretty effective at temperature, corrosion and thermal insulation and electrical insulation. It has lots of applications.

                      Keep in mind that while the plasma is very high temperature the part being coated will usually "only" be 200-400 degrees. That is what it is: too hot for some things, not too hot for other things.

                      I am not really familiar with this embedding process you mentioned. I have heard of it being used as a filler in a composite like epoxy or plastic. Maybe Gary knows more about it?

                      Good luck!

                      --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "Gary Beck" <eco@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all
                      > temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not
                      > "economical" . It requires specialized machinery and was done at extreme
                      > high temperatures* on metal surfaces that can survive the process.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique
                      > use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers,
                      > shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute
                      > but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or
                      > eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of such
                      > specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied under
                      > ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not small
                      > but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or macro
                      > quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms over a
                      > macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar proposition.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP
                      >
                      > Eco-Holdings Engineering Services
                      >
                      > 4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114
                      >
                      > Houston, Texas 77025
                      >
                      > Tel: 713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > SECB certified in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural
                      > inspector for the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP
                      > program, and a listed Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance
                      > Wind Storm program. Eco provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection
                      > Services for Residential, Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial
                      > and Government Facilities. Eco's design engineering services include
                      > AutoCAD based construction documents for permitting and building
                      > foundations, structures, storm water systems, and detention ponds; and
                      > Autodesk Revit based 3D Building Information Modeling for green building
                      > practices.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes referred to as
                      > being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if only a small
                      > fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized (but other
                      > definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are common).
                      > Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still typically
                      > several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in "plasma
                      > technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this sense."
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                      > Tai-Lin Hong
                      > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
                      > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks a lot, Jay.
                      >
                      > Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?
                      >
                      > Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is
                      > also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and
                      > temperature ?
                      >
                      > I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method
                      > compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?
                      >
                      > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                      > Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                      > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of
                      > depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma
                      > deposition. They are all the same process.
                      >
                      > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@ .> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
                      > > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
                      > Aluminum surface
                      > > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
                      > >
                      >

                    • Tai-Lin Hong
                      Ed,   Thanks for your comment and the references.     The reason that Teflon becomes out of favor is because it is a health hazard, which   should not been
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 28, 2009
                        Ed,

                          Thanks for your comment and the references.
                         
                          The reason that Teflon becomes out of favor is because it is a health hazard, which
                          should not been allowed to be applied on cookwares at the first place.
                          According to what I have heard, ceramic titanium coating is safe. Let's just hope it
                          is true this time.

                          I noticed that HREG has many knowlegeable members sensible to health, enviroment and social issues, which are closely associated with the idea of renewing resources, by sharing the concept about what we want our world to be.


                        --- On Tue, 7/28/09, Ed Sarlls <edsarlls@...> wrote:

                        From: Ed Sarlls <edsarlls@...>
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 2:29 PM

                         

                        Back to your original request - I think that you want something that will transfer heat evenly to aluminum.
                         
                        Check http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Thermal_conducti vity there is a thermal conductivity table.
                         
                        Gold, copper, silver, and diamond have better (greater) thermal conductivity than aluminum. If you look at cooking pans you will find that some of them have copper bottoms. I don't see titanium or ceramic on the list but I believe that these are both poor conductors. The Space Shuttle tiles SiO2 and are very low conductivity to limit heat transfer to the structure.
                         
                        Another table with more properties is http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ List_of_thermal_ conductivities .  This has a listing for titanium nitride which may be close to the ceramic titanium in your original question. It has about half of the thermal conductivity of copper.
                         
                         
                         
                        It looks like the titanium is used more for its scratch resistance and non-stick properties rather than high thermal conductivity. If you put it on the food side of the pan then ti may product a more even heat in contact with the food because it provides some insulation ( relative to the aluminum).
                         
                        I guess that a good system would be copper on the bottom of the aluminum pan and titanium nitride on the inside since Teflon is out of favor.
                         
                        The cheapest is probably a heavy cast iron pan. :-)
                         
                        Ed Sarlls
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:11 PM
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

                         

                        The purpose is to form a surface which can evenly distribute heat.

                        --- On Tue, 7/28/09, James McKethen <james@mckethen. com> wrote:

                        From: James McKethen <james@mckethen. com>
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 11:56 AM

                         

                        I guess the real question is whether ceramic is the most effective way to transfer the heat you need to transfer. 


                        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jay.ring@ymail. com
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:09 AM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium

                         

                        I suppose economical depends on your point of reference.

                        Plasma spraying is cheaper than the other methods of depositing ceramic, for example the vapor deposition methods (CVD and PVD).

                        Plasma coating is definitely not the most effective method, CVD and PVD are much higher quality coatings. They just cost a lot more than plasma. Sometimes you need the higher quality and are willing to pay for it. Other times plasma is good enough.

                        I think plasma coating is pretty effective at temperature, corrosion and thermal insulation and electrical insulation. It has lots of applications.

                        Keep in mind that while the plasma is very high temperature the part being coated will usually "only" be 200-400 degrees. That is what it is: too hot for some things, not too hot for other things.

                        I am not really familiar with this embedding process you mentioned. I have heard of it being used as a filler in a composite like epoxy or plastic. Maybe Gary knows more about it?

                        Good luck!

                        --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "Gary Beck" <eco@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The term plasma is associated with ionization which can occur at all
                        > temperatures. But the only commercial plasma coating I have seen is not
                        > "economical" . It requires specialized machinery and was done at extreme
                        > high temperatures* on metal surfaces that can survive the process.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This was and is a common aftermarket repair or special service technique
                        > use on rotating machinery like turbine blades, compressor impellers,
                        > shaft under bearing surfaces. The primary purpose is to deposit minute
                        > but well bonded thicknesses of special alloy metals onto a wearing or
                        > eroding surface that may or may not be further machined.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Nano technology would appear to be a perfect application of such
                        > specialized 'performance' type coatings, though maybe not applied under
                        > ionized or plasma conditions. The problem with nano is scale, not small
                        > but big, meaning the cost to produce nano materials in bulk or macro
                        > quantities to allow coatings of more than a few layers of atoms over a
                        > macro/human scale surface would appear a high dollar proposition.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP
                        >
                        > Eco-Holdings Engineering Services
                        >
                        > 4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Ste 114
                        >
                        > Houston, Texas 77025
                        >
                        > Tel: 713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > SECB certified in the Practice of Structural Engineering, a structural
                        > inspector for the Texas Residential Construction Commission SIRP
                        > program, and a listed Engineer for the Texas Department of Insurance
                        > Wind Storm program. Eco provides Engineering and Engineer's Inspection
                        > Services for Residential, Commercial, Lodging, Educational, Industrial
                        > and Government Facilities. Eco's design engineering services include
                        > AutoCAD based construction documents for permitting and building
                        > foundations, structures, storm water systems, and detention ponds; and
                        > Autodesk Revit based 3D Building Information Modeling for green building
                        > practices.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > * Isn't wikipedia just great? - "A plasma is sometimes referred to as
                        > being "hot" if it is nearly fully ionized, or "cold" if only a small
                        > fraction (for example 1%) of the gas molecules are ionized (but other
                        > definitions of the terms "hot plasma" and "cold plasma" are common).
                        > Even in a "cold" plasma the electron temperature is still typically
                        > several thousand degrees Celsius. Plasmas utilized in "plasma
                        > technology" ("technological plasmas") are usually cold in this sense."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                        > Tai-Lin Hong
                        > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:30 PM
                        > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                        > Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks a lot, Jay.
                        >
                        > Is this method considered as an "Nano technology"?
                        >
                        > Besides being most common and economical, do you think this method is
                        > also the most effective for the surface being able to resist erosion and
                        > temperature ?
                        >
                        > I have also heard a method called "embedding". How is that method
                        > compare with "Spraying" in terms of effectiveness and cost ?
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: jay.ring@... <txses@...>
                        > Subject: [hreg] Re: Ceramic Titanium
                        > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                        > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 1:12 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Plasma spraying is probably the most common and economical method of
                        > depositing ceramics. It is sometimes called plasma coating or plasma
                        > deposition. They are all the same process.
                        >
                        > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@ .> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Can anyone help me on the following questions:
                        > > What is the commonly practiced process of coating Ceramic Titanium on
                        > Aluminum surface
                        > > to make the heat transfer evenly distributed?
                        > >
                        >

                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.