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Re: Solar for Texas !

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  • jay.ring@ymail.com
    How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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      How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?



      --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
      >  
      > http://www.kvue.com/projectgreen/greenarticles/stories/030609kvue_renewable-energy_bill-cb.bbd8cc8.html
      >
      >  
      >
      >  
      > Jim Hudson
      > Attic Breeze
      > jim.hudson@...
      > www.atticbreeze.net
      > (281) 904-5281 Direct
      > (281) 324-1669 Fax
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >
    • Benjamin C. Burke
      The debt stays with the property, not with the person. This proposal is similar to financing used in Berkeley, Ca. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 12, 2009, at 8:33
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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        The debt stays with the property, not with the person. This proposal is similar to financing used in Berkeley, Ca.

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Mar 12, 2009, at 8:33 AM, "jay.ring@..." <txses@...> wrote:


        How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

        --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@ ...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
        >  
        > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
        >
        >  
        >
        >  
        > Jim Hudson
        > Attic Breeze
        > jim.hudson@. ..
        > www.atticbreeze. net
        > (281) 904-5281 Direct
        > (281) 324-1669 Fax
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >

      • Jim & Janet
        You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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          You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.
          The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
          It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
          This is legislation that should be supported.
          Jim Duncan
          North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
          817.917.057
          ntrei@...

           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
          Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !


          How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

          --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@ ...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
          >  
          > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
          >
          >  
          >
          >  
          > Jim Hudson
          > Attic Breeze
          > jim.hudson@. ..
          > www.atticbreeze. net
          > (281) 904-5281 Direct
          > (281) 324-1669 Fax
          >  
          >  
          >  
          >  
          >  
          >  
          >

        • Stephanie Edwards-Musa
          What about property appraisals? If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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            What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

            (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)



            On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@...> wrote:

            You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.
            The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
            It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
            This is legislation that should be supported.
            Jim Duncan
            North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
            817.917.057
            ntrei@...

             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !


            How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
            >  
            > http://www.kvue.com/projectgreen/greenarticles/stories/030609kvue_renewable-energy_bill-cb.bbd8cc8.html
            >
            >  
            >
            >  
            > Jim Hudson
            > Attic Breeze
            > jim.hudson@...
            > www.atticbreeze.net
            > (281) 904-5281 Direct
            > (281) 324-1669 Fax
            >  
            >  
            >  
            >  
            >  
            >  
            >




            --
            Stephanie Edwards-Musa
            Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
            Mobile:  281-635-9444
            Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
            www.TurningHoustonGreen.com
            Steph@...
          • Jim & Janet
            About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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              About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.
              Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.
               
              Jim Duncan
              North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
              817.917.057
              ntrei@...
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

              What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

              (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)



              On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:

              You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.
              The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
              It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
              This is legislation that should be supported.
              Jim Duncan
              North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
              817.917.057
              ntrei@earthlink. net

               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
              Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !


              How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

              --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
              >  
              > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
              >
              >  
              >
              >  
              > Jim Hudson
              > Attic Breeze
              > jim.hudson@. ..
              > www.atticbreeze. net
              > (281) 904-5281 Direct
              > (281) 324-1669 Fax
              >  
              >  
              >  
              >  
              >  
              >  
              >




              --
              Stephanie Edwards-Musa
              Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
              Mobile:  281-635-9444
              Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
              www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
              Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com

            • J P Malone
              At the Solar Decathlon in Washington DC the school from Germany discussed an interesting financing program in use in Germany. I cannot remember all the details
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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                At the Solar Decathlon in Washington DC the school from Germany discussed an interesting financing program in use in Germany.

                 

                I cannot remember all the details but, Germany has been using a program whereby they securitize an installation and sell it to investors.  Using  the Discounted Cash Flow model the investor (not necessarily the homeowner) pays the money up front for the installation.  The cash flow projection is based upon several factors including the desired rate of return to the investor, the average sun shine at the location, etc.  The excess energy produced is sold back to the grid at a fixed minimum cash flow for 20+- years.

                 

                I am not certain, but I think the homeowner gets his personal energy free and the investor receives the excess funds. 

                They have also experimented with doing a similar investment whereby the home mortgage is also retired based on the cash flow sharing between investor/mortgage holder. The utility gets excess capacity without having to invest in new plant infrastructure.

                In a “perfect world” the resident of the house could theoretically live there without a mortgage payment or electric bill.  I have yet to find a perfect world situation.

                 

                 

                 

                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:29 AM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                 

                You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.

                The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.

                It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.

                This is legislation that should be supported.

                Jim Duncan

                North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                817.917.057
                ntrei@...


                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM

                Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                 


                How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                >  
                > http://www.kvue.com/projectgreen/greenarticles/stories/030609kvue_renewable-energy_bill-cb.bbd8cc8.html
                >
                >  
                >
                >  
                > Jim Hudson
                > Attic Breeze
                > jim.hudson@...
                > www.atticbreeze.net
                > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                >  
                >  
                >  
                >  
                >  
                >  
                >

              • Tyra Rankin
                Hello all - I recently joined HREG. In 2007, I wrote my master s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
                • 0 Attachment

                  Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proliferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas , wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe .  In the US , however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California ’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 

                   

                  Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 

                   

                  Kind regards,

                   

                   

                  Tyra Rankin

                  1111 W. 17th St .

                  Houston, TX 77008

                  713-426-2828

                  tyra@...

                   


                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                   

                  About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.

                  Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.

                   

                  Jim Duncan

                  North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                  817.917.057
                  ntrei@earthlink. net

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM

                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                   

                  What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                  (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)


                  On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:

                  You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.

                  The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.

                  It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.

                  This is legislation that should be supported.

                  Jim Duncan

                  North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                  817.917.057
                  ntrei@earthlink. net


                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM

                  Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                   


                  How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                  >  
                  > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >  
                  > Jim Hudson
                  > Attic Breeze
                  > jim.hudson@. ..
                  > www.atticbreeze. net
                  > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                  > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                  >  
                  >  
                  >  
                  >  
                  >  
                  >  
                  >




                  --
                  Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                  Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                  Mobile :  281-635-9444
                  Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                  www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                  Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com

                • Garth & Kim Travis
                  Greetings, For those of us who don t know how the Europeon model works, could you please explain what a feed-in tariff is? Bright Blessings, Kim
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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                    Greetings,
                    For those of us who don't know how the Europeon model works, could you
                    please explain what a 'feed-in tariff' is?
                    Bright Blessings,
                    Kim

                    Tyra Rankin wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello all – I recently joined HREG. In 2007, I wrote my master’s
                    > thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in
                    > tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable
                    > Portfolio Standards “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the
                    > US to see which are most effective in proliferating solar. The “naked”
                    > RPS will not work for solar. This is why in Texas, wind is 99.9% of
                    > the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an
                    > excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial
                    > resources. There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is
                    > so. In my research, I found economic models which have been done in
                    > Europe that clearly explain the effect. States that want solar and
                    > have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.
                    > Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only
                    > work in Europe. In the US, however, states including Louisiana and
                    > Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others
                    > have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies. California’s policy obviously
                    > clearly mandates solar.
                    >
                    > Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind. It takes
                    > some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > **
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • jay.ring@ymail.com
                    Feed-in tariff is another word for subsidy. The government buys energy at a above market rate. Renewable Portfolio Standard means that state law requires
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "Feed-in tariff" is another word for subsidy. The government buys energy at a above market rate.

                      "Renewable Portfolio Standard" means that state law requires a certain percentage of the energy ("portfolio") be generated by renewable energy.



                      --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Greetings,
                      > For those of us who don't know how the Europeon model works, could you
                      > please explain what a 'feed-in tariff' is?
                      > Bright Blessings,
                      > Kim
                      >
                      > Tyra Rankin wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello all – I recently joined HREG. In 2007, I wrote my master's
                      > > thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in
                      > > tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable
                      > > Portfolio Standards "RPS" (like Texas has) and other policies in the
                      > > US to see which are most effective in proliferating solar. The "naked"
                      > > RPS will not work for solar. This is why in Texas, wind is 99.9% of
                      > > the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an
                      > > excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial
                      > > resources. There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is
                      > > so. In my research, I found economic models which have been done in
                      > > Europe that clearly explain the effect. States that want solar and
                      > > have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.
                      > > Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only
                      > > work in Europe. In the US, however, states including Louisiana and
                      > > Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others
                      > > have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies. California's policy obviously
                      > > clearly mandates solar.
                      > >
                      > > Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind. It takes
                      > > some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • jay.ring@ymail.com
                      I still don t get it. How much would you pay for a $170,000 house that comes with $30,000 in debt? Most of us would pay $200,000 for it. So your instead of
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
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                        I still don't get it.

                        How much would you pay for a $170,000 house that comes with $30,000 in debt? Most of us would pay $200,000 for it.

                        So your instead of your mortgage payment to the bank going up, your escrow payment to the country goes up. Either way the total payment is the same.

                        What's the big difference?





                        --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.
                        > The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
                        > It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
                        > This is legislation that should be supported.
                        > Jim Duncan
                        > North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                        > 817.917.057
                        > ntrei@...
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: jay.ring@...
                        > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
                        > Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?
                        >
                        > --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                        > >
                        > > http://www.kvue.com/projectgreen/greenarticles/stories/030609kvue_renewable-energy_bill-cb.bbd8cc8.html
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Jim Hudson
                        > > Attic Breeze
                        > > jim.hudson@
                        > > www.atticbreeze.net
                        > > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                        > > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Andrew McCalla
                        Kim, Perhaps a more objective and colloquial definition of feed-in tariff in this context would be the compensation (by a utility, governmental entity, etc.)
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Kim,

                           

                          Perhaps a more objective and colloquial definition of feed-in tariff in this context would be the compensation (by a utility, governmental entity, etc.) to a producer of renewable energy at a premium valuation.

                           

                          To simply call it a subsidy (surplus to market rates) overlooks many of the motivations for the implementation of the concept of such tariffs, and misconstrues those market rates as being without subsidy or other market controls themselves.

                           

                          A lot of factors go into the pricing of electricity, and some (societies, individuals, countries, municipalities, etc.) ascribe a premium valuation to the clean stuff.

                           

                          It is late, so for a more eloquent treatment, there’s Wikipedia:

                           

                           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed-in_Tariff

                           

                          Andrew

                           


                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jay.ring@...
                          Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:30 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                           

                          "Feed-in tariff" is another word for subsidy. The government buys energy at a above market rate.

                          "Renewable Portfolio Standard" means that state law requires a certain percentage of the energy ("portfolio" ) be generated by renewable energy.

                          --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Greetings,
                          > For those of us who don't know how the Europeon model works, could you
                          > please explain what a 'feed-in tariff' is?
                          > Bright Blessings,
                          > Kim
                          >
                          > Tyra Rankin wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello all – I recently joined HREG. In 2007, I wrote my
                          master's
                          > > thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in
                          > > tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable
                          > > Portfolio Standards "RPS" (like
                          w:st="on">Texas has) and other policies in the
                          > > US to see which are most effective in proliferating solar. The
                          "naked"
                          > > RPS will not work for solar. This is why in
                          w:st="on">Texas , wind is 99.9% of
                          > > the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having
                          an
                          > > excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial
                          > > resources. There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is
                          > > so. In my research, I found economic models which have been done in
                          > > Europe that clearly explain the
                          effect. States that want solar and
                          > > have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.
                          > > Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only
                          > > work in Europe . In the
                          w:st="on">US , however, states including Louisiana and
                          > > Florida
                          are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others
                          > > have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.
                          w:st="on">California 's policy obviously
                          > > clearly mandates solar.
                          > >
                          > > Texas
                          could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind. It takes
                          > > some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                          > >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >

                        • Tyra Rankin
                          Andrew: Very well explained, even given the late hour. Best, Tyra _____ From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew McCalla
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 12, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Andrew:

                             

                            Very well explained, even given the late hour.

                             

                            Best,

                            Tyra

                             


                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Andrew McCalla
                            Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:36 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                             

                            Kim,

                             

                            Perhaps a more objective and colloquial definition of feed-in tariff in this context would be the compensation (by a utility, governmental entity, etc.) to a producer of renewable energy at a premium valuation.

                             

                            To simply call it a subsidy (surplus to market rates) overlooks many of the motivations for the implementation of the concept of such tariffs, and misconstrues those market rates as being without subsidy or other market controls themselves.

                             

                            A lot of factors go into the pricing of electricity, and some (societies, individuals, countries, municipalities, etc.) ascribe a premium valuation to the clean stuff.

                             

                            It is late, so for a more eloquent treatment, there’s Wikipedia:

                             

                             http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Feed-in_Tariff

                             

                            Andrew

                             


                            From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of jay.ring@ymail. com
                            Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:30 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                             

                            "Feed-in tariff" is another word for subsidy. The government buys energy at a above market rate.

                            "Renewable Portfolio Standard" means that state law requires a certain percentage of the energy ("portfolio" ) be generated by renewable energy.

                            --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Greetings,
                            > For those of us who don't know how the Europeon model works, could you
                            > please explain what a 'feed-in tariff' is?
                            > Bright Blessings,
                            > Kim
                            >
                            > Tyra Rankin wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello all – I recently joined HREG. In 2007, I wrote my
                            master's
                            > > thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in
                            > > tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable
                            > > Portfolio Standards "RPS" (like
                            w:st="on">Texas has) and other policies in the
                            > > US to see which are most effective in proliferating solar. The
                            "naked"
                            > > RPS will not work for solar. This is why in
                            w:st="on"> Texas , wind is 99.9% of
                            > > the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having
                            an
                            > > excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial
                            > > resources. There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is
                            > > so. In my research, I found economic models which have been done in
                            > > Europe that clearly
                            explain the effect. States that want solar and
                            > > have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.
                            > > Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only
                            > > work in Europe . In the
                            w:st="on">US , however, states including Louisiana and
                            > > Florida
                            are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others
                            > > have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.
                            w:st="on">California 's policy obviously
                            > > clearly mandates solar.
                            > >
                            > > Texas
                            could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind. It takes
                            > > some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                            > >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >

                          • phil6142@aol.com
                            Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 18, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives than other renewable energy options and still they often out compete it.  To me the key to renewable energy is the application of the right technology at the right place not trying to fit the same technology into use everywhere.  Why right policy that tries to force Solar PV if for a particular area wind is a better option?

                              Phillip


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:52 pm
                              Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                              Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proli ferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas, wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe.  In the US, however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 
                               
                              Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 
                               
                              Kind regards,
                               
                               
                              Tyra Rankin
                              1111 W. 17th St.
                              Houston, TX 77008
                              713-426-2828
                               
                              0D

                              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                              Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                               
                              About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.
                              Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.
                               
                              Jim Duncan
                              North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                              817.917.057
                              ntrei@earthlink. net
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                               
                              What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                              (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)


                              On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:
                              You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.
                              The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
                              It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
                              This is legislation that should be supported.
                              Jim Duncan
                              North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                              817.917.057
                              ntrei@earthlink. net

                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
                              Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !
                               

                              How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                              --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                              >  
                              > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >  
                              > Jim Hudson
                              > Attic Breeze
                              > jim.hudson@. ..
                              > www.atticbreeze. net
                              > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                              > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >



                              --
                              Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                              Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                              Mobile:  281-635-9444
                              Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                              www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                              Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com
                            • evelyn sardina
                              Because in the case of Houston, we don t have the wind option (unless you live in Galveston, which is of course not Houston) since we don t get enough wind.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 19, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Because in the case of Houston, we don't have the wind option (unless you live in Galveston, which is of course not Houston) since we don't get enough wind. What we do have is enough roof tops and plenty of sun! A huge part of our energy goes into water heating and this problem can easily be taken care of with a solar water heater. You can argue that you can take care of this with a tankless water heater ( and it is an option) but, why not use the sun when it works just fine! Buy the way, the wind is comming..... To me the key is using all types of alternative energy so that there is a balance andvariety of technology involved. This would help with the monopolization of energy. My two cents.

                                --- On Wed, 3/18/09, phil6142@... <phil6142@...> wrote:
                                From: phil6142@... <phil6142@...>
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:13 PM

                                Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives than other renewable energy options and still they often out compete it.  To me the key to renewable energy is the application of the right technology at the right place not trying to fit the same technology into use everywhere.  Why right policy that tries to force Solar PV if for a particular area wind is a better option?

                                Phillip


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:52 pm
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proli ferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas, wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe.  In the US, however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 
                                 
                                Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 
                                 
                                Kind regards,
                                 
                                 
                                Tyra Rankin
                                1111 W. 17th St.
                                Houston, TX 77008
                                713-426-2828
                                 
                                0D

                                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                 
                                About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.
                                Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.
                                 
                                Jim Duncan
                                North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                817.917.057
                                ntrei@earthlink. net
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                 
                                What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                                (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)


                                On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:
                                You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.
                                The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
                                It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
                                This is legislation that should be supported.
                                Jim Duncan
                                North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                817.917.057
                                ntrei@earthlink. net

                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
                                Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !
                                 

                                How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                                --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                                >  
                                > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >  
                                > Jim Hudson
                                > Attic Breeze
                                > jim.hudson@. ..
                                > www.atticbreeze. net
                                > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                                > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                                >  
                                >  
                                >  
                                >  
                                >  
                                >  
                                >



                                --
                                Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                                Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                                Mobile:  281-635-9444
                                Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                                www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                                Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com

                              • Tyra Rankin
                                Phillip: Your comment is curious. It is interesting that you assumed I referred to Photovoltaics, (PV) although nowhere in my note do I mention PV. In fact
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 19, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Phillip:


                                  Your comment is curious.  It is interesting that you assumed I referred to Photovoltaics, (PV) although nowhere in my note do I mention PV.  In fact solar has many different technologies; some more progressed in their development than others.  These would include concentrated solar thermal, known as CSP, thin film, PV, nano-paint, quantum dots, solar hot water, solar optics, combined CSP/PV just to name a few.  Your comment suggests that perhaps in Texas you think wind is a better technology choice.  I wonder why that might be.  My comment does not make mention of forcing a technology on anyone, but instead of offering multiple solutions so that consumers can have a greater range to choose from.   Solar and wind do not compete with each other.  In fact, the technologies are very complementary and developers in some parts of the country are doing combined installations of wind with solar.  Wind often performs optimally at night, solar in the day, so combining the two is a win for everyone.

                                   

                                  You refer to solar having more incentives than wind.  In Texas , I wonder what those incentives might be.

                                   

                                  Tyra

                                   


                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of phil6142@...
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:13 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                   

                                  Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives than other renewable energy options and still they often out compete it.  To me the key to renewable energy is the application of the right technology at the right place not trying to fit the same technology into use everywhere.  Why right policy that tries to force Solar PV if for a particular area wind is a better option?

                                  Phillip


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Tyra Rankin < tyra@... >
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:52 pm
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                  Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proli ferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas , wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe .  In the US , however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in tariffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California ’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 

                                   

                                  Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 

                                   

                                  Kind regards,

                                   

                                   

                                  Tyra Rankin

                                  1111 W. 17th St .

                                  Houston, TX 77008

                                  713-426-2828

                                   

                                  0D


                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                   

                                  About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.

                                  Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.

                                   

                                  Jim Duncan

                                  North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                  817.917.057
                                  ntrei@earthlink. net

                                   

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                   

                                  What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                                  (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)

                                  On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:

                                  You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two payments if you like.

                                  The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.

                                  It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.

                                  This is legislation that should be supported.

                                  Jim Duncan

                                  North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                  817.917.057
                                  ntrei@earthlink. net


                                   

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM

                                  Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                                   


                                  How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                                  >  
                                  > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- cb.bbd8cc8. html
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Jim Hudson
                                  > Attic Breeze
                                  > jim.hudson@. ..
                                  > www.atticbreeze. net
                                  > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                                  > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >




                                  --
                                  Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                                  Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                                  Mobile :  281-635-9444
                                  Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                                  www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                                  Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com

                                • phil6142@aol.com
                                  Sorry for the misunderstanding in your note, I did think that you were referring to only Photovoltaics.  Admittedly I am not that familiar with the exact
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 19, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Sorry for the misunderstanding in your note, I did think that you were referring to only Photovoltaics.  Admittedly I am not that familiar with the exact policies in Europe but from what I have seen they are most heavily using PV and up until this year that is pretty much the only one technology that our goverment was pushing.  I happen to think that Solar Water Heating and CSP are in many cases better options than PV but are often over looked.  The incentives for Solar PV in Texas are the same as in the rest of the country, 30% tax credit (recently raised to a much higher limit).  The recent bailout package did bring other technologies alot more in line but for a long time only Solar PV recieved any incentives from the federal goverment.  I think we are very fortunate in Texas that we have good resources in both wind and solar.  But if you are looking at large scale production in most of Texas wind is more economical and Solar Hot Water is almost always more economical than PV.  Sorry I misuderstood what you were saying there I have just read several articles lately saying how solar PV was the greatest technology ever and was going to solve all our problems (with Germany as the example cited) and I would hate to see us get tied to one technology when there are many other good options and depending on the local environment PV, wind, geothermal, micro-hydro or a combination may be the best option depending on the circumstances. 

                                    I also am not that familiar with how the feed in tariff works.  Could you help me out with a couple questions?  In that system do you get paid for all the electricity you produce or just what is over your own consumption? Does this policy support things like solar hot water in which no electricity is generated? 

                                    Phillip


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:44 am
                                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                    Phillip:

                                    Your comment is curious.  It is interesting that you assumed I referred to Photovoltaics, (PV) although nowhere in my note do I mention PV.  In fact solar has many different technologies; some more progressed in their development than others.  These would include concentrated solar thermal, known as CSP, thin film, PV, nano-paint, quantum dots, solar hot water, solar optics, combined CSP/PV just to nam e a few.  Your comment suggests that perhaps in Texas you think wind is a better technology choice.  I wonder why that might be.  My comment does not make mention of forcing a technology on anyone, but instead of offering multiple solutions so that consumers can have a greater range to choose from.   Solar and wind do not compete with each other.  In fact, the technologies are very complementary and developers in some parts of the country are doing combined installations of wind with solar.  Wind often performs optimally at night, solar in the day, so combining the two is a win for everyone.
                                     
                                    You refer to solar having more incentives than wind.  In Texas, I wonder what those incentives might be.
                                     
                                    Tyra
                                     

                                    From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:13 PM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                     
                                    Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives than other renewable energy options and still they often out compete it.  To me the key to renewable energy is the application of the right technology at the right place not trying to fit the same technology into use everywhere.  Why right policy that tries to force Solar PV if for a particular area wind is a better option?

                                    Phillip


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Tyra Ra nkin <tyra@...>
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:52 pm
                                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                    Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proli ferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas, wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe.  In the US, however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in ta riffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 
                                     
                                    Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 
                                     
                                    Kind regards,
                                     
                                     
                                    Tyra Rankin
                                    1111 W. 17th St.
                                    Houston, TX 77008
                                    713-426-2828
                                     
                                    0D

                                    From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                     
                                    About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.
                                    Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.
                                     
                                    Jim Duncan
                                    North Texas< SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Renewable Energy Inc
                                    817.917.057
                                    ntrei@earthlink. net
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                     
                                    What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                                    (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)

                                    On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:
                                    You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two p ayments if you like.
                                    The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
                                    It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
                                    This is legislation that should be supported.
                                    Jim Duncan
                                    North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                    817.917.057
                                    ntrei@earthlink. net

                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
                                    Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !
                                     

                                    How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                                    --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                                    >  
                                    > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- c b.bbd8cc8. html
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Jim Hudson
                                    > Attic Breeze
                                    > jim.hudson@. ..
                                    > www.atticbreeze. net
                                    > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                                    > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >



                                    --
                                    Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                                    Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                                    Mobile:  281-635-9444
                                    Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                                    www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                                    Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com
                                  • Tyra Rankin
                                    Phillip: Not a problem. Most people assume PV when someone mentions solar and are unfamiliar with the panoply of other solar technologies in existence and
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 20, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Phillip:

                                       

                                      Not a problem.  Most people assume PV when someone mentions solar and are unfamiliar with the panoply of other solar technologies in existence and under development.  Europe is leading the way not only in PV, but in the variety as well – including thin film and CSP.  To make another clarification about my original comment, I was speaking about Texas policy, not Federal.  The tax incentives you mention are Federal tax incentives.  My comment was about the Texas state Renewable Portfolio Standard or PRS. 

                                       

                                      The benefit of Feed-in tariff policy is that it supports ALL renewables eqally.  Feed-in incorporate a pricing structure that allows each to be compensated for the electricity fed into the grid.  These include biomas, wind, solar (all forms,) geothermal and others. 

                                       

                                      I recently put out bids for minor carpentry on my home.  One of the bidders, from the Woodlands was a builder from Belgium .  He and I enjoyed a lively discussion of this topic and he explained that in Europe , builders are no longer installing mechanical/electric heating/AC systems in homes.  Instead, new homes are built with a system that includes an external air envelope, geothermal pumps, solar hot water and solar roof tops.  The temperature is maintained year round at a range of 72-75 degrees F with no AC/heating. 

                                       

                                      Tyra

                                       


                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of phil6142@...
                                      Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:33 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                       

                                      Sorry for the misunderstanding in your note, I did think that you were referring to only Photovoltaics.  Admittedly I am not that familiar with the exact policies in Europe but from what I have seen they are most heavily using PV and up until this year that is pretty much the only one technology that our goverment was pushing.  I happen to think that Solar Water Heating and CSP are in many cases better options than PV but are often over looked.  The incentives for Solar PV in Texas are the same as in the rest of the country, 30% tax credit (recently raised to a much higher limit).  The recent bailout package did bring other technologies alot more in line but for a long time only Solar PV recieved any incentives from the federal goverment.  I think we are very fortunate in Texas that we have good resources in both wind and solar.  But if you are looking at large scale production in most of Texas wind is more economical and Solar Hot Water is almost always more economical than PV.  Sorry I misuderstood what you were saying there I have just read several articles lately saying how solar PV was the greatest technology ever and was going to solve all our problems (with Germany as the example cited) and I would hate to see us get tied to one technology when there are many other good options and depending on the local environment PV, wind, geothermal, micro-hydro or a combination may be the best option depending on the circumstances. 

                                      I also am not that familiar with how the feed in tariff works.  Could you help me out with a couple questions?  In that system do you get paid for all the electricity you produce or just what is over your own consumption? Does this policy support things like solar hot water in which no electricity is generated? 

                                      Phillip


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Tyra Rankin < tyra@... >
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:44 am
                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                      Phillip:


                                      Your comment is curious.  It is interesting that you assumed I referred to Photovoltaics, (PV) although nowhere in my note do I mention PV.  In fact solar has many different technologies; some more progressed in their development than others.  These would include concentrated solar thermal, known as CSP, thin film, PV, nano-paint, quantum dots, solar hot water, solar optics, combined CSP/PV just to nam e a few.  Your comment suggests that perhaps in Texas you think wind is a better technology choice.  I wonder why that might be.  My comment does not make mention of forcing a technology on anyone, but instead of offering multiple solutions so that consumers can have a greater range to choose from.   Solar and wind do not compete with each other.  In fact, the technologies are very complementary and developers in some parts of the country are doing combined installations of wind with solar.  Wind often performs optimally at night, solar in the day, so combining the two is a win for everyone.

                                       

                                      You refer to solar having more incentives than wind.  In Texas , I wonder what those incentives might be.

                                       

                                      Tyra

                                       


                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:13 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                       

                                      Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives than other renewable energy options and still they often out compete it.  To me the key to renewable energy is the application of the right technology at the right place not trying to fit the same technology into use everywhere.  Why right policy that tries to force Solar PV if for a particular area wind is a better option?

                                      Phillip


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Tyra Ra nkin <tyra@...>
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:52 pm
                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                      Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proli ferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas , wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe .  In the US , however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in ta riffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California ’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 

                                       

                                      Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 

                                       

                                      Kind regards,

                                       

                                       

                                      Tyra Rankin

                                      1111 W. 17th St .

                                      Houston, TX 77008

                                      713-426-2828

                                       

                                      0D


                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                      Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                       

                                      About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.

                                      Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.

                                       

                                      Jim Duncan

                                      North Texas SPAN style="FONT- FAMILY: Arial"> Renewable Energy Inc
                                      817.917.057
                                      ntrei@earthlink. net

                                       

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM

                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                       

                                      What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                                      (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)

                                      On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:

                                      You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two p ayments if you like.

                                      The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.

                                      It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.

                                      This is legislation that should be supported.

                                      Jim Duncan

                                      North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                      817.917.057
                                      ntrei@earthlink. net


                                       

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM

                                      Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !

                                       


                                      How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                                      --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                                      >  
                                      > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- c b.bbd8cc8. html
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > Jim Hudson
                                      > Attic Breeze
                                      > jim.hudson@. ..
                                      > www.atticbreeze. net
                                      > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                                      > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                                      >  
                                      >  
                                      >  
                                      >  
                                      >  
                                      >  
                                      >




                                      --
                                      Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                                      Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                                      Mobile :  281-635-9444
                                      Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                                      www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                                      Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com

                                    • phil6142@aol.com
                                      Thanks.  A couple more questions it is nice to be able to ask someone who knows the policy well.  In general technologies like solar hot water and geothermal
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 20, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks.  A couple more questions it is nice to be able to ask someone who knows the policy well.  In general technologies like solar hot water and geothermal don't create electiricity they simply reduce the amount of electricity or natural gas that a home owner needs, is there a mechanism in the Feed in Tarriff policy to incentivize these type of technologies?  With reguard to Solar PV, wind or other electricity generating technologies does the policy pay (or reward) the homeowner for all the electricity the system produces or just what it produces above what the homeowner consumes?

                                        Thanks,

                                        Phillip


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:49 am
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !

                                        Phillip:
                                         
                                        Not a problem.  Most people assume PV when someone mentions solar and are unfamiliar with the panoply of other solar technologies in existence and under development.  Europe is leading the way not only in PV, but in the variety as well – including thin film and CSP.  To make another clarification about my original comment, I was speaking about Texas policy, not Federal.  The tax incentives you mention are Federal tax incentives.  My comment was about the Texas state Renewable Portfolio Standard or PRS. 
                                         
                                        The benefit of Feed-in tariff policy is that it supports ALL renewables eqally.  Feed-in incorporate a pricing structure that allows each to be compensated for the electricity fed into the grid.  These include biomas, wind, solar (all forms,) geothermal and others. 
                                         
                                        I recently put out bids for minor carpentry on my home.  One of the bidders, from the Woodlands was a builder from Belgium.&n bsp; He and I enjoyed a lively discussion of this topic and he explained that in Europe, builders are no longer installing mechanical/electric heating/AC systems in homes.  Instead, new homes are built with a system that includes an external air envelope, geothermal pumps, solar hot water and solar roof tops.  The temperature is maintained year round at a range of 72-75 degrees F with no AC/heating. 
                                         
                                        Tyra
                                         

                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:33 PM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                         
                                        Sorry for the misunderstanding in your note, I did think that you were referring to only Photovoltaics.  Admittedly I am not that familiar with the exact policies in Europe but from what I have seen they are most heavily using PV and up until this year that is pretty much the only one technology that our goverment was pushing.  I happen to think that Solar Water Heating and CSP are in many cases better options than PV but are often over looked.  The incentives for Solar PV in Texas are the same as in the rest of the country, 30% tax credit (recently raised to a much higher limit).  The recent bailout package did bring other technologies alot more in line but for a long time only Solar PV recieved any incentives from the federal goverment.  I think we are very fortunate in Texas that we have good resources in both wind and solar.  But if you are looking at large scale production in most of Texas wind is more economical and Solar Hot Water is almost always more economical than PV.  Sorry I misuderstood what you were saying there I have just read several articles lately saying how solar PV was the greatest technology ever and w as going to solve all our problems (with Germany as the example cited) and I would hate to see us get tied to one technology when there are many other good options and depending on the local environment PV, wind, geothermal, micro-hydro or a combination may be the best option depending on the circumstances. 

                                        I also am not that familiar with how the feed in tariff works.  Could you help me out with a couple questions?  In that system do you get paid for all the electricity you produce or just what is over your own consumption? Does this policy support things like solar hot water in which no electricity is generated? 

                                        Phillip


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Tyra Rankin <tyra@...>
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:44 am
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                        Phillip:

                                        Your comment is curious.  It is interesting that you assumed I referred to Photovoltaics, (PV) although nowhere in my note do I mention PV.  In fact solar has many different techno logies; some more progressed in their development than others.  These would include concentrated solar thermal, known as CSP, thin film, PV, nano-paint, quantum dots, solar hot water, solar optics, combined CSP/PV just to nam e a few.  Your comment suggests that perhaps in Texas you think wind is a better technology choice.  I wonder why that might be.  My comment does not make mention of forcing a technology on anyone, but instead of offering multiple solutions so that consumers can have a greater range to choose from.   Solar and wind do not compete with each other.  In fact, the technologies are very complementary and developers in some parts of the country are doing combined installations of wind with solar.  Wind often performs optimally at night, solar in the day, so combining the two is a win for everyone.
                                         
                                        You refer to solar having more incentives than wind.  In Texas, I wonder what those incentives might be.
                                         
                                        Tyra
                                         

                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:13 PM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                         
                                        Why is it exactly that we would want to promote solar PV above all the other types of renewable energy?  Solar PV already has significantly more incentives than other renewable energy o ptions and still they often out compete it.  To me the key to renewable energy is the application of the right technology at the right place not trying to fit the same technology into use everywhere.  Why right policy that tries to force Solar PV if for a particular area wind is a better option?

                                        Phillip


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Tyra Ra nkin <tyra@...>
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:52 pm
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                        Hello all – I recently joined HREG.  In 2007, I wrote my master’s thesis in Law at UH on Solar Energy Policy, comparing the feed-in tariffs of Germany/Spain and elsewhere in Europe to Renewable Portfolio Standards  “RPS” (like Texas has) and other policies in the US to see which are most effective in proli ferating solar.  The “naked” RPS will not work for solar.  This is why in Texas, wind is 99.9% of the renewable energy supply and solar is Zero – despite having an excellent solar resource, capital resource and other industrial resources.   There are very tangible and measured reasons why this is so.  In20my research, I found economic models which have been done in Europe that clearly explain the effect.  States that want solar and have an RPS must add additional policies in order to deploy solar.  Many cringe at the idea of a feed-in tariff, feeling it could only work in Europe.  In the US, however, states including Louisiana and Florida are in the process of implementing feed-in ta riffs and others have hybrid RPS/feed-in policies.  California’s policy obviously clearly mandates solar. 
                                         
                                        Texas could lead the country in solar, just as we do in wind.  It takes some intelligent policy design and will to achieve, however. 
                                         
                                        Kind regards,
                                         
                                         
                                        Tyra Rankin
                                        1111 W. 17th St.
                                        Houston, TX 77008
                                        713-426-2828
                                         
                                        0D

                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                         
                                        About the only statewide incentive offered to PV customers up to now is an exemption from property tax rate increases based on the cost of a renewable energy system. That's been on the books for years.
                                        Another piece of legislation under consideration will exempt installation costs from state sales tax.
                                         
                                        Jim Duncan
                                        North Texas SPAN style="FONT- FAMILY: Arial"> Renewable Energy Inc
                                        817.917.057
                                        ntrei@earthlink. net
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:33 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar for Texas !
                                         
                                        What about property appraisals?  If the debt stays with the property, then the banks will have to acknowledge that solar REALLY DOES increase=2 0the property value.  If the homeowner sells, it could be considered a down side to potential buyers. 

                                        (I would not take it that way, but has the public changed their thoughts on solar that much?)
                                        On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jim & Janet <jhd1@earthlink. net> wrote:
                                        You would make only one payment per year. That payment would be included with your property tax payment. That payment, here in Tarrant County at least, can be spread into two p ayments if you like.
                                        The total cost will be amoritized (without interest) over twenty years and remains a "lien" against the property regardless of who owns the property. That same property owner would, presumably, "own" the electric service and any costs and benefits like net metering that apply to the PV systems output and the homes electric usage.
                                        It's about the most cost effective way I can think of to finance a PV system.
                                        This is legislation that should be supported.
                                        Jim Duncan
                                        North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
                                        817.917.057
                                        ntrei@earthlink. net

                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
                                        Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar for Texas !
                                         

                                        How is this different from getting a loan from a bank?

                                        --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Jim Hudson <jim.hudson@. ..> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Check out the link below about the proposed HB 1391. This could be very exciting for the solar industry and Texas residents.
                                        >  
                                        > http://www.kvue. com/projectgreen /greenarticles/ stories/030609kv ue_renewable- energy_bill- c b.bbd8cc8. html
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        > Jim Hudson
                                        > Attic Breeze
                                        > jim.hudson@. ..
                                        > www.atticbreeze. net
                                        > (281) 904-5281 Direct
                                        > (281) 324-1669 Fax
                                        >  
                                        >  
                                        >  
                                        >  
                                        >  
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        =0 A



                                        --
                                        Stephanie Edwards-Musa
                                        Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
                                        Mobile:  281-635-9444
                                        Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
                                        www.TurningHoustonG reen.com
                                        Steph@TurningHousto nGreen.com
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