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Only government' can solve nation's ills

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  • Solar Energy
    What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on this offer? Ahmad   Obama: Only government can solve nation s ills By Tom Shoop
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 9, 2009

      What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on this offer?

      Ahmad

       

      Obama: 'Only government' can solve nation's ills
      By Tom Shoop tshoop@... January 8, 2009
       
      In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic stimulus plan, President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in the role of government, along with key initiatives that would affect the federal workplace -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal buildings to make them more energy efficient.
       
      "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe," Obama said in a speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only government can break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where a lack of spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending; where an inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less credit."
       
      Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of alternative energy within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at tens of thousands of educational institutions across the country, to launch infrastructure repair projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand broadband access nationwide.
       
      Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address, Obama said, "We need to upgrade our federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing efficient light bulbs."
       
      Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just another public works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming majority of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that the proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops, firefighters and others who provide vital services."
      "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs," Obama said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."



    • Jim & Janet
      My concern is that any taxpayer funded debt used to fund RE and EE inititives will go to state governments for distribution. This is by no means best way to
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 9, 2009
        My concern is that any taxpayer funded debt used to fund RE and EE inititives will go to state governments for distribution. This is by no means best way to assure that  the installers, manufacturers, distributors, contractors etc that will do the actual hiring, payroll and the work, will actually see the money.
        If the model used to "rebuild" Iraq or New Orleans is followed for this , most of the money may never reach the intended workers and small businesses that will do the work.
        And contrary to its prevailing mentality, "government" is not the solution.
         
        my 2 Watts worth
        Jim Duncan
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        To: hreg
        Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:14 PM
        Subject: [hreg] Only government' can solve nation's ills


        What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on this offer?

        Ahmad

        Obama: 'Only government' can solve nation's ills
        By Tom Shoop tshoop@govexec. com January 8, 2009
         
        In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic stimulus plan, President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in the role of government, along with key initiatives that would affect the federal workplace -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal buildings to make them more energy efficient.
         
        "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe," Obama said in a speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only government can break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where a lack of spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending; where an inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less credit."
         
        Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of alternative energy within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at tens of thousands of educational institutions across the country, to launch infrastructure repair projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand broadband access nationwide.
         
        Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address, Obama said, "We need to upgrade our federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing efficient light bulbs."
         
        Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just another public works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming majority of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that the proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops, firefighters and others who provide vital services."
        "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs," Obama said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."



      • Howard Apel
        As we rapidy slip in to socialism, madated by the people in the election, we will continue to look for government for solutions, as that will soon be the
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 10, 2009
          As we rapidy slip in to socialism, madated by the "people" in the election, we will continue to look for government for solutions, as that will soon be the only entity left.  I never thought it would come so soon, and with such enthusiasm.  But then again, we are repeating the history of the revolutions of the 1917 and 1930's, only now in America. Just be in the front of the line for the handouts, as there really isn't enough for everyone.  And remember, Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.
          Howard
        • Randy Scott
          The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do together what one or a few of us cannot do alone. Bush became famous for his rhetoric of I m a
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 11, 2009
            The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do together
            what one or a few of us cannot do alone.
            Bush became famous for his rhetoric of "I'm a uniter, not a divider."
            It's neccessary to push a stupidly simple slogan when you're not
            doing anything else constructive.
            'Bama's message is more subtle and indicates a genuine call for the
            entire nation to work together for a common goal....I hope.

            I think we could capitalize on this IF we can get past the invisible
            force field that politicians surround themselves with.

            I've been actively looking for opportunities to get out of the
            oilfield machinery industry and into a "green collar job". More and
            more lately it's become fashionable to talk of a "new economy" of
            sustainability, even if it only means corporate news media giving a
            mouthpiece for corporate green-washing promises of how green the
            future is going to be after corporate executives pocket another
            government handout or after someone magically invents a new battery
            that will make the Chevy Volt economically viable.

            It's possible that honest efforts to create green jobs may ride in on
            the rising tide that becomes possible as "new green economy" rhetoric
            becomes more mainstream. For a while, at least, the status quo
            conservatives will continue the cry about "socialism" and "nanny
            state" but dinosaur ideologies are fading away gradually as real
            world neccessity forces people to look at reality.





            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Solar Energy <WhySolar@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on
            this offer?
            >
            > Ahmad
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > Obama: 'Only government'
            > can solve nation's ills
            >
            > By Tom Shoop tshoop@...
            > January 8, 2009
            >
            >  
            >
            > In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic
            stimulus plan,
            > President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in the
            role of
            > government, along with key initiatives that would affect the
            federal workplace
            > -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal buildings
            to make them
            > more energy efficient.
            >
            >  
            >
            > "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create
            jobs or
            > long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government
            can provide
            > the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this
            deep and
            > severe," Obama said in a
            > speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only government
            can
            > break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where a
            lack of
            > spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending;
            where an
            > inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less
            credit."
            >
            >  
            >
            > Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of
            alternative energy
            > within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at tens
            of thousands
            > of educational institutions across the country, to launch
            infrastructure repair
            > projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand
            broadband access
            > nationwide.
            >
            >  
            >
            > Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal
            > buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address,
            Obama said, "We need to upgrade our
            > federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing
            efficient
            > light bulbs."
            >
            >  
            >
            > Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just another
            public
            > works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming majority
            > of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that
            the
            > proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops,
            > firefighters and others who provide vital services."
            >
            > "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs," Obama
            > said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."
            >
          • chasmauch@aol.com
            This is a very good statement - well said. I agree with just about all of it. As for the wish to get out of the oil patch and into a green line of work - I
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 11, 2009
              This is a very good statement - well said. I agree with just about all of it.
               
              As for the wish to get out of the oil patch and into a "green" line of work - I had the same problem. I worked as a petroleum engineer with Sun Oil Company for almost 30 years - always wanting to get into a greener line of work but never could figure out how or what. Finally took early retirement at age 55 - they were downsizing and offered a very generous severance package as incentive so was able to take a few months to look around. I finally went to work for the City of Houston as an environmental engineer. They hired me even though I had no experience or credentials in that field to speak of. They were glad to have an engineer and a PE (very few engineers consider government work, assuming it is underpaid, boring, and non-productive but this was not) - they said don't worry - we will train you, which they did.
               
              The salary was only about 2/3 of what I had before but by the time I retired from the city 9 years later I was supervising 5 other engineers and making almost as much as I made before. Was also eligible for a small retirement pension that has come in very handy for my retirement. I did SIP inspections of various plants, shops, and other businesses to verify that they were in compliance with regulations and the provisions of their permits, keeping proper records, etc. It was interesting and (in my opinion) useful work, helping keep the world green.
               
              I suggest more people try to work for the city or state. You won't get rich but could feel better about the work.  But no use trying Austin - it's considered a great place to live and everyone wants to work there so they pay less than others and have a long waiting list of highly qualified people (even some PhDs) but Houston was eager for such people - or at least they were a few years ago. Anyway you might think about that possibility.
               
              Charles Mauch  
               
              In a message dated 1/11/2009 11:48:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, redscott77092@... writes:

              The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do together
              what one or a few of us cannot do alone.
              Bush became famous for his rhetoric of "I'm a uniter, not a divider."
              It's neccessary to push a stupidly simple slogan when you're not
              doing anything else constructive.
              'Bama's message is more subtle and indicates a genuine call for the
              entire nation to work together for a common goal....I hope.

              I think we could capitalize on this IF we can get past the invisible
              force field that politicians surround themselves with.

              I've been actively looking for opportunities to get out of the
              oilfield machinery industry and into a "green collar job". More and
              more lately it's become fashionable to talk of a "new economy" of
              sustainability, even if it only means corporate news media giving a
              mouthpiece for corporate green-washing promises of how green the
              future is going to be after corporate executives pocket another
              government handout or after someone magically invents a new battery
              that will make the Chevy Volt economically viable.

              It's possible that honest efforts to create green jobs may ride in on
              the rising tide that becomes possible as "new green economy" rhetoric
              becomes more mainstream. For a while, at least, the status quo
              conservatives will continue the cry about "socialism" and "nanny
              state" but dinosaur ideologies are fading away gradually as real
              world neccessity forces people to look at reality.

              --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Solar Energy <WhySolar@.. .> wrote:
              >
              >
              > What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on
              this offer?
              >
              > Ahmad
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > Obama: 'Only government'
              > can solve nation's ills
              >
              > By Tom Shoop tshoop@...
              > January 8, 2009
              >
              >  
              >
              > In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic
              stimulus plan,
              > President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in the
              role of
              > government, along with key initiatives that would affect the
              federal workplace
              > -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal buildings
              to make them
              > more energy efficient.
              >
              >  
              >
              > "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create
              jobs or
              > long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government
              can provide
              > the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this
              deep and
              > severe," Obama said in a
              > speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only government
              can
              > break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where a
              lack of
              > spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending;
              where an
              > inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less
              credit."
              >
              >  
              >
              > Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of
              alternative energy
              > within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at tens
              of thousands
              > of educational institutions across the country, to launch
              infrastructure repair
              > projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand
              broadband access
              > nationwide.
              >
              >  
              >
              > Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal
              > buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address,
              Obama said, "We need to upgrade our
              > federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing
              efficient
              > light bulbs."
              >
              >  
              >
              > Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just another
              public
              > works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming majority
              > of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that
              the
              > proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops,
              > firefighters and others who provide vital services."
              >
              > "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs," Obama
              > said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."
              >

               



            • Don Sandros
              Hi: Here is a small list of green job search sites; not as good as i might like, but it is a definite start..... Career Cast your job search portal
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 11, 2009
                Hi:

                Here is a small list of green job search sites;  not as good as i might like, but it is a definite start.....

                Career Cast"your job search portal"
                http://www.careercast.com/jobs
                Careers in Wind
                http://www.careersinwind.com/
                Dream Job in Solar
                http://www.ongrid.net/dreamjobresources.html
                EcoEmploy
                http://www.ecoemploy.com/jobs
                Green Dream Jobs
                http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/jobs
                Green Jobs
                http://www.greenjobs.com/public/index.aspx
                GreenCareers from Monster
                http://green-jobs.monstertrak.com/
                GreenJobs from Treehugger
                http://jobs.treehugger.com/
                Grist Jobs
                http://jobs.grist.org/
                Indeed.com  -  one search, all jobs
                http://www.indeed.com/
                PV People Employment
                http://www.pvpeople.net
                Renewable Energy Job Search
                http://renewable.careers.adicio.com/careers/jobsearch/
                Solar Staffing
                http://www.solarstaffing.com/?gclid=CILy7PDyhpgCFQUWGgod0G4PDA

                don

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: chasmauch@...
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Only government' can solve nation's ills
                Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:23:27 EST

                This is a very good statement - well said. I agree with just about all of it.
                 
                As for the wish to get out of the oil patch and into a "green" line of work - I had the same problem. I worked as a petroleum engineer with Sun Oil Company for almost 30 years - always wanting to get into a greener line of work but never could figure out how or what. Finally took early retirement at age 55 - they were downsizing and offered a very generous severance package as incentive so was able to take a few months to look around. I finally went to work for the City of Houston as an environmental engineer. They hired me even though I had no experience or credentials in that field to speak of. They were glad to have an engineer and a PE (very few engineers consider government work, assuming it is underpaid, boring, and non-productive but this was not) - they said don't worry - we will train you, which they did.
                 
                The salary was only about 2/3 of what I had before but by the time I retired from the city 9 years later I was supervising 5 other engineers and making almost as much as I made before. Was also eligible for a small retirement pension that has come in very handy for my retirement. I did SIP inspections of various plants, shops, and other businesses to verify that they were in compliance with regulations and the provisions of their permits, keeping proper records, etc. It was interesting and (in my opinion) useful work, helping keep the world green.
                 
                I suggest more people try to work for the city or state. You won't get rich but could feel better about the work.  But no use trying Austin - it's considered a great place to live and everyone wants to work there so they pay less than others and have a long waiting list of highly qualified people (even some PhDs) but Houston was eager for such people - or at least they were a few years ago. Anyway you might think about that possibility.
                 
                Charles Mauch  
                 
                In a message dated 1/11/2009 11:48:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, redscott77092@ yahoo.com writes:

                The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do together
                what one or a few of us cannot do alone.
                Bush became famous for his rhetoric of "I'm a uniter, not a divider."
                It's neccessary to push a stupidly simple slogan when you're not
                doing anything else constructive.
                'Bama's message is more subtle and indicates a genuine call for the
                entire nation to work together for a common goal....I hope.

                I think we could capitalize on this IF we can get past the invisible
                force field that politicians surround themselves with.

                I've been actively looking for opportunities to get out of the
                oilfield machinery industry and into a "green collar job". More and
                more lately it's become fashionable to talk of a "new economy" of
                sustainability, even if it only means corporate news media giving a
                mouthpiece for corporate green-washing promises of how green the
                future is going to be after corporate executives pocket another
                government handout or after someone magically invents a new battery
                that will make the Chevy Volt economically viable.

                It's possible that honest efforts to create green jobs may ride in on
                the rising tide that becomes possible as "new green economy" rhetoric
                becomes more mainstream. For a while, at least, the status quo
                conservatives will continue the cry about "socialism" and "nanny
                state" but dinosaur ideologies are fading away gradually as real
                world neccessity forces people to look at reality.

                --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Solar Energy <WhySolar@.. .> wrote:
                >
                >
                > What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on
                this offer?
                >
                > Ahmad
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > Obama: 'Only government'
                > can solve nation's ills
                >
                > By Tom Shoop tshoop@...
                > January 8, 2009
                >
                >  
                >
                > In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic
                stimulus plan,
                > President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in the
                role of
                > government, along with key initiatives that would affect the
                federal workplace
                > -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal buildings
                to make them
                > more energy efficient.
                >
                >  
                >
                > "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create
                jobs or
                > long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government
                can provide
                > the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this
                deep and
                > severe," Obama said in a
                > speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only government
                can
                > break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where a
                lack of
                > spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending;
                where an
                > inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less
                credit."
                >
                >  
                >
                > Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of
                alternative energy
                > within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at tens
                of thousands
                > of educational institutions across the country, to launch
                infrastructure repair
                > projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand
                broadband access
                > nationwide.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal
                > buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address,
                Obama said, "We need to upgrade our
                > federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing
                efficient
                > light bulbs."
                >
                >  
                >
                > Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just another
                public
                > works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming majority
                > of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that
                the
                > proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops,
                > firefighters and others who provide vital services."
                >
                > "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs," Obama
                > said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."
                >

                 





                Don Sandros
                Marketing Director of Renewable Energy
                SandEnergy
                A SilTek Company
                950 Herndon Parkway Suite # 280
                Herndon, VA 20170-5537
                Phone: 703.777.7750
                Fax: 703.738.7514

                www.sandenergy.net
                don@...
                Member: Association of Energy Engineers
                Member: Solar Energy Industries Association
                Member: US Green Building Council
                Leadership in Energy and Environmental
                Design Chapter:Nation Capital

              • Jack Wagner
                Randy wrote: The role of governmentis to allow us, as a community, to do together what one or a few of us cannot do alone. There are many people on the left,
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 13, 2009
                  Randy wrote:

                  The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do together
                  what one or a few of us cannot do alone.

                  There are many people on the left, right (and down the middle) who are suspicious of the role of government based on past actions. For a great read on the historical role of government, see Howard
                  Zinn's "A Power Governments Cannot Suppress." For those with a more free-market leaning, Ron Paul's "The Revolution: A Manifesto" will do nicely.  Either way, as much as we might wish the government could undo the damage caused by the financial con game of recent decades, the free market will ultimately rule and correct the situation regardless of government stimulation.

                  From: Randy Scott <redscott77092@...>
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:47:43 AM
                  Subject: [hreg] Re: Only government' can solve nation's ills

                  The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do together
                  what one or a few of us cannot do alone.
                  Bush became famous for his rhetoric of "I'm a uniter, not a divider."
                  It's neccessary to push a stupidly simple slogan when you're not
                  doing anything else constructive.
                  'Bama's message is more subtle and indicates a genuine call for the
                  entire nation to work together for a common goal....I hope.

                  I think we could capitalize on this IF we can get past the invisible
                  force field that politicians surround themselves with.

                  I've been actively looking for opportunities to get out of the
                  oilfield machinery industry and into a "green collar job". More and
                  more lately it's become fashionable to talk of a "new economy" of
                  sustainability, even if it only means corporate news media giving a
                  mouthpiece for corporate green-washing promises of how green the
                  future is going to be after corporate executives pocket another
                  government handout or after someone magically invents a new battery
                  that will make the Chevy Volt economically viable.

                  It's possible that honest efforts to create green jobs may ride in on
                  the rising tide that becomes possible as "new green economy" rhetoric
                  becomes more mainstream. For a while, at least, the status quo
                  conservatives will continue the cry about "socialism" and "nanny
                  state" but dinosaur ideologies are fading away gradually as real
                  world neccessity forces people to look at reality.

                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Solar Energy <WhySolar@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > What does this declaration by Obama mean?  Can we capitalize on
                  this offer?
                  >
                  > Ahmad
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > Obama: 'Only government'
                  > can solve nation's ills
                  >
                  > By Tom Shoop tshoop@...
                  > January 8, 2009
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic
                  stimulus plan,
                  > President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in the
                  role of
                  > government, along with key initiatives that would affect the
                  federal workplace
                  > -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal buildings
                  to make them
                  > more energy efficient.
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create
                  jobs or
                  > long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government
                  can provide
                  > the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this
                  deep and
                  > severe," Obama said in a
                  > speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only government
                  can
                  > break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where a
                  lack of
                  > spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending;
                  where an
                  > inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less
                  credit."
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of
                  alternative energy
                  > within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at tens
                  of thousands
                  > of educational institutions across the country, to launch
                  infrastructure repair
                  > projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand
                  broadband access
                  > nationwide.
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal
                  > buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address,
                  Obama said, "We need to upgrade our
                  > federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing
                  efficient
                  > light bulbs."
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just another
                  public
                  > works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming majority
                  > of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that
                  the
                  > proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops,
                  > firefighters and others who provide vital services."
                  >
                  > "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs," Obama
                  > said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."
                  >


                • Randy Scott
                  The free market is a hoax. ... together ... are suspicious of the role of government based on past actions. For a great read on the historical role of
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 23, 2009
                    The "free market" is a hoax.



                    --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Jack Wagner <johnjackwagner2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Randy wrote:
                    >
                    > The role of governmentis to allow us, as a community, to do
                    together
                    > what one or a few of us cannot do alone.
                    >
                    >
                    > There are many people on the left, right (and down the middle) who
                    are suspicious of the role of government based on past actions. For a
                    great read on the historical role of government, see Howard
                    > Zinn's "A Power Governments Cannot Suppress." For those with a more
                    free-market leaning, Ron Paul's "The Revolution: A Manifesto" will do
                    nicely. Either way, as much as we might wish the government could
                    undo the damage caused by the financial con game of recent decades,
                    the free market will ultimately rule and correct the situation
                    regardless of government stimulation.
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Randy Scott <redscott77092@...>
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:47:43 AM
                    > Subject: [hreg] Re: Only government' can solve nation's ills
                    >
                    >
                    > The role of government is to allow us, as a community, to do
                    together
                    > what one or a few of us cannot do alone.
                    > Bush became famous for his rhetoric of "I'm a uniter, not a
                    divider."
                    > It's neccessary to push a stupidly simple slogan when you're not
                    > doing anything else constructive.
                    > 'Bama's message is more subtle and indicates a genuine call for the
                    > entire nation to work together for a common goal....I hope.
                    >
                    > I think we could capitalize on this IF we can get past the
                    invisible
                    > force field that politicians surround themselves with.
                    >
                    > I've been actively looking for opportunities to get out of the
                    > oilfield machinery industry and into a "green collar job". More and
                    > more lately it's become fashionable to talk of a "new economy" of
                    > sustainability, even if it only means corporate news media giving a
                    > mouthpiece for corporate green-washing promises of how green the
                    > future is going to be after corporate executives pocket another
                    > government handout or after someone magically invents a new battery
                    > that will make the Chevy Volt economically viable.
                    >
                    > It's possible that honest efforts to create green jobs may ride in
                    on
                    > the rising tide that becomes possible as "new green economy"
                    rhetoric
                    > becomes more mainstream. For a while, at least, the status quo
                    > conservatives will continue the cry about "socialism" and "nanny
                    > state" but dinosaur ideologies are fading away gradually as real
                    > world neccessity forces people to look at reality.
                    >
                    > --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, Solar Energy <WhySolar@ .> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > What does this declaration by Obama mean? Can we capitalize on
                    > this offer?
                    > >
                    > > Ahmad
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Obama: 'Only government'
                    > > can solve nation's ills
                    > >
                    > > By Tom Shoop tshoop@
                    > > January 8, 2009
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > In a major address on Thursday in which he unveiled his economic
                    > stimulus plan,
                    > > President-elect Obama made the case for a dramatic increase in
                    the
                    > role of
                    > > government, along with key initiatives that would affect the
                    > federal workplace
                    > > -- including a proposal to upgrade 75 percent of federal
                    buildings
                    > to make them
                    > > more energy efficient.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > "It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create
                    > jobs or
                    > > long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government
                    > can provide
                    > > the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this
                    > deep and
                    > > severe," Obama said in a
                    > > speech at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va. "Only
                    government
                    > can
                    > > break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy -- where
                    a
                    > lack of
                    > > spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending;
                    > where an
                    > > inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less
                    > credit."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Specifically, Obama proposed to double the production of
                    > alternative energy
                    > > within three years; to upgrade classrooms and laboratories at
                    tens
                    > of thousands
                    > > of educational institutions across the country, to launch
                    > infrastructure repair
                    > > projects to upgrade bridges, roads and schools; and to expand
                    > broadband access
                    > > nationwide.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Obama also pledged to "modernize more than 75 percent of federal
                    > > buildings" to increase energy efficiency. In a December address,
                    > Obama said, "We need to upgrade our
                    > > federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing
                    > efficient
                    > > light bulbs."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Obama insisted on Thursday that his proposal was "not just
                    another
                    > public
                    > > works program." Under the plan, he said, "the overwhelming
                    majority
                    > > of the jobs created will be in the private sector." He added that
                    > the
                    > > proposal would "save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops,
                    > > firefighters and others who provide vital services."
                    > >
                    > > "Our goal is not to create a slew of new government programs,"
                    Obama
                    > > said, "but a foundation for long-term economic growth."
                    > >
                    >
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