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RE: [hreg] A true challenge: Solar Steam Engine

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  • John Sherman
    William: We could go back some 30 years plus to one of California s first large scale Solar Energy Plants called STEGS 1 and then STEGS 11. Solar collectors
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 9, 2008
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      William:
         We could go back some 30 years plus to one of California's first large scale Solar Energy Plants called STEGS 1 and then STEGS 11. Solar collectors with sun tracking capability produces steam to drive a steam turbine driven generator.
       
         The same basic technology  with today's materials and control  systems will definitely be returning to the power market  and to the production of pure water very soon.
       
        John
       
      John E.Sherman
      Eagle Energy
      EarthLink Revolves Around You.
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: William
      Sent: 11/9/2008 4:37:40 PM
      Subject: [hreg] A true challenge: Solar Steam Engine

      Always up for some mental calisthenics I thought this a great couple of
      links to check out. While I know if there was already a way to do this
      we would already know about it!
      Nevertheless,
      I have been tinkering with the idea for a solar hot water heater and
      a "tempering valve" is definitely needed as temps are not household
      levels. Why not increase temps,somehow? Series of preheated tubes to a
      highly intense series of magnifiers, I don't know. I thought it might
      lead to some interesting debates. Who knows what we could come up with!!

      All ears,
      Bill

      http://www.mikebrow nsolutions. com/aenergy. htm
      http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Green-Transporta tion/1975- 11-01/An- 1870-
      Solar-Powered- Steam-Engine. aspx?page= 2

      http://www.mikebrow nsolutions. com/solarblr. htm
      http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Boiling_point

    • William & Cynthia Stange
      http://www.solel.com/home/   Why isn t this used here in Texas? It seems there could be a micro-version of this used for home heating/generation with todays
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 9, 2008
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        Why isn't this used here in Texas? It seems there could be a micro-version of this used for home heating/generation with todays technology. I know in Geyserville,California ther has been a geothermal plant since the late fifties. What is standing in our way? In the above link "10 facts" 1% of the Saharan desert covered with CSP's could produce enough electricity for the world?!! This is big!! And clean!!
        William
        --- On Sun, 11/9/08, John Sherman <jesherman@...> wrote:
        From: John Sherman <jesherman@...>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] A true challenge: Solar Steam Engine
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com, hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:37 PM

        William:
           We could go back some 30 years plus to one of California's first large scale Solar Energy Plants called STEGS 1 and then STEGS 11. Solar collectors with sun tracking capability produces steam to drive a steam turbine driven generator.
         
           The same basic technology  with today's materials and control  systems will definitely be returning to the power market  and to the production of pure water very soon.
         
          John
         
        John E.Sherman
        Eagle Energy
        EarthLink Revolves Around You.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: William
        Sent: 11/9/2008 4:37:40 PM
        Subject: [hreg] A true challenge: Solar Steam Engine

        Always up for some mental calisthenics I thought this a great couple of
        links to check out. While I know if there was already a way to do this
        we would already know about it!
        Nevertheless,
        I have been tinkering with the idea for a solar hot water heater and
        a "tempering valve" is definitely needed as temps are not household
        levels. Why not increase temps,somehow? Series of preheated tubes to a
        highly intense series of magnifiers, I don't know. I thought it might
        lead to some interesting debates. Who knows what we could come up with!!

        All ears,
        Bill

        http://www.mikebrow nsolutions. com/aenergy. htm
        http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Green-Transporta tion/1975- 11-01/An- 1870-
        Solar-Powered- Steam-Engine. aspx?page= 2

        http://www.mikebrow nsolutions. com/solarblr. htm
        http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Boiling_point

      • Philip Timmons
        Mike Brown makes a couple of assumptive errors: 1.  That it would be desirable to use one of his piston style steam engines for such a task.  It is not. 
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 10, 2008
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          Mike Brown makes a couple of assumptive errors:

          1.  That it would be desirable to use one of his piston style steam engines for such a task.  It is not.  Turbines are simpler, cheaper, and have longer run-time life.
          2.  That a 9 foot diameter dish is useful for the purposes of comparison.  It is not.  That is fractional horsepower sized.

          Here is the math -- A square foot of reflector / concentrator can give around 5 to 6 watts per square foot.

          A 9 foot diameter dish, as per his example comes out about 64 square feet -- or about 318 watts available.

          While theory says 1 HP = 746 watts, in practice 1 HP is about 1000 watts. 

          So for that 9 foot dish, we are talking about the range of 1/3 HP. 

          Have not looked at his equipment is a few years, but I think Mike rates this machines in HP lumps of 5, 10, and 20 HP?

          For those numbers:

          5 HP = 1000 square feet -- or around a 36 foot diameter dish
          10 HP = 2000 square feet -- or around a 50 foot diameter dish
          20 HP = 4000 square feet - or around a 70 foot diameter dish.

          In all those, a dish shaped concentrator is probably not even desirable to use.  Typically long rows of mirrors are preferred.  See www.ausra.com for a functional model.




          --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Ed Sarlls <edsarlls@...> wrote:
          From: Ed Sarlls <edsarlls@...>
          Subject: Re: [hreg] A true challenge: Solar Steam Engine
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 5:21 PM

          Most of these are fairly small and they are not actually producing useful power. It is still an interesting project .
           
           
          I'm not sure that I believe his numbers but haven't checke them.
           
           
           
          Stirling engine - hydrogen, air, etc. in lieu of steam.
           
          Larger scale:
           
          Ed Sarlls
           
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: William
          Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:42 PM
          Subject: [hreg] A true challenge: Solar Steam Engine

          Always up for some mental calisthenics I thought this a great couple of
          links to check out. While I know if there was already a way to do this
          we would already know about it!
          Nevertheless,
          I have been tinkering with the idea for a solar hot water heater and
          a "tempering valve" is definitely needed as temps are not household
          levels. Why not increase temps,somehow? Series of preheated tubes to a
          highly intense series of magnifiers, I don't know. I thought it might
          lead to some interesting debates. Who knows what we could come up with!!

          All ears,
          Bill

          http://www.mikebrow nsolutions. com/aenergy. htm
          http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Green-Transporta tion/1975- 11-01/An- 1870-
          Solar-Powered- Steam-Engine. aspx?page= 2

          http://www.mikebrow nsolutions. com/solarblr. htm
          http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Boiling_point


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