Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

Expand Messages
  • Henry Haynes
    Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention….. If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 10, 2008

      Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention…..

       

      If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at certain times during the day, I understand the provider is required to “buy it back.”  Am I correct in assuming they buy it back at some wholesale rate?  They don’t actually offset it 1:1 against what has been purchased, do they?  However, if they are going by a straight meter reading, maybe they do.  Has anyone had any experiences w/ this?

       

      Henry


      No virus found in this outgoing message.
      Checked by AVG.
      Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM

    • phil6142@aol.com
      I have not experienced this personally myself but my understanding is that Net Metering (that is the 1 for 1 offset you mentioned) is the law in Texas so I
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 11, 2008
        I have not experienced this personally myself but my understanding is that Net Metering (that is the 1 for 1 offset you mentioned) is the law in Texas so I think for residential installations that is what they have to do.

        Phillip


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Henry Haynes <henryhh@...>
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 4:50 pm
        Subject: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

        Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention…..
         
        If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at certain times during the day, I understand the provider is required to “buy it back.”  Am I correct in assuming they buy it back at some wholesale rate?  They don’t actually offset it 1:1 against what has been purchased, do they?  However, if they a re going by a straight meter reading, maybe they do.  Has anyone had any experiences w/ this?
         
        Henry

        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG.
        Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM
      • Henry Haynes
        Thanks, Phillip. That seems logical because it would require a more sophisticated meter to track incoming vs. outgoing. HHH _____ From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 12, 2008

          Thanks, Phillip.  That seems logical because it would require a more sophisticated meter to track incoming vs. outgoing.

           

          HHH

           


          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of phil6142@...
          Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:12 AM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

           

          I have not experienced this personally myself but my understanding is that Net Metering (that is the 1 for 1 offset you mentioned) is the law in Texas so I think for residential installations that is what they have to do.

          Phillip


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Henry Haynes <henryhh@sbcglobal. net>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 4:50 pm
          Subject: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

          Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention…..

           

          If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at certain times during the day, I understand the provider is required to “buy it back.”  Am I correct in assuming they buy it back at some wholesale rate?  They don’t actually offset it 1:1 against what has been purchased, do they?  However, if they a re going by a straight meter reading, maybe they do.  Has anyone had any experiences w/ this?

           

          Henry

           

          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM


          It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the grade on AOL Shopping.


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1605 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 4:59 PM


          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1605 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 4:59 PM

        • Andrew McCalla
          Henry, Many different utilities address this in many different ways. For surplus energy production within a given day, different retail electricity providers
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 12, 2008

            Henry,

             

            Many different utilities address this in many different ways.

             

            For surplus energy production within a given day, different retail electricity providers might:

            • Credit you at full retail value
            • Credit you at wholesale value
            • Credit you at some other calculated value (below retail, above wholesale)
            • Not credit you at all (such as with a ratcheting, or détente, meter)

             

            For surplus energy product at the end of the billing cycle (should a system ever produce a net surplus), different retail electricity providers might:

            • Credit you at full retail value
            • Credit you at wholesale value
            • Credit you at some other calculated value (below retail, above wholesale)
            • Credit you towards your other utilities (water, wastewater, solid waste)
            • Not credit you at all

             

            I hope this helps clarify how unclear the net-metering landscape is in Texas .

             

            Andrew H. Mc Calla

            President

            NABCEP Certified Solar Installer

             

            Meridian Energy Systems, Inc. (TECL: 24461)

            2300 S. Lamar Blvd., Ste. 107

            Austin, Texas 78704

            Tel: (512) 448-0055

            Fax: (512) 448-0045

            andrew@...

            www.meridiansolar.com

             

             


            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Henry Haynes
            Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:41 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

             

            Thanks, Phillip.  That seems logical because it would require a more sophisticated meter to track incoming vs. outgoing.

             

            HHH

             


            From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
            Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:12 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

             

            I have not experienced this personally myself but my understanding is that Net Metering (that is the 1 for 1 offset you mentioned) is the law in Texas so I think for residential installations that is what they have to do.

            Phillip


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Henry Haynes <henryhh@sbcglobal. net>
            To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 4:50 pm
            Subject: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

            Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention…..

             

            If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at certain times during the day, I understand the provider is required to “buy it back.”  Am I correct in assuming they buy it back at some wholesale rate?  They don’t actually offset it 1:1 against what has been purchased, do they?  However, if they a re going by a straight meter reading, maybe they do.  Has anyone had any experiences w/ this?

             

            Henry

             

            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG.
            Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM


            It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the grade on AOL Shopping.

             

            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG.
            Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1605 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 4:59 PM

             

            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG.
            Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1605 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 4:59 PM


            __________ NOD32 3348 (20080812) Information __________

            This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
            http://www.eset.com

          • Henry H Haynes
            Andrew: I appreciate your input. I think you came out to my house (2535 Swift Blvd., Houston) to look at the feasibility of installing a pv system. When the
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 12, 2008
              Andrew:

              I appreciate your input.

              I think you came out to my house (2535 Swift Blvd., Houston) to look at the feasibility of installing a pv system.  When the Senate & House "TexSun" bills got killed I decided to wait.  Since my electric rate has gone from $0.125 to $0.205/kwh  since the beginning of the year my interest has been rekindled.

              Andrew McCalla <andrew@...> wrote:
              Henry,
               
              Many different utilities address this in many different ways.
               
              For surplus energy production within a given day, different retail electricity providers might:
              • Credit you at full retail value
              • Credit you at wholesale value
              • Credit you at some other calculated value (below retail, above wholesale)
              • Not credit you at all (such as with a ratcheting, or détente, meter)
               
              For surplus energy product at the end of the billing cycle (should a system ever produce a net surplus), different retail electricity providers might:
              • Credit you at full retail value
              • Credit you at wholesale value
              • Credit you at some other calculated value (below retail, above wholesale)
              • Credit you towards your other utilities (water, wastewater, solid waste)
              • Not credit you at all
               
              I hope this helps clarify how unclear the net-metering landscape is in Texas .
               
              Andrew H. Mc Calla
              President
              NABCEP Certified Solar Installer
               
              Meridian Energy Systems, Inc. (TECL: 24461)
              2300 S. Lamar Blvd., Ste. 107
              Austin, Texas 78704
              Tel: (512) 448-0055
              Fax: (512) 448-0045
               
               

              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Henry Haynes
              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:41 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell
               
              Thanks, Phillip.  That seems logical because it would require a more sophisticated meter to track incoming vs. outgoing.
               
              HHH
               

              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:12 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell
               
              I have not experienced this personally myself but my understanding is that Net Metering (that is the 1 for 1 offset you mentioned) is the law in Texas so I think for residential installations that is what they have to do.

              Phillip


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Henry Haynes <henryhh@sbcglobal. net>
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 4:50 pm
              Subject: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell
              Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention…..
               
              If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at certain times during the day, I understand the provider is required to “buy it back.”  Am I correct in assuming they buy it back at some wholesale rate?  They don’t actually offset it 1:1 against what has been purchased, do they?  However, if they a re going by a straight meter reading, maybe they do.  Has anyone had any experiences w/ this?
               
              Henry
               
              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM

              It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the grade on AOL Shopping.
               
              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1605 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 4:59 PM
               
              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1605 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 4:59 PM

              __________ NOD32 3348 (20080812) Information __________

              This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
              http://www.eset. com

            • Philip Timmons
              In Texas there are a couple of approaches.  I have seen the details from both side of the meter (EE working with both utilities and consumers). One way, as
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 15, 2008
                In Texas there are a couple of approaches.  I have seen the details from both side of the meter (EE working with both utilities and consumers).

                One way, as discussed is "net metering."  On a periodic basis -- typically monthly -- all electricity used - (minus) all electricity sent back up to the grid is totaled up.  If you used more than sent up to the grid you are billed for that net usage.  If you send up more than you used, you are not credited for the surplus, and you still pay the connection/meter fee.

                A more complex system in some areas are the dual-meter systems.  I have seen this in Co-op areas that are not regulated by the state the way the big boys are.  This method requires two meters (and therefore two connection/meter fees), and often a dedicated phone or communication line back to the co-op (again another monthly fee).  Means that fees alone consume $75 to $100 every month, before you can break even. 

                Under the dual meter game, while the incoming meter charges you at full retail -- typically around 13 to 17 cents a kWh now?   The outgoing, or producing meter "pays" you at what is called the "avoided cost rate, which is about 2 to 4 cents a kWh last time I looked.  Avoided cost is the cost of fuel (only) that was not consumed in generating the power.  As the rest of the capital and maintenance cost of generation, the grid, and business costs still exist, which are part of retail cost, so the co-op does not want small producers free-loading them having to "buy back" power at retail price, as well.  

                After wandering in the dual meter game, most folks in co-op areas are thankful if they can just negotiate net-metering with their co-op and send the surplus power away and are happy with that..

                So while the net metering scheme may seem like it is getting surplus power back for "free" from you, that is not why the big utilities do it.  It is because they are making so much money from getting to screw most everyone in Texas, they do not care about the freaks and geeks who want to do the home sized systems, that tend to feed into the peak demand time of the day, anyway.  They are playing in Billions of Dollars and the few folks playing in the small hundreds just do not matter.  The big boys just want to put on a happy face and keep making money.  So  they just want to smile and wave to you as they pass by on the highway, while driving to the bank with everyone else's money.

                Some states that have had traditionally higher electric prices -- NY and CA come to mind -- usually have some combination of this where the net metering system actually sends you a payment for surplus power you send. 

                But as Texas sort of tends to be a Corporat-ocracy, I would not expect actual payment to small time folks, anytime soon.  Power companies make money selling you power, not buying it from you. 




                --- On Tue, 8/12/08, phil6142@... <phil6142@...> wrote:
                From: phil6142@... <phil6142@...>
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 1:11 AM

                I have not experienced this personally myself but my understanding is that Net Metering (that is the 1 for 1 offset you mentioned) is the law in Texas so I think for residential installations that is what they have to do.

                Phillip


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Henry Haynes <henryhh@sbcglobal. net>
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 4:50 pm
                Subject: [hreg] Electric rates: purchase vs. sell

                Another question that has probably been covered while I wasn’t paying attention…..
                 
                If a pv system produces enough electricity to reverse the meter at certain times during the day, I understand the provider is required to “buy it back.”  Am I correct in assuming they buy it back at some wholesale rate?  They don’t actually offset it 1:1 against what has been purchased, do they?  However, if they a re going by a straight meter reading, maybe they do.  Has anyone had any experiences w/ this?
                 
                Henry

                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG.
                Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM

              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.