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RE: [hreg] Re: List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America

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  • H.W. Bud Johnson
    Hello All: While many believe the military spends money on only means of mass destruction the reason we have our modern computers, internet, GPS, water
    Message 1 of 41 , Jul 3, 2008
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      Hello All:


      While many believe the military spends money on only means of mass destruction the reason we have our modern computers, internet, GPS, water purification systems, composite materials, etc. is because of DOD contracts.  Do you realize the DOD is spending tremendous sums on money on renewable energy?  The following is a summary of one recent contract:


      Champion Energy Services, LLC of Houston, Texas, is being awarded a firm fixed price, indefinite term utilities contract for $400,000,000 (estimated for 20 years -- actual costs are dependent on electricity usage). This action will provide for retail electric provider services –contractor will manage a strategic supply portfolio, to provide renewable and non-renewable electricity for Goodfellow AFB, Laughlin AFB, and Sheppard AFB, Texas in the deregulated market. At this time $70,000 has been obligated. AETC CONS/LGCD, Randolph AFB, Texas , is the contracting activity (FA3002-08-D--0026).


      Did you know that for years the DOD has been holding regular conferences to develop alternative fuels?  The following is from one such conference in 2006:


      Bio-Based Products Enhance National Security

      By Sgt. Sara Wood, USA
      American Forces Press Service

      WASHINGTON, Sept. 12, 2006 – The use of biological-based products is important to the nation’s economy and to national security, because these products help reduce America ’s dependence on foreign energy resources, the deputy secretary of defense said here today.

      The Defense Department is the largest purchaser of products in the federal government, and therefore has an opportunity to promote the use of bio-based products, many of which act as substitutes for products based on non-renewable natural resources like oil and natural gas, Gordon England said at the opening of a Pentagon showcase of bio-based products.

      “To be clear, this is not like the latest health food fad, where you go to a specialty shop and you buy a lot of additional expensive supplements and ingredients,” England said. “This is about substituting an equally effective product or approach to meet a requirement you have that may well end up costing less in the end.”

      DoD is pleased to lead the way in bio-based product use for the federal government, because these products make the country more secure by reducing America ’s dependence on foreign energy resources and are a key part of the department’s overall strategy, England said.

      “Our strategy also supports our long-term national security interests by protecting and preserving the environment for the future generations, so they can enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to the fullest here in America ,” he said.

      England noted that DoD facilities already are using bio-based products, such as soy-based cleaning solutions and, in some cases, are saving thousands of dollars.

      Bio-based products are composed of renewable products that are grown in America ’s fields and forests, including plant, animal and marine materials, Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns said at the showcase. These products not only reduce the country’s reliance on the world’s finite supply of fossil fuels, but also help the economy by promoting growth in rural America , he said.

      In order to reap the benefits of bio-based products, Congress has identified the developing bio-based industry for preferential treatment within the federal government, Johanns said. The U.S. Department of Agriculture is going through a process of screening and approving bio-based products. Once final rules are issued, federal agencies will be required to use these environmentally friendly products, he said.

      The Department of Agriculture has identified more than 170 items that are eligible to be included in the bio-based procurement program. A final rule was established in March to designate the first six bio-based items, Johanns said. These six items are found in at least 80 branded products found in the market today, including hydraulic fluids, floor coatings, bedding, linens and towels, he said. The department is working to advance another 50 items into formal clearance by the end of the year, he added.

      DoD already has made great strides in the bio-based products effort, and as the program moves forward, the department has enormous potential to influence the rest of the federal government, Johanns said. “The fact that you’re here today at this conference is a testament to what you’re doing here,” he said. “Our efforts to increase bio-based procurement have met great success so far.”

      The Pentagon showcase, scheduled to last through noon tomorrow, brings together members of the bio-based product industry and those in DoD who specify, buy and use commercial or industrial products. The showcase includes multiple product booths and a series of panel discussions on specific product categories, such as biodegradable industrial oils and lubricants, packaging materials, and hand-sanitation products.


      The federal government, mostly through the DOD, is spending billions of dollars a year on alternative energy sources.  There is no doubt the efficiency of the procurement contracts can be improved if the FAR regulations were changed.  Today the emphasis with DOD is performance based contracts in lieu of the past practice of time & materials.  Progress is being made and with more capitalism, where risk is rewarded, this country can be more efficient.

      H.W. Bud Johnson

      Remedial Operations Group, Inc.

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Shepard
      Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 9:23 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America


      I guess I have to second the request to return on topic. But I can't help myself when I add that I was never more proud of this country than when I witnessed us endeavor as a nation to better ourselves with education, scientific research and exploration of the ocean and space.  Our victories and defeat in war do not inspire any confidence, dedication or patriotism.  If our government would devote a fraction of the Pentagon's budget, finance and effort on our own issues (like energy, exploration and sustainable design) we would be much better off as a country and as a people.  We should be aggressively leading the way in peaceful pursuits not as an aggressive global force.  These are just the opinions and sentiments of a US patriot.






      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Sandi Booth <sandibooth@hotmail. com>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:06:26 AM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America

      Alright guys....I'm a veteran too, but let's get back on track.  Choose another venue for this.

      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      From: jack_wagner@ symantec. com
      Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:00:21 +0000
      Subject: [hreg] Re: List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America

      Some additional quotes from TJ for those interested in our founding

      -"Taste cannot be controlled by law. "

      -"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent
      of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "

      -"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling
      alliances with none. "

      -"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never
      was and never will be. "

      -"Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a
      newspaper. "

      -"Banking establishments are more dangerous to liberty than standing
      armies. "

      -"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the
      only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. "

      -"Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of
      government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow
      operations, perverted it into tyranny. "

      -"The spirit of resistance is so valuable on certain occasions that
      I wish it to be always kept alive. "

      -"Power is not alluring to pure minds. "

      -"Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom. "

      -"I am mortified to be told that, in the United States of America,
      the sale of a book can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal
      inquiry too. "

      -"I swear eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the
      mind of man. "

      -"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
      corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a
      trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country. "

      -"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
      ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. "

      -"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
      government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense
      of taking care of them. "

      -"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
      liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."

      -"Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people. "

      -"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep
      and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against
      tyranny in government. "

      -"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of
      liberty. "

      -"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the
      government fears the people, there is liberty. "

      --- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, "J P Malone" <JPMALONE@.. .> wrote:

      > We said, Kim.
      > As a combat veteran of Vietnam
      I believe, as Thomas Jefferson
      said, “dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”
      > Stifling opinions is un-American.
      > From:
      ymailto="mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
      Of Garth & Kim Travis
      > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 7:22 AM
      > To:
      ymailto="mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com">hreg@yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [hreg] List owners note : was Why can't we do this in
      > Greetings,
      > This is not a veterans list, or a pro American list. This is a
      > renewable energy list, and I don't care where the idea comes from,
      if it
      > is good, we should use it. No country or person is so perfect they
      > can't learn from others. And I have read the writing of the
      > fathers, they believed that questioning our government was an
      > Responsibility and the only way to keep despotism at bay.
      > However, this thread needs to be stopped, since the name calling
      > started. Discussing the variety of ways to solve problems from
      > the world is okay. Kindly keep the name calling out of it.
      > Also, how about some manners on this list, such as trimming posts?
      > Bright Blessings,
      > Kim
      > List Owner
      > HYPERLINK "mailto:tstranger% 40garlandind. com"tstranger@ ...
      > > Moderators? Any chance for intervention here?
      > > I don't know how many other veterans are on this list and feel
      the way I
      > > do, but if this is allowed to continue then I'll be off the list
      > > tonight.
      > >
      > >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG.
      > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1531 - Release Date:
      7/2/2008 7:02 PM
      > No virus found in this outgoing message.
      > Checked by AVG.
      > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1531 - Release Date:
      7/2/2008 7:02 PM


      Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary!


      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
      Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1531 - Release Date: 7/2/2008 7:02 PM

    • evelyn sardina
      Your efforts are appreciated.... Thanks! ... From: George J. Strnad Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Trimming posts was : List owners note :
      Message 41 of 41 , Jul 11, 2008
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        Your efforts are appreciated.... Thanks!

        --- On Fri, 7/11/08, George J. Strnad <streamline@...> wrote:
        From: George J. Strnad <streamline@...>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Trimming posts was : List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 7:43 PM

        Both are available to be used.  This is NOT meant to divide this group.  Not at all.  I hope it is not coming across as such.  It is totally intended as uniting both groups, making it easier to modify/moderate/ view/access for everyone.  I saw a person who was having a hard time, and offered help.  It is available for all.  You all can ask ANY forums moderator, there is ZERO $$$ gained from having a Forums.   It is solely to bring this group together, and more cohesive.   I am working on an update to the Forums as we speak, I think there may be a version of it that can be low bandwidth.

        Please do not mistake this as anything else except help.  I feel a bit villified for trying to be a nice guy.  If you don't like it,  or want it changed, just let us know.  If you want to moderate,  just let us know..  Times are moving forward, we are just facilitating that.

        I hope that I am clear about my intentions.   You all are my colleagues so, I am trying to approach you as such with my efforts.


        --- On Sat, 7/12/08, evelyn sardina <evelynsardina@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        From: evelyn sardina <evelynsardina@ yahoo.com>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Trimming posts was : List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 12:23 AM

        I like it too... If anyone wants to join the other forum then it's all good. I say keep it like it is.

        --- On Fri, 7/11/08, Robert Johnston <junk1@plastability. com> wrote:
        From: Robert Johnston <junk1@plastability. com>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Re: Trimming posts was : List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 7:19 PM

        I’m perfectly happy with the existing arrangement.


        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
        Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:31 AM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Trimming posts was : List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America


        I will contact the alternateenergycent ral.com webmaster about setting up the HREG space through their forums and giving me moderator access I will let you know when it is done.  I do not want to divide the group I was just offering help since you asked for it, if everyone is happy to stay here I am fine with that too. 

        I will let you know when the other forum is ready.


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@txcyber. com>
        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 6:13 am
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Trimming posts was : List owners note : was Why can't we do this in America


        This is fine with me. You will be the new list owner on the new format.
        May I suggest you set up the site and post the invitation to this
        group. If the majority of people move their subscription to the new
        forum, I will shut down this list. Please make it clear, that when
        subscribing to the new list, they should drop their membership from this
        list so we know who wants the new format.

        I will send out the invitation to all the members that are no mail but
        that receive special notices, when you are ready.

        Bright Blessings,

        phil6142@aol. com wrote:
        > Actually in my last post I did volunteer to moderate it if it was
        > switched to a more user friendly forum than yahoo. The posts have been
        > trimmed so we will have to back to old emails to see:
        > "I also would be willing to moderate a forum hosted on a site like
        > alternateenergycent ral.com but not on yahoo (I have heard how difficult
        > yahoo is for the moderator). The offer to move the discussion came not
        > because everyone wanted an upgrade but because you asked for help. If
        > you don't want help then by all means keep the forum wherever you want
        > it kept."
        > Phillip

        The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

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