RE: [hreg] Hydrogen from salt water
- Han,Follow any and all links to Iceland's energy production using geothermal. Iceland sits in the middle of a rift in the Atlantic, the resulting volcanic and steam vents they use to produce massive amounts of electricity. In that, they have ample electricity to separate hydrogen from oxygen. Their byproduct is steam/water used in very large greenhouses to produce Icelandic tomatos !!! It seems to me that California has a geothermal generating plant that's been operating since the fifties in Geyserville, Calif. Let alone Hawaii, Cascade mountains, Yellowstone Nat. Park. Bill Stangehttp://www.afsa.org/fsj/dec03/sigfusson.pdf
"Ooi, Han S [NTK]" <han.ooi@...> wrote:Very fascinating stuff. It is reading about these things on the frontiers of energy that makes joining this group worthwhile.Would be interesting to see the efficiency of separating out hydrogen using this method versus the electrolysis of water.I personally see us in a future where the hydrogen is produced by either this method or electrolysis with the electricity coming from a combination of renewables and nuclear energy. Such would provide the best case scenario for converting the electric grid energy into transportation fuel while reusing existing infrastructure as much as possible. Sorry to the people on this group but nuclear is here to stay and grow.HanFrom: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of phil6142@aol. com
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:53 AM
To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [hreg] Hydrogen from salt waterI think this application has good potential in the medical field with the initial aim of the research. Their goal was to get metal atoms to selectively attach to cancer cells then use the radio frequency to heat up the metal and destroy the cancer cells. This seems brilliant as long as the whole bursting into flames thing can be controlled. The website states that salt water is a "fuel" but as Robert pointed out the salt water is not a fuel since more energy is put into it than is recovered from it. It is simply an energy medium. So then you have to ask is this process more efficient (or does it have the potential to be more efficient) than electrolysis were electrical energy is put into salt water and hydrogen and oxygen are produced and can be captured and stored. This process does not seem to be able to capture and store the hydrogen only burn it on the spot.
An interesting thing to consider is that when hydrogen is burnt the flame is colorless. In the video of this you can clearly seem a bright yellow flame indicating that while they may be burning some hydrogen they are definately burning something else also. I imagine it is the sodium in the salt water. Since the the design of the radio waves is to heat up metal it would make sense that it would preferentially (sp) heat the sodium this is also indicated by the extreme heat of the flame (3000 F). I don't know the energy balance for burning sodium or the environmental implications but I don't understand why they are not emphasizing this aspect of the research, unless perhaps it is a funding thing and it is easier to get funding following the "hydrogen hype".
If it does turn out that they are able to get out extra energy from the sodium and the salt water is truly a "fuel" I fear for our oceans for while they main seem vast and in exhaustable now that is what people not too long ago thought about oil. One of the nice things about using salt water to produce hydrogen from electricity is that this hydrogen is then converted back to water with the only net loss being energy and not materials. If this energy is produced renewably (i.e. PV, wind, etc) then you have something sustainable (as long as we have sun anyway).
As technology developers we have to answer two main questions: 1) How do we produce energy? and 2) How do we store that energy for on demand use? Hydrogen is nothing but an energy storage medium like a battery, when we produce energy we need to store it for use in transportation, heating, etc we all know the many uses we have for energy. There are many good arguements on both sides for which storage medium is best. As for me I am betting on hydrogen in the long run as its potential is for clean storage and burning seem to me to be the highest. Admittedly there are many technological advances that are required but I am confident we can achieve them.
I don't know if anyone is interested in my little discourse but I feel better having written it.
From: pencil1959 <junk1@plastability. com>
To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:22 pm
Subject: [hreg] Hydrogen from salt waterInteresting news item on "burning salt water" with RF exposure.
Actually, burning the hydrogen from it. Rustum Roy is a highly
reputable scientist so this looks real. NOTE: This is NOT violating
thermodynamic laws--more energy goes into the RF field than is
recovered from burning. Nevertheless, an interesting alternative
approach to hydrogen fuel and maybe some clever inventor can figure out
how to put it to use in a value-creating manner.
http://www.breitbar t.com/article. php?id=D8RIRI600&show_article= 1
I wonder if wind power could be used with this concept? i.e., to
directly drive the RF field generator.
Robert JohnstonEmail and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!