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Re: [hreg] That's it

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  • Jim & Janet
    Please correct your termanology; it the Bush policies, not Bush the man, that are despised. Jim Duncan ... From: Robert Johnston To: hreg@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 47 , Sep 16, 2007
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      Please correct your termanology; it the Bush policies, not Bush the man, that are despised.
      Jim Duncan
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:33 AM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] That's it

      I realize there are a lot of Bush-haters who subscribe to the HREG mail list, but what do these posts have to do with renewable energy, especially renewable energy technology?

      For what it’s worth, LA Times reported the official Iraqi government figure as 1773 civilian fatalities in August.  http://www.latimes. com/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-violence1sep0 1,0,3069115. story?coll= la-home-center   That’s an order of magnitude less than the figure cited below.  According to nationmaster. com, the Iraqi population in July was estimated to be 27,499,638.  Thus, the August deaths translate to a 0.077% per year death rate , or 77 deaths per 100,000 population.  For comparison, in 2005 the U.S. had 15 fatalities per 100,000 population due to motor vehicle accidents (http://www-fars. nhtsa.dot. gov/Main/ index.aspx ).  Also for comparison, the number of traffic related fatalities in Iran are predicted by Iranian police to be 31,000 this year (http://www.iranmani a.com/News/ ArticleView/ Default.asp? ArchiveNews= Yes&NewsCode=43663&NewsKind=CurrentAff airs ) against a population of 65,397,521 (www.worldstatesmen. org), for a traffic fatality rate of 47 per 100,000 population.  While the number of violent deaths in Iraq is tragic, so is the high number of automobile related fatalities in Iran .  If 77 per 100,000 is a “genocide”, is 47 per 100,000 also a “genocide”?  What about 15?

      An antiwar website, http://www.antiwar. com/casualties/ , gives the U.S. casualties in both Iraq and Afghanistan as 3780 since 3/19/03, or approximately 840/year.  I couldn’t find an average troop level during that time, but let’s assume 150,000 ( Iraq + Afghanistan ), which I believe is conservative.  That’s 560 fatalities per 100,000 troops.  (And, as has been pointed out by many reporters, injury rates are disproportionately high due to better body armor minimizing fatalities).  Clearly, at current (August) mortality rates, the Iraqis are dying from war-related violence at a rate much lower than the Americans.  Thus, if we want to talk about “genocide”, we need to keep in perspective the suffering the “perpetrators” (according to anti-war activitists) are enduring.

      Don’t read me wrong—I’m not trying to justify violent death.  War stinks.  But wars and the politics that underlie them are complex.  Most of the Iraqi casualties are self-inflicted, due to a low-grade civil war, with plenty of support coming from Iran to support certain violent Shia groups.  It is worth remembering why we are there.  And it is worth remembering that if the U.S. were to walk away, the “genocide” in Iraq would likely become a fullblown civil war with real genocide occurring, and very possibly a regional conflict with even more suffering.  Iran would become dominant, and a domino effect on other regional governments is hard to predict but could dramatically alter the world energy equation.

      I’m not arguing to justify the war, but just to say:  (1) the figures noted below are not supported by other news sources; (2) the Iraqi death rate from war violence is not much higher than the Iranian death rate from traffic accidents; (3) we should be careful what we call a “genocide”; (4) U.S. troop casualty rates far exceed the Iraqi war casualty rates on a per capita basis. 

      Finally, since none of this has to do with renewable energy technology, why don’t we leave the politics out of this newsgroup and focus on technology?

      Robert Johnston

      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Susan Modikoane
      Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:06 AM
      To: houstonpeakoil@ lists.riseup. net; hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [hreg] That's it

      This from CBS news though it was just discussed on MSNBC:

      "Texas' Hunt Oil Co. and Kurdistan's regional government said they have signed a production-sharing contract for petroleum exploration in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq, the first such deal since the Kurds passed their own oil and gas law in August.

      A Hunt subsidiary, Hunt Oil Co. of the Kurdistan Region, will begin geological survey and seismic work by the end of 2007 and hopes to drill an exploration well in 2008, the parties said in a news release Saturday. Terms of the deal were not disclosed. ... "We're very pleased to have the opportunity to be a part of these landmark events by actively participating in the establishment of the petroleum industry," Ray L. Hunt, Hunt's CEO, said in a statement.

      Hunt, who is also on the board of Halliburton, has been a key fundraiser for President George W. Bush, who named him to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board."

      According to MSNBC and Krugman at the NYT, as a member of the Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, Ray Hunt would have had full access to all of the Iraq intelligence there is to be had. Since the central Iraqi government has yet to pass the oil revenue sharing legislation that the Bush administration has been pushing for since they were elected, you have to think this private deal between Hunt Oil and the Kurds mayl totally fracture Iraq .

      Meanwhile, this week it was reported in Pacifica that the Tigress River is bloated with corpses.  There are 150,000 refugees from Southern Iraq living in a Baghdad slum with no water or electricity.  The only water is poluted water from a hose.  Yesterday it was reported on CNN that there were 17,000 civilians killed in Iraq in August, alone.  They showed the bodies lined up for as far as the eye could see, waiting to be claimed.  There were volunteers who would go and take their photos and number them before wrapping them in a sheet and burying them.  This they did at great personal risk.

      Having this knowledge, I cannot continue to tolerate this genocide.  From now on, I'm jamming the phone lines of all those responsible until this policy is changed.  Whether it's my political representatives or the offices of the private contractors and corporations profiting from this. 

      I hope you'll join me in my fly on shit campaign.


      Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
      Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

    • anniemktx
      One of the members of our Low Carbon Diet class said she hangs clothes inside to dry. That provides the added benefit of humidifying the house a little. A
      Message 47 of 47 , Oct 11, 2007
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        One of the members of our Low Carbon Diet class said she hangs
        clothes inside to dry. That provides the added benefit of
        humidifying the house a little. A good thing to try for people who
        haven't had luck drying outside. I myself, like Lunce, love those
        ozone smelling sheets!


        In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
        > Greetings,
        > I haven't been to a meeting of HREG for a long time, but the green
        > symposium last February sure made me sick, the majority of the
        > were very fragrant. It would be wonderful if you are correct.
        > Bright Blessings,
        > Kim
        > Ariel Thomann wrote:
        > > Surely nobody on this list is still using those little sheets!
        > >
        > > Ariel
        > > - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one
        another, since
        > > otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
        > > - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy.
        Think ahead 7
        > > generations.
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > >> Greetings,
        > >> Well said Bashir. Not only that, they smell nice without using
        the poisonous
        > >> chemicals of dryer sheets.
        > >> Bright Blessings,
        > >> Kim
        > >>
        > >>
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