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RE: [hreg] ENERGY COSTS IN TEXAS

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  • Bruce Pullig
    Ariel, I see no reason to be so rude towards someone who asks questions. You owe him an apology! Most questions asked here could be googled, but would you get
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 20, 2007
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      Ariel,

      I see no reason to be so rude towards someone who asks questions.
      You owe him an apology!
      Most questions asked here could be googled, but would you get the correct
      answer?
      Please refrain from being so condescending next time someone asks a valid
      question.

      Your tagline says, "We are all Human beings here together. We have to help
      one another, since otherwise there is NO ONE who will help."
      But your response is to the contrary.

      Bruce

      -.- -.. ..... -.-. ..-. --
      Bruce Pullig
      bruce@...
      http://www.pullig.com
      Proverbs 28:20 A faithful man shall abound with blessings; But he that
      maketh haste to be rich shall not be unpunished.
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Ariel Thomann
      > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:10 AM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [hreg] ENERGY COSTS IN TEXAS
      >
      > I googled for "electricity rates by state" and they have 41
      > million hits; among
      > the very first is
      > http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/stateelectricityprice.htm
      > and you may want to look there. Any reason you could not have
      > done that much
      > for yourself? I'm glad to help this way, but please don't be
      > so help-less in
      > the first place.
      >
      > Ariel
      > - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one
      > another, since
      > otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
      > - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy.
      > Think ahead 7
      > generations.
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > > I had someone tell me that Texas has the highest electrical
      > rates in country.
      > > I find this hard to believe. Does anyone know how Texas
      > ranks compared to
      > > other states for overall electrical costs?
      > >
      > > George
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Garth & Kim Travis
      Greetings, First, I would like to know what you call advertising, since it is not allowed on this list. I don t know how you figure out what is related to
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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        Greetings,

        First, I would like to know what you call advertising, since it is not
        allowed on this list. I don't know how you figure out what is related
        to sustainable, renewable energy, but I have been watching, there have
        been almost no off topic posts. And I do watch. Just plain energy
        costs are almost off topic and only on topic in relation to the
        promotion of renewable energy.

        Your question was poorly framed and your information was not placed for
        people to know at what level to talk to you. You posted no
        introduction, no introducing comments, just a question with no
        information about what you already knew. Had you written your second
        letter, containing vital information in the first place, there would
        have been no problem. The chiding was of a very gentle nature, it
        should not have offended. I don't believe that Ariel owes anyone an
        apology.

        This list is not about energy costs in dollars, it is about energy costs
        in environmental damage, and embodied energy in various systems. It is
        about all kinds of energy, not just electricity. It is not about who
        has the best electricity rates, but who has the greenest electricity at
        the best rate.


        Bright Blessings,
        Kim Travis,
        List Owner

        gegaskill wrote:
        > Hi ladies and gentlemen,
        >
        > I thought this was a forum for asking questions of people interested
        > in energy costs and to get some informed answers. I've read all the
        > posts with people advertising and talking about things not related to
        > energy and not said anything. I ask one question which I thought
        > would be easy for the group and get blasted.
        >
        > I did google it and looked at several sites of the many sites and
        > realized it would probably take a while to find true numbers. I
        > thought well this group probably knows the answer immediately.
        >
        > Well you do not have to wonder about any more questions from me
        > because I'm unsubscribing. Thanks to the past interesting info from
        > people that did have some information on energy. Otherwise I do not
        > need to waste my time with this.
        >
        > George
        >
      • phil6142@aol.com
        It seems to me that energy costs are of paramount importance to this forum.  That is what makes renewable energy use by most people possible.  Many of us who
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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          It seems to me that energy costs are of paramount importance to this forum.  That is what makes renewable energy use by most people possible.  Many of us who work in renewable energy technology spend a great deal of our time working to bring down the cost of clean energy and knowledge of the cost of "dirty" energy is essential to bringing real products to consumers. 

          I would like to say thanks to Jim and Bashir for providing some relevant and useful information, and thanks to George for bringing it up. 

          I did not think the original comment was that rude persay but completely unneccessary.  In my experience a "quick google search" turns up relatively little useful information in comparison to input from a real person who is engaged in working with or studying a particular area. 

          Wouldn't it make sense to assume that if a person has taken the time to type up a whole email that they have probably also taken the time to type a couple words in a google search bar and are now looking for more information from people who have knowledge of and experience with a particular topic.  If all the information you know on a subject came from a 5 minute google search why not just sit back and wait for someone who has more experience in the area to reply to the question.

          Anyone can preform a google search without this forum, hopefully this forum can provide a way to connect people who have knowledge to people who are seeking knowledge. 

          Just my thoughts, I think most times this group is pretty responsive to questions and the communications here have definately helped to advance my understanding of many renewable energy topics.

          Phillip Hamilton



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Garth & Kim Travis
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 7:16 am
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: ENERGY COSTS IN TEXAS

          Greetings,

          First, I would like to know what you call advertising, since it is not
          allowed on this list. I don't know how you figure out what is related
          to sustainable, renewable energy, but I have been watching, there have
          been almost no off topic posts. And I do watch. Just plain energy
          costs are almost off topic and only on topic in relation to the
          promotion of renewable energy.

          Your question was poorly framed and your information was not placed for
          people to know at what level to talk to you. You posted no
          introduction, no introducing comments, just a question with no
          information about what you already knew. Had you written your second
          letter, containing vital information in the first place, there would
          have been no problem. The chiding was of a very gentle nature, it
          should not have offended. I don't believe that Ariel owes anyone an
          apology.

          This list is not about energy costs in dollars, it is about energy costs
          in environmental damage, and embodied energy in various systems. It is
          about all kinds of energy, not just electricity. It is not about who
          has the best electricity rates, but who has the greenest electricity at
          the best rate.

          Bright Blessings,
          Kim Travis,
          List Owner

          gegaskill wrote:
          > Hi ladies and gentlemen,
          >
          > I thought this was a forum for asking questions of people interested
          > in energy costs and to get some informed answers. I've read all the
          > posts with people advertising and talking about things not related to
          > energy and not said anything. I ask one question which I thought
          > would be easy for the group and get blasted.
          >
          > I did google it and looked at several sites of the many sites and
          > realized it would probably take a while to find true numbers. I
          > thought well this group probably knows the answer immediately.
          >
          > Well you do not have to wonder about any more questions from me
          > because I'm unsubscribing. Thanks to the past interesting info from
          > people that did have some information on energy. Otherwise I do not
          > need to waste my time with this.
          >
          > George
          >

          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
        • Pete J. Carrasquillo
          Phillip, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I most times just read the messages, but have learned a tremendous amount of information about renewable
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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            Phillip,

            I couldn’t have said it better myself. I most times just read the messages, but have learned a tremendous amount of information about renewable energy. Things related to this city and region that I would have never learned doing a Google search.

             

            Pete J. Carrasquillo

            Remax Suburban

            832-969-5685 Direct

            281-852-8900 Office

            832-644-2572 Fax

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of phil6142@...
            Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:15 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: ENERGY COSTS IN TEXAS

             

            It seems to me that energy costs are of paramount importance to this forum.  That is what makes renewable energy use by most people possible.  Many of us who work in renewable energy technology spend a great deal of our time working to bring down the cost of clean energy and knowledge of the cost of "dirty" energy is essential to bringing real products to consumers. 

            I would like to say thanks to Jim and Bashir for providing some relevant and useful information, and thanks to George for bringing it up. 

            I did not think the original comment was that rude persay but completely unneccessary.  In my experience a "quick google search" turns up relatively little useful information in comparison to input from a real person who is engaged in working with or studying a particular area. 

            Wouldn't it make sense to assume that if a person has taken the time to type up a whole email that they have probably also taken the time to type a couple words in a google search bar and are now looking for more information from people who have knowledge of and experience with a particular topic.  If all the information you know on a subject came from a 5 minute google search why not just sit back and wait for someone who has more experience in the area to reply to the question.

            Anyone can preform a google search without this forum, hopefully this forum can provide a way to connect people who have knowledge to people who are seeking knowledge. 

            Just my thoughts, I think most times this group is pretty responsive to questions and the communications here have definately helped to advance my understanding of many renewable energy topics.

            Phillip Hamilton



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Garth Kim Travis
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 7:16 am
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: ENERGY COSTS IN TEXAS

            Greetings,

            First, I would like to know what you call advertising, since it is not
            allowed on this list. I don't know how you figure out what is related
            to sustainable, renewable energy, but I have been watching, there have
            been almost no off topic posts. And I do watch. Just plain energy
            costs are almost off topic and only on topic in relation to the
            promotion of renewable energy.

            Your question was poorly framed and your information was not placed for
            people to know at what level to talk to you. You posted no
            introduction, no introducing comments, just a question with no
            information about what you already knew. Had you written your second
            letter, containing vital information in the first place, there would
            have been no problem. The chiding was of a very gentle nature, it
            should not have offended. I don't believe that Ariel owes anyone an
            apology.

            This list is not about energy costs in dollars, it is about energy costs
            in environmental damage, and embodied energy in various systems. It is
            about all kinds of energy, not just electricity. It is not about who
            has the best electricity rates, but who has the greenest electricity at
            the best rate.

            Bright Blessings,
            Kim Travis,
            List Owner

            gegaskill wrote:

            > Hi ladies and gentlemen,
            >
            > I thought this was a forum for asking questions of people interested
            > in energy costs and to get some informed answers. I've read all the
            > posts with people advertising and talking about things not related to
            > energy and not said anything. I ask one question which I thought
            > would be easy for the group and get blasted.
            >
            > I did google it and looked at several sites of the many sites and
            > realized it would probably take a while to find true numbers. I
            > thought well this group probably knows the answer immediately.
            >
            > Well you do not have to wonder about any more questions from me
            > because I'm unsubscribing. Thanks to the past interesting info from
            > people that did have some information on energy. Otherwise I do not
            > need to waste my time with this.
            >
            > George
            >


            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

          • Bruce Pullig
            Telling him to try Google next time would have been sufficient, but calling names was NOT called for. Bruce -.- -.. ..... -.-. ..-. -- Bruce Pullig
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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              Telling him to try Google next time would have been sufficient, but calling names was NOT called for.

               

               

              Bruce

               

              -.-  -..  .....  -.-.  ..-.  --

              Bruce Pullig
              bruce@...

              http://www.pullig.com

              Proverbs 28:20 A faithful man shall abound with blessings; But he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be unpunished.

            • Garth & Kim Travis
              Greetings, I wonder how many of you have watched lists be destroyed by lazy people? It has become a fashion to join a list and let others do your research
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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                Greetings,

                I wonder how many of you have watched lists be destroyed by lazy people?
                It has become a fashion to join a list and let others do your research
                rather than to do it yourself. I am not saying that this gentleman was
                of this fashion, but it is causing real problems on many lists.

                Many lists have now put into place rules that state: Do not post a
                question until you have first searched the archives and the internet. I
                will not go that far on this list as I do believe that most people
                interested in renewable energy are better behaved than to need that kind
                of rule.

                I do appreciate the regulars on this list, who have been here a long
                time occassionaly playing list mom. A gentle chiding on a question that
                was written in the fashion of lazy people, is appropriate. Anyone not
                wanting to be chided, just has to state where they looked for
                information and what they didn't find.

                While the commercial people on this list may find the cost of energy,
                all by itself relevant to their sales, it is not all by itself relevant
                to our list. This list is about renewables and topics related to
                renewables such as discussions of how expensive dirty power would have
                to be to push most people into looking at renewables. The question
                posted was actually off topic and should have been posted as such. We
                do not slap anyone for posting off topic questions, especially not when
                they have the nettique to put 'off topic' in the subject line.

                If anyone would like to disagree with this, they can volunteer to
                moderate the list for a while. Otherwise, this topic is ended.

                Bright Blessings,
                Kim Travis
                List Owner




                Bruce Pullig wrote:
                > Telling him to try Google next time would have been sufficient, but
                > calling names was NOT called for.
                >
              • evelyn sardina
                Thank you for your valuable and informational reply! Bashir Syed wrote: Resources for Energy Efficiency ORGANIZATIONS:
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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                  Thank you for your valuable and informational reply!

                  Bashir Syed <bsyed@...> wrote:
                  Resources for Energy Efficiency
                  ORGANIZATIONS:
                  American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy: (202)429-8873; www.aceee.org
                  Find ways to save energy and learn about U.S. energy policies.
                  Energy Star Program: (888) 782-7937; www.energystar. gov
                  Learn about Energy Star-certified homes, and energy certified appliances.
                  Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Clearinghouse: www.eere.energy. gov
                  Find consumer information, tips for renters and recommendations for how much insulation to use in your climate,
                  FINANCIAL INCENTIVES:
                  Contact your utility or state energy office to learn more about local incentives. For information on federal tax credits go to www.energytaxincent ives.org
                  HOME ENERGY AUDITS
                  Residential Energy Services Network: (766)806-3448 www.natresnet. org/directory
                  Find energy auditors in your area.
                  Home Energy Saver: http://hes.lbl. gov
                  Take this web-based survey to get suggestions for improving efficiency.
                  ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****
                  Basic Solar Power Statistics:
                  Average home electricity use:
                  Typical home: 900 kWh per month; or 10,800 kWh per year.
                  Energy Efficient Home:  as little as 420 kWh per month; 5000 kWh per year
                  Estimated annual production per 1.0 kW of PV:
                  Amounts vary depending upon climate, latitude, local rates and PV  system specifics; to calculate production for your location, go to www.pvwatts. org
                  City/State                          Annual kWh              Value of PV Production
                                                             AC Production          (current local rate per kWh)
                  Phoenix , AZ                     1,617                                 $137     (8.5 cents)
                  Colorado Springs , Colo.   1,519                                 $128     (8.4 cents)
                  Miami , Fla.                       1,339                                 $121     (9.0 cents)
                  Topeka , Kan.                    1,310                                 $101     (7.7 cents)
                  Albany , N.Y.                    1,159                                 $168     (14.5 cents)
                  Seattle , Wash.                     970                                $  62      (6.4 cents)
                  Learn More About Easy Solar Power:
                  Watch the VIDEO ONLINE: Search for “Easy Solar Power” at www.MotherEarthNews .com , then scroll to the bottom of the article to watch solar expert Steve Heckeroth explain how building-integrated thin-film solar power works.
                  RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
                  www.dsireusa. org Spells out the rebates, loans, and other incentives available in each state for all renewable energy categories and for energy conservation.
                  www.homepower. com  Home Power magazine is an excellent resource for anyone who wants to learn more about solar or other renewable energy options. The website includes a directory of renewable energy dealers and installers.
                  www.nabcep.org  Find certified solar installers listed with the North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners.
                  www.pvwatts. org  Determines how much power a PV system will produce at your location and lists local utility electric rates.
                  www.dcpower- systems.com  Through this company you can locate a solar installer who can give you a price quote on a building-integrated solar project.
                  RECOMMENDED READING: “Got Sun? Go Solar” by Rex A. Ewing and Doug Pratt. This new book by two veteran solar experts provides a clear discussion of all the basic information homeowners need in order to choose a simple, grid-tied solar or wind system.
                  Tools for Calculating PV System Payback
                  Database of State Incentives for Renewable Energy  www.dsireusa. org
                  Find Solar: www.findsolar. com
                  Solar Energy Industries Association – Guide to Federal Tax Incentives
                  Andy Black’s post  of detailed information on calculating various scenarios:
                  Source:
                  1. Cheryl Long, “EASY SOLAR POWER,” pages 34 – 38, The Mother Earth News Guide To Homes, Summer 2007 [Cheryl Long is the editor-in-chief of Mother Earth News, and resides in Topeka , Kansas ]
                  2. Andy Black, “You Can AFFORD Solar Power,” pages 39 – 42,  The Mother Earth News Guide To Homes, Summer 2007.
                  $$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$
                  Bashir A. Syed
                  (Member: APS, ASES, ISES, IEEE, UCS and New York Academy of Sciences)
                  Vice President, R&D
                  Alt-EnergyTech, Inc.
                  1120 NASA Parkway, Suite 220W
                  Houston , TX 77058
                  Tel: 281-333-9889/ Fax: 281-461-1150
                  Cell: 713-560-6668
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: gegaskill
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:42 PM
                  Subject: [hreg] Re: ENERGY COSTS IN TEXAS

                  Hi ladies and gentlemen,

                  I thought this was a forum for asking questions of people interested
                  in energy costs and to get some informed answers. I've read all the
                  posts with people advertising and talking about things not related to
                  energy and not said anything. I ask one question which I thought
                  would be easy for the group and get blasted.

                  I did google it and looked at several sites of the many sites and
                  realized it would probably take a while to find true numbers. I
                  thought well this group probably knows the answer immediately.

                  Well you do not have to wonder about any more questions from me
                  because I'm unsubscribing. Thanks to the past interesting info from
                  people that did have some information on energy. Otherwise I do not
                  need to waste my time with this.

                  George
                  -- In hreg@yahoogroups. com, evelyn sardina <evelynsardina@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ariel,
                  > Does it ever occur to you that this is not a matter of being
                  helpless? This is a forum where people should be able to ask
                  questions without having to take an insult, but life is a mirror
                  isn't it? What is it about this question that offends you so much?
                  Sometimes I know the answer to a question but I ask it anyways, to
                  see what other people think. If we all google the answers to
                  everything, there wouldn't be much of a forum! Cheers, Evelyn
                  >
                  > Ariel Thomann <ajthomann@. ..> wrote:
                  > I googled for "electricity rates by state" and they have
                  41 million hits; among
                  > the very first is
                  http://www.eia. doe.gov/neic/ rankings/ stateelectricity price.htm
                  > and you may want to look there. Any reason you could not have done
                  that much
                  > for yourself? I'm glad to help this way, but please don't be so
                  help-less in
                  > the first place.
                  >
                  > Ariel
                  > - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one
                  another, since
                  > otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
                  > - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think
                  ahead 7
                  > generations.
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >
                  > > I had someone tell me that Texas has the highest electrical rates
                  in country.
                  > > I find this hard to believe. Does anyone know how Texas ranks
                  compared to
                  > > other states for overall electrical costs?
                  > >
                  > > George
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                  > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                  > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
                  >



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