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Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

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  • jmiggins
    I would recommend that all state agencies, local governments and city governments get their lighting act together first and lead by example. The saving is our
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 1 3:00 PM
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      I would recommend that all state agencies, local governments and city governments get their lighting act together first and lead by example. The saving is our money and then they can legislate from experience before telling everyone else what they can use.
       
      I am for light savings, believe me but lets speak from a perspective of experience.  I would not hesitate to say that millions could be saved by governments adopting clean and energy efficient lighting.  this is the greater good.
       
       
       
      John Miggins
      Harvest Solar Energy LLC
      "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
      1571 East 22 place, Tulsa OK 74114
      918-743-2299 office
      918-521-6223 Cell
      www.harvestsolar.net
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:28 AM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

      How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.

       Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have to burn to light it.

      David

    • Rob Rowland
      I don t see that as a viable alternative. Not really realistic. There are NO replacements for incandescent bulbs of certain sizes. Rob Rowland ... From:
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 1 4:53 PM
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        I don't see that as a viable alternative.  Not really realistic.  There are NO replacements for incandescent bulbs of certain sizes.
         
        Rob Rowland
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:28 AM
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

        How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.

         Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have to burn to light it.

        David

      • David Power
        I have yet to not find a CFL or Led replacement, did you have any in particular that you were looking for? With the $1.00 tax perhaps a change of fixture would
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 1 5:33 PM
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          I have yet to not find a CFL or Led replacement, did you have any in particular that you were looking for?

           

          With the $1.00 tax perhaps a change of fixture would then provide the right solution.

           

          David

           

           


           

          I don't see that as a viable alternative.  Not really realistic.  There are NO replacements for incandescent bulbs of certain sizes.

           

          Rob Rowland

        • Robert Johnston
          I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL s-typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)-vs. claimed 5-7 yrs-that I don t think they should be
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 4 5:55 AM
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            I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


            Robert

             


            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
            Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

             

            Greetings,
            But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
            you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
            eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
            time as is.
            Bright Blessings,
            Kim

            David Power wrote:

            >
            >
            > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
            > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
            >
            > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
            > to burn to light it.
            >
            >
            >
            > David
            >

          • William & Cynthia Stange
            A lot of problems with CFLs is the duration of use. CFLs like to be turned on and left on,ie. front porch lights, kitchen lighting that is used for extend
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 4 7:26 AM
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              A lot of problems with CFLs is the duration of use. CFLs like to be turned on and left on,ie. front porch lights, kitchen lighting that is used for extend periods. They (CFLs) do not like being turned on and less than 5 minutes (or less) turned back off, being that their burn in time has not been reached yet. They are not "instant on" lamps. Also any dimmers and/or timers (photo-cells, motion-sensors are not compatible with CFLs. There is always the likelihood of running into a batch of bad product, esp. from the big box stores. I have found that not only CFLs but incandescents as well are often seconds, or handled roughly when finding their way to store shelves. If you have continued problems have an electrician check all available neutral connections (grounded conductor) both in branch circuits as well as main conductor at your service panel. All fluorescent also like to be solidly grounded (bare or green wires). I currently have 5) 20 watt floodlight shaped (R-40) lamps that each puts out an equivalent of 75-85 watts and have been in place for 4 years. Hopefully I will be able to find a supplier from a more green perspective instead of relying on the big box stores. Your purchasing dollars I believe may be spent in a more positive manner.
                As an electrician of more than 28 years it's more than time to think about conservation and every one of us needs to be our own designer/engineer to the respect of reducing what we use. As with water conservation a leaky faucet, watering and appliance use contributes to the continued loss of our energies/resources. All the best, Bill Stange

              Robert Johnston <junk1@...> wrote:
              I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.

              Robert

              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
              Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?
              Greetings,
              But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
              you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
              eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
              time as is.
              Bright Blessings,
              Kim

              David Power wrote:
              >
              >
              > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
              > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
              >
              > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
              > to burn to light it.
              >
              >
              >
              > David
              >

            • jmiggins
              Robert you might have issues with your voltage or power quality at your dwelling. It is not unusual to have voltage swings from 117 to 134 volts depending
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 4 7:58 AM
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                Robert you might have issues with your voltage or power quality at your dwelling.  It is not unusual to have voltage swings from 117 to 134 volts depending onthe time of day and your space on the power line.  It is unusual for all the brands to have longevity problems, I think the common denominator might be some other issue.  I do agree with your point that they are not for everyone and every application.
                 
                There are small power conditioners that smooth out the power voltage, ;phase etc... and provide clean power, a good experiment would to plug of these in and then runthe bulbs off it to see if there is any difference.
                 
                all the best
                 
                 
                John Miggins
                Harvest Solar Energy LLC
                "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                1571 East 22 place, Tulsa OK 74114
                918-743-2299 office
                918-521-6223 Cell
                www.harvestsolar.net
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                Robert


                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                Greetings,
                But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                time as is.
                Bright Blessings,
                Kim

                David Power wrote:
                >
                >
                > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                >
                > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                > to burn to light it.
                >
                >
                >
                > David
                >


                Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - Release Date: 2/21/2007 3:19 PM
              • Michael Ewert
                I ve had trouble with short life on some too, but so far the ones I got from John Miggins and from Lighting Unlimited are going strong. Does anyone know what
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 4 12:59 PM
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                  I’ve had trouble with short life on some too, but so far the ones I got from John Miggins and from Lighting Unlimited are going strong.  Does anyone know what Consumer Reports says about CFLs?

                   


                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Johnston
                  Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                   

                  I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                  Robert

                   


                  From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                   

                  Greetings,
                  But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                  you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                  eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                  time as is.
                  Bright Blessings,
                  Kim

                  David Power wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                  > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                  >
                  > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                  > to burn to light it.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > David
                  >

                • Rob Rowland
                  I have several areas of the house where I use CFLs. When they burn out (which is frequent) I just call the manufacturer and then send me a new one. So far
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 4 5:59 PM
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                    I have several areas of the house where I use CFLs.  When they burn out (which is frequent) I just call the manufacturer and then send me a new one.  So far most of the failures have been from overheating of some material inside the ballast that ends up oozing out.  I have not had any fires (thank goodness), but it looks like the potential is there.
                     
                    Rob Rowland
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:59 PM
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                    I’ve had trouble with short life on some too, but so far the ones I got from John Miggins and from Lighting Unlimited are going strong.  Does anyone know what Consumer Reports says about CFLs?


                    From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Robert Johnston
                    Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                    I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                    Robert


                    From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                    Greetings,
                    But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                    you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                    eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                    time as is.
                    Bright Blessings,
                    Kim

                    David Power wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                    > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                    >
                    > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                    > to burn to light it.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > David
                    >

                  • Kevin Conlin
                    Hi Robert, I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well. Now whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I m hoping to
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 5 9:20 AM
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Hi Robert,  I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well.  Now whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I’m hoping to quantify this issue, like you, I have some that are failing too soon.  In other fixtures they have already lasted for years, so it’s been a mixed bag so far.

                       

                      Regards,  Kevin

                       

                       

                      ________________________

                      Kevin Conlin

                      Solarcraft, Inc.

                      4007 C Greenbriar

                      Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                      Local (281) 340-1224

                      Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                      Fax 281 340 1230

                      kconlin@...

                      www.solarcraft.net

                       

                      Please make a note of our new contact information above.

                       


                      From: Robert Johnston [mailto:junk1@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                       

                      I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                      Robert

                       


                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                       

                      Greetings,
                      But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                      you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                      eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                      time as is.
                      Bright Blessings,
                      Kim

                      David Power wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                      > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                      >
                      > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                      > to burn to light it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > David
                      >

                    • Nan Hildreth
                      CF bulbs don t like being rapidly switched on and off. If given a half hour to warm up, they last longer. So in my bathroom I use a motion sensor incandescent
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 5 11:37 AM
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                        CF bulbs don't like being rapidly switched on and off.  If given a half hour to warm up, they last longer.  So in my bathroom I use a motion sensor incandescent nightlight that I got from Home Depot for $7 and only turn on the CF lights in the bath when I need a really bright light.  

                        At 11:27 AM 3/5/2007, Kevin Conlin wrote:

                        Hi Robert,  I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well.  Now whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I’m hoping to quantify this issue, like you, I have some that are failing too soon.  In other fixtures they have already lasted for years, so it’s been a mixed bag so far.

                         

                        Regards,  Kevin

                         

                         

                        ________________________

                        Kevin Conlin

                        Solarcraft, Inc.

                        4007 C Greenbriar

                        Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                        Local (281) 340-1224

                        Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                        Fax 281 340 1230

                        kconlin@...

                        www.solarcraft.net

                         

                        Please make a note of our new contact information above.

                         

                        From: Robert Johnston [ mailto:junk1@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                         

                        I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s­typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)­vs. claimed 5-7 yrs­that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                        Robert

                         

                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                         

                        Greetings,
                        But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                        you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                        eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                        time as is.
                        Bright Blessings,
                        Kim

                        David Power wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                        > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                        >
                        > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                        > to burn to light it.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > David
                        >

                        Nan Hildreth, Houston 713-842-6643

                        "On playing fields and battlegrounds, challenges that would be daunting and impossible if faced alone are suddenly possible when tackled in a close-knit group.  The people haven't changed, but the way in which the task appears to them has."  Malcolm Gladwell, The Tipping Point

                      • cgalvan21
                        Several of you have stated that power-cycling CFL s shortens their life. My experience seems to support a corollary to that theory: CFLs that operate 24x7
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 5 1:54 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Several of you have stated that power-cycling CFL's shortens their
                          life. My experience seems to support a corollary to that theory:
                          CFLs that operate 24x7 seem to last a LONG time. Of the two CFL's I
                          have operating 24x7, one has logged about 10000 hrs, the other over
                          26000! The latter has rarely if ever been power cycled since being
                          deployed.

                          With regard to taxing incandescents... I guess that can be a
                          solution, though I think that current marketing efforts are
                          succeeding. I see CFLs or other efficient lighting systems installed
                          everywhere I look. I would rather see more effort put towards
                          recycling the expired lamps.

                          On another note, has anyone seen any research done on the energy
                          *embodied* in a CFLs vs. incandescent? One always sees quoted the
                          fact that these lamps "use 1/4 the energy", "last 10x longer", etc.
                          But what about the energy that goes into making the CFL, which is
                          much more complex and uses materials that might be more rare than
                          those of an incandescent lamp.

                          Just my thoughts...

                          -Chris
                        • Ariel Thomann
                          Good idea re. dating first use. I recently had to replace my first one -- used on a floor lamp w/ timer, runs whether I m here or away traveling. Turns on
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 5 1:58 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Good idea re. dating first use. I recently had to replace my first one -- used
                            on a floor lamp w/ timer, runs whether I'm here or away traveling. Turns on for
                            about 2 hours every morning, about 4 every evening. I lasted over 4 years.
                            Another with similar setup in another lamp is still running strong.

                            Ariel
                            - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since
                            otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
                            - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7
                            generations.
                            ------------------------------------

                            > Hi Robert, I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well. Now
                            > whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I'm
                            > hoping to quantify this issue, like you, I have some that are failing too
                            > soon. In other fixtures they have already lasted for years, so it's been a
                            > mixed bag so far.
                            >
                            > Regards, Kevin
                          • Robert Johnston
                            That would work for lamps, I suppose, but I don t use lamps for any significant length of time, so it would take forever to run the test. To condition power
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 12 1:16 PM
                            • 0 Attachment

                              That would work for lamps, I suppose, but I don’t use lamps for any significant length of time, so it would take forever to run the test.  To condition power to overhead lighting, I’d need a whole house conditioner, I suppose.

                               

                              But more to the point, I suspect that CFLs may be more susceptible to dirty power than incandescents are, and probably vary brand by brand.  Any idea of how to measure that, and if stats exist comparing different brands?  I didn’t find anything of use on the energystar website.

                               

                              (btw, you may recall that the 1st Autocell CFL I got only lasted 1 or 2 weeks.  This one lasted 2 years.  I really liked the performance of the 2nd one in terms of light quality and speed of startup, but 2 years is a lot different than the advertised 12,000 hours.  With my usage, I estimate I had about 4000 hours on that bulb).

                               

                              Robert

                               


                              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jmiggins
                              Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:58 AM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                               

                              Robert you might have issues with your voltage or power quality at your dwelling.  It is not unusual to have voltage swings from 117 to 134 volts depending onthe time of day and your space on the power line.  It is unusual for all the brands to have longevity problems, I think the common denominator might be some other issue.  I do agree with your point that they are not for everyone and every application.

                               

                              There are small power conditioners that smooth out the power voltage, ;phase etc... and provide clean power, a good experiment would to plug of these in and then runthe bulbs off it to see if there is any difference.

                               

                              all the best

                               

                               

                              John Miggins
                              Harvest Solar Energy LLC
                              "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                              1571 East 22 place, Tulsa OK 74114
                              918-743-2299 office
                              918-521-6223 Cell
                              www.harvestsolar. net

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM

                              Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                               

                              I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                              Robert


                              From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                              Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                              Greetings,
                              But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                              you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                              eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                              time as is.
                              Bright Blessings,
                              Kim

                              David Power wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                              > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                              >
                              > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                              > to burn to light it.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > David
                              >

                              size=2 width="100%" align=center>

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                            • Robert Johnston
                              That s exactly what I do-I write the date on the base with a Sharpie. And it is revealing disturbing trends. The economics arguments are probably still in
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 12 1:19 PM
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                                That’s exactly what I do—I write the date on the base with a Sharpie.  And it is revealing disturbing trends.  The economics arguments are probably still in favor of the CFL, but not nearly as favorable.

                                 


                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kevin Conlin
                                Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:28 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                                 

                                Hi Robert,  I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well.  Now whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I’m hoping to quantify this issue, like you, I have some that are failing too soon.  In other fixtures they have already lasted for years, so it’s been a mixed bag so far.

                                 

                                Regards,  Kevin

                                 

                                 

                                ____________ _________ ___

                                Kevin Conlin

                                Solarcraft, Inc.

                                4007 C Greenbriar

                                Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                                Local (281) 340-1224

                                Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                                Fax 281 340 1230

                                kconlin@solarcraft. net

                                www.solarcraft. net

                                 

                                Please make a note of our new contact information above.

                                 


                                From: Robert Johnston [mailto: junk1@ plastability. com ]
                                Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:55 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                                 

                                I continue to have such bad luck with longevity of CFL’s—typically just 6 mos to 2 years (max)—vs. claimed 5-7 yrs—that I don’t think they should be legislating CFLs until the technology is working as advertised.  I’ve tried half a dozen brands including Autocell Electronics and they just aren’t lasting.  Is it lightning in this region affecting electronic ballasts, or what?  The other issue I have is that stores aren’t carrying 2700 K bulbs for the most part.  If they would, I think it would be easier to get folks to switch, since they have color more similar to incandescents, instead of the garish blue of high color temperature CFLs.


                                Robert

                                 


                                From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:47 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                                 

                                Greetings,
                                But what about when the incandescent is the proper bulb, that is when
                                you need the heat, not just the light? Hardly a sin. Do you like to
                                eat? If yes, please don't punish the farmers, we have a hard enough
                                time as is.
                                Bright Blessings,
                                Kim

                                David Power wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > How about a sin tax of $1.00 per incandescent bulb? More revenue for the
                                > state and gets the costs more inline with cfls.
                                >
                                > Either that or attach the 120lb bag of coal to the bulb that you have
                                > to burn to light it.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > David
                                >

                              • Robert Johnston
                                A couple comments... 1) on the energy embodied comment, I note that when CFL s first came out, a lot of them were those quad shaped things that plugged
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 12 1:25 PM
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                                  A couple comments...

                                   

                                  1)       on the “energy embodied” comment, I note that when CFL’s first came out, a lot of them were those quad shaped things that plugged into the ballast, so that you only replaced the bulb part and not the ballast when they burned out.  Those don’t seem to have become very popular with consumers, and I don’t see them in the stores now.  I suspect that is because of varying brands/incompatibilities making it confusing/hassle for consumers, and/or the form factor vs. spiral.  Maybe someone has insight into this.  But I think that if the ballasts were made more robust, and the plug-in design were used, maybe it would address my concerns about premature burnout (if that is the ballast—I don’t even know that, though), and it would also perhaps reduce total “energy embodied”.

                                  2)       Leaving CFL’s “on” might be a good idea for longevity, but if one needs a bulb in an intermittent use area, then clearly leaving it on 24x7 will negate the energy savings.  If some CFLs are sensitive to on/off switching as you and some others have commented, then we need a way to determine which brands are tolerant of that behavior.

                                   

                                  Robert

                                   


                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cgalvan21
                                  Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 3:55 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [hreg] CFL lifespan, CFL embodied energy

                                   

                                  Several of you have stated that power-cycling CFL's shortens their
                                  life. My experience seems to support a corollary to that theory:
                                  CFLs that operate 24x7 seem to last a LONG time. Of the two CFL's I
                                  have operating 24x7, one has logged about 10000 hrs, the other over
                                  26000! The latter has rarely if ever been power cycled since being
                                  deployed.

                                  With regard to taxing incandescents. .. I guess that can be a
                                  solution, though I think that current marketing efforts are
                                  succeeding. I see CFLs or other efficient lighting systems installed
                                  everywhere I look. I would rather see more effort put towards
                                  recycling the expired lamps.

                                  On another note, has anyone seen any research done on the energy
                                  *embodied* in a CFLs vs. incandescent? One always sees quoted the
                                  fact that these lamps "use 1/4 the energy", "last 10x longer", etc.
                                  But what about the energy that goes into making the CFL, which is
                                  much more complex and uses materials that might be more rare than
                                  those of an incandescent lamp.

                                  Just my thoughts...

                                  -Chris

                                • David Power
                                  I have had very good luck with several brands after noticing some of the lamps were only lasting a few months. It seems that the ballasts are heat sensitive on
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 14 11:37 AM
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                                    I have had very good luck with several brands after noticing some of the lamps were only lasting a few months. It seems that the ballasts are heat sensitive on some brands so they don’t like being inverted or enclosed (recessed lighting) some don’t last long at all if vibrated (ceiling fan or next to a door that is opened and closed a lot. I have on that is installed in my laundry room that is hard to replace, I installed it in the summer of 1990 and it still works fine, gets short cycled (flipped on and off) almost every day (to bad I don’t remember the brand, I have to remove the washing machine from the room to change it).

                                     

                                    It also seems to vary by lot. I have been using FEIT CFL’s for 3 or 4 years and have only had a couple fail, then I bought a case of the A style bulbs and 4 out of the 12 failed in 4 months, all were installed in enclosed inverted fixtures, replaced them with their mini twist and they have been fine for over 1 ½ years.  All are 2650k spectrum and energy star certified. They did replace the bulbs under warranty. Maybe we can start keeping a list of the brands that fail early and how they are installed.

                                     

                                    David

                                     


                                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Johnston


                                    From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Kevin Conlin
                                    Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:28 AM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                                     

                                    Hi Robert,  I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well.  Now whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I’m hoping to quantify this issue, like you, I have some that are failing too soon.  In other fixtures they have already lasted for years, so it’s been a mixed bag so far.

                                     

                                    Regards,  Kevin

                                     

                                  • Kevin Conlin
                                    That’s interesting, until I read your e-mail I had forgotten about a PL lamp that I installed twenty years ago, back when the transformer and electronics
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 14 12:02 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      That’s interesting, until I read your e-mail I had forgotten about a PL lamp that I installed twenty years ago, back when the transformer and electronics were external.  It has worked far better and longer than any of the new models, and does get short cycled.  Apparently the quality has suffered in mass production.

                                       


                                      From: David Power [mailto:dpower@...]
                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 1:38 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                                       

                                      I have had very good luck with several brands after noticing some of the lamps were only lasting a few months. It seems that the ballasts are heat sensitive on some brands so they don’t like being inverted or enclosed (recessed lighting) some don’t last long at all if vibrated (ceiling fan or next to a door that is opened and closed a lot. I have on that is installed in my laundry room that is hard to replace, I installed it in the summer of 1990 and it still works fine, gets short cycled (flipped on and off) almost every day (to bad I don’t remember the brand, I have to remove the washing machine from the room to change it).

                                       

                                      It also seems to vary by lot. I have been using FEIT CFL’s for 3 or 4 years and have only had a couple fail, then I bought a case of the A style bulbs and 4 out of the 12 failed in 4 months, all were installed in enclosed inverted fixtures, replaced them with their mini twist and they have been fine for over 1 ½ years.  All are 2650k spectrum and energy star certified. They did replace the bulbs under warranty. Maybe we can start keeping a list of the brands that fail early and how they are installed.

                                       

                                      David

                                       


                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Robert Johnston



                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Kevin Conlin
                                      Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:28 AM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Chronicle lead editorial - Texas may phase out incandescent bulbs?

                                       

                                      Hi Robert,  I use them also and am questioning the longevity as well.  Now whenever I replace one I write the date on the base with a Sharpie, so I’m hoping to quantify this issue, like you, I have some that are failing too soon.  In other fixtures they have already lasted for years, so it’s been a mixed bag so far.

                                       

                                      Regards,  Kevin

                                       

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