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Re: [hreg] prius vs ?

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  • Susan Modikoane
    Why not check out the solar-powered Westfalia? If things get as bad as they re predicted to get, this might be the only way to go!
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 24 7:52 PM
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      Why not check out the solar-powered Westfalia?  If things get as bad as they're predicted to get, this might be the only way to go!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmABNMXRiZE

      Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
      Greetings,
      I just traded my Volkswagens diesel for a Toyota corrola. I can fit
      both dogs in the back seat of the toyo and they did not fit in my golf.
      As for millage, 90% of my driving is highway, so the prius didn't make
      any sense for me. The corolla gets around 42 mpg which is only a few
      less than my golf got, and it handles a much bigger payload. It will
      take 8 bags of feed in the trunk and 4 full sized adults fit easily in
      the car. My corolla listed at just over $16k so really worth looking
      into. I did take a Scion out for a drive, but it was noisy and rode
      like the box it is.
      Bright Blessings,
      Kim

      Paul Archer wrote:
      > My wife and I are looking for a more fuel efficient vehicle than our current
      > car, a Honda Element (which gets around 20mpg). We have some negative equity
      > on the Element, so we're having a hard time finding something we can afford.
      > The Prius seems like a great car (and has some really geeky-cool features),
      > but it's a little too expensive--not to mention the lack of room compared to
      > the Element, or practically anything else.
      > Does anyone have a suggestion for a vehicle that gets better-than- average
      > gas mileage, won't cost too much ("too much" meaning more than $22-24k), and
      > maybe has some room?
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Paul
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -----
      > "Somebody did say Swedish porn, there--
      > but someone always does..."
      > --Clive Anderson, host of "Whose Line Is It, Anyway",
      > after asking the audience for movie suggestions
      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -----
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
      with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

    • jmiggins
      VW baby, John Miggins Harvest Solar Energy LLC renewable solutions to everyday needs 1571 East 22 place, Tulsa OK 74114 918-743-2299 office 918-521-6223 Cell
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 26 11:06 AM
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        VW baby,
         
         
        John Miggins
        Harvest Solar Energy LLC
        "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
        1571 East 22 place, Tulsa OK 74114
        918-743-2299 office
        918-521-6223 Cell
        www.harvestsolar.net
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:23 PM
        Subject: [hreg] prius vs ?

        My wife and I are looking for a more fuel efficient vehicle than our current
        car, a Honda Element (which gets around 20mpg). We have some negative equity
        on the Element, so we're having a hard time finding something we can afford.
        The Prius seems like a great car (and has some really geeky-cool features),
        but it's a little too expensive--not to mention the lack of room compared to
        the Element, or practically anything else.
        Does anyone have a suggestion for a vehicle that gets better-than- average
        gas mileage, won't cost too much ("too much" meaning more than $22-24k), and
        maybe has some room?

        Thanks,

        Paul

        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -----
        "Somebody did say Swedish porn, there--
        but someone always does..."
        --Clive Anderson, host of "Whose Line Is It, Anyway",
        after asking the audience for movie suggestions
        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -----

      • Rob Rowland
        Now if only they would make a car that fit six (2 adults, 4 teenagers) comfortably, had 4 TON towing capacity and cargo space for our Lab and Great Dane. Then
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2007
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          Now if only they would make a car that fit six (2 adults, 4 teenagers) comfortably, had 4 TON towing capacity and cargo space for our Lab and Great Dane.  Then I would gladly replace my Suburban with that vehicle.  Until then, I'm keeping the Suburban and riding the motorcycle to work on the nice days.  After what we experienced evacuating for Hurricane Rita I will never be without a single vehicle that can haul all of us + gear.  I can go nearly 600 miles on the highway before needing a filling station.  How many high gas mileage vehicles can do that?
           
          :)
           
          Rob Rowland
        • Ariel Thomann
          Sounds like elective, self-inflicted problems... I admit, Planned Parenthood would have been no help concerning the dogs and your perceived need to tow around
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 1, 2007
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            Sounds like elective, self-inflicted problems... I admit, Planned Parenthood
            would have been no help concerning the dogs and your perceived need to tow
            around more stuff than most people in the world even own. On the hopeful side,
            I think Detroit screwed up again by initially putting their hesitant, long
            overdue hybrid technology into big vehicles, but that may be what your heart
            desires. Check those out.

            With my Prius, I start thinking about gas at about 400-450 miles, but I can pace
            myself to go well over 500-550 (12 gallon tank, 44 mpg pre-ethanol, now a bit
            less -- up to about 60 mpg at steady 55-65 mph).

            Ariel ;)
            - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since
            otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
            - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7
            generations.
            ------------------------------------

            > Now if only they would make a car that fit six (2 adults, 4 teenagers)
            > comfortably, had 4 TON towing capacity and cargo space for our Lab and Great
            > Dane. Then I would gladly replace my Suburban with that vehicle. Until then,
            > I'm keeping the Suburban and riding the motorcycle to work on the nice days.
            > After what we experienced evacuating for Hurricane Rita I will never be
            > without a single vehicle that can haul all of us + gear. I can go nearly 600
            > miles on the highway before needing a filling station. How many high gas
            > mileage vehicles can do that?
            >
            > :)
            >
            > Rob Rowland
          • Garth & Kim Travis
            Greetings, My toyota corrolla can, it gets 42 mpg and has a 15 gallon tank. I have run it 600 miles before refueling. And small cars can tow trailers, I did
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 2, 2007
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              Greetings,
              My toyota corrolla can, it gets 42 mpg and has a 15 gallon tank. I
              have run it 600 miles before refueling. And small cars can tow
              trailers, I did with my 92 honda. I now have a farm truck so I no
              longer put a hitch on my cars, but yes, they do tow. However, it will
              not carry the teenagers and dogs, just the dogs and 2 adults plus a lot
              of gear. I can pick up 8 bags of feed easily with the car.
              Bright Blessings,
              Kim

              Rob Rowland wrote:
              > Now if only they would make a car that fit six (2 adults, 4 teenagers)
              > comfortably, had 4 TON towing capacity and cargo space for our Lab and
              > Great Dane. Then I would gladly replace my Suburban with that vehicle.
              > Until then, I'm keeping the Suburban and riding the motorcycle to work
              > on the nice days. After what we experienced evacuating for Hurricane
              > Rita I will never be without a single vehicle that can haul all of us +
              > gear. I can go nearly 600 miles on the highway before needing a filling
              > station. How many high gas mileage vehicles can do that?
              >
              > :)
              >
              > Rob Rowland
              >
              >
            • Lindsey Honari
              Unless it is time to get a new car, you are better off in terms of energy consumption and emissions if you just use what you have for as long as you can.
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 7, 2007
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                Unless it is time to get a new car, you are better off in terms of energy consumption and emissions if you just use what you have for as long as you can.  Think about the resource use and emissions involved in getting the raw materials out of the ground, to process and ship the components to the manufacturing site, to manufacture the new vehicle (not to mention what the employees use to get to the factory), and the energy and emissions cost to transport that new vehicle to a show room lot. 
                 
                On top of that, most Americans change cars every 3-5 years. 
                 
                I would think that keeping your car or buying a used one would be equal to or greater than the energy and emissions savings by getting a hybrid or a car with better mileage.  Or, as some readers have offered in terms of upgrading homes for energy efficiency, you still make the greatest impact by changing your consumption habits.
                 
                Best,
                 
                Lindsey
                 
                 

                 
                On 2/24/07, Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote:

                My wife and I are looking for a more fuel efficient vehicle than our current
                car, a Honda Element (which gets around 20mpg). We have some negative equity
                on the Element, so we're having a hard time finding something we can afford.
                The Prius seems like a great car (and has some really geeky-cool features),
                but it's a little too expensive--not to mention the lack of room compared to
                the Element, or practically anything else.
                Does anyone have a suggestion for a vehicle that gets better-than-average
                gas mileage, won't cost too much ("too much" meaning more than $22-24k), and
                maybe has some room?

                Thanks,

                Paul

                -----------------------------------------------------
                "Somebody did say Swedish porn, there--
                but someone always does..."
                --Clive Anderson, host of "Whose Line Is It, Anyway",
                after asking the audience for movie suggestions
                -----------------------------------------------------


              • cgalvan21
                Kudos to you, Lindsey, for a fabulous response! A back-of-an-envelope calculation tells me that switching from a Suburban (est. 15mpg) to a Prius (est. 40
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 7, 2007
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                  Kudos to you, Lindsey, for a fabulous response!

                  A back-of-an-envelope calculation tells me that switching from a
                  Suburban (est. 15mpg) to a Prius (est. 40 mpg), driving 15k miles per
                  year would save about 625 gallons of gasoline per year. Assuming
                  that a person holds onto his or her Suburban for an extra three years
                  before buying the Prius, they will consume an extra 1875 gallons of
                  gasoline, or the equivalent of an extra 69 megawatthours of energy**.

                  Group: does it take more than 69 MWh to build a Prius?

                  -Chris

                  **Source: http://www.onlineconversion.com


                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsey Honari" <llhonari@...> wrote:

                  > Unless it is time to get a new car, you are better off in
                  > terms of energy consumption and emissions if you just use
                  > what you have for as long as you can. Think about the resource
                  > use and emissions involved in getting the raw materials out of
                  > the ground, to process and ship the components to the
                  > manufacturing site, to manufacture the new vehicle (not to
                  > mention what the employees use to get to the factory),
                  > and the energy and emissions cost to transport that new
                  > vehicle to a show room lot.
                  >
                  > On top of that, most Americans change cars every 3-5 years.
                  >
                  > I would think that keeping your car or buying a used one
                  > would be equal to or greater than the energy and emissions
                  > savings by getting a hybrid or a car with better mileage.
                  > Or, as some readers have offered in terms of upgrading homes
                  > for energy efficiency, you still make the greatest impact by
                  > changing your consumption habits.
                  >
                  > Best,
                  >
                  > Lindsey
                  >
                • Ariel Thomann
                  I can t answer your question re building a Prius (or a twice-as-heavy Suburban). I do know my 23-1/2 month old Prius, which just had its 40K service, averaged
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 8, 2007
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                    I can't answer your question re building a Prius (or a twice-as-heavy Suburban).
                    I do know my 23-1/2 month old Prius, which just had its 40K service, averaged
                    an honest 44 mpg all-around, until current increase in ethanol resulted in loss
                    of mileage down to about 41-42 mpg.

                    Peripherally related to this, the Oshkosh company is coming right along with a
                    diesel-electric heavy truck for the US military.

                    Ariel
                    - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since
                    otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
                    - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7
                    generations.
                    ------------------------------------

                    > Kudos to you, Lindsey, for a fabulous response!
                    >
                    > A back-of-an-envelope calculation tells me that switching from a
                    > Suburban (est. 15mpg) to a Prius (est. 40 mpg), driving 15k miles per year
                    > would save about 625 gallons of gasoline per year. Assuming that a person
                    > holds onto his or her Suburban for an extra three years before buying the
                    > Prius, they will consume an extra 1875 gallons of gasoline, or the equivalent
                    > of an extra 69 megawatthours of energy**.
                    >
                    > Group: does it take more than 69 MWh to build a Prius?
                    >
                    > -Chris
                    >
                    > **Source: http://www.onlineconversion.com
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsey Honari" <llhonari@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Unless it is time to get a new car, you are better off in
                    >> terms of energy consumption and emissions if you just use
                    >> what you have for as long as you can. Think about the resource
                    >> use and emissions involved in getting the raw materials out of
                    >> the ground, to process and ship the components to the
                    >> manufacturing site, to manufacture the new vehicle (not to
                    >> mention what the employees use to get to the factory),
                    >> and the energy and emissions cost to transport that new
                    >> vehicle to a show room lot.
                    >>
                    >> On top of that, most Americans change cars every 3-5 years.
                    >>
                    >> I would think that keeping your car or buying a used one
                    >> would be equal to or greater than the energy and emissions
                    >> savings by getting a hybrid or a car with better mileage.
                    >> Or, as some readers have offered in terms of upgrading homes
                    >> for energy efficiency, you still make the greatest impact by
                    >> changing your consumption habits.
                    >>
                    >> Best,
                    >>
                    >> Lindsey
                    >>
                  • Larry Weber, Sales
                    Why buy new car? I paid $1800 for 79 mercedes 240D, 4 cyl., four door full size sedan. Rebuilt engine, new AC, etc. for $5K. Getting 35 mpg. Biodiesel will
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 8, 2007
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                      Re: [hreg] Re: prius vs ? Why buy new car?  I paid $1800 for 79 mercedes 240D, 4 cyl., four door full size sedan.  
                      Rebuilt engine, new AC, etc. for $5K.  Getting 35 mpg.  

                      Biodiesel will probably be one of the best fuels of the future, can be made from many things.
                      There are several production plants in Texas.  We are discussing with one producer to become a distributor.

                      We are also designing an under water lighting system for a customer that will be growing algae for biodiesel production.  

                      Larry weber







                      Naturallighting.com
                      1414 FM 646 RD E
                      DICKINSON, TX  77539

                      Toll Free  1.888.900.6830
                      FAX        281.559.4949

                      email:  larry@...
                      http://www.naturallighting.com

                    • Robert Johnston
                      Lindsey, You are assuming that the car gets scrapped. But if it is sold to another user, (and so forth, handed down the car food chain to teenagers, etc.,
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 12, 2007
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                        Lindsey,

                         

                        You are assuming that the car gets scrapped.  But if it is sold to another user, (and so forth, handed down the “car food chain” to teenagers, etc., until it dies), then your calculus would have to be adjusted. 

                         

                        I agree with your general sentiments on hybrids and fuel efficient cars, though.  A Honda Civic is a great car, and you don’t have to replace batteries or do other expensive maintenance at 100k miles.  It is starting to come out in the press how much these repairs are costing.  That is why I shied away from them myself—the math never added up for me.  (I find it curious that many of those who eschew “corporate welfare” seem to love tax credits for hybrids.  If that isn’t corporate welfare, what is?!).


                        Robert

                         


                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lindsey Honari
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:22 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] prius vs ?

                         

                        Unless it is time to get a new car, you are better off in terms of energy consumption and emissions if you just use what you have for as long as you can.  Think about the resource use and emissions involved in getting the raw materials out of the ground, to process and ship the components to the manufacturing site, to manufacture the new vehicle (not to mention what the employees use to get to the factory), and the energy and emissions cost to transport that new vehicle to a show room lot. 

                         

                        On top of that, most Americans change cars every 3-5 years. 

                         

                        I would think that keeping your car or buying a used one would be equal to or greater than the energy and emissions savings by getting a hybrid or a car with better mileage.  Or, as some readers have offered in terms of upgrading homes for energy efficiency, you still make the greatest impact by changing your consumption habits.

                         

                        Best,

                         

                        Lindsey

                         

                         


                         

                        On 2/24/07, Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote:

                        My wife and I are looking for a more fuel efficient vehicle than our current
                        car, a Honda Element (which gets around 20mpg). We have some negative equity
                        on the Element, so we're having a hard time finding something we can afford.
                        The Prius seems like a great car (and has some really geeky-cool features),
                        but it's a little too expensive--not to mention the lack of room compared to
                        the Element, or practically anything else.
                        Does anyone have a suggestion for a vehicle that gets better-than- average
                        gas mileage, won't cost too much ("too much" meaning more than $22-24k), and
                        maybe has some room?

                        Thanks,

                        Paul

                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -----
                        "Somebody did say Swedish porn, there--
                        but someone always does..."
                        --Clive Anderson, host of "Whose Line Is It, Anyway",
                        after asking the audience for movie suggestions
                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -----

                         

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