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Re: [hreg] Snake oil

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  • Ed Sarlls
    The hype is the con artists secret! Unfortunately a lot of people get drawn in by enthusiasm and spend a lot of effort on something that doesn t have any
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 26, 2007
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      The hype is the con artists secret!
       
      Unfortunately a lot of people get drawn in by enthusiasm and spend a lot of effort on something that doesn't have any substance.
       
      Look at the principals involved, their track record, past successes or failures, their financial backers. This isn't a guarantee but it will weed out a lot of the misguided enthusiasts and con artists.  
       
      The video looked to me more like a magic show than a scientific experiment.
       
      I've been an engineer for almost 50 years and I have seen a lot of people who thought that were on the verge of discovering the secrete of unlimited energy, anti-gravity ( actually a government program), commuter airplanes ( there are a couple that were technical successes), or some other great achievement. I worked with an engineer who built a steam car in the 80s - a brilliant technical success but economic failure because it cost too much finances dried up. 
       
      I review a lot of the technical concepts that are presented to the Space Alliance Technology Outreach Program for technical assistance. If anyone is interested in that program see http://www.spacetechsolutions.com/.
       
      We have more than one Ed on here so don't get me confused with one of the others.
       
      I can always spare a little time if anyone wants to contact me directly. There are thousands of ideas out there, a few are ready for prime time and some will never make it either because of some minor technical problems or major defects. If you have one that looks good I'll help get it submitted to SATOP.
       
      Ed Sarlls
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:35 PM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil

      Robert-

      I agree with your description of the catalytic process. I might just add several points: First most automoblies use a two stage cataysis process. The first stage uses a Platnium type material which when hot CO and hydrocarbon gas pass over it the hydrogen bonds are weakened resulting in a large majority of the reactants turning to CO2 and H2O. This is process is oxidation (for the CO only). The second stage catalyist reduces NOX to diatomic nitrogen and oxygen. However, the actual catalysis process is not fully understood, it still is somewhat of a black art.

      As for the product posted on the internet, I wish they would provide more technical specs. on their product. I watched most of the video but it was so vague I just skipped through it looking for some meat and potatoes information. How exactly do these guys propose boosting engine efficency? There's all this talk about a catalysis which produces hydrogen (which is presume is fed back into the engine intake). I can't possibly imagine how they are accomplishing this. I've been doing some research on producing hydrogen from fuel sources (mostly bio fuels and waste fuel residuals) through a catalysis reaction for my masters thesis. Every proposal I've read uses a reaction process carried at around 800 - 1,000C and 200+ bar. I seriously doubt these guys are achieving such temps and pressures. Does anyone have specs. (not internet hype) for this product?

      Sean 


      From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@plastability. com>
      Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil
      Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:51:49 -0600

      This whole topic was argued many months ago, and you were warned not to waste money investing in this scheme.  I wish it wouldn’t be promoted here, as anyone who buys it will have been scammed and I hate to see HREG develop a reputation for fraudulent schemes based on pseudoscience or worse.

       

      Paul has done an excellent job of arguing against this.  If you go back in the archives, you can also find emails from me that provide links to websites that document the fraud that this in fact is.

       

      No offense intended to you, Ed, but even while you experiment, please don’t promote here.  And, for every new idea that is initially ridiculed before being accepted, there are probably a thousand that are ridiculed with justification and are ultimately rejected.  If you don’t believe that, I have a new a perpetual motion machine to sell you.  Offline, of course!

       

      Just one quick comment on the technical side.  If I understood you correctly, you believe that hydrogen is the energy carrier in water, and it is wasted when water drips out of an exhaust pipe.  If the hydrogen were in its reduced state, it would have energy available to release upon oxidation (reaction with oxygen).  However, in water, it is in the oxidized state, so it is no longer a (useable) energy carrier.  The energy was released as heat (and light, depending on how it was done) when the oxygen and hydrogen came together to form water.  There’s even a name for this energy:  it is the heat of formation.  You can look up in a standard reference book the heat of formation of water from hydrogen and oxygen.  That’s the quantity of heat released when water is formed.

       

      Robert

       

       


      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Edward Kramer
      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:17 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Snake oil

       

      At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened.

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM

      Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

       

      Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

      ____________ _________ ___

      Kevin Conlin

      Solarcraft, Inc.

      4007 C Greenbriar

      Stafford, TX 77477-4536

      Local (281) 340-1224

      Toll Free (877) 340-1224

      Fax 281 340 1230

      kconlin@solarcraft. net

      www.solarcraft. net

      Please make a note of our new contact information above.


      From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

      Paul,

       A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

      Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

      Remember the 3 stages of truth

      1) ridiculed

      2) violently opposed

      3) accepted as self evident

      Edward

      I

         

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

      Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
      never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
      goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
      using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
      pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
      But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
      still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
      Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
      engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
      are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

      So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
      to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
      mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
      mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
      getting the rod length right.

      BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
      (which is false).

      Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
      with them.

      Paul

      9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

      > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
      > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
      >
      > Edward Kramer

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      "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
      "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
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