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Re: [hreg] Energy policy

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  • Bashir Syed
    There is a virtual collusion between Automobile Manufacturers, Oil Companies and $1.3 Insurance Industry to keep the status quo! ... From: Jim & Janet To:
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
      There is a virtual collusion between Automobile Manufacturers, Oil Companies and $1.3 Insurance Industry to keep the status quo!
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:06 PM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

      There was an airplane engine technology used extensively in WWII that injected water into the air/gas mixture before it reached the combustion chamber. It allowed the engine to run cooler and use less fuel as a bonus. The heat and oil breakdown was the big enemy of the giant old V12 piston engine powered aircraft.
      The bottom line is simple, any company (GM) which has an estimated trillion dollars of worldwide assets that cannot make an ICE design achieve more than 20+ MPG is doing so deliberately.
      Jim Duncan
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:02 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

      For anyones information about this emerging technology, the Bush administration is well aware of this invention. They were invited to give a demonstration at the white house on Nov 1 and was cancelled, cancelled another 3 times in the last couple of months. With a new Congress, there is a slight shift in policy and changes.
      As far as mileage goes, maybe thinking mpg of gasoline! A dually will never get 100 mpg, it is lucky to get 10. If you get get 30 in a working truck I would be on top of the world. IF a gas engine can operate on a 50 05 mixture of water and gas, wouldn;t that double the amount of mpg in gas /carbon  usage and decrease those co2 emmissions by that factor. I hope you saw the video and witness a ic engine ooperating on a 60-40 mixture of gas and water.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:33 AM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Energy policy

      I seriously question the claim which this website makes regarding such dramatic increases in fuel efficiency. While I do not proclaim to be an ICE expert I am versed in the laws of thermodynamics and basic chemical kinetics. A major limiting factor of an ICE is the fact that the available temperature differential within the engine limits efficiency to roughly 40% (second law of thermodynamics) . Secondly, the car itself is limited by basic physics namely the weight of the vehicle requiring a min. force to propel it. Taking into consideration drag coefficient and tire friction further reduces efficiency- completely indepedent of the prime mover. Why are modern cars more efficient? Because of numerous advances in several technological fronts such as: engine blocks made of Al. instead of steel to provide enhanced heat dissapation (and higher temperature differential) , plastic bodies weighing a fraction of traditional steel bodies, tires with lower friction coefficients, enhanced aerodynamics of the vehicles, fuel injection... .

      My point is that there is no single silver bullet which can boost car efficiency by an enormous amount. Every engineering improvement requires certain tradeoffs. You can't make a 2 ton Ford dually truck get 100 mpg no matter what magical prime mover it is using- it simply weighs too much and has the aerodynamics of a brick. Conversely, a lighweight, low profile sedan with far reduced horsepower, acceleration and top speed can easily obtain 100 mpg.

      I support research and development into improving efficiency, but broad based claims and superficial "conspiracy theories" serve no good to the scientific commmunity. If something appears to be too good to be true- it most likely is.

      Sean Kaylor 


      From: "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@pdq. net>
      Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
      Subject: [hreg] Energy policy
      Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:11:23 -0600

      Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night.  Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
      converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
       
      Edward Kramer


    • Edward Kramer
      This message is to Sean and any other expert in the field- Do you know of the work of Stanley Meyers or Yul Brown? ... From: Bashir Syed To:
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
        This message is to Sean and any other expert in the field-
        Do you know of the work of Stanley Meyers or Yul Brown?
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:19 PM
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

        The most plausible and sensuble solution is the MASS TRANSIT, which is prevalent in Europe, Japan and China, using Electric Trolleys. Electricity could be compensated through Hybrid Wind/Solar Farms. Or else everyone drive a samall Electric car whose batterues are charged either through regular grid or as Nepal is doing, with Solar Battery Charginbg stations, which are providing employment as well as making money or profit (Ref. Home-Power Magazine article by Anil Baral from Nepal).  
         
        Bashir A. Syed
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

        To answer your question regarding a 50/50 mixture no it will not. Fuel
        density is the primary governor of how much energy can be converted into
        useful work (that is the first law of thermodynamics actually). By dilluting
        the fuel with water the amount of available energy in the fuel is reduced. A
        great example is ethanol which has a lower energy density than petro fuel.
        You need about 30% more ethanol to travel the same distance than with
        gasoline. A simple closed cup flash test can test the energy density of a
        fuel- perhaps this company can furnish more information related to their
        fuel energy density other than drinking some sodas and throwing in misc.
        houshold products as fuel)

        Water injection has been studied for quite some time in reducing pollutants
        on large ocean going ships. The principle idea is the water can lower engine
        exhaust temperatures allowing catalysts to perform better.

        Sean Kaylor

        >From: "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@pdq. net>
        >Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        >To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
        >Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy
        >Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:02:28 -0600
        >
        >For anyones information about this emerging technology, the Bush
        >administration is well aware of this invention. They were invited to give a
        >demonstration at the white house on Nov 1 and was cancelled, cancelled
        >another 3 times in the last couple of months. With a new Congress, there is
        >a slight shift in policy and changes.
        >As far as mileage goes, maybe thinking mpg of gasoline! A dually will never
        >get 100 mpg, it is lucky to get 10. If you get get 30 in a working truck I
        >would be on top of the world. IF a gas engine can operate on a 50 05
        >mixture of water and gas, wouldn;t that double the amount of mpg in gas
        >/carbon usage and decrease those co2 emmissions by that factor. I hope you
        >saw the video and witness a ic engine ooperating on a 60-40 mixture of gas
        >and water.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Sean Kaylor
        > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:33 AM
        > Subject: RE: [hreg] Energy policy
        >
        >
        >
        > I seriously question the claim which this website makes regarding such
        >dramatic increases in fuel efficiency. While I do not proclaim to be an ICE
        >expert I am versed in the laws of thermodynamics and basic chemical
        >kinetics. A major limiting factor of an ICE is the fact that the available
        >temperature differential within the engine limits efficiency to roughly 40%
        >(second law of thermodynamics) . Secondly, the car itself is limited by
        >basic physics namely the weight of the vehicle requiring a min. force to
        >propel it. Taking into consideration drag coefficient and tire friction
        >further reduces efficiency- completely indepedent of the prime mover. Why
        >are modern cars more efficient? Because of numerous advances in several
        >technological fronts such as: engine blocks made of Al. instead of steel to
        >provide enhanced heat dissapation (and higher temperature differential) ,
        >plastic bodies weighing a fraction of traditional steel bodies, tires with
        >lower friction coefficients, enhanced aerodynamics of the vehicles, fuel
        >injection.. ..
        >
        > My point is that there is no single silver bullet which can boost car
        >efficiency by an enormous amount. Every engineering improvement requires
        >certain tradeoffs. You can't make a 2 ton Ford dually truck get 100 mpg no
        >matter what magical prime mover it is using- it simply weighs too much and
        >has the aerodynamics of a brick. Conversely, a lighweight, low profile
        >sedan with far reduced horsepower, acceleration and top speed can easily
        >obtain 100 mpg.
        >
        > I support research and development into improving efficiency, but broad
        >based claims and superficial "conspiracy theories" serve no good to the
        >scientific commmunity. If something appears to be too good to be true- it
        >most likely is.
        >
        > Sean Kaylor
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
        > From: "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@pdq. net>
        > Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
        > To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
        > Subject: [hreg] Energy policy
        > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:11:23 -0600
        >
        >
        >
        > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy
        >proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years
        >the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the
        >Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of
        >making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let
        >another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that
        >reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus
        >increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified
        >catalytic
        > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of
        >gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be
        >ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video
        >on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
        >
        > Edward Kramer
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

      • Kevin Conlin
        Boy, I d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007

          Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

           

           

          ________________________

          Kevin Conlin

          Solarcraft, Inc.

          4007 C Greenbriar

          Stafford, TX 77477-4536

          Local (281) 340-1224

          Toll Free (877) 340-1224

          Fax 281 340 1230

          kconlin@...

          www.solarcraft.net

           

          Please make a note of our new contact information above.

           


          From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

           

          Paul,

           

           A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

          Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

          Remember the 3 stages of truth

          1) ridiculed

          2) violently opposed

          3) accepted as self evident

           

          Edward

          I

           

             

          ----- Original Message -----

          Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

          Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

           

          Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
          never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
          goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
          using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
          pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
          But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
          still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
          Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
          engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
          are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

          So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
          to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
          mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
          mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
          getting the rod length right.

          BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
          (which is false).

          Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
          with them.

          Paul

          9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

          > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
          > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
          >
          > Edward Kramer

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
          "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
          "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
          ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

        • Paul Archer
          Frankly, Edward, it doesn t matter what a catalytic converter is, or what they claim to do with one. When a demonstrator supposedly closes off the exhaust of
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
            Frankly, Edward, it doesn't matter what a catalytic converter is, or what
            they claim to do with one. When a demonstrator supposedly closes off the
            exhaust of an internal combustion engine, *and it keeps running*, or the
            narrator claims that the demonstrator can put his face in the exhaust stream
            *because it's not hot*, that's snake oil, pure and simple.
            There is no way an engine can run with it's exhaust closes off the exhaust.
            That violates the basic principles of an ICE (draw in air and fuel, burn the
            fuel, exhaust the spent mixture). And the only way to get cool exhaust gas
            is to cool it with some large apparatus (and then you still have heat, just
            not in the exhaust gas), or have 100% percent efficient combustion, where
            every last bit of energy is turned into work, and none is wasted as heat.
            Since that's impossible, so is their claim.

            Paul



            12:44pm, Edward Kramer wrote:

            > Paul,
            >
            > A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic? I The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient. That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.
            > Please, anyone make their own conclusions from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.
            > Remember the 3 stages of truth
            > 1) ridiculed
            > 2) violently opposed
            > 3) accepted as self evident
            >
            > Edward
            > I
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Paul Archer
            > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM
            > Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy
            >
            >
            > Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
            > never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
            > goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
            > using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
            > pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
            > But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
            > still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
            > Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
            > engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
            > are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.
            >
            > So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
            > to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
            > mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
            > mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
            > getting the rod length right.
            >
            > BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
            > (which is false).
            >
            > Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
            > with them.
            >
            > Paul
            >
            > 9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:
            >
            > > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
            > > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitioncc.com.
            > >
            > > Edward Kramer
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------
            > "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
            > "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
            > ------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >



            --------------------------------------------------------------
            "I'll say this about Linux: it's the first time I've seen Unix
            on the right platform."--Steve Ballmer, president of Microsoft
            (NB: Microsoft used to own SCO, which did, and still does,
            produce a Unix for the Intel platform.)
            --------------------------------------------------------------
          • Edward Kramer
            At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened. ... From: Kevin Conlin To: hreg@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
              At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened.
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM
              Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

              Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

              ____________ _________ ___

              Kevin Conlin

              Solarcraft, Inc.

              4007 C Greenbriar

              Stafford, TX 77477-4536

              Local (281) 340-1224

              Toll Free (877) 340-1224

              Fax 281 340 1230

              kconlin@solarcraft. net

              www.solarcraft. net

              Please make a note of our new contact information above.


              From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

              Paul,

               A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

              Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

              Remember the 3 stages of truth

              1) ridiculed

              2) violently opposed

              3) accepted as self evident

              Edward

              I

                 

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

              Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

              Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
              never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
              goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
              using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
              pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
              But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
              still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
              Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
              engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
              are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

              So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
              to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
              mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
              mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
              getting the rod length right.

              BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
              (which is false).

              Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
              with them.

              Paul

              9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

              > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
              > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
              >
              > Edward Kramer

              ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
              "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
              "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
              ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

            • Kevin Conlin
              Yeah, but he had a real product and a real business plan. He didn t make his money selling snake oil, it was the other stuff. Those claims are just too
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007

                Yeah, but he had a real product and a real business plan.  He didn’t make his money selling snake oil, it was the other stuff.   Those claims are just too fantastic to be true, and every chat group needs a curmudgeon, which would be me!

                 

                 

                ________________________

                Kevin Conlin

                Solarcraft, Inc.

                4007 C Greenbriar

                Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                Local (281) 340-1224

                Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                Fax 281 340 1230

                kconlin@...

                www.solarcraft.net

                 

                Please make a note of our new contact information above.

                 


                From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:17 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Snake oil

                 

                At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened.

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM

                Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

                 

                Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

                ____________ _________ ___

                Kevin Conlin

                Solarcraft, Inc.

                4007 C Greenbriar

                Stafford , TX 77477-4536

                Local (281) 340-1224

                Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                Fax 281 340 1230

                kconlin@solarcraft. net

                www.solarcraft. net

                Please make a note of our new contact information above.


                From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                Paul,

                 A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

                Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

                Remember the 3 stages of truth

                1) ridiculed

                2) violently opposed

                3) accepted as self evident

                Edward

                I

                   

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

                Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                getting the rod length right.

                BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                (which is false).

                Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                with them.

                Paul

                9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                >
                > Edward Kramer

                ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
                "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
                ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

              • Paul Archer
                ... Hey, now! I thought that was my position. Well, I suppose we can share. Paul
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
                  4:19pm, Kevin Conlin wrote:

                  > Yeah, but he had a real product and a real business plan. He didn't make
                  > his money selling snake oil, it was the other stuff. Those claims are just
                  > too fantastic to be true, and every chat group needs a curmudgeon, which
                  > would be me!
                  >

                  Hey, now! I thought that was my position. Well, I suppose we can share.

                  Paul
                • jmiggins
                  http://www.phact.org/e/z/doyle.htm I saw this guy Dennis Lee back in 99 or so and he had a real circus going on with the Free Energy Machine. google Better
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
                     
                    I saw this guy Dennis Lee back in 99 or so and he had a real circus going on with the Free Energy Machine.
                     
                    google Better World Technologies and read about the people he as duped over the years.  I wish it were true but it is a scam.
                     
                     
                    John Miggins
                    Harvest Solar Energy LLC
                    "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                    918-743-2299 office
                    918-521-6223 Cell
                    www.harvestsolar.net
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:01 PM
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil

                    4:19pm, Kevin Conlin wrote:

                    > Yeah, but he had a real product and a real business plan. He didn't make
                    > his money selling snake oil, it was the other stuff. Those claims are just
                    > too fantastic to be true, and every chat group needs a curmudgeon, which
                    > would be me!
                    >

                    Hey, now! I thought that was my position. Well, I suppose we can share.

                    Paul

                  • Susan Modikoane
                    I agree with Ed. Bees fly backwards and that is impossible. Edward Kramer wrote: Paul, A catalytical converter is an
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
                      I agree with Ed.  Bees fly backwards and that is impossible.

                      Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                      Paul,
                       
                       A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.
                      Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.
                      Remember the 3 stages of truth
                      1) ridiculed
                      2) violently opposed
                      3) accepted as self evident
                       
                      Edward
                      I
                       
                         
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                      Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                      never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                      goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                      using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                      pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                      But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                      still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                      Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                      engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                      are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                      So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                      to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                      mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                      mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                      getting the rod length right.

                      BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                      (which is false).

                      Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                      with them.

                      Paul

                      9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                      > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                      > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                      >
                      > Edward Kramer

                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
                      "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                      "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------


                      Get your own web address.
                      Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                    • Ed Sarlls
                      Water injection in WWII airplane engines wasn t for fuel economy, it let them run fuel rich mixtures to get more power, usually for a short time, without
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 24, 2007
                        Water injection in WWII airplane engines wasn't for fuel economy, it let them run fuel rich mixtures to get more power, usually for a short time, without burning exhaust valves.
                         
                        All of the auto manufacturers can increase mileage if we are willing to use smaller engines with the reduced acceleration. Most people don't buy the small engines currently available so there isn't much point in making even smaller ones. As the price of gasoline goes up the sales of small cars with small engines will increase.
                         
                        I can't wait for Myth Busters to try running a car on pickle juice!
                         
                        E. Sarlls
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:06 PM
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                        There was an airplane engine technology used extensively in WWII that injected water into the air/gas mixture before it reached the combustion chamber. It allowed the engine to run cooler and use less fuel as a bonus. The heat and oil breakdown was the big enemy of the giant old V12 piston engine powered aircraft.
                        The bottom line is simple, any company (GM) which has an estimated trillion dollars of worldwide assets that cannot make an ICE design achieve more than 20+ MPG is doing so deliberately.
                        Jim Duncan
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:02 AM
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                        For anyones information about this emerging technology, the Bush administration is well aware of this invention. They were invited to give a demonstration at the white house on Nov 1 and was cancelled, cancelled another 3 times in the last couple of months. With a new Congress, there is a slight shift in policy and changes.
                        As far as mileage goes, maybe thinking mpg of gasoline! A dually will never get 100 mpg, it is lucky to get 10. If you get get 30 in a working truck I would be on top of the world. IF a gas engine can operate on a 50 05 mixture of water and gas, wouldn;t that double the amount of mpg in gas /carbon  usage and decrease those co2 emmissions by that factor. I hope you saw the video and witness a ic engine ooperating on a 60-40 mixture of gas and water.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:33 AM
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Energy policy

                        I seriously question the claim which this website makes regarding such dramatic increases in fuel efficiency. While I do not proclaim to be an ICE expert I am versed in the laws of thermodynamics and basic chemical kinetics. A major limiting factor of an ICE is the fact that the available temperature differential within the engine limits efficiency to roughly 40% (second law of thermodynamics) . Secondly, the car itself is limited by basic physics namely the weight of the vehicle requiring a min. force to propel it. Taking into consideration drag coefficient and tire friction further reduces efficiency- completely indepedent of the prime mover. Why are modern cars more efficient? Because of numerous advances in several technological fronts such as: engine blocks made of Al. instead of steel to provide enhanced heat dissapation (and higher temperature differential) , plastic bodies weighing a fraction of traditional steel bodies, tires with lower friction coefficients, enhanced aerodynamics of the vehicles, fuel injection... .

                        My point is that there is no single silver bullet which can boost car efficiency by an enormous amount. Every engineering improvement requires certain tradeoffs. You can't make a 2 ton Ford dually truck get 100 mpg no matter what magical prime mover it is using- it simply weighs too much and has the aerodynamics of a brick. Conversely, a lighweight, low profile sedan with far reduced horsepower, acceleration and top speed can easily obtain 100 mpg.

                        I support research and development into improving efficiency, but broad based claims and superficial "conspiracy theories" serve no good to the scientific commmunity. If something appears to be too good to be true- it most likely is.

                        Sean Kaylor 


                        From: "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@pdq. net>
                        Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                        To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
                        Subject: [hreg] Energy policy
                        Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:11:23 -0600

                        Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night.  Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                        converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                         
                        Edward Kramer


                      • johnjackwagner2
                        Hi all - just read about this new technology and was wondering what other folks think. No snake oil here - I don t think. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=usse.pk
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007
                          Hi all - just read about this new technology and was wondering what
                          other folks think. No snake oil here - I don't think.

                          http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=usse.pk


                          --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Sarlls" <edsarlls@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Water injection in WWII airplane engines wasn't for fuel economy,
                          it let them run fuel rich mixtures to get more power, usually for a
                          short time, without burning exhaust valves.
                          >
                          > All of the auto manufacturers can increase mileage if we are
                          willing to use smaller engines with the reduced acceleration. Most
                          people don't buy the small engines currently available so there
                          isn't much point in making even smaller ones. As the price of
                          gasoline goes up the sales of small cars with small engines will
                          increase.
                          >
                          > I can't wait for Myth Busters to try running a car on pickle juice!
                          >
                          > E. Sarlls
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Jim & Janet
                          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:06 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > There was an airplane engine technology used extensively in WWII
                          that injected water into the air/gas mixture before it reached the
                          combustion chamber. It allowed the engine to run cooler and use less
                          fuel as a bonus. The heat and oil breakdown was the big enemy of the
                          giant old V12 piston engine powered aircraft.
                          > The bottom line is simple, any company (GM) which has an
                          estimated trillion dollars of worldwide assets that cannot make an
                          ICE design achieve more than 20+ MPG is doing so deliberately.
                          > Jim Duncan
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Edward Kramer
                          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:02 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > For anyones information about this emerging technology, the
                          Bush administration is well aware of this invention. They were
                          invited to give a demonstration at the white house on Nov 1 and was
                          cancelled, cancelled another 3 times in the last couple of months.
                          With a new Congress, there is a slight shift in policy and changes.
                          > As far as mileage goes, maybe thinking mpg of gasoline! A
                          dually will never get 100 mpg, it is lucky to get 10. If you get get
                          30 in a working truck I would be on top of the world. IF a gas
                          engine can operate on a 50 05 mixture of water and gas, wouldn;t
                          that double the amount of mpg in gas /carbon usage and decrease
                          those co2 emmissions by that factor. I hope you saw the video and
                          witness a ic engine ooperating on a 60-40 mixture of gas and water.
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Sean Kaylor
                          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:33 AM
                          > Subject: RE: [hreg] Energy policy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I seriously question the claim which this website makes
                          regarding such dramatic increases in fuel efficiency. While I do not
                          proclaim to be an ICE expert I am versed in the laws of
                          thermodynamics and basic chemical kinetics. A major limiting factor
                          of an ICE is the fact that the available temperature differential
                          within the engine limits efficiency to roughly 40% (second law of
                          thermodynamics). Secondly, the car itself is limited by basic
                          physics namely the weight of the vehicle requiring a min. force to
                          propel it Taking into consideration drag coefficient and tire
                          friction further reduces efficiency- completely indepedent of the
                          prime mover. Why are modern cars more efficient? Because of numerous
                          advances in several technological fronts such as: engine blocks made
                          of Al. instead of steel to provide enhanced heat dissapation (and
                          higher temperature differential), plastic bodies weighing a fraction
                          of traditional steel bodies, tires with lower friction coefficients,
                          enhanced aerodynamics of the vehicles, fuel injection....
                          >
                          > My point is that there is no single silver bullet which can
                          boost car efficiency by an enormous amount. Every engineering
                          improvement requires certain tradeoffs. You can't make a 2 ton Ford
                          dually truck get 100 mpg no matter what magical prime mover it is
                          using- it simply weighs too much and has the aerodynamics of a
                          brick. Conversely, a lighweight, low profile sedan with far reduced
                          horsepower, acceleration and top speed can easily obtain 100 mpg.
                          >
                          > I support research and development into improving
                          efficiency, but broad based claims and superficial "conspiracy
                          theories" serve no good to the scientific commmunity. If something
                          appears to be too good to be true- it most likely is.
                          >
                          > Sean Kaylor
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                          -----
                          > From: "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...>
                          > Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          > To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Subject: [hreg] Energy policy
                          > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:11:23 -0600
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new
                          energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that
                          in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about
                          the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was
                          there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient
                          or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there
                          is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC
                          engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas
                          mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                          > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05
                          mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing
                          stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested,
                          there is a 30 minute video on their website for more
                          info.www.preignitioncc.com.
                          >
                          > Edward Kramer
                          >
                        • Jack Wagner (HSN)
                          Ops - wrong link. http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/070125/0207466.html ________________________________ From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007

                            Ops – wrong link.

                             

                            http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/070125/0207466.html

                             


                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ed Sarlls
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:40 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                             

                            Water injection in WWII airplane engines wasn't for fuel economy, it let them run fuel rich mixtures to get more power, usually for a short time, without burning exhaust valves.

                             

                            All of the auto manufacturers can increase mileage if we are willing to use smaller engines with the reduced acceleration. Most people don't buy the small engines currently available so there isn't much point in making even smaller ones. As the price of gasoline goes up the sales of small cars with small engines will increase.

                             

                            I can't wait for Myth Busters to try running a car on pickle juice!

                             

                            E. Sarlls

                             

                             

                            ----- Original Message -----

                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:06 PM

                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                             

                            There was an airplane engine technology used extensively in WWII that injected water into the air/gas mixture before it reached the combustion chamber. It allowed the engine to run cooler and use less fuel as a bonus. The heat and oil breakdown was the big enemy of the giant old V12 piston engine powered aircraft.

                            The bottom line is simple, any company (GM) which has an estimated trillion dollars of worldwide assets that cannot make an ICE design achieve more than 20+ MPG is doing so deliberately.

                            Jim Duncan

                             

                            ----- Original Message -----

                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:02 AM

                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                             

                            For anyones information about this emerging technology, the Bush administration is well aware of this invention. They were invited to give a demonstration at the white house on Nov 1 and was cancelled, cancelled another 3 times in the last couple of months. With a new Congress, there is a slight shift in policy and changes.

                            As far as mileage goes, maybe thinking mpg of gasoline! A dually will never get 100 mpg, it is lucky to get 10. If you get get 30 in a working truck I would be on top of the world. IF a gas engine can operate on a 50 05 mixture of water and gas, wouldn;t that double the amount of mpg in gas /carbon  usage and decrease those co2 emmissions by that factor. I hope you saw the video and witness a ic engine ooperating on a 60-40 mixture of gas and water.

                            ----- Original Message -----

                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:33 AM

                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Energy policy

                             

                            I seriously question the claim which this website makes regarding such dramatic increases in fuel efficiency. While I do not proclaim to be an ICE expert I am versed in the laws of thermodynamics and basic chemical kinetics. A major limiting factor of an ICE is the fact that the available temperature differential within the engine limits efficiency to roughly 40% (second law of thermodynamics) . Secondly, the car itself is limited by basic physics namely the weight of the vehicle requiring a min. force to propel it. Taking into consideration drag coefficient and tire friction further reduces efficiency- completely indepedent of the prime mover. Why are modern cars more efficient? Because of numerous advances in several technological fronts such as: engine blocks made of Al. instead of steel to provide enhanced heat dissapation (and higher temperature differential) , plastic bodies weighing a fraction of traditional steel bodies, tires with lower friction coefficients, enhanced aerodynamics of the vehicles, fuel injection... .

                            My point is that there is no single silver bullet which can boost car efficiency by an enormous amount. Every engineering improvement requires certain tradeoffs. You can't make a 2 ton Ford dually truck get 100 mpg no matter what magical prime mover it is using- it simply weighs too much and has the aerodynamics of a brick. Conversely, a lighweight, low profile sedan with far reduced horsepower, acceleration and top speed can easily obtain 100 mpg.

                            I support research and development into improving efficiency, but broad based claims and superficial "conspiracy theories" serve no good to the scientific commmunity. If something appears to be too good to be true- it most likely is.

                            Sean Kaylor 


                            From: "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@pdq. net>
                            Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                            To: < hreg@yahoogroups. com >
                            Subject: [hreg] Energy policy
                            Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:11:23 -0600

                            Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night.  Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic

                            converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.

                             

                            Edward Kramer

                             

                          • Shafer, Mark B
                            Did you mean Edwin Drake? He is the father of drilling for oil wells. He is the one who kicked off Titusville oil field. ________________________________
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007
                              Did you mean Edwin Drake?  He is the father of drilling for oil wells.  He is the one who kicked off Titusville oil field.

                              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edward Kramer
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:17 PM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Snake oil

                              At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM
                              Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

                              Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

                              ____________ _________ ___

                              Kevin Conlin

                              Solarcraft, Inc.

                              4007 C Greenbriar

                              Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                              Local (281) 340-1224

                              Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                              Fax 281 340 1230

                              kconlin@solarcraft. net

                              www.solarcraft. net

                              Please make a note of our new contact information above.


                              From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                              Paul,

                               A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

                              Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

                              Remember the 3 stages of truth

                              1) ridiculed

                              2) violently opposed

                              3) accepted as self evident

                              Edward

                              I

                                 

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                              Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                              never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                              goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                              using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                              pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                              But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                              still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                              Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                              engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                              are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                              So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                              to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                              mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                              mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                              getting the rod length right.

                              BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                              (which is false).

                              Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                              with them.

                              Paul

                              9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                              > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                              > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                              >
                              > Edward Kramer

                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
                              "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                              "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

                            • Kevin Conlin
                              Sure Paul, I m an equal opportunity curmudgeon! ________________________ Kevin Conlin Solarcraft, Inc. 4007 C Greenbriar Stafford, TX 77477-4536 Local (281)
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007

                                Sure Paul, I’m an equal opportunity curmudgeon!

                                 

                                 

                                ________________________

                                Kevin Conlin

                                Solarcraft, Inc.

                                4007 C Greenbriar

                                Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                                Local (281) 340-1224

                                Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                                Fax 281 340 1230

                                kconlin@...

                                www.solarcraft.net

                                 

                                Please make a note of our new contact information above.

                                 


                                From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:01 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil

                                 

                                4:19pm, Kevin Conlin wrote:

                                > Yeah, but he had a real product and a real business plan. He didn't make
                                > his money selling snake oil, it was the other stuff. Those claims are just
                                > too fantastic to be true, and every chat group needs a curmudgeon, which
                                > would be me!
                                >

                                Hey, now! I thought that was my position. Well, I suppose we can share.

                                Paul

                              • Robert Johnston
                                This whole topic was argued many months ago, and you were warned not to waste money investing in this scheme. I wish it wouldn t be promoted here, as anyone
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007

                                  This whole topic was argued many months ago, and you were warned not to waste money investing in this scheme.  I wish it wouldn’t be promoted here, as anyone who buys it will have been scammed and I hate to see HREG develop a reputation for fraudulent schemes based on pseudoscience or worse.

                                   

                                  Paul has done an excellent job of arguing against this.  If you go back in the archives, you can also find emails from me that provide links to websites that document the fraud that this in fact is.

                                   

                                  No offense intended to you, Ed, but even while you experiment, please don’t promote here.  And, for every new idea that is initially ridiculed before being accepted, there are probably a thousand that are ridiculed with justification and are ultimately rejected.  If you don’t believe that, I have a new a perpetual motion machine to sell you.  Offline, of course!

                                   

                                  Just one quick comment on the technical side.  If I understood you correctly, you believe that hydrogen is the energy carrier in water, and it is wasted when water drips out of an exhaust pipe.  If the hydrogen were in its reduced state, it would have energy available to release upon oxidation (reaction with oxygen).  However, in water, it is in the oxidized state, so it is no longer a (useable) energy carrier.  The energy was released as heat (and light, depending on how it was done) when the oxygen and hydrogen came together to form water.  There’s even a name for this energy:  it is the heat of formation.  You can look up in a standard reference book the heat of formation of water from hydrogen and oxygen.  That’s the quantity of heat released when water is formed.

                                   

                                  Robert

                                   

                                   


                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Edward Kramer
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:17 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Snake oil

                                   

                                  At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa , look what happened.

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM

                                  Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

                                   

                                  Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

                                  ____________ _________ ___

                                  Kevin Conlin

                                  Solarcraft, Inc.

                                  4007 C Greenbriar

                                  Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                                  Local (281) 340-1224

                                  Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                                  Fax 281 340 1230

                                  kconlin@solarcraft. net

                                  www.solarcraft. net

                                  Please make a note of our new contact information above.


                                  From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                  Paul,

                                   A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

                                  Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

                                  Remember the 3 stages of truth

                                  1) ridiculed

                                  2) violently opposed

                                  3) accepted as self evident

                                  Edward

                                  I

                                     

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                  Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                                  never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                                  goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                                  using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                                  pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                                  But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                                  still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                                  Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                                  engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                                  are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                                  So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                                  to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                                  mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                                  mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                                  getting the rod length right.

                                  BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                                  (which is false).

                                  Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                                  with them.

                                  Paul

                                  9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                                  > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                                  > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                                  >
                                  > Edward Kramer

                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
                                  "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                                  "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                • Kevin Conlin
                                  Susan, At the risk of being yelled at for being off topic, it is a well known and documented fact that both bees and hummingbirds can fly backwards. In light
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007

                                    Susan, At the risk of being yelled at for being off topic, it is a well known and documented fact that both bees and hummingbirds can fly backwards.  In light of the obvious evidence, why would you say that is impossible?  I’m not sure I understand the context of your comment.

                                     

                                    Regards,  Kevin

                                     

                                     

                                    ________________________

                                    Kevin Conlin

                                    Solarcraft, Inc.

                                    4007 C Greenbriar

                                    Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                                    Local (281) 340-1224

                                    Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                                    Fax 281 340 1230

                                    kconlin@...

                                    www.solarcraft.net

                                     

                                    Please make a note of our new contact information above.

                                     


                                    From: Susan Modikoane [mailto:suemodikoane@...]
                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:06 PM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                     

                                    I agree with Ed.  Bees fly backwards and that is impossible.

                                    Edward Kramer <onekindr@pdq. net> wrote:

                                    Paul,

                                     

                                     A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

                                    Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

                                    Remember the 3 stages of truth

                                    1) ridiculed

                                    2) violently opposed

                                    3) accepted as self evident

                                     

                                    Edward

                                    I

                                     

                                       

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                     

                                    Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                                    never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                                    goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                                    using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                                    pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                                    But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                                    still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                                    Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                                    engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                                    are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                                    So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                                    to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                                    mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                                    mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                                    getting the rod length right.

                                    BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                                    (which is false).

                                    Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                                    with them.

                                    Paul

                                    9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                                    > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                                    > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                                    >
                                    > Edward Kramer

                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
                                    "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                                    "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                     

                                     


                                    Get your own web address.
                                    Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                                  • Sean Kaylor
                                    Robert- I agree with your description of the catalytic process. I might just add several points: First most automoblies use a two stage cataysis process. The
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jan 25, 2007

                                      Robert-

                                      I agree with your description of the catalytic process. I might just add several points: First most automoblies use a two stage cataysis process. The first stage uses a Platnium type material which when hot CO and hydrocarbon gas pass over it the hydrogen bonds are weakened resulting in a large majority of the reactants turning to CO2 and H2O. This is process is oxidation (for the CO only). The second stage catalyist reduces NOX to diatomic nitrogen and oxygen. However, the actual catalysis process is not fully understood, it still is somewhat of a black art.

                                      As for the product posted on the internet, I wish they would provide more technical specs. on their product. I watched most of the video but it was so vague I just skipped through it looking for some meat and potatoes information. How exactly do these guys propose boosting engine efficency? There's all this talk about a catalysis which produces hydrogen (which is presume is fed back into the engine intake). I can't possibly imagine how they are accomplishing this. I've been doing some research on producing hydrogen from fuel sources (mostly bio fuels and waste fuel residuals) through a catalysis reaction for my masters thesis. Every proposal I've read uses a reaction process carried at around 800 - 1,000C and 200+ bar. I seriously doubt these guys are achieving such temps and pressures. Does anyone have specs. (not internet hype) for this product?

                                      Sean 


                                      From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                                      Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil
                                      Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:51:49 -0600

                                      This whole topic was argued many months ago, and you were warned not to waste money investing in this scheme.  I wish it wouldn�t be promoted here, as anyone who buys it will have been scammed and I hate to see HREG develop a reputation for fraudulent schemes based on pseudoscience or worse.

                                       

                                      Paul has done an excellent job of arguing against this.  If you go back in the archives, you can also find emails from me that provide links to websites that document the fraud that this in fact is.

                                       

                                      No offense intended to you, Ed, but even while you experiment, please don�t promote here.  And, for every new idea that is initially ridiculed before being accepted, there are probably a thousand that are ridiculed with justification and are ultimately rejected.  If you don�t believe that, I have a new a perpetual motion machine to sell you.  Offline, of course!

                                       

                                      Just one quick comment on the technical side.  If I understood you correctly, you believe that hydrogen is the energy carrier in water, and it is wasted when water drips out of an exhaust pipe.  If the hydrogen were in its reduced state, it would have energy available to release upon oxidation (reaction with oxygen).  However, in water, it is in the oxidized state, so it is no longer a (useable) energy carrier.  The energy was released as heat (and light, depending on how it was done) when the oxygen and hydrogen came together to form water.  There�s even a name for this energy:  it is the heat of formation.  You can look up in a standard reference book the heat of formation of water from hydrogen and oxygen.  That�s the quantity of heat released when water is formed.

                                       

                                      Robert

                                       

                                       


                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Edward Kramer
                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:17 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Snake oil

                                       

                                      At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened.

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM

                                      Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

                                       

                                      Boy, I�d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I�m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

                                      ____________ _________ ___

                                      Kevin Conlin

                                      Solarcraft, Inc.

                                      4007 C Greenbriar

                                      Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                                      Local (281) 340-1224

                                      Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                                      Fax 281 340 1230

                                      kconlin@solarcraft. net

                                      www.solarcraft. net

                                      Please make a note of our new contact information above.


                                      From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                      Paul,

                                       A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

                                      Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

                                      Remember the 3 stages of truth

                                      1) ridiculed

                                      2) violently opposed

                                      3) accepted as self evident

                                      Edward

                                      I

                                         

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                      Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                                      never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                                      goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                                      using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                                      pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                                      But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                                      still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                                      Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                                      engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                                      are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                                      So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                                      to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                                      mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                                      mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                                      getting the rod length right.

                                      BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                                      (which is false).

                                      Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                                      with them.

                                      Paul

                                      9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                                      > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                                      > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                                      >
                                      > Edward Kramer

                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
                                      "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                                      "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------


                                    • Ed Sarlls
                                      The hype is the con artists secret! Unfortunately a lot of people get drawn in by enthusiasm and spend a lot of effort on something that doesn t have any
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jan 26, 2007
                                        The hype is the con artists secret!
                                         
                                        Unfortunately a lot of people get drawn in by enthusiasm and spend a lot of effort on something that doesn't have any substance.
                                         
                                        Look at the principals involved, their track record, past successes or failures, their financial backers. This isn't a guarantee but it will weed out a lot of the misguided enthusiasts and con artists.  
                                         
                                        The video looked to me more like a magic show than a scientific experiment.
                                         
                                        I've been an engineer for almost 50 years and I have seen a lot of people who thought that were on the verge of discovering the secrete of unlimited energy, anti-gravity ( actually a government program), commuter airplanes ( there are a couple that were technical successes), or some other great achievement. I worked with an engineer who built a steam car in the 80s - a brilliant technical success but economic failure because it cost too much finances dried up. 
                                         
                                        I review a lot of the technical concepts that are presented to the Space Alliance Technology Outreach Program for technical assistance. If anyone is interested in that program see http://www.spacetechsolutions.com/.
                                         
                                        We have more than one Ed on here so don't get me confused with one of the others.
                                         
                                        I can always spare a little time if anyone wants to contact me directly. There are thousands of ideas out there, a few are ready for prime time and some will never make it either because of some minor technical problems or major defects. If you have one that looks good I'll help get it submitted to SATOP.
                                         
                                        Ed Sarlls
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:35 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil

                                        Robert-

                                        I agree with your description of the catalytic process. I might just add several points: First most automoblies use a two stage cataysis process. The first stage uses a Platnium type material which when hot CO and hydrocarbon gas pass over it the hydrogen bonds are weakened resulting in a large majority of the reactants turning to CO2 and H2O. This is process is oxidation (for the CO only). The second stage catalyist reduces NOX to diatomic nitrogen and oxygen. However, the actual catalysis process is not fully understood, it still is somewhat of a black art.

                                        As for the product posted on the internet, I wish they would provide more technical specs. on their product. I watched most of the video but it was so vague I just skipped through it looking for some meat and potatoes information. How exactly do these guys propose boosting engine efficency? There's all this talk about a catalysis which produces hydrogen (which is presume is fed back into the engine intake). I can't possibly imagine how they are accomplishing this. I've been doing some research on producing hydrogen from fuel sources (mostly bio fuels and waste fuel residuals) through a catalysis reaction for my masters thesis. Every proposal I've read uses a reaction process carried at around 800 - 1,000C and 200+ bar. I seriously doubt these guys are achieving such temps and pressures. Does anyone have specs. (not internet hype) for this product?

                                        Sean 


                                        From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@plastability. com>
                                        Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Snake oil
                                        Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:51:49 -0600

                                        This whole topic was argued many months ago, and you were warned not to waste money investing in this scheme.  I wish it wouldn’t be promoted here, as anyone who buys it will have been scammed and I hate to see HREG develop a reputation for fraudulent schemes based on pseudoscience or worse.

                                         

                                        Paul has done an excellent job of arguing against this.  If you go back in the archives, you can also find emails from me that provide links to websites that document the fraud that this in fact is.

                                         

                                        No offense intended to you, Ed, but even while you experiment, please don’t promote here.  And, for every new idea that is initially ridiculed before being accepted, there are probably a thousand that are ridiculed with justification and are ultimately rejected.  If you don’t believe that, I have a new a perpetual motion machine to sell you.  Offline, of course!

                                         

                                        Just one quick comment on the technical side.  If I understood you correctly, you believe that hydrogen is the energy carrier in water, and it is wasted when water drips out of an exhaust pipe.  If the hydrogen were in its reduced state, it would have energy available to release upon oxidation (reaction with oxygen).  However, in water, it is in the oxidized state, so it is no longer a (useable) energy carrier.  The energy was released as heat (and light, depending on how it was done) when the oxygen and hydrogen came together to form water.  There’s even a name for this energy:  it is the heat of formation.  You can look up in a standard reference book the heat of formation of water from hydrogen and oxygen.  That’s the quantity of heat released when water is formed.

                                         

                                        Robert

                                         

                                         


                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups. com [mailto:hreg@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Edward Kramer
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:17 PM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Snake oil

                                         

                                        At one time Rockefeller was a snake oil salesman in Titusville Pa, look what happened.

                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:28 PM

                                        Subject: [hreg] Snake oil

                                         

                                        Boy, I’d have to agree with Paul, any company that makes those types of claims is surely suspect, I’m not an advocate of the conspiracy theory that says these types of inventions are bought and suppressed by big oil and big auto.  If this was real you can bet the majors would be using this technology to their advantage, especially the Asian manufacturers.  Sounds totally like snake oil to me.

                                        ____________ _________ ___

                                        Kevin Conlin

                                        Solarcraft, Inc.

                                        4007 C Greenbriar

                                        Stafford, TX 77477-4536

                                        Local (281) 340-1224

                                        Toll Free (877) 340-1224

                                        Fax 281 340 1230

                                        kconlin@solarcraft. net

                                        www.solarcraft. net

                                        Please make a note of our new contact information above.


                                        From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@ pdq.net]
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:44 PM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                        Paul,

                                         A catalytical converter is an electrolysis process that creates the separation of hydrogen and oxygen, allowing the the carbon monoxide molecule to pick up a free oxygen molecule for air emmisions as CO2 in the exhaust. Ever see water dripping out of an exhaust pipe in traffic?  I  The hydrogen is the energy carrier which is wasted in the exhaust. If you ever saw hydrogen "carry energy, you would see the difference in energy usage as compared to carbon as a carrier. Hydrogen does not fan out like carbon, hence making an engine more efficient.  That is what this technology is really all about-making an IC engine more efficient in the use of energy. I have been making hydrogen since the summer and  I am still here, not blown up. totally amazed about how safe and efficient the process is.

                                        Please, anyone make their own conclusions  from the video and lets not get into a verbal war. I am not the inventor and am waiting for the units to be available for sale before go  I go further on the sucess and claims by the company.

                                        Remember the 3 stages of truth

                                        1) ridiculed

                                        2) violently opposed

                                        3) accepted as self evident

                                        Edward

                                        I

                                           

                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:53 AM

                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Energy policy

                                        Ed, after watching only 5 minutes of their promotional video, I can say I've
                                        never seen anything that looks so much like snake oil. Cutting a rod that
                                        goes in the fuel line (a critical component, according to the narrator) by
                                        using a compass to figure out where to cut? Please! Running the engine on
                                        pickle juice and coke? Whatever.
                                        But the kicker: cutting off the exhaust and claiming that the engine can
                                        still run? Ridiculous, and proof positive that they're faking.
                                        Then they say that their system vaporizes fuel before it gets to the
                                        engine, and then claim that additives to gas that help prevent line vapors
                                        are somehow part of a conspiracy to keep fuel mileage low.

                                        So, what's their angle? A "reactor rod" that goes in the fuel line, and has
                                        to be changed when the gas formulations change (as in from summer to winter
                                        mixtures). If the reactor rod isn't the right length, you won't get better
                                        mileage. So you buy their kit, then you spend all your money and time
                                        getting the rod length right.

                                        BTW, they're saying that normal catalytic converters burn exhaust gasses
                                        (which is false).

                                        Ed, I'd take a long, hard, critical look at this before I wasted any money
                                        with them.

                                        Paul

                                        9:11am, Edward Kramer wrote:

                                        > Did anyone see the real soloution to the Presidents new energy proposal in his speech last night. Isn't it convienent that in ten years the country will reduce gasoline usage by 20%, about the same time the Saudi Oilfields will become like spindletop! Was there one mention of making the internal combustion more efficient or is it status quo-let another generation choke on it. Well there is cutting edge technology that reverses the efficiency of an IC engine fronm around 18% to around 80% thus increasing tyupical gas mileage by a factor of 300%-400%. It is a modified catalytic
                                        > converter that will allow an engine to operate on a 50 05 mixture of gas and water if so desired. Its in the final testing stage and should be ready for market by spring. If your interested, there is a 30 minute video on their website for more info.www.preignitio ncc.com.
                                        >
                                        > Edward Kramer

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                                        "Isn't that breaking and entering?"
                                        "Oh, pish. It can't be a crime if it's catered!"
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