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Re: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

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  • Steve Shepard
    I find this thread puzzling. Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets. That people still
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 16, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      I find this thread puzzling.
       
      Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets.
       
      That people still consider it exotic and rare is a strange curiosity.
       
      SBT Designs
      25840 IH-10 West #1
      Boerne, Texas 78006
      210-698-7109
      www.sbtdesigns.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:22 PM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

      I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
      comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

      If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
      you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
      spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
      equivalent CF tube referred to).  I found them to be reasonably priced
      at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com.  You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
      candle bulb for $11.90 there.  A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
      $28.40.  A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95.  A Philips 20W recessed
      lighting reflector bulb is $28.40.  Another site I found them at was at
      www.dsenterprise.com.  They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
      medium
      or candelabra bases.

      At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
      of
      early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
      a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
      further before buying that brand.  I should think the bigger brands like
      Phillips,
      GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part.  I
      suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
      the same Chinese factories.

      You can also find many online resources on LED's.  They are quite expensive.
      They
      are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
      lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs).  Springlamp sells
      them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
      too).
      You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
      www.jademountain.com,
      with LED's specifically at
      www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
      Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
      socket,
      to $108 for a 24 LED device.

      A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
      available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
      means), is:  www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html.  The National Research
      Council
      of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
      construction
      industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
      well.

      One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
      when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents.  He
      uses
      them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

      Hope this helps,

      Robert Johnston




      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
      > To: hreg@egroups.com
      > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
      >
      >
      > HREG,
      >
      > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
      > neighborhoods after the
      > sun has set.  The following message refers to two lighting products of
      > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
      > 45 Watts) and a
      > red ganged-LED light.
      >
      > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
      > appropriate.
      >
      > Jonathan
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
      > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
      > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
      >
      >
      > > This just in from the hardware store!
      > >
      > > I saw two new items of note.  The first was a Lights of
      > America compact
      > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
      >  At $17.99,
      > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
      > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
      > It uses 45
      > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
      > larger 25-watt
      > > bulbs.  Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
      > I've eliminated
      > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
      > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
      > persuade people
      > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
      > >
      > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
      > eight, inside a
      > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
      > > replacing exit lamp bulbs.  I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
      > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years!  I think it was $19.95
      > or $24.95,
      > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
      > And I think
      > > the wattage would be under one watt.  LED's seem to have a fairly
      > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
      > are considered
      > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent.  I also have no
      > candelabra bases,
      > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
      > with white
      > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
      > candelabra lamps in
      > > the world efficient.
      > >
      > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
      > a while, as
      > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
      > but this is
      > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
      > as simple as
      > > replacing the bulb.  The cost will frighten some people,
      > but at 7 cents
      > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
      > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
      > bulbs.  I have no
      > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
      > buy a base
      > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
      > > way.  The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
      > system told me
      > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
      > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
      > > compared to the generator backup system required for
      > incandescent bulbs.
      > >
      > > Happy shopping!
      > >
      > > - Ned
      > >
      > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
      > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
      > > For help in managing your subscription, or
      > questions/comments about the
      > Energy
      > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
      >
      >
      >
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      > -------------------------~-~>
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    • Robert Johnston
      It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF s for enclosed
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 17, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying
        to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF's for enclosed fixtures.  I had only just discovered that such
        CF's now exist.  They are not available in any of the local stores, nor do they even know about them.
        Lowes, for example, has many of the standard CF's, but no dimmable ones, nor candelabra ones, nor
        spotlights.  And most of what they have are not even recommended for use in enclosed fixtures.  So
        it is not surprising to me that neither myself nor many other people know that much about them.  For
        the same reason, it is not surprising that most homes in the area are lit by incandescents.  This is
        a real opportunity for us to learn more about these and share that knowledge with our friends and
        neighbors for the good of all.
         
        I see from your website that you guys do X-10 systems too.  Maybe you could comment on your
        experience with X-10 and CF's.  The reason I have been holding off on CF's in my house until just
        a couple months ago when I discovered the Springlamp dimmable CF's is that I didn't think that
        the conventional CF's would be compatible with my X-10 wall switches or Enerlogic X-10 control
        system.  Several years ago I replaced most switches with X-10 wall switches and the Enerlogic
        controller so that I could save energy by controlling the lights in the house, some with motion
        detectors, and others on computer controlled sequences (e.g., turn the kids' lights off periodically
        since they always forget).  Have you used any CF's besides the new dimmable ones on X-10
        switched circuits?  Is there a fire hazard in doing so?
         
        Somewhat off-topic, I'd also be curious to know if you know of X-10 switches that have longer
        lifetime than the Powerhouse X-10 switches I buy locally, yet without the high cost of the Leviton
        switches.  My X-10 switches only seem to last about 3 years before the switch fails in various
        ways.  I'm tempted to rip the system out, which would also let me get the standard CF's!
         
         
        Robert Johnston
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Steve Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
        Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:37 PM
        To: hreg@egroups.com
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

        I find this thread puzzling.
         
        Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets.
         
        That people still consider it exotic and rare is a strange curiosity.
         
        SBT Designs
        25840 IH-10 West #1
        Boerne, Texas 78006
        210-698-7109
        www.sbtdesigns.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:22 PM
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

        I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
        comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

        If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
        you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
        spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
        equivalent CF tube referred to).  I found them to be reasonably priced
        at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com.  You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
        candle bulb for $11.90 there.  A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
        $28.40.  A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95.  A Philips 20W recessed
        lighting reflector bulb is $28.40.  Another site I found them at was at
        www.dsenterprise.com.  They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
        medium
        or candelabra bases.

        At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
        of
        early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
        a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
        further before buying that brand.  I should think the bigger brands like
        Phillips,
        GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part.  I
        suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
        the same Chinese factories.

        You can also find many online resources on LED's.  They are quite expensive.
        They
        are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
        lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs).  Springlamp sells
        them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
        too).
        You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
        www.jademountain.com,
        with LED's specifically at
        www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
        Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
        socket,
        to $108 for a 24 LED device.

        A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
        available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
        means), is:  www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html.  The National Research
        Council
        of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
        construction
        industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
        well.

        One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
        when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents.  He
        uses
        them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

        Hope this helps,

        Robert Johnston




        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
        > To: hreg@egroups.com
        > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
        >
        >
        > HREG,
        >
        > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
        > neighborhoods after the
        > sun has set.  The following message refers to two lighting products of
        > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
        > 45 Watts) and a
        > red ganged-LED light.
        >
        > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
        > appropriate.
        >
        > Jonathan
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
        > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
        > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
        > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
        >
        >
        > > This just in from the hardware store!
        > >
        > > I saw two new items of note.  The first was a Lights of
        > America compact
        > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
        >  At $17.99,
        > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
        > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
        > It uses 45
        > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
        > larger 25-watt
        > > bulbs.  Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
        > I've eliminated
        > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
        > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
        > persuade people
        > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
        > >
        > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
        > eight, inside a
        > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
        > > replacing exit lamp bulbs.  I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
        > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years!  I think it was $19.95
        > or $24.95,
        > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
        > And I think
        > > the wattage would be under one watt.  LED's seem to have a fairly
        > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
        > are considered
        > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent.  I also have no
        > candelabra bases,
        > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
        > with white
        > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
        > candelabra lamps in
        > > the world efficient.
        > >
        > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
        > a while, as
        > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
        > but this is
        > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
        > as simple as
        > > replacing the bulb.  The cost will frighten some people,
        > but at 7 cents
        > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
        > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
        > bulbs.  I have no
        > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
        > buy a base
        > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
        > > way.  The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
        > system told me
        > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
        > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
        > > compared to the generator backup system required for
        > incandescent bulbs.
        > >
        > > Happy shopping!
        > >
        > > - Ned
        > >
        > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
        > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
        > > For help in managing your subscription, or
        > questions/comments about the
        > Energy
        > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
        >
        >
        >
        > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
        > -------------------------~-~>
        > eGroups eLerts
        > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/58590/_/976809595/
        > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > -------_->
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



      • James Ferrill
        Check out http://www.smarthome.com/index.html and look on the X10 tab. Other links: http://www.geocities.com/~powersphere/powersphere/moreinfo.html
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 17, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Check out http://www.smarthome.com/index.html and look on the X10 tab.

          Other links:

          http://www.geocities.com/~powersphere/powersphere/moreinfo.html
          http://www.geocities.com/~powersphere/rcx-index/index.html
          http://www.homeautomation.com/

          James Ferrill

          At 10:03 AM 12/17/2000, you wrote:
          It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying
          to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF's for enclosed fixtures.  I had only just discovered that such
          CF's now exist.  They are not available in any of the local stores, nor do they even know about them.
          Lowes, for example, has many of the standard CF's, but no dimmable ones, nor candelabra ones, nor
          spotlights.  And most of what they have are not even recommended for use in enclosed fixtures.  So
          it is not surprising to me that neither myself nor many other people know that much about them.  For
          the same reason, it is not surprising that most homes in the area are lit by incandescents.  This is
          a real opportunity for us to learn more about these and share that knowledge with our friends and
          neighbors for the good of all.
           
          I see from your website that you guys do X-10 systems too.  Maybe you could comment on your
          experience with X-10 and CF's.  The reason I have been holding off on CF's in my house until just
          a couple months ago when I discovered the Springlamp dimmable CF's is that I didn't think that
          the conventional CF's would be compatible with my X-10 wall switches or Enerlogic X-10 control
          system.  Several years ago I replaced most switches with X-10 wall switches and the Enerlogic
          controller so that I could save energy by controlling the lights in the house, some with motion
          detectors, and others on computer controlled sequences (e.g., turn the kids' lights off periodically
          since they always forget).  Have you used any CF's besides the new dimmable ones on X-10
          switched circuits?  Is there a fire hazard in doing so?
           
          Somewhat off-topic, I'd also be curious to know if you know of X-10 switches that have longer
          lifetime than the Powerhouse X-10 switches I buy locally, yet without the high cost of the Leviton
          switches.  My X-10 switches only seem to last about 3 years before the switch fails in various
          ways.  I'm tempted to rip the system out, which would also let me get the standard CF's!
           

        • Andrew McCalla
          All, Thanks to Robert for the litany of resources regarding CF s and high efficiency lamps in general. Unfortunately, I think there is still much work to be
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 18, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            All,

            Thanks to Robert for the litany of resources regarding CF's and high
            efficiency lamps in general.

            Unfortunately, I think there is still much work to be done in educating
            both retailers and consumers alike as to the virtues and benefits of CF
            lighting products. Not only do some people consider CF's exotic, but many
            more people do not even consider them as an available option. I don't find
            this very curious for the simple reason of exposure, or lack thereof in
            this case. Even though the lamps are available in numerous retail
            outlets, those outlets, in my opinion, are not numerous enough. Therfore,
            I think that any and all exposure is a good thing.

            And now, for some good news:

            Sub CF's for $4.95 delivered. I haven't tried these out, but at that
            price, it should be worth it to try some.

            http://www.pnl.gov/cfl/

            Andrew




            Andrew H. McCalla
            Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
            Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
            P.O. Box 5810
            Austin, TX 78763
            Tel: 512-477-3050
            Fax: 512-477-3035
            www.meridiansolar.com
          • Steve Shepard
            Our experience with CFs and powerline carrier control is that most X-10 products cannot control CFs properly. As a practice we do offer superior quality
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 18, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Our experience with CFs and powerline carrier control is that most "X-10" products cannot control CFs properly.
               
              As a practice we do offer superior quality powerline carrier switch receivers that can operate and switch CFs, common fluorescents, pumps and in fact the current rating on our ACT switch receivers is designed to handle a wide variety of electrical loads.  These switch receivers are also available as a dimming switch receiver.  These products are UL approved, have been available for about twenty years and there are no safety issues associated with their use.
               
              They do require some skills, experience and expertise to apply and install successfully because most consumers are not aware of the functional issues associated with the application of powerline carrier technology.  As an experienced vendor we have seen most of these technical issues and we pretty much know the solution to them all.
               
              The relation that control systems (home automation) has to the renewable energy industry is that when applied properly this technology and these systems can and do make a significant contribution towards energy savings in the home or office.
              We have married these two technologies in the past in a residential system that automatically disables home electrical systems at regular intervals (timed events) and when the electrical system is not required.
               
              We found there are additional challenges related to this marriage.  Unless the renewable energy system provides a fairly clean, true sine wave electrial environment it is almost not worth the effort. 
               
              I am familar with products you mention in your post.  Fortunately there are many more products available today that offer superior quality, performance and are easier to install, apply and maintain.  It is common knowledge in the industry that if you get six months or a year's service out of X-10 Powerhouse products you have pretty much got your money's worth.  The products we recommend and sell will pratically last the life of your home.  They do cost more and there is a reason.
               
              SBT Designs
              25840 IH-10 West #1
              Boerne, Texas 78006
              210-698-7109
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 10:03 AM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

              It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying
              to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF's for enclosed fixtures.  I had only just discovered that such
              CF's now exist.  They are not available in any of the local stores, nor do they even know about them.
              Lowes, for example, has many of the standard CF's, but no dimmable ones, nor candelabra ones, nor
              spotlights.  And most of what they have are not even recommended for use in enclosed fixtures.  So
              it is not surprising to me that neither myself nor many other people know that much about them.  For
              the same reason, it is not surprising that most homes in the area are lit by incandescents.  This is
              a real opportunity for us to learn more about these and share that knowledge with our friends and
              neighbors for the good of all.
               
              I see from your website that you guys do X-10 systems too.  Maybe you could comment on your
              experience with X-10 and CF's.  The reason I have been holding off on CF's in my house until just
              a couple months ago when I discovered the Springlamp dimmable CF's is that I didn't think that
              the conventional CF's would be compatible with my X-10 wall switches or Enerlogic X-10 control
              system.  Several years ago I replaced most switches with X-10 wall switches and the Enerlogic
              controller so that I could save energy by controlling the lights in the house, some with motion
              detectors, and others on computer controlled sequences (e.g., turn the kids' lights off periodically
              since they always forget).  Have you used any CF's besides the new dimmable ones on X-10
              switched circuits?  Is there a fire hazard in doing so?
               
              Somewhat off-topic, I'd also be curious to know if you know of X-10 switches that have longer
              lifetime than the Powerhouse X-10 switches I buy locally, yet without the high cost of the Leviton
              switches.  My X-10 switches only seem to last about 3 years before the switch fails in various
              ways.  I'm tempted to rip the system out, which would also let me get the standard CF's!
               
               
              Robert Johnston
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Steve Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
              Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:37 PM
              To: hreg@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

              I find this thread puzzling.
               
              Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets.
               
              That people still consider it exotic and rare is a strange curiosity.
               
              SBT Designs
              25840 IH-10 West #1
              Boerne, Texas 78006
              210-698-7109
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:22 PM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

              I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
              comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

              If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
              you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
              spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
              equivalent CF tube referred to).  I found them to be reasonably priced
              at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com.  You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
              candle bulb for $11.90 there.  A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
              $28.40.  A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95.  A Philips 20W recessed
              lighting reflector bulb is $28.40.  Another site I found them at was at
              www.dsenterprise.com.  They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
              medium
              or candelabra bases.

              At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
              of
              early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
              a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
              further before buying that brand.  I should think the bigger brands like
              Phillips,
              GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part.  I
              suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
              the same Chinese factories.

              You can also find many online resources on LED's.  They are quite expensive.
              They
              are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
              lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs).  Springlamp sells
              them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
              too).
              You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
              www.jademountain.com,
              with LED's specifically at
              www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
              Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
              socket,
              to $108 for a 24 LED device.

              A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
              available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
              means), is:  www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html.  The National Research
              Council
              of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
              construction
              industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
              well.

              One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
              when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents.  He
              uses
              them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

              Hope this helps,

              Robert Johnston




              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
              > To: hreg@egroups.com
              > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
              >
              >
              > HREG,
              >
              > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
              > neighborhoods after the
              > sun has set.  The following message refers to two lighting products of
              > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
              > 45 Watts) and a
              > red ganged-LED light.
              >
              > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
              > appropriate.
              >
              > Jonathan
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
              > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
              > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
              > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
              >
              >
              > > This just in from the hardware store!
              > >
              > > I saw two new items of note.  The first was a Lights of
              > America compact
              > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
              >  At $17.99,
              > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
              > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
              > It uses 45
              > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
              > larger 25-watt
              > > bulbs.  Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
              > I've eliminated
              > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
              > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
              > persuade people
              > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
              > >
              > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
              > eight, inside a
              > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
              > > replacing exit lamp bulbs.  I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
              > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years!  I think it was $19.95
              > or $24.95,
              > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
              > And I think
              > > the wattage would be under one watt.  LED's seem to have a fairly
              > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
              > are considered
              > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent.  I also have no
              > candelabra bases,
              > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
              > with white
              > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
              > candelabra lamps in
              > > the world efficient.
              > >
              > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
              > a while, as
              > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
              > but this is
              > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
              > as simple as
              > > replacing the bulb.  The cost will frighten some people,
              > but at 7 cents
              > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
              > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
              > bulbs.  I have no
              > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
              > buy a base
              > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
              > > way.  The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
              > system told me
              > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
              > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
              > > compared to the generator backup system required for
              > incandescent bulbs.
              > >
              > > Happy shopping!
              > >
              > > - Ned
              > >
              > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
              > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
              > > For help in managing your subscription, or
              > questions/comments about the
              > Energy
              > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
              >
              >
              >
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            • Robert Johnston
              Outstanding link! Thanks, Andrew!
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 3, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Outstanding link! Thanks, Andrew!
                > And now, for some good news:
                >
                > Sub CF's for $4.95 delivered. I haven't tried these out, but at that
                > price, it should be worth it to try some.
                >
                > http://www.pnl.gov/cfl/
                >
                > Andrew
                >
                >
                >
              • Ryan McMullan
                Has anyone tried these yet? I m curious what their light quality is like. Ryan
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 4, 2001
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                  Has anyone tried these yet? I'm curious what their light quality
                  is like.

                  Ryan

                  At 11:37 PM 1/3/01 -0600, you wrote:
                  >Outstanding link! Thanks, Andrew!
                  > > And now, for some good news:
                  > >
                  > > Sub CF's for $4.95 delivered. I haven't tried these out, but at that
                  > > price, it should be worth it to try some.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.pnl.gov/cfl/
                  > >
                  > > Andrew
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
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