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Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

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  • Jonathan Clemens
    HREG, It s that time of year that we try to light up the neighborhoods after the sun has set. The following message refers to two lighting products of
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 14, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      HREG,

      It's that time of year that we try to light up the neighborhoods after the
      sun has set. The following message refers to two lighting products of
      interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using 45 Watts) and a
      red ganged-LED light.

      For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be appropriate.

      Jonathan

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
      To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
      Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
      Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!


      > This just in from the hardware store!
      >
      > I saw two new items of note. The first was a Lights of America compact
      > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb! At $17.99,
      > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
      > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes. It uses 45
      > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the larger 25-watt
      > bulbs. Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too. I've eliminated
      > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
      > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't persuade people
      > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
      >
      > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about eight, inside a
      > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
      > replacing exit lamp bulbs. I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
      > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years! I think it was $19.95 or $24.95,
      > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it. And I think
      > the wattage would be under one watt. LED's seem to have a fairly
      > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's are considered
      > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent. I also have no candelabra bases,
      > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit with white
      > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those candelabra lamps in
      > the world efficient.
      >
      > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for a while, as
      > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps, but this is
      > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just as simple as
      > replacing the bulb. The cost will frighten some people, but at 7 cents
      > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
      > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the bulbs. I have no
      > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can buy a base
      > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
      > way. The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School system told me
      > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
      > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
      > compared to the generator backup system required for incandescent bulbs.
      >
      > Happy shopping!
      >
      > - Ned
      >
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
      > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
      > For help in managing your subscription, or questions/comments about the
      Energy
      > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
    • Robert Johnston
      I ve found some information that might change your thinking about the comments in the attached note from Ned Ford. If you do a search for compact fluorescents
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 15, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
        comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

        If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
        you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
        spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
        equivalent CF tube referred to). I found them to be reasonably priced
        at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com. You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
        candle bulb for $11.90 there. A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
        $28.40. A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95. A Philips 20W recessed
        lighting reflector bulb is $28.40. Another site I found them at was at
        www.dsenterprise.com. They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
        medium
        or candelabra bases.

        At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
        of
        early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
        a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
        further before buying that brand. I should think the bigger brands like
        Phillips,
        GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part. I
        suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
        the same Chinese factories.

        You can also find many online resources on LED's. They are quite expensive.
        They
        are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
        lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs). Springlamp sells
        them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
        too).
        You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
        www.jademountain.com,
        with LED's specifically at
        www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
        Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
        socket,
        to $108 for a 24 LED device.

        A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
        available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
        means), is: www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html. The National Research
        Council
        of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
        construction
        industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
        well.

        One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
        when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents. He
        uses
        them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

        Hope this helps,

        Robert Johnston




        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
        > To: hreg@egroups.com
        > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
        >
        >
        > HREG,
        >
        > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
        > neighborhoods after the
        > sun has set. The following message refers to two lighting products of
        > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
        > 45 Watts) and a
        > red ganged-LED light.
        >
        > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
        > appropriate.
        >
        > Jonathan
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
        > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
        > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
        > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
        >
        >
        > > This just in from the hardware store!
        > >
        > > I saw two new items of note. The first was a Lights of
        > America compact
        > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
        > At $17.99,
        > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
        > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
        > It uses 45
        > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
        > larger 25-watt
        > > bulbs. Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
        > I've eliminated
        > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
        > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
        > persuade people
        > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
        > >
        > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
        > eight, inside a
        > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
        > > replacing exit lamp bulbs. I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
        > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years! I think it was $19.95
        > or $24.95,
        > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
        > And I think
        > > the wattage would be under one watt. LED's seem to have a fairly
        > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
        > are considered
        > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent. I also have no
        > candelabra bases,
        > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
        > with white
        > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
        > candelabra lamps in
        > > the world efficient.
        > >
        > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
        > a while, as
        > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
        > but this is
        > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
        > as simple as
        > > replacing the bulb. The cost will frighten some people,
        > but at 7 cents
        > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
        > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
        > bulbs. I have no
        > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
        > buy a base
        > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
        > > way. The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
        > system told me
        > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
        > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
        > > compared to the generator backup system required for
        > incandescent bulbs.
        > >
        > > Happy shopping!
        > >
        > > - Ned
        > >
        > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
        > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
        > > For help in managing your subscription, or
        > questions/comments about the
        > Energy
        > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
        >
        >
        >
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        > -------------------------~-~>
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        > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > -------_->
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Steve Shepard
        I find this thread puzzling. Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets. That people still
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 16, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          I find this thread puzzling.
           
          Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets.
           
          That people still consider it exotic and rare is a strange curiosity.
           
          SBT Designs
          25840 IH-10 West #1
          Boerne, Texas 78006
          210-698-7109
          www.sbtdesigns.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:22 PM
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

          I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
          comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

          If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
          you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
          spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
          equivalent CF tube referred to).  I found them to be reasonably priced
          at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com.  You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
          candle bulb for $11.90 there.  A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
          $28.40.  A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95.  A Philips 20W recessed
          lighting reflector bulb is $28.40.  Another site I found them at was at
          www.dsenterprise.com.  They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
          medium
          or candelabra bases.

          At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
          of
          early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
          a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
          further before buying that brand.  I should think the bigger brands like
          Phillips,
          GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part.  I
          suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
          the same Chinese factories.

          You can also find many online resources on LED's.  They are quite expensive.
          They
          are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
          lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs).  Springlamp sells
          them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
          too).
          You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
          www.jademountain.com,
          with LED's specifically at
          www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
          Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
          socket,
          to $108 for a 24 LED device.

          A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
          available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
          means), is:  www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html.  The National Research
          Council
          of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
          construction
          industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
          well.

          One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
          when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents.  He
          uses
          them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

          Hope this helps,

          Robert Johnston




          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
          > To: hreg@egroups.com
          > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
          >
          >
          > HREG,
          >
          > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
          > neighborhoods after the
          > sun has set.  The following message refers to two lighting products of
          > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
          > 45 Watts) and a
          > red ganged-LED light.
          >
          > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
          > appropriate.
          >
          > Jonathan
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
          > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
          > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
          > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
          >
          >
          > > This just in from the hardware store!
          > >
          > > I saw two new items of note.  The first was a Lights of
          > America compact
          > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
          >  At $17.99,
          > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
          > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
          > It uses 45
          > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
          > larger 25-watt
          > > bulbs.  Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
          > I've eliminated
          > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
          > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
          > persuade people
          > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
          > >
          > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
          > eight, inside a
          > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
          > > replacing exit lamp bulbs.  I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
          > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years!  I think it was $19.95
          > or $24.95,
          > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
          > And I think
          > > the wattage would be under one watt.  LED's seem to have a fairly
          > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
          > are considered
          > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent.  I also have no
          > candelabra bases,
          > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
          > with white
          > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
          > candelabra lamps in
          > > the world efficient.
          > >
          > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
          > a while, as
          > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
          > but this is
          > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
          > as simple as
          > > replacing the bulb.  The cost will frighten some people,
          > but at 7 cents
          > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
          > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
          > bulbs.  I have no
          > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
          > buy a base
          > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
          > > way.  The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
          > system told me
          > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
          > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
          > > compared to the generator backup system required for
          > incandescent bulbs.
          > >
          > > Happy shopping!
          > >
          > > - Ned
          > >
          > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
          > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
          > > For help in managing your subscription, or
          > questions/comments about the
          > Energy
          > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
          > -------------------------~-~>
          > eGroups eLerts
          > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
          > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/58590/_/976809595/
          > --------------------------------------------------------------
          > -------_->
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


        • Robert Johnston
          It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF s for enclosed
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 17, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying
            to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF's for enclosed fixtures.  I had only just discovered that such
            CF's now exist.  They are not available in any of the local stores, nor do they even know about them.
            Lowes, for example, has many of the standard CF's, but no dimmable ones, nor candelabra ones, nor
            spotlights.  And most of what they have are not even recommended for use in enclosed fixtures.  So
            it is not surprising to me that neither myself nor many other people know that much about them.  For
            the same reason, it is not surprising that most homes in the area are lit by incandescents.  This is
            a real opportunity for us to learn more about these and share that knowledge with our friends and
            neighbors for the good of all.
             
            I see from your website that you guys do X-10 systems too.  Maybe you could comment on your
            experience with X-10 and CF's.  The reason I have been holding off on CF's in my house until just
            a couple months ago when I discovered the Springlamp dimmable CF's is that I didn't think that
            the conventional CF's would be compatible with my X-10 wall switches or Enerlogic X-10 control
            system.  Several years ago I replaced most switches with X-10 wall switches and the Enerlogic
            controller so that I could save energy by controlling the lights in the house, some with motion
            detectors, and others on computer controlled sequences (e.g., turn the kids' lights off periodically
            since they always forget).  Have you used any CF's besides the new dimmable ones on X-10
            switched circuits?  Is there a fire hazard in doing so?
             
            Somewhat off-topic, I'd also be curious to know if you know of X-10 switches that have longer
            lifetime than the Powerhouse X-10 switches I buy locally, yet without the high cost of the Leviton
            switches.  My X-10 switches only seem to last about 3 years before the switch fails in various
            ways.  I'm tempted to rip the system out, which would also let me get the standard CF's!
             
             
            Robert Johnston
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Steve Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
            Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:37 PM
            To: hreg@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

            I find this thread puzzling.
             
            Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets.
             
            That people still consider it exotic and rare is a strange curiosity.
             
            SBT Designs
            25840 IH-10 West #1
            Boerne, Texas 78006
            210-698-7109
            www.sbtdesigns.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:22 PM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

            I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
            comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

            If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
            you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
            spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
            equivalent CF tube referred to).  I found them to be reasonably priced
            at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com.  You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
            candle bulb for $11.90 there.  A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
            $28.40.  A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95.  A Philips 20W recessed
            lighting reflector bulb is $28.40.  Another site I found them at was at
            www.dsenterprise.com.  They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
            medium
            or candelabra bases.

            At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
            of
            early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
            a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
            further before buying that brand.  I should think the bigger brands like
            Phillips,
            GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part.  I
            suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
            the same Chinese factories.

            You can also find many online resources on LED's.  They are quite expensive.
            They
            are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
            lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs).  Springlamp sells
            them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
            too).
            You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
            www.jademountain.com,
            with LED's specifically at
            www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
            Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
            socket,
            to $108 for a 24 LED device.

            A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
            available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
            means), is:  www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html.  The National Research
            Council
            of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
            construction
            industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
            well.

            One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
            when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents.  He
            uses
            them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

            Hope this helps,

            Robert Johnston




            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
            > To: hreg@egroups.com
            > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
            >
            >
            > HREG,
            >
            > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
            > neighborhoods after the
            > sun has set.  The following message refers to two lighting products of
            > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
            > 45 Watts) and a
            > red ganged-LED light.
            >
            > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
            > appropriate.
            >
            > Jonathan
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
            > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
            > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
            > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
            >
            >
            > > This just in from the hardware store!
            > >
            > > I saw two new items of note.  The first was a Lights of
            > America compact
            > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
            >  At $17.99,
            > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
            > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
            > It uses 45
            > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
            > larger 25-watt
            > > bulbs.  Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
            > I've eliminated
            > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
            > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
            > persuade people
            > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
            > >
            > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
            > eight, inside a
            > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
            > > replacing exit lamp bulbs.  I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
            > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years!  I think it was $19.95
            > or $24.95,
            > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
            > And I think
            > > the wattage would be under one watt.  LED's seem to have a fairly
            > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
            > are considered
            > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent.  I also have no
            > candelabra bases,
            > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
            > with white
            > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
            > candelabra lamps in
            > > the world efficient.
            > >
            > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
            > a while, as
            > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
            > but this is
            > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
            > as simple as
            > > replacing the bulb.  The cost will frighten some people,
            > but at 7 cents
            > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
            > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
            > bulbs.  I have no
            > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
            > buy a base
            > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
            > > way.  The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
            > system told me
            > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
            > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
            > > compared to the generator backup system required for
            > incandescent bulbs.
            > >
            > > Happy shopping!
            > >
            > > - Ned
            > >
            > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
            > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
            > > For help in managing your subscription, or
            > questions/comments about the
            > Energy
            > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
            >
            >
            >
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          • James Ferrill
            Check out http://www.smarthome.com/index.html and look on the X10 tab. Other links: http://www.geocities.com/~powersphere/powersphere/moreinfo.html
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 17, 2000
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              Check out http://www.smarthome.com/index.html and look on the X10 tab.

              Other links:

              http://www.geocities.com/~powersphere/powersphere/moreinfo.html
              http://www.geocities.com/~powersphere/rcx-index/index.html
              http://www.homeautomation.com/

              James Ferrill

              At 10:03 AM 12/17/2000, you wrote:
              It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying
              to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF's for enclosed fixtures.  I had only just discovered that such
              CF's now exist.  They are not available in any of the local stores, nor do they even know about them.
              Lowes, for example, has many of the standard CF's, but no dimmable ones, nor candelabra ones, nor
              spotlights.  And most of what they have are not even recommended for use in enclosed fixtures.  So
              it is not surprising to me that neither myself nor many other people know that much about them.  For
              the same reason, it is not surprising that most homes in the area are lit by incandescents.  This is
              a real opportunity for us to learn more about these and share that knowledge with our friends and
              neighbors for the good of all.
               
              I see from your website that you guys do X-10 systems too.  Maybe you could comment on your
              experience with X-10 and CF's.  The reason I have been holding off on CF's in my house until just
              a couple months ago when I discovered the Springlamp dimmable CF's is that I didn't think that
              the conventional CF's would be compatible with my X-10 wall switches or Enerlogic X-10 control
              system.  Several years ago I replaced most switches with X-10 wall switches and the Enerlogic
              controller so that I could save energy by controlling the lights in the house, some with motion
              detectors, and others on computer controlled sequences (e.g., turn the kids' lights off periodically
              since they always forget).  Have you used any CF's besides the new dimmable ones on X-10
              switched circuits?  Is there a fire hazard in doing so?
               
              Somewhat off-topic, I'd also be curious to know if you know of X-10 switches that have longer
              lifetime than the Powerhouse X-10 switches I buy locally, yet without the high cost of the Leviton
              switches.  My X-10 switches only seem to last about 3 years before the switch fails in various
              ways.  I'm tempted to rip the system out, which would also let me get the standard CF's!
               

            • Andrew McCalla
              All, Thanks to Robert for the litany of resources regarding CF s and high efficiency lamps in general. Unfortunately, I think there is still much work to be
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 18, 2000
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                All,

                Thanks to Robert for the litany of resources regarding CF's and high
                efficiency lamps in general.

                Unfortunately, I think there is still much work to be done in educating
                both retailers and consumers alike as to the virtues and benefits of CF
                lighting products. Not only do some people consider CF's exotic, but many
                more people do not even consider them as an available option. I don't find
                this very curious for the simple reason of exposure, or lack thereof in
                this case. Even though the lamps are available in numerous retail
                outlets, those outlets, in my opinion, are not numerous enough. Therfore,
                I think that any and all exposure is a good thing.

                And now, for some good news:

                Sub CF's for $4.95 delivered. I haven't tried these out, but at that
                price, it should be worth it to try some.

                http://www.pnl.gov/cfl/

                Andrew




                Andrew H. McCalla
                Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
                Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
                P.O. Box 5810
                Austin, TX 78763
                Tel: 512-477-3050
                Fax: 512-477-3035
                www.meridiansolar.com
              • Steve Shepard
                Our experience with CFs and powerline carrier control is that most X-10 products cannot control CFs properly. As a practice we do offer superior quality
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 18, 2000
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                  Our experience with CFs and powerline carrier control is that most "X-10" products cannot control CFs properly.
                   
                  As a practice we do offer superior quality powerline carrier switch receivers that can operate and switch CFs, common fluorescents, pumps and in fact the current rating on our ACT switch receivers is designed to handle a wide variety of electrical loads.  These switch receivers are also available as a dimming switch receiver.  These products are UL approved, have been available for about twenty years and there are no safety issues associated with their use.
                   
                  They do require some skills, experience and expertise to apply and install successfully because most consumers are not aware of the functional issues associated with the application of powerline carrier technology.  As an experienced vendor we have seen most of these technical issues and we pretty much know the solution to them all.
                   
                  The relation that control systems (home automation) has to the renewable energy industry is that when applied properly this technology and these systems can and do make a significant contribution towards energy savings in the home or office.
                  We have married these two technologies in the past in a residential system that automatically disables home electrical systems at regular intervals (timed events) and when the electrical system is not required.
                   
                  We found there are additional challenges related to this marriage.  Unless the renewable energy system provides a fairly clean, true sine wave electrial environment it is almost not worth the effort. 
                   
                  I am familar with products you mention in your post.  Fortunately there are many more products available today that offer superior quality, performance and are easier to install, apply and maintain.  It is common knowledge in the industry that if you get six months or a year's service out of X-10 Powerhouse products you have pretty much got your money's worth.  The products we recommend and sell will pratically last the life of your home.  They do cost more and there is a reason.
                   
                  SBT Designs
                  25840 IH-10 West #1
                  Boerne, Texas 78006
                  210-698-7109
                  www.sbtdesigns.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 10:03 AM
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

                  It may seem a strange curiosity to you, but I started the thread a few weeks ago because I was trying
                  to find a cheaper source of dimmable CF's for enclosed fixtures.  I had only just discovered that such
                  CF's now exist.  They are not available in any of the local stores, nor do they even know about them.
                  Lowes, for example, has many of the standard CF's, but no dimmable ones, nor candelabra ones, nor
                  spotlights.  And most of what they have are not even recommended for use in enclosed fixtures.  So
                  it is not surprising to me that neither myself nor many other people know that much about them.  For
                  the same reason, it is not surprising that most homes in the area are lit by incandescents.  This is
                  a real opportunity for us to learn more about these and share that knowledge with our friends and
                  neighbors for the good of all.
                   
                  I see from your website that you guys do X-10 systems too.  Maybe you could comment on your
                  experience with X-10 and CF's.  The reason I have been holding off on CF's in my house until just
                  a couple months ago when I discovered the Springlamp dimmable CF's is that I didn't think that
                  the conventional CF's would be compatible with my X-10 wall switches or Enerlogic X-10 control
                  system.  Several years ago I replaced most switches with X-10 wall switches and the Enerlogic
                  controller so that I could save energy by controlling the lights in the house, some with motion
                  detectors, and others on computer controlled sequences (e.g., turn the kids' lights off periodically
                  since they always forget).  Have you used any CF's besides the new dimmable ones on X-10
                  switched circuits?  Is there a fire hazard in doing so?
                   
                  Somewhat off-topic, I'd also be curious to know if you know of X-10 switches that have longer
                  lifetime than the Powerhouse X-10 switches I buy locally, yet without the high cost of the Leviton
                  switches.  My X-10 switches only seem to last about 3 years before the switch fails in various
                  ways.  I'm tempted to rip the system out, which would also let me get the standard CF's!
                   
                   
                  Robert Johnston
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Steve Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:37 PM
                  To: hreg@egroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

                  I find this thread puzzling.
                   
                  Compact fluorescent lighting products are available in multiple shapes and sizes from numerous retail outlets.
                   
                  That people still consider it exotic and rare is a strange curiosity.
                   
                  SBT Designs
                  25840 IH-10 West #1
                  Boerne, Texas 78006
                  210-698-7109
                  www.sbtdesigns.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:22 PM
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!

                  I've found some information that might change your thinking about the
                  comments in the attached note from Ned Ford.

                  If you do a search for compact fluorescents on the web, you'll find that
                  you can now buy them in candelabra forms, as well as reflective
                  spotlights (which might be more efficient and directional than the 200W
                  equivalent CF tube referred to).  I found them to be reasonably priced
                  at a neat site called www.ENERGYguide.com.  You can get a Sunylite 9 watt
                  candle bulb for $11.90 there.  A Phillips 15 Watt reflector light bulb costs
                  $28.40.  A GE 15 Watt R-30 Reflector bulb is $14.95.  A Philips 20W recessed
                  lighting reflector bulb is $28.40.  Another site I found them at was at
                  www.dsenterprise.com.  They had both 3 and 7 watt candle bulbs in either
                  medium
                  or candelabra bases.

                  At www.misty.com/~don/cfbest.html the author describes personal experiences
                  of
                  early failures and other problems with Lights of America CF's, so though not
                  a statistically significant sampling, it might be worth investigating these
                  further before buying that brand.  I should think the bigger brands like
                  Phillips,
                  GE, etc., might prove more reliable, but that is conjecture on my part.  I
                  suspect that some of these are just OEM versions of products cranked out of
                  the same Chinese factories.

                  You can also find many online resources on LED's.  They are quite expensive.
                  They
                  are also directional, so not so well suited for general lighting (vs. task
                  lighting or background illumination as on the exit signs).  Springlamp sells
                  them (see their site at www.springlamp.com; they make nice dimmable CF's
                  too).
                  You can find LED's and many other interesting products at
                  www.jademountain.com,
                  with LED's specifically at
                  www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/led-solar.html.
                  Prices range from $40 for a 9 LED device that fits in a regular light
                  socket,
                  to $108 for a 24 LED device.

                  A good article on choosing CF's, particularly explaining the various colors
                  available (the "coolness" of different grades of fluorescents and what that
                  means), is:  www.nrc.ca/irc/practice/lig3_e.html.  The National Research
                  Council
                  of Canada does good work, and this one, while written for architects and
                  construction
                  industry professionals, is very readable and explains it to the layman as
                  well.

                  One of our HREG members (Dennis--drocketman@...) was very helpful to me
                  when I posted a question a few weeks ago about compact fluorescents.  He
                  uses
                  them extensively and has a lot of experience with them.

                  Hope this helps,

                  Robert Johnston




                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Jonathan Clemens [mailto:jclem412@...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:56 AM
                  > To: hreg@egroups.com
                  > Subject: [hreg] Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
                  >
                  >
                  > HREG,
                  >
                  > It's that time of year that we try to light up the
                  > neighborhoods after the
                  > sun has set.  The following message refers to two lighting products of
                  > interest - a 200W-equivalent Compact Fluorescent lamp (using
                  > 45 Watts) and a
                  > red ganged-LED light.
                  >
                  > For any of you thinking spot lights, the first item might be
                  > appropriate.
                  >
                  > Jonathan
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Ned Ford" <Ned.Ford@...>
                  > To: <CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM@...>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:54 PM
                  > Subject: Hot Holiday Items for efficiency!
                  >
                  >
                  > > This just in from the hardware store!
                  > >
                  > > I saw two new items of note.  The first was a Lights of
                  > America compact
                  > > fluorescent bulb that is the equivalent of a 200 watt bulb!
                  >  At $17.99,
                  > > it is a Deca-tube (ten tubes, according to the parlance lighting
                  > > manufacturers use, or five loop-tubes to my Midwest eyes.
                  > It uses 45
                  > > watts, and is somewhat heavier, but not longer than the
                  > larger 25-watt
                  > > bulbs.  Dimmable bulbs are becoming pretty common too.
                  > I've eliminated
                  > > all dimmers from my houses, but there are a lot of places where the
                  > > pushiest of us have just left alone because we couldn't
                  > persuade people
                  > > to forego their dimmers, that we can now get after.
                  > >
                  > > The other item is a really neat red LED gang of about
                  > eight, inside a
                  > > small (about four inches long) tube, with a candelabra base, for
                  > > replacing exit lamp bulbs.  I'm sorry I didn't get the price, or the
                  > > wattage, but it lasts for 25 years!  I think it was $19.95
                  > or $24.95,
                  > > which is a pretty good deal for the number of LED's in it.
                  > And I think
                  > > the wattage would be under one watt.  LED's seem to have a fairly
                  > > standard wattage of .1 watt, and gangs of 12 white LED's
                  > are considered
                  > > equivalent to 25 watts incandescent.  I also have no
                  > candelabra bases,
                  > > and no exit lights, and I would love to see a similar unit
                  > with white
                  > > LED's, to see if we have hope for making all those
                  > candelabra lamps in
                  > > the world efficient.
                  > >
                  > > Exit lamp replacement units with LED's have been around for
                  > a while, as
                  > > have compact fluorescent replacement kits for exit lamps,
                  > but this is
                  > > the first time I've seen anything efficient that was just
                  > as simple as
                  > > replacing the bulb.  The cost will frighten some people,
                  > but at 7 cents
                  > > per KWH, the bulb will save over $14/year, and more if it is used in
                  > > air-conditioned space, or paid staff are changing the
                  > bulbs.  I have no
                  > > idea how many exit lamps have candelabra bases, but you can
                  > buy a base
                  > > converter from standard to candelabra, which you can't do the other
                  > > way.  The energy manager for the Cincinnati Public School
                  > system told me
                  > > that his interest in LED exit lamps was in part that battery backup
                  > > systems could be used, which would save an enormous amount of money
                  > > compared to the generator backup system required for
                  > incandescent bulbs.
                  > >
                  > > Happy shopping!
                  > >
                  > > - Ned
                  > >
                  > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  > > To get off the CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM list, send any message to:
                  > > CONS-SPST-ENERGY-FORUM-signoff-request@...
                  > > For help in managing your subscription, or
                  > questions/comments about the
                  > Energy
                  > > Forum, contact Ned.Ford@...
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >




                • Robert Johnston
                  Outstanding link! Thanks, Andrew!
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 3, 2001
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                    Outstanding link! Thanks, Andrew!
                    > And now, for some good news:
                    >
                    > Sub CF's for $4.95 delivered. I haven't tried these out, but at that
                    > price, it should be worth it to try some.
                    >
                    > http://www.pnl.gov/cfl/
                    >
                    > Andrew
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Ryan McMullan
                    Has anyone tried these yet? I m curious what their light quality is like. Ryan
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 4, 2001
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                      Has anyone tried these yet? I'm curious what their light quality
                      is like.

                      Ryan

                      At 11:37 PM 1/3/01 -0600, you wrote:
                      >Outstanding link! Thanks, Andrew!
                      > > And now, for some good news:
                      > >
                      > > Sub CF's for $4.95 delivered. I haven't tried these out, but at that
                      > > price, it should be worth it to try some.
                      > >
                      > > http://www.pnl.gov/cfl/
                      > >
                      > > Andrew
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
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