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Re: [hreg] Talk about electric vehicles and hybrids

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  • Henry H Haynes
    I think the source for the hydrogen is still the hangup. Henry onekindrtx wrote: I have heard a lot of
    Message 1 of 40 , Aug 4, 2006
      I think the source for the hydrogen is still the hangup. 


      onekindrtx <onekindr@...> wrote:
      I have heard a lot of talk lately about the Ev and hybriids, which
      are new investment for folks and not going to curb the 300 million
      vehicles on the road today appetite for oil and nice exhaust
      emmissions. Has anybody been working on or studying hydrogen
      technologies as a fuel source?

      Edward Kramer

    • Henry H Haynes
      Energy is not created . Anyone who claims more output than input is dealing in magic. I am not aware of any systems that are 100% efficient, therefore anyone
      Message 40 of 40 , Aug 8, 2006
        Energy is not "created".  Anyone who claims more output than input is dealing in magic. I am not aware of any systems that are 100% efficient, therefore anyone even claiming output equal to input should be watched closely.  There's no doubt that a certain amount of H will be produced with the input of a certain amount of electrical energy.  That's a known fact.  I could even go to one of my books & tell you how much to expect (minus loss to inefficiency).  But, it's also a fact that the energy derived from recombining the H with oxygen (fuel cell or combustion) will be a little less than the energy initially required to separate it from oxygen.

        Ed, I would like to add my name to the list of those recommending that you not send this "inventor" any big money.  If he is absolutely sure of his development, maybe he would allow you test it with your guarantee to pay if your satisfied.  I would certainly not give him your credit card number or bank account information.

        I would highly recommend that you do a little research on this "inventor".  There should be at least a single journal article on this process.  You may want to check out where he lives & does his research.  He should be willing to share this with you & allow you to confirm it.  If he is confident of his scientific  position, he shouldn't be afraid to allow you to confirm a couple of points.  If he sounds defensive, run.  You may not want a ground floor position in this new technology.


        Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote:
        7:36am, Edward Kramer wrote:

        > Paul,
        > I am not the inventor! The inventor of said technology has made the
        > claim.

        A claim that you have repeated.

        I am so interested in trying to pursue clean technologies, that I
        > am willing to purchase, evaluate and make a case scenerio to back up his
        > claims. These products are not new, This particular unit I have purchased
        > has been in the worksfor 16 years. There are many on the market, some work
        > some don't. If it doesn't work, I will let you know and refund it to the
        > mfg. Its a very low risk experiment as far as I am concerned.

        Two problems here: first, I (and most of the people on this forum) have
        very good reason to doubt that this device will work. Not only have we said
        so, but I believe we've given some very convincing arguments. You have
        defended this device (although you don't have it yet, and haven't seen it
        work in person), and seem unwilling to consider any skepticism about the
        claims of the inventor. We *are* interested in this device--but when it gets
        tested by one of our own, we want that person to be fair and impartial, not
        a "true believer."
        Second, this truely sounds like the kind of situation in which you will find
        that the device does not work, and that you will not be able to get your
        money back. If this were a $20 device, well that's not so bad. But I belive
        all of us are cringeing at the thought of you potentially wasting $750. And
        before you say, "Of course I'll get my money back if it doesn't work,"
        consider how easy it will be for the "inventor" to say, "well, did you do X?
        Did you do it to our *exact* specifications? What about Y? And Z? And did
        you make sure alpha and gamma and delta were all in balance? Well, go back
        and try again." They'll wear you out with stupid little tweaks and mods they
        want you to do until you eventually give up.

        > There is some wonderful cold fusion technology coming-if you want to look
        > at www.blacklight. com, you might see some emerging hydrogen technologies.
        > All truth passes three stages- i is ridiculed, violently opposed and then
        > accepted as self evident.

        Trust me, this isn't ridicule. This is simply a group of people trying to
        save one member from what sounds, for all the world, like snake oil.

        Do me a favor, Edward: ask yourself (or the inventor!) how you this device
        is going to recover more energy than it takes in. And then look up the
        definitions for "perpetual motion" and "snake oil."


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